Does a college degree still pay off financially?

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[quote name='Soodmeg']
I guess I think your bold statement of, "In short, having a degree can only help you on the job market, not having one can only hurt you" as a false statement. As there is no way to factually prove that in this economy. A[/QUOTE]

The fact that the unemployment rate for college grads is half that for people with only a diploma is proof of my statement.

Doesn't mean it pays off for everyone, but your job prospects are better with one than without any post high school education. Though many would be better of learning a trade in vocational school or doing a two year degree or some type of certification than going to a 4 year school. The points just that most decent jobs won't hire people wit only diplomas anymore.

And there's never a sure thing field to pick, but one can avoid majors with dismal job prospects like philosophy or literature etc at least. And no one should take out huge debt for undergrad. Go to a state school with cheaper in state tuition. Study hard in high school and college to get scholarships and grants. Live with a bunch of roommates to forget cheap rent. Work part time to help minimize the amount of loans you need to take out and so on.
 
It doesnt if you want to make it as simplistic as possible, in a vacuum a degree is the bees knees. (By the way I have one and I am gainfully self employed so I am not hurting and am very happy with my career. I am only trying to take perspective of when I was 18 right out of high school)


The problem becomes the hundreds or so factors that go into having a degree. You have a stigma against, votech degrees, you have a stigma against online degrees, you have a stigma against most non traditional degree formats. That means you are basically forcing kids into large debts on the promise that it will pay off at a traditional school. This promise has been broken numerous times over for a variety of reasons and when called on it most people seem to shrug and point the blame squarely on the feet of a grad.

The schools themselves have been proven to lie about grad placement, grad salaries, job securities all through the their chosen program and when they get out they either cant find a job or have to take a job that is woefully under what was promised to them for years.

I am not against going to college and degrees, I am very much against bold statements that continue the fallacy to just do it because it magically better than not doing it. It makes it so that you can forever take advantage of young minds and their money. I will forever disagree until school are made to report realistic numbers with realistic pay grades. This is a problem with every field, there was a report the other day that had a Law School under fire because a vast majority of their grads couldnt find a job in their field yet the school kept its 98% placement rate.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']It doesnt if you want to make it as simplistic as possible, in a vacuum a degree is the bees knees. (By the way I have one and I am gainfully self employed so I am not hurting and am very happy with my career. I am only trying to take perspective of when I was 18 right out of high school)


The problem becomes the hundreds or so factors that go into having a degree. You have a stigma against, votech degrees, you have a stigma against online degrees, you have a stigma against most non traditional degree formats. That means you are basically forcing kids into large debts on the promise that it will pay off at a traditional school. This promise has been broken numerous times over for a variety of reasons and when called on it most people seem to shrug and point the blame squarely on the feet of a grad.

The schools themselves have been proven to lie about grad placement, grad salaries, job securities all through the their chosen program and when they get out they either cant find a job or have to take a job that is woefully under what was promised to them for years.

I am not against going to college and degrees, I am very much against bold statements that continue the fallacy to just do it because it magically better than not doing it. It makes it so that you can forever take advantage of young minds and their money. I will forever disagree until school are made to report realistic numbers with realistic pay grades. This is a problem with every field, there was a report the other day that had a Law School under fire because a vast majority of their grads couldnt find a job in their field yet the school kept its 98% placement rate.[/QUOTE]
I understand what you're saying, but you're not looking at it from the right perspective. Instead of focusing on individual outcomes, look at it by questioning why degrees are more necessary and keep asking why to every answer you come up with. You might be surprised at where you end up.
 
I do agree about the problem of having a stigma against votech degrees, community college degrees etc. That needs to change.

I disagree about the debt issue. A lot of that is people just not making smart decisions about where to go to school (cheap instate schools if you don't have money or a scholarship elsewhere), poor work ethics (not willing to work while in school--not studying hard enough to earn scholarships) and living too large (not shacking up with a bunch of roommates in a cheap house off campus) etc.

And as we argued earlier in the thread, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the later point as I hate that universities have became big business just designed to make money by giving people pieces of paper that's supposed to get them the job. Rather than being beacons of intellectualism where faculty and students are working together on the mission of knowlege creation.

I'm a bit fed up with the enterprise, and a bit regretful of turning down a nice offer from a research firm a couple years ago. If a similar one comes around again, I'll probably take it as I'm pretty sick of dealing with students who have no interest in learning and just feel entitled to get a piece of paper they think they need to get a job.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']The fact that the unemployment rate for college grads is half that for people with only a diploma is proof of my statement.

Doesn't mean it pays off for everyone, but your job prospects are better with one than without any post high school education. Though many would be better of learning a trade in vocational school or doing a two year degree or some type of certification than going to a 4 year school. The points just that most decent jobs won't hire people wit only diplomas anymore.

And there's never a sure thing field to pick, but one can avoid majors with dismal job prospects like philosophy or literature etc at least. And no one should take out huge debt for undergrad. Go to a state school with cheaper in state tuition. Study hard in high school and college to get scholarships and grants. Live with a bunch of roommates to forget cheap rent. Work part time to help minimize the amount of loans you need to take out and so on.[/QUOTE]

I know this, what I am saying is that I refuse to count a Lawyer who spent 70k on their degree but can only make 40k because they cant find a job as employed. I think that is a big trick that colleges do to keep high placement numbers. I am finding that a lot of people either are vastly overqualified for the position they are in or making far less than what is promised when they are cashing your checks.

Again, I know a lot of Engineers working at gas stations...I dont consider them employed because clearly its not what they went to school for, not even close. Maybe if it was a equal position in a different field but not if its just employed. No one goes to college to just be employed.


I just dont like the, "well its your bad decisions stupid college kid" when a large part of it comes from constant misinformation and stigma from the college level.

Basically this, you tell a kid they will be nothing if they dont go to college. You then make sure you stigmatize non traditional higher education, you promise that field XXXX will yield XXX amount of dollars in order to pay back the money you spend to get the degree, you cash all of their checks with that same promise, then when it all falls through you shrug and say its all your fault not ours nothing is guaranteed in life....even though we just spent 4 years basically saying that.

I have nothing against college degree....I have everything against manipulating information to order to get them in the door and then dropping them after you cash their check.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I do agree about the problem of having a stigma against votech degrees, community college degrees etc. That needs to change.

I disagree about the debt issue. A lot of that is people just not making smart decisions about where to go to school (cheap instate schools if you don't have money or a scholarship elsewhere), poor work ethics (not willing to work while in school--not studying hard enough to earn scholarships) and living too large (not shacking up with a bunch of roommates in a cheap house off campus) etc.

And as we argued earlier in the thread, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the later point as I hate that universities have became big business just designed to make money by giving people pieces of paper that's supposed to get them the job. Rather than being beacons of intellectualism where faculty and students are working together on the mission of knowlege creation.

I'm a bit fed up with the enterprise, and a bit regretful of turning down a nice offer from a research firm a couple years ago. If a similar one comes around again, I'll probably take it as I'm pretty sick of dealing with students who have no interest in learning and just feel entitled to get a piece of paper they think they need to get a job.[/QUOTE]



I can fully agree with this. Like I said, I like college for a verity of reasons. I agree fully with the notion that they have become factory for jobs, stop trying to convince people that college = job and go back to college = experience, opportunity, growth and understanding.

I went to both college and a broadcasting trade school. I used college for high end networking, growth of ideas and techniques, understanding of theory and development....(parties and girls!!!!!) and I used my trade school for real life training. It seem liked a great option which worked out for me although I still have a decent amount of debt that I regret.
 
Edit: This was in response to your earlier post that vanished.


I'll grant that colleges could do more to educate students on such things.

But I'm also a big personal responsibility guy. It's up to students (and their parents) to make smart decisions on where they can afford to go to school, how they can do it while minimizing loans taken out etc.

But most are must morons with the "c's get degrees" attitudes who just want to party for 4 or 5 years and do the bare minimum to get by. So they're going to take a lot of loans as they're not working, aren't getting the grades to get scholarships etc.

Just flabbergasting to me that so many have that kind of attitude, vs. coming in and giving their all when they're spending so much time and money on it. Just a weird society we live in today.
 
I deleted because it was redundant and didnt really add anything.

I will say this from personally experience. I only gained my "personal responsibility," while in college. Coming from an extremely poor background being the first in my family to go to school, they just smashed me in the face with the idea without any advice at all. Neither did my teachers and concealers, if you are from a certain city they just consider it a win if you dont become another drug dealer..so even they were just like..."whatever it takes...go go go." (that is an exact quote from my teacher)

I understand what you are saying but 18 year old kids are not just going to magically know that in a country where education is clearly on the back burner.
 
Fair points, and the college could do a lot more through freshman orientation etc. to educate students about these kind of things.

And some do have special required programs from kids coming from poverty etc.

But it's definitely an area where more could be done. Pretty much every university has these resources available in the financial aid office etc., but the honus is on student's to seek it out. That could be changed so students were directly exposed to these things the summer before they start their first semester, and during their freshman year, so they have all the info they need to minimize debt, make wise decisions about the best major for them etc.
 
Subscribing to this thread ... I'm currently 2 years into my MHA (Masters of Healthcare Administration) and I'm curious to see the arguments. I've seen great points on each side. Some scare me ... makes me wonder if 6 years of this crap will be worth it lol.
 
[quote name='strikeratt']Subscribing to this thread ... I'm currently 2 years into my MHA (Masters of Healthcare Administration) and I'm curious to see the arguments. I've seen great points on each side. Some scare me ... makes me wonder if 6 years of this crap will be worth it lol.[/QUOTE]

I hope you don't mind my pesky/off topic question, but I'm currently an undergrad (poly sci/urban planning) and was looking at general masters programs, and someone recommended me to look into your major. I was if you could tell me how science-based the MHA is (I'm assuming not so much since its admin) and how the career prospects. If you don't want to post, I would apprentice a PM. Thanks!
 
I'll post and PM just incase you don't come back. Short and simple, there is some sciences, nothing insane though. Mostly business classes, a chunk of people also get their MBA for a wider career path because they're closely related. Career prospects are more than average with about a projected 16% growth rate for the next 6 years
 
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