Downloading Music vs Pirating Games: Is there a difference?

[quote name='eldad9'][quote name='zionoverfire']:shock: Copyright law is over 100 now? Damn I thought it was like 80 or something and that is still way to long.[/quote]

They extend it whenever mickey mouse is about to enter the public domain.[/quote]

I've been told that but I thought that extended it to 80 something not over 100. And Ironnically that's steam boat micky, so if anyone tried to use modern Micky mouse they would still be sued.
 
Both are wrong. I always like to see the frightening train-wreck of logic that people who steal music and software use to justify their wrongdoing - it's always good for a laugh.
 
[quote name='Crud'][quote name='javeryh'][quote name='Crud'][quote name='zionoverfire']CD prices are way to high.[/quote]

And video game prices aren't?[/quote]

No - not in terms of what it takes to actually make one. How many times do you hear of some jackass "musician" say they wrote an entire CD in an afternoon because "the music was just flowing out of me dude" or something like that. It hardly costs anything to record a cd compared to creating a video game. Besides most, if not all, games get marked down to $20 or less after a year but Sgt. Pepper's is still going for $15.99 40 years after it's release. We are lucky video games are so cheap.[/quote]


Sgt Peppers is a popular cd though... so why would they mark it down? They don't mark down popular video games until a sequal comes out, or until it's been out on the market for quite awhile. Besides, writing a cd and actually going into the studio and recording it are completely different. The studio isn't free ya know, especially for popular bands, it does get quite expensive in the long run, with productions fees and all. I'm not saying it doesn't take a lot of money to make a video game, because I know it does.[/quote]

I understand what you are saying but only a small percentage of games get sequels but all of them are marked down eventually. A used Dreamcast system only costs $15 and I imagine in another 5 years it will cost even less. Recording fees for an artist - even at the top of the line studios where it costs thousands a day - are considerably cheaper than making a game where hundreds of people have to have top of the line equipment to create it not to mention the artists, translators, marketing, etc. I just think that it is reasonable to charge $40 for a new game...
 
[quote name='javeryh']We are lucky video games are so cheap.[/quote]


Well said. That's a good answer to something that shouldn't even need discussing in this thread. If you think games cost too much, don't play them. Play cards instead. You can get a nice deck for a couple of bucks, and you're not playing pretzel logic games to justify ripping someone off.
 
[quote name='nachzeher'][quote name='jaykrue'][quote name='nachzeher'][quote name='jaykrue']Slightly off topic here but nachzeher, could you tell me what systems Fire Emblem is in? I know there's one for GBA but I don't know the others and uh, stealing is bad, m'kay?[/quote]

Here's this is all you need to know about FE releases:

http://www.fact-index.com/f/fi/fire_emblem.html

The latest instalment (FE8) just came out last month in Japan in the GBA. A Fire Emblem on the GCN is expected to come out in 2005.

Fire Emblem: Rekka no Ken (7), as it is known in Japan, is the only one released in the US so far.[/quote]

Sweet! Thanks again! Oh, and which one is your sprites from? that attack sequence kicks ass![/quote]

The one in my sig? It's from the US release. That scenario was just made up though, don't expect a battle like that in the game. Basically it was the three main characters' critical attacks against the final boss.[/quote]

I thought the final boss was a ..... :shock: (Spoiler)
 
The thing that annoys me most about this topic is that people seem to think that they're entitled to having music or video games as some sort of right. These things are luxuries, not necessities. If you don't think they're worth it then simply don't buy it. Just because you think games or music are overpriced doesn't give you the right to steal them. Don't try to sugar-coat it by some sort of self-righteousness. The fact that people try to even defend piracy as "civil disobedience" or describe themselves as crusaders is absolutely ludicrous. These companies deserve to protect their hard work.
 
[quote name='camoor']Video games are not inflated vs CDs, when you factor entertainment value. And you're a cheapass :twisted:

I bought Bond: Nightfire used for $12. Been playing it for an hour a night, 2 and a half weeks straight. How many times are you going to do that with a CD from Tower Records.

It has been proven in court that record companies inflated prices illegally throughout the 1990s, yet all they had to do was unload some stale merchandise on the libraries (Gee thanks for dumping 610,000 copies of "Willenium" NO JOKE) and mail out a few $16 checks to the few ppl who knew about the class action lawsuit against them. They continue to hike prices and now sue the clueless parents of kids who put music on the internet for, on average, $5500 a pop (by law they can request over $100,000 ---> thanks Orin Hatch (R, Utah))

Copyright laws extend out over 100 years, do not benefit the original artists, and only serve to enrich corporations and their lawyers (I'm calling out Cary Sherman and Mitch Bainwol)

The copyright system is broken (we need a more flexible copyright that protects the original artist), people are tired of the tyranny of inflated prices ($12 a CD??? It's overpriced at $3), and the people's actions are tantamount to civil disobedience (similar to what happened during prohibition)

Do yourself a favor and check out www.downhillbattle.org - it's time for change.

I listen to live music or internet radio anymore, you'll never see me buy another RIAA-backed CD again. Congrats RIAA, you just lost another customer for life.

As long as videogames remain reasonably priced, I'm in the game. However I'm not too keen on all this "downloadable content" BS, esp the problem ppl have in trying to sell their PS2 HDD.[/quote]

I'm all for protecting intellectual property, but it has become ridiculous. All of the lawsuits against people who downloaded 35 songs, and all of the lawsuits against musicians who took 1.2 second samples from songs without explicit written consent are just insane.

And Orin Hatch is a complete jackass. I saw some interview with him about music piracy and he said he supported having the government hack in to music downloaders computers, take all of their files, and then corrupt them. He then stated that he wanted to see people serve at least in jail if they downloaded a single song. The people he was with said, "Now, we don't really mean this, but we do think their should be more stringent punishment", trying to give him an out, but he kept digging deeper and said that he meant every word and that he was actually holding back from saying what music downloaders really deserve. Note, I heard this interview on the Today show about 3 years ago, so I am a little fuzzy on the specifics, but the gist of it is that Orin Hatch is a jackass.
 
Yes, the "entitlement" mentality is far too pervasive. The bottom line is that software and music piracy are illegal, and anyone who engages in such acts are criminals, whether they are caught or not.
 
[quote name='dopa345']The thing that annoys me most about this topic is that people seem to think that they're entitled to having music or video games as some sort of right. These things are luxuries, not necessities. If you don't think they're worth it then simply don't buy it. Just because you think games or music are overpriced doesn't give you the right to steal them. Don't try to sugar-coat it by some sort of self-righteousness. The fact that people try to even defend piracy as "civil disobedience" or describe themselves as crusaders is absolutely ludicrous. These companies deserve to protect their hard work.[/quote]

I don't support piracy, but I don't support the music industry. They aren't just protecting their hardwork they are stifling creativity and bankrupting artists. Piracy isn't right, but there is a sense of karma in seeing the Music Industry get its ass handed to it. For far too long they have stolen the intellectual property of artists, gouged their consumers for every last cent, and have tried to stop legitimate technologies (file sharing has its legitmate uses, it isn't often used for them, but it does) because they were afraid of the change.
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']Yes, the "entitlement" mentality is far too pervasive. The bottom line is that software and music piracy are illegal, and anyone who engages in such acts are criminals, whether they are caught or not.[/quote]

Anyone who smokes or has smoked pot is a criminal to, so I guess I don't know anyone who doesn't deserve to be in jail. :D
 
[quote name='dopa345']The thing that annoys me most about this topic is that people seem to think that they're entitled to having music or video games as some sort of right. These things are luxuries, not necessities. If you don't think they're worth it then simply don't buy it. Just because you think games or music are overpriced doesn't give you the right to steal them. Don't try to sugar-coat it by some sort of self-righteousness. The fact that people try to even defend piracy as "civil disobedience" or describe themselves as crusaders is absolutely ludicrous. These companies deserve to protect their hard work.[/quote]

While I agree that it is wrong (in theory), surely you see the "other side" of the argument? Downloading can have positive effects for most everyone involved depending on how you look at it (and there are artists out there who support it).

Every single CD I own (1000+) I purchased because I heard some of it first. Unless it is a band that I already know I like, I would never just buy a CD "blind". I've heard songs for free on the radio and then bought the CD. I've heard songs for free at a friend's house and then bought the CD. I've heard songs for free on TV and then bought the CD. And yes, I've heard songs for free by downloading them and then bought the CD. It's not all bad you know. Ask any band and I'm sure they will tell you that they would rather have their music downloaded than not listened to at all by anyone.
 
Michael Jackson owes the publishing rights to all the Beatles songs doesnt he? Thats great for intellectual property rights.
 
There's not really a big difference. With music, you know what you'll get, whereas games change every time you play them. I'm not going to lie.. I download GBA roms before making a purchase. I download CD's and I buy the ones that are great. I've downloaded a few PC games and ended up going to buy them shortly afterwords (Max Payne 2 immediately springs to mind).

I realize the blood, sweat and tears that go into making games, but there's no game that's a surefire hit. Will I download a PC game to test it out? Absolutely. Do I feel guilty about it? Absolutely. Will I go out and buy it? Unless the game's complete and utter crap, yeah, I go out and buy it.

With music, nothing's guarenteed. The best bands in the world have sold out. I feel no guilt about downloading music, and you know why? Tune in to MTV Cribs when you get a chance, and you'll see just how bad our downloading has hurt these guys. Watch as some rap guy shows you his huge 70+ inch flatscreen plasma TV trimmed in gold. Watch as the guy from Blink 182 says to the camera "Buy more CD's! I need a gold faucet for my sink!".. I do NOT buy mainstream artist's albums.. they're usually crap anyways (Nelly, on one of his CD, has a track that features him laughing. Him and a bunch of people, just laughing. He probably got paid a ton for a track of laughter). I support lesser known artists such as Angie Aparo (please.. visit www.angieaparo.com and check him out), Damien Rice, Joss Stone (who's shot off like a rocket since last year), Teitur, Mike Garrigan, and other stuff.

So.. there's really no difference. You're 'sticking it to the man' in both cases.. but I feel less guilty about downloading music.

This thread would've been better if it was downloading music vs. downloading movies.
 
This thread is delisious.

Personally, I do both....Not often....but I only do it once in a while. I'll usually steal a soundtrack and use that to figure out what other CDs I want to steal. I dont sugar-cote it....Stealing is stealing, test the CD on amazon.com if your pissed that the cd is good for only one song....then you can just buy the CD single. Personally, I dont give a fuck....It's easy and the MPAA and RIAA had their chance to make it work for them and they sat on the idea of MP3 until Napster became mainstream...so, personally...they fucked up...oh well. They can eat a dick....personally.

I hate buying shitty games the most....but I read up with what I want and make logical buying decisions. I bought Halo 2, Last I bought Burnout 3. Pissed that you bought Drake 99 dragons? Well you did cause youre a dumbass....enjoy youre shitty game. I buy most games, but I download PC games and emulators I never actually play. Oh well.

Maybe I'll burn in hell, maybe....but I have rules...like all should.

Like the game? Buy it.
DVD special editions? Buy them...they usually rock.
Music Cds? download.

BUT WHY YOU SAY??

It costs 100 million dollars to make that 15 dollar dvd
and only 10 thousand to make that 17 dollar music cd.....fucking steal it. RIAA are fucking idiots....Its too easy to steal....but the fatcats still want to keep the 6-7 digit salaries....and they cant possibly pay the performers any less....so fuck it. STEAL AWAY. You'll only get that one good song.

Oya...dont download Dave Matthews Band though....not only does he play real music, but he lets people download his live shows. That is very cool in my book...but to each his own.
 
Just remember, the RIAA (or the pre-RIAA version) tryed to shut down radio in the 40's.

Could you imagine buying a CD in 1990 without hearing it on the radio?

It just goes to show, it all comes out in the wash....they just are pissed they have to try harder to hook you in now... thats all.
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']Yes, the "entitlement" mentality is far too pervasive. The bottom line is that software and music piracy are illegal, and anyone who engages in such acts are criminals, whether they are caught or not.[/quote]

Just like anybody who's used DVDs from another region, and heterosexual couples in north carolina who live together but aren't married.
 
[quote name='Scorch'] I support lesser known artists such as Angie Aparo (please.. visit www.angieaparo.com and check him out), [/quote]

Angie aparo! Awesome, I've been a fan of his since 99 but I havnt heard his new album "For Stars and Moon". Last I saw on his site is he was becoming part of a band.
 
Or if you wanted to check out a huge variety of music, legally, buy a satellite radio.
FM radio is the problem; the CD makers are the problem; the suit-and-tie guys who create a band, rather than finding one, are the problem. But piracy isn't the solution.
Yes, there are 'benefits' to it, like being exposed to music you wouldn't normally. But there are other, legal venues for that as well.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']
DVD special editions? Buy them...they usually rock.
It costs 100 million dollars to make that 15 dollar dvd[/quote]

Most dvds came out in theaters and had a chance to recoup their costs there first (obviously some movies did not) so I dont see how the DVD cost $100 mill to make, when they are just or nearly as cheap as cds to manufacture.
And on how many special editions of dvds do you watch all the extra features? 4 discs of Lord of the Rings, ok, I watched the extended versions, but never bothered with the other discs. And not to mention the studios rereleasing dvds to make newer special editions like Terminator 2 - or releasing crap version (Eternal Sunshine/Kill Bill) only to intend to release a better version later on. Theres no need to buy them on the basis of costs, buy them if you like the movie.
 
[quote name='dtcarson']Or if you wanted to check out a huge variety of music, legally, buy a satellite radio.
FM radio is the problem; the CD makers are the problem; the suit-and-tie guys who create a band, rather than finding one, are the problem. But piracy isn't the solution.
Yes, there are 'benefits' to it, like being exposed to music you wouldn't normally. But there are other, legal venues for that as well.[/quote]

satellite radio, yeah see if we throw are money at someone else than the record companies won't be able to take it :D
 
[quote name='dtcarson']Or if you wanted to check out a huge variety of music, legally, buy a satellite radio.
FM radio is the problem; the CD makers are the problem; the suit-and-tie guys who create a band, rather than finding one, are the problem. But piracy isn't the solution.
Yes, there are 'benefits' to it, like being exposed to music you wouldn't normally. But there are other, legal venues for that as well.[/quote]

Satellite radio is fine and all but there's nothing like being able to choose the exact song that you want to listen to at that exact moment. I think that the Ipod solution is only a stopgap solution but it IS better than straight out DLing from a p2p network since you're paying for the songs you like and not have to buy a $12-$17 CD w/ only 3 songs out of 12 that you might like. As for the artists, they're not really bling bling since all the stuff you see on music videos are leased. W/ the exception of someone real big like Puffy or Jay-Z, I'm willing to bet that most of the 'bling' seen on those MTV videos were leased.
 
damn, this thread was a 30 minute read even before it was merged

folks seem to be talking abstractly

personally, before i started downloading songs i would buy 1 or 2 cds a year, i had given up on the radio (still to this day) because i didnt feel it was targeted to me and i didnt like any of the programming, so sometimes i would browse the local library or a friend's collection, but basically it took some effort to listen to quality music.

then i started downloading songs

and since then i have been buying 20-30 cds a year

so it is illegal as it now stands to download music, but if i was the music industry i would find a way for people like me (and i feel there is a lot of us) to be able to listen to music for free as a means of advertisement.

if the music industry clamps down on any downloading, i dont suddenly start buying, i stop buying all together because i am no longer aware of anything to buy
 
[quote name='vherub']damn, this thread was a 30 minute read even before it was merged

folks seem to be talking abstractly

personally, before i started downloading songs i would buy 1 or 2 cds a year, i had given up on the radio (still to this day) because i didnt feel it was targeted to me and i didnt like any of the programming, so sometimes i would browse the local library or a friend's collection, but basically it took some effort to listen to quality music.

then i started downloading songs

and since then i have been buying 20-30 cds a year

so it is illegal as it now stands to download music, but if i was the music industry i would find a way for people like me (and i feel there is a lot of us) to be able to listen to music for free as a means of advertisement.

if the music industry clamps down on any downloading, i dont suddenly start buying, i stop buying all together because i am no longer aware of anything to buy[/quote]

Very good point.
 
[quote name='Arakias'][quote name='Scorch'] I support lesser known artists such as Angie Aparo (please.. visit www.angieaparo.com and check him out), [/quote]

Angie aparo! Awesome, I've been a fan of his since 99 but I havnt heard his new album "For Stars and Moon". Last I saw on his site is he was becoming part of a band.[/quote]

Yeah. He has a myspace account. Head over to angieaddicts.com and they have a link. It's.. okay. I like it when better when the band wasn't around.

Ever see him in person? He's pretty short, but he's AWESOME. He autographed the CD booklet for OOTE, The American and WOMC/One With The Sun. FS&M hadn't been released yet (Actually, WOMC had just been released)
 
[quote name='eldad9'][quote name='Heavy Hitter']Yes, the "entitlement" mentality is far too pervasive. The bottom line is that software and music piracy are illegal, and anyone who engages in such acts are criminals, whether they are caught or not.[/quote]

Just like anybody who's used DVDs from another region, and heterosexual couples in north carolina who live together but aren't married.[/quote]

And the dangerous felons who drank in the 1920s.

Don't you kids know about the 70s. Bowties will never be cool, the Republicans aren't looking out for you, and corporations don't just want your money, they want your soul.

It seems that the pop treacle of Britney Beers and Justin Timbertoes has done what folk rock never could, it has broken the constant streak of youthful rebelliousness.
 
[quote name='dtcarson']Or if you wanted to check out a huge variety of music, legally, buy a satellite radio.
FM radio is the problem; the CD makers are the problem; the suit-and-tie guys who create a band, rather than finding one, are the problem. But piracy isn't the solution.
Yes, there are 'benefits' to it, like being exposed to music you wouldn't normally. But there are other, legal venues for that as well.[/quote]

Free internet radio like shoutcast radio also rocks.
 
I do download music, but I do feel ripped off when I pay 15 bucks for a cd when I can get a xbox PH that will last me longer for the same price.

And I don't feel guilty. I can say I've droped over $100 in one visit to a music store. I drop so much cash on cds it's nuts. My sig has like only 50% of my music collection.
 
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