Don't stop... believin'... Hold on to that feeling...

[quote name='speedracer']So when someone chooses not to pay for their own health care and then breaks their face and goes to the hospital, the hospital cannot choose whether or not to fix them. They're required by law and by oath.

It seems to me arguing against mandatory health care is arguing for the status quo, which is forcing doctors and hospitals to eat the costs. Is that fair?[/QUOTE]

It's called an EMERGENCY FUND. If something happens to me, I have an emergency fund to take care of it. If it is really drastic, I will pay what I can, and work out a payment plan with the hospital, which they gladly do.

[quote name='depascal22']Ever gotten into an accident with someone that didn't have insurance? That's why you don't get to choose whether you get health insurance. Stop being a dick and raising costs for the rest of us. Pay your share and we'll all cover each other. It's much better than the "Go fuck yourself plan" the Right has on the table.[/QUOTE]
Same words, different coverage. If we get into a car accident, my fault, my auto insurance covers your expenses too. So auto insurance covers multiple parties.
My health insurance only covers myself, and my family if I have such a plan. So they aren't really the same.
Also, I like how you assume that since I do not currently have health insurance coverage, I'm a drain on society and raising your costs.
 
[quote name='myl0r']It's called an EMERGENCY FUND. If something happens to me, I have an emergency fund to take care of it. If it is really drastic, I will pay what I can, and work out a payment plan with the hospital, which they gladly do.[/QUOTE]

The average cost of hip fracture care is $26,912 per patient, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Also, 220,000 total hip replacement surgeries were performed in the United States in 2003.

Emergency fund? I don't have a tenth of that in my emergency fund and I have the exact amount that's recommended by every major financial advisor in America. One month's expenses doesn't cover 27K.

Let's say I can get the hospital, surgeons, other doctors, and radiologists to cut the cost in half. That's still over 13K out of pocket. That's the cost of a decent used car. You'll end up paying $250 a month for the next five years.

You could always say that you'd work extra hours for the next five years to pay it off until you realize you BROKE YOUR fuckING HIP! Wait! The government helps people in situations like this but wouldn't that go against all of your dear principles that you hold so close? Will you just take personal responsibility and go bankrupt like the rest of your middle class brethren?
 
[quote name='depascal22']The average cost of hip fracture care is $26,912 per patient, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Also, 220,000 total hip replacement surgeries were performed in the United States in 2003.

Emergency fund? I don't have a tenth of that in my emergency fund and I have the exact amount that's recommended by every major financial advisor in America. One month's expenses doesn't cover 27K.

Let's say I can get the hospital, surgeons, other doctors, and radiologists to cut the cost in half. That's still over 13K out of pocket. That's the cost of a decent used car. That's around $250 a month for the next five years. You could always say that you'd work extra hours for the next five years to pay it off until you realize you BROKE YOUR fuckING HIP! You could always apply for help from the guv'mint but wouldn't that go against all of your dear principles that you hold so close?[/QUOTE]
First off, I don't know why you assume I'm anti-government, or that my "dear principles" would suffer if I needed government assistance. I have no problem with seeking help when I need it. I'm not above that.
While I do not have hip problems, nor do I foresee myself needing hip replacement in the near future, I will address the idea of an extreme cost problem.
$27k. That's a lot. You are right, I do not have that in an emergency fund. Buy I do have enough to make a dent in a sizeable medical bill. From there, I would work out payments with the hospital. If I am unable to work, I do have a wife who can work.
Basically, I've got my situation covered. I can take care of myself. But if absolute worst comes to absolute worst, I feel like that is when the Goverment can step in and help people in need out. I have no problem with government programs that help those in need out.

You could always say that you'd work extra hours for the next five years to pay it off until you realize you BROKE YOUR fuckING HIP! Wait! The government helps people in situations like this but wouldn't that go against all of your dear principles that you hold so close? Will you just take personal responsibility and go bankrupt like the rest of your middle class brethren?
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Yes, I said that from the start, I will take personal responsibility for myself. Although something like that would not force me into filing bankruptcy.
 
[quote name='Msut77']So do you actually refer to your wife as Plan B or what?[/QUOTE]
This makes 2 posts in a row by you that I do not even feel deserve a response.
 
As opposed to what? Every post by you?

I kind of gave up on you after the "WE THE PEOPLE" nonsense but my posts are still serious if a bit tongue tongue in cheek.
 
[quote name='myl0r']Basically, I've got my situation covered. I can take care of myself. But if absolute worst comes to absolute worst, I feel like that is when the Goverment can step in and help people in need out. I have no problem with government programs that help those in need out.[/QUOTE]

So the government is good for insurance, but not for insurance?
 
[quote name='Msut77']As opposed to what? Every post by you?

I kind of gave up on you after the "WE THE PEOPLE" nonsense but my posts are still serious if a bit tongue tongue in cheek.[/QUOTE]
Well, they are elected officials whose job is to represent us.
And if you want your posts, taken seriously, then here we go.

[quote name='Msut77']Mylor, a jar of pennies isn't "taking care of it".[/QUOTE]
Really? You can pretend to know my financial situation, but I don't see how this should be taken as a serious post, because you do not know what kind of emergency fund I have, nor do you know how much money I make a year or anything regarding my finances. So I will take this as the baseless accusation it is, and disregard it.

[quote name='Msut77']So do you actually refer to your wife as Plan B or what?[/QUOTE]
Now you are simply misconstruing my words to make it look like I'm some crazy. Right now, my wife does not work. We just moved so I can start a new job, and she is now 9 months pregnant(at that point 6 months) and it would have been tough to find a job. She's going to seek employment when she's ready after the child, but it's really no rush since we are doing just fine. However, I know that if something were to happen to me, she is fully capable of supporting our family.
So is it Plan B? Yes, we have a backup plan.
Do I look down upon her in a derogatory manner and think she's just some plan B? Of course not.

[quote name='SpazX']So the government is good for insurance, but not for insurance?[/QUOTE]
I think the only thing I've openly opposed here is the Government forcing me to buy insurance. That's not freedom. I never said the Government insurance would be a bad plan. I simply said that Goverment welfare systems are good for people who are in serious troubled times, and need a hand up. And I also said if I ever needed such a hand up, I would not be opposed to seeking it from the government. The way I see it, I put in tax dollars towards such programs now, and if they can be there to help myself or whoever out in a tough time, then great.
 
[quote name='myl0r']Well, they are elected officials whose job is to represent us.[/quote]

Define "us".

You can pretend to know my financial situation, but I don't see how this should be taken as a serious post, because you do not know what kind of emergency fund I have, nor do you know how much money I make a year or anything regarding my finances.
Click to expand...

You aren't a millionaire, a serious illness or accident can run medical costs easily into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

You would have to be a multi-millionaire and/or have a very large income coming in to have that in the coffee can.

I apologize if I hit a nerve and came too close to comfort.

Now you are simply misconstruing my words to make it look like I'm some crazy. Right now, my wife does not work. We just moved so I can start a new job, and she is now 9 months pregnant(at that point 6 months) and it would have been tough to find a job. She's going to seek employment when she's ready after the child, but it's really no rush since we are doing just fine. However, I know that if something were to happen to me, she is fully capable of supporting our family.
Click to expand...

I am not trying very hard...

Does your wife make more or less near what you do? Do you honestly think she can just go out and find a decent job in this economy?

I think the only thing I've openly opposed here is the Government forcing me to buy insurance. That's not freedom.
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See the above, if a roll of the dice like the one you are talking about is what you call freedom we don't have the same definition.

never said the Government insurance would be a bad plan. I simply said that Goverment welfare systems are good for people who are in serious troubled times, and need a hand up. And I also said if I ever needed such a hand up, I would not be opposed to seeking it from the government. The way I see it, I put in tax dollars towards such programs now, and if they can be there to help myself or whoever out in a tough time, then great.
Click to expand...

Does anyone else find this incoherent?
 
[quote name='Msut77']Define "us".[/QUOTE]
Everyone? Elected officials are put in office to represent our voice and our opinions, not do whatever they want.

You aren't a millionaire, a serious illness or accident can run medical costs easily into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

You would have to be a multi-millionaire and/or have a very large income coming in to have that in the coffee can.

I apologize if I hit a nerve and came too close to comfort.
Click to expand...
You didn't hit a nerve, you were just being facetious when you posted that, but you did so with no basis for knowing what kind of Emergency fund I have in place, so it was a pointless attack. For all you know, I COULD be a millionaire(sorry, I'm not, so you are right on that).



Does your wife make more or less near what you do? Do you honestly think she can just go out and find a decent job in this economy?
Click to expand...
Yes, this economy is rough. So if she can find a job or not is a big question. But I know my wife would be able to sustain our family if she needed to.

See the above, if a roll of the dice like the one you are talking about is what you call freedom we don't have the same definition.
Click to expand...
What is your definition of Freedom?
 
[quote name='myl0r']Everyone? Elected officials are put in office to represent our voice and our opinions, not do whatever they want.[/quote]

The current healthcare bill sucks rotten otter balls but that is in large part due to our fucked up system.

It's the best we are gonna get until someone neuters or abolishes the house of lords but at the very least there is room for improvement.

What I was getting at is that there is a comparatively tiny yet very vocal amount of people in this country who live to frustrate every attempt at progress or just want to outright bring this country back to anywhere from the gilded age to the middle ages.

Does "we the people" mean them or the majority of the country who want reform?

but you did so with no basis for knowing what kind of Emergency fund I have in place, so it was a pointless attack.
Click to expand...

Like I said before if you aren't a millionaire anything you got might as well be a jar of change.

It isn't really an attack and there is obviously a point that you even seem to have grasped.

But I know my wife would be able to sustain our family if she needed to.
Click to expand...

Like I said before that is a pretty big roll of the dice, especially since you admitted right before that to not "knowing" she can go right out and get a decent job.

What is your definition of Freedom?
Click to expand...

Hard to fit into a post but the freedom to be denied healthcare isn't a part of my definition.
 
[quote name='Msut77']The current healthcare bill sucks rotten otter balls but that is in large part due to our fucked up system.

Hard to fit into a post but the freedom to be denied healthcare isn't a part of my definition.[/QUOTE]
I'll leave it at this
1-we can agree the system is a big problem. I don't think a government takeover is the solution, but it's gonna happen, so I'm trying to make the most of it. I can live with that, and we'll see where it leads us 10 years from now.
2-I'm not talking about freedom of denying healthcare. I don't like that my freedom to choose healthcare is taken away.

Let's be honest. The problems America faces goes way beyond just this bill or proposal. Honestly, plenty of reform could be done, but it would involve the Congressmen to remove the balls of lobbyists from their mouths and start doing what is right for this country. I think we can all agree that won't happen anytime soon.
 
[quote name='myl0r']I'm not talking about freedom of denying healthcare.[/quote]

In the context you have chosen of the "government taking over healthcare", yes you are.

Because that is what it means here.

I don't like that my freedom to choose healthcare is taken away.
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In the context of your stated position on taking advantage of healthcare (even if you can't afford it) means you don't like the freedom of not having to pay taken away.
 
[quote name='myl0r']If something happens to me, I have an emergency fund to take care of it. If it is really drastic, I will pay what I can, and work out a payment plan with the hospital, which they gladly do,[/QUOTE]
That's very generous of you to give the hospital the freedom to involuntarily extend you a line of credit that could run into the tens or hundreds of thousands.
 
Oh, so Obama is the devil because he "lied" about putting stuff on a channel whose airing schedule he has no authority over?
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']Oh, so Obama is the devil because he "lied" about putting stuff on a channel whose airing schedule he has no authority over?[/QUOTE]
Somehow I think C-Span wouldn't have a problem creating a special schedule for Mr. Obama.

And let's be real. Pelosi got re-elected by spewing the transparency of government thingy 4 years ago. Does no one remember her media blitz after becoming SOTH ? Democrats base half their campaigns on government transparency and "fighting for you!" and the other half bashing Republicans. Everyone knows they have no real morals except obtaining power to pay back their campaign contributors.

They have good intentions, so it's okay if they lie just to get elected.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Sure, dude didn't follow through on a campaign promise. But on the scale of all things great and small, I just don't see how this rates. How many people considered whether CSPAN would carry the health care debate "very important" or "important" when deciding to vote?

I'd say his utter bullshit on Afghanistan/Iraq/Geithner carries far more weight... like WHOA far more weight.[/QUOTE]

Lies are lies. I don't care if it was "just a campaign promise." It was promised. It was a lie. Ergo, it is wrong, no matter how you couch it. It rates as a direct lie by the president, which should get everyone's attention even if it was a lie about something small, a view I don't agree with (after all, we are talking about a massively important piece of legislation that affects every American).
 
Hopefully this isn't the first of many. He made a TON of promises as Candidate Obama, and he's been President Obama for almost a year. He definitely has time to fulfill some promises but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Did I vote for Tommy Carcetti?
 
Let's start being realistic here. Campaign promises have one purpose: garner votes from the electorate. They have no basis in reality and the candidates know this from the onset.

We know this war is illegitimate, we've told the public this at every opportunity, so let's promise to bring our troops home immediately. This is a logistical and political impossibility, but the people want to hear it.

Let's close that gulag Guantanamo. We know this is a logistical and legal impossibility, but it's what the people want to hear.

Let's promise to "Fight for YOU!" whatever that means. We'll even promise transparency even though we know it's an impossibility that senators and congresspeople will allow the public to directly see backdoor deals and payoffs that happen behind closed doors. But, the people want to hear it.

Let's be nicer to the world and stop pretending we're at war with terrorists. Let's show them we can be nice by not even calling them terrorists anymore. This is a political and realistic impossibility because we know they aren't going to fade away just because Bush isn't president anymore. But the people want to hear it so lets promise them a return to normality, whatever that means.

One of our constituencies wants equal rights to marry each other. We don't have time to deal with these freaks, so lets promise them whatever they want and when we're in power we can talk about progress and obstructive congresspeople. We'll throw them a bone or two so we can get back to doing real work. In 4 years we can tell them how much progress we've made and if they'll just give us another 4 years maybe we can really get something done.

See, Democrats are either idealists with grandiose dreams and visions, or they are power hungry, lying hyenas who would sell their mother to gain power over the largest and strongest nation on earth. Which one is more probable?
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']Oh piss off. This whole thread is a crock of shit.[/QUOTE]

This is a Bob thread after all.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']power hungry, lying hyenas who would sell their mother to gain power[/QUOTE]

You are far too charitable to politicians here.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']We know this war is illegitimate, we've told the public this at every opportunity, so let's promise to bring our troops home immediately. This is a logistical and political impossibility, but the people want to hear it.[/QUOTE]

If you're for Constitutional government, the wars actually are illegitimate. Not that most democrats are necessarily opposed to them, let alone because of that reason, but that's another issue.

Let's close that gulag Guantanamo. We know this is a logistical and legal impossibility, but it's what the people want to hear.
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Guantanamo, by its mere existence, is a legal impossibility. It should never have been opened; it should be closed immediately.

Let's be nicer to the world and stop pretending we're at war with terrorists ... This is a political and realistic impossibility because we know they aren't going to fade away just because Bush isn't president anymore. But the people want to hear it so lets promise them a return to normality, whatever that means.
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Actually, being nicer to the world would be a great first step in stemming the tide of rising radicalization of Mulism citizens. Regularly bombing countries and killing civilians, backing brutal and military dictators in the middle east, overthrowing elected governments, and occupying foreign countries are all factors in the motivation for ordinary people to radicalize. Oh, and we also helped radicalize some of the Muslim world in the 80s, when we joined forces with Bin Laden, setting up schools and training facilities through our CIA to fight Russia in Afghanistan. But don't take my word for it; take it from Bin Laden tracking unit Chief at the CIA, noted hawk Michael Scheuer. Or Chalmers Johnson. Not that democrats are doing anything about this, but it's pointless for a republican to harp on this.

... Let's show them we can be nice by not even calling them terrorists anymore ...
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He's said terror about 50 times in the last month or two, dude. Furthermore, he's continuing the Bush doctrine of foreign policy. What more do you want him to do? Drop a nuke on someone?
 
HAHAHA...

[quote name='crunchb3rry']Oh, so Obama is the devil because he "lied" about putting stuff on a channel whose airing schedule he has no authority over?[/QUOTE]
Lose...

[quote name='elprincipe']You should really get informed about an issue before commenting. Here you go:

http://www.c-span.org/pdf/C-SPAN Health Care Letter.pdf[/QUOTE]

Win...

[quote name='crunchb3rry']Oh piss off. This whole thread is a crock of shit.[/QUOTE]

Fail.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']He's said terror about 50 times in the last month or two, dude. Furthermore, he's continuing the Bush doctrine of foreign policy. What more do you want him to do? Drop a nuke on someone?[/QUOTE]

He won't respond to this. He made a claim about something that's demonstrably untrue. So bmulligan is either (1) an intentional liar or (2) woefully uninformed. Those are the only options one has when such an easily defeated argument is posted.

But, thanks to the asyncronous communication of the internet, he can will it out of existence. There's more than enough counterevidence to the "Obama doesn't use the word 'terror'" claim that people who advocate it might as well argue something else already stupid and disproven, like "Obama is not an American citizen."

...shit.

Anyway, he won't respond, because it's far easier to run away from an internet discussion and maintain the phony integrity of one's belief system than it is to engage in repairing cognitive dissonance when confronted with it.

The internet: concession doesn't happen here, but silence does.
 
And not only that, but directly took responsibility for the CSPAN thing. Obama today:
Look, the truth of the matter is that if you look at the health care process -- just over the course of the year -- overwhelmingly the majority of it actually was on C-SPAN, because it was taking place in congressional hearings in which guys were participating.

I mean, the -- how many committees were there that helped to shape this bill? Countless hearings took place.

Now, I kicked it off, by the way, with a meeting with many of you, including your key leadership.

What is true, there's no doubt about it, is that once it got through the committee process and there were now a series of meetings taking place all over the Capitol trying to figure out how to get the thing together, that was a messy process. And I take responsibility for not having structured it in a way where it was all taking place in one place that could be filmed.

How to do that logistically would not have been as easy as -- as it sounds because you're shuttling back and forth between the House, the Senate, different offices, et cetera, different legislators. But I think it's a legitimate criticism. So on that one, I take responsibility.
Click to expand...
 
thrust, you're back. we all missed your charade that you actually would ever give Obama credit for anything, and hide the reality that you never, ever will.

You may be playing the role of Lucy, but I don't see any Charlie Browns around here.
 
Taking responsibility for allowing things to happen that you promised would not happen is admirable, but half-assed, wouldn't you agree?

Otherwise, next time someone rear-ends your car at a stop light, gets out and says "I'm to blame" and drives off, you can't be mad.

Obama gets half a cookie from me for admitting to the problem. He'll get the other half when he promises, again, to not let it happen.

I guess it's always possible he never truly learned the principle of repentance from his 20 years of listening to Rev Right's sermons, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now...
 
Agreed I was surprised to see him take tough questions (in the form of long talking points) from the House GOP. He gave it back to them though taking them to task for bullshitting and fucking around, portraying his policies as socialist/marxist then acting like he should be surprised they're all voting against his policies.
 
What's a promise going to do?

First rule of parenting: Never promise anything. Something always comes up. Kid might've had a terrific Christmas but if you promise to take him to a movie and get called in to work?

Shittiest parent ever.

Is it true?

No. Things come up that take precedence over one promise to a petulant chill. Hey you keep clinging to that promise and your cookie or whatever.

Hell, if Bush gave neocons everything he'd promised, Syria and North Korea would be additional fronts on the War on Terror, abortion would be outlawed, and the Second Amendment would become the Eleventh Commandment.
 
Dear Mr. President:
Will you please release video to C-Span from your recent personal meeting with the major Union bosses where you promised union members special exemptions on taxes for their health care plans?

Thanks.
 
Don't hate because you're not in a union. I don't like them personally but I can't begrudge they for trying and getting special favors from a Democratic President.
 
Hey, corpos tried to get Cheney to strong-arm the EPA for them so they wouldn't have to install control devices after making major modifications. People like you, UncleBob, were outraged, I'm sure, and were demanding to see a video of the meetings that took place.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']So, the President and a few key Republicans wasted their afternoon with a debate?[/QUOTE]

But they got shit done in the evening making sure all the plans are in place for the false flag attack in Vancouver.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']So, the President and a few key Republicans wasted their afternoon with a debate?[/QUOTE]

I doubt it was worth but there were a few "oh snap" moments.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Great. He took responsibility. Did he mention what he plans to do to stick to his campaign promises from now on?[/QUOTE]
The guy that complains about stuff not being on CSPAN couldn't be bothered to read the article.

That's the thrustbucket I know.
[quote name='UncleBob']Dear Mr. President:
Will you please release video to C-Span from your recent personal meeting with the major Union bosses where you promised union members special exemptions on taxes for their health care plans?[/QUOTE]
The excise tax only affects union members? Why don't you explain what the problem was that unions had and how the president's answer amounts to a "special exemption" for their health care plans. Just to help me get in the know.

Also, many unions specifically target health care coverage in contract negotiations and make wage concessions to up their coverage. In your esteemed view, is it right to penalize them for that?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/obama-house-republicans-debate-their-divisions/?hp

Now I'm sure this isn't enough for some of you (and let's face it, nothing ever will be good enough for you) - when was the last time a President squared off in a debate w/ the opposing party in a public venue such as this?[/QUOTE]

I can't recall a president ever doing what Obama did today. Hats off to him for having the balls to enter such a venue, with open questions on live national TV. Just like "question time" in the British Parliament. I loved it, most interesting event Obama's had in his entire presidency. They really should do this on a regular basis - please? And televised on C-SPAN, of course! I think this is a wonderful thing for our democracy. Again, great credit to Obama for being willing to do this.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Hey, corpos tried to get Cheney to strong-arm the EPA for them so they wouldn't have to install control devices after making major modifications. People like you, UncleBob, were outraged, I'm sure, and were demanding to see a video of the meetings that took place.[/QUOTE]

I must have missed the part where Cheney campaigned on promises of an open and transparent government. Oh, and the State of the Union speech where he repeated those same promises.

Oh, and the part where I really give a turd about Cheney.

[quote name='depascal22']Don't hate because you're not in a union. I don't like them personally but I can't begrudge they for trying and getting special favors from a Democratic President.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I don't begrudge the Union leadership for going after what they can get. It's what they're supposed to do.

I do begrudge politicians who use their power to grant special favors to their friends and chosen ones. That's not what they're supposed to do.

[quote name='speedracer']The excise tax only affects union members? Why don't you explain what the problem was that unions had and how the president's answer amounts to a "special exemption" for their health care plans. Just to help me get in the know.

Also, many unions specifically target health care coverage in contract negotiations and make wage concessions to up their coverage. In your esteemed view, is it right to penalize them for that?[/QUOTE]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-whitney/union-exemption-from-exci_b_423036.html

Health care plans protected by "collective bargaining" are exempted from the excise tax. Since the only legally recognized collective bargaining units are Worker's Unions, you could end up with a situation with two people, of similar age, profession and pay grade where one pays these excise taxes and the other doesn't have to - merely because one is a unionized member.

Many employers target health care as a way to hire in good employees, and thus, logically, offering lower wages. Is it right to "penalize" these employees while letting union members dodge and evade taxes?
 
I'd like to see Wal-Mart unionize.

You would, too, if you knew the substantial benefits of belonging to a union.

But our culture has pushed them aside, dwindled their power, and convinced us that we are better off in terms of earnings and living standards and choices if we do not belong to a union.

I find myself stunned that anyone would believe such a "black is white" lie. It's one thing to say "I don't know if working for a union is any better than not," while it's demonstrably untrue to say that earnings, benefits, and living standards are not vastly better than nonunion work.
 
[quote name='depascal22']What's a promise going to do? [/quote]
Umm. Let me think..... let you ride in Air Force One for four years maybe?

No. Things come up that take precedence over one promise to a petulant chill. Hey you keep clinging to that promise and your cookie or whatever.
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So you are essentially saying that Obama had more important things to do than worry about one of his promises that had both sides of the aisle jumping out of their seats? Like what? Rocking it in Norway? Having beers with domestic disputers?

You Obama apologists need to give me a little more credit. I am saying I give him the benefit of the doubt on the C-SPAN thing and will give him a second chance. How many of you gave Bush a second chance with any of his let downs and broken promises? How could you when you were so busy joining Jon Stewart and company in thinking up clever quips like the one below?

Hell, if Bush gave neocons everything he'd promised, Syria and North Korea would be additional fronts on the War on Terror, abortion would be outlawed, and the Second Amendment would become the Eleventh Commandment.
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I must have missed those promises. Youtube them please. If Bush actually did make those last two promises, I maybe should have been a fan.

*****************************************
As far as something I can back Obama 100% on.
It's even the top story on Drudge. I know it's not all that important of an issue, but it's one Obama has my full support on. :)
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'd like to see John Boehner do some o' that action.[/QUOTE]

That would be interesting too. You could see if his tan came off when he had to sweat.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']That would be interesting too. You could see if his tan came off when he had to sweat.[/QUOTE]

Nah, I just want to see him cry for real for a change.
 
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