DS vs. PSP... One Warthogs Opinion

pumbaa

pumbaa

CAGiversary!
Sparking this post is the many articles in the mainstream press that seem to be choosing the PSP to be the better of the two systems.

I did a research paper for my japanese culture class about the Game Boy series of portables. Basically I mapped out a history of the thing and its competitors and how iit has survived and become a tour de force. I came to the conclusion that in portable gaming, its not better graphics (Game Gear) or more features (tiger.com), that equals success. Its basically battery life and (now) the "Game Boy" name. Now obviously we can all discuss how this is a "3rd pillar" and such. But honestly, the average consumer is going to see this and a new Game Boy... no doubt about it. I;m pretty sure that the DS will sell more than the PSP, because history has proven so. There is really nothing like the GameBoy series in videogame history. Remember, it survived with a 4bit processor and a BW screen again an 8bit color screened powerhouse. I think the past success of the GameBoy series against very simliar odds with the GameGear is without a doubt the main reason to bet on the DS. Obviously, I'm simply a college student with an opinion, please by all means make a case for the PSP... I'm intrested in what you guys think the mainstream videogame player will choose, and which will sell more.

/end rant

*If you want my Game Boy paper for any odd reason, PM me and I'll try to get it for ya.

EDIT: Ignore the poll... theres one like it already

EDIT (once more): I didnt intend for this to be a PSP vs. DS post. I'm mainly intrested in what you guys the the mainstream impact of these two systems will be. Obviously, we have our personal fave's, but what do you think the gaming majority will buy.
 
The trick will be Sony parleying their success in the console world to the handheld. It is true, Nintendo's game boy has been assaulted before and it has been the victor in every bout regardless of the quality (high or low) of the competing system.

I suppose a couple bits of information to consider is, the PSP is without a doublt the biggest competitor the game boy has ever faced. The PSP will likely have tons of 3rd party support, if Sony can keep the PSP from being a dumping ground for crap, they might have a huge amount of variety of games.

Another item to consider is Nintendo is radically deviating from the traditional design of the gameboy. Nintendo has radically deviated one other time before (Virtual Boy) and we all know how that turned out...
In no way am I implying that the NDS will flop on the level of the VB (if at all), but John Q gamer may take a look at this odd contraption with 2 screens, and think it a gimmick. With the exception of 1st-party software, the first generation of NDS games will probably use the 2nd screen for gimmicky uses (overhead map, 2nd camera angle, etc).

IMHO, since NDS will be to the market first, the key will a solid, continous stream of quality 1st party AND 3rd party software.

Edit 1: I am also interested in the potential of the PSP as a movie viewer, it's supposed to have quite an impressive (and large) screen.
In addition, the analog nub will be nice to have for better control than a D-pad.
 
I think the Sony PSP will win, simply because the blind fanboys and Sony worshippers will pick up the PSP the day it comes out.

Don't get me wrong. I'll probably end up getting a PSP as well...when it drops below $200. But I know a lot of people picking up the PSP over the DS because "it looks cooler and Sony is teh r0xx0r5!!!!1!!!." They don't even bother to do any research.
 
Excuse me, 4-bit processor? Where did you get that from? The Game Boys have been Z80 systems from the start up until the GBA switch to ARM architecture chips.

Another critical factor for the Game Boy formula is price. This is why Nintendo says the DS is NOT a successor the the GBA SP and that a new sub-$100 unit will eventually appear for that purpose while the GBA SP move down to the $60 mark and evetually discontinued. all of the GB's would-be competitiors have not only faced challenges in battery life but also in price competitiveness. The battery life issue has been a lesser problem for more recent entries like the Neo-Geo Pocket and Bandai WonderSwan but the price of entry remained a penalty until Nintendo also offered color and more recently substantially increased processing power that enabled easy porting of major SNES hits to massively bolster the exclusive library.

The idea of the PSP putting a dent in the GBA market requires that they be in competition. They aren't. The difference in price is so great as to put them in entirely different markets. A substantial portion of PSP owners will also have the GBA SP or DS for the sake of the exclusive software for those machines. Unless the PSP owner truly used up all his resources to get the unit he'll likely be affluent enough to also afford the much less expensive system as well. Plenty of people who have a expensive sports car or SUV for weekend fun still keep an econobox around for its practical uses during the week. The PSP is plainly less suited to casual living in a school backpack and play on a whim. Thus the market for Game Boys among PSP owners is significant but the reverse is much less so.

The PSP may impinge of the DS's market but it has a good lead in reaching the market in time for this year's Xmas season, which is no small factor in building an installed base to win further third party support. The PSP, by comparison, has yet to see it first public hands-on demonstration and rumors persist of technical hitches in finalizing the design before production starts.

Other than having the word 'Boy' in its name the Virtual Boy had absolutely nothing to do with the Game Boy products. It was a completely separate attempt at a new market that failed but has no bearing on this issue. Nintendo could have saved themselves considerable trouble with more market testing that would have quickly shown the system lacked a viable market unless the price dropped drastically.

Nor should the DS be seen as threatened with a gimmicky image. That will end about five minutes after the demo stations are set up at game retailers. I spent a fair amount of hands-on time with the unit at E3 and found that the dual screen concept is extremely practical. It provides most of the benefits of a much larger screen while still fitting in a very compact clamshell for ease of carrying when not in use. Using the second screen for things like maps and character status is far from a gimmick, also. Removing those items from the main view makes the limited size and resolution of that screen much more effective, akin to having a larger higher res screen. This make things like FPS games hugely more practical on what remains a very small unit, especially compared to the dimensions of the PSP.

As well, people wondering how the stylus will apply to games should check out this cool surgery simulator on this site http://the-magicbox.com/gaming.htm

Stylus as scalpal. I'm looking forward to this one. Atlus should be the US publisher according to reports.
 
as much as I want a DS, the stylus is garbage as is the touch screen. Being left handed, I would have a lot of problems holding the system and not dropping it.


That said I will pick up a PSP and whatever Nintendo cranks out after the DS.
 
"Excuse me, 4-bit processor? Where did you get that from? The Game Boys have been Z80 systems from the start up until the GBA switch to ARM architecture chips."

Of course, you are right. Sorry about that one.

On the matter of there being two different markets for handheld gaming, do you honestly expect a new market to form? I dont think the PSP deviates enough from the "portable gaming" standard to create a new "grownup" portable market. From a market perspective, who is looking for an expensive alternative to the GameBoy? I think this argument about the two systems not competing with each other is akin to Nintendo's stance that the Gamecube wasn't (isnt?) competing with the Ps2 and Xbox. The PSP is a handheld system, and INMO will be viewed as just that. Maybe the PSP would break this mold if it could easily play MP3's and movie files, but Sony seems hell bent on using their own media for that. The minidisc never really took off, and all the MP3 players that Sony makes seem to get bashed for the ATRAC conversion process that they make consumers go through. I don't see the mainstream market looking at this as something different from past portables. Obviously an excellent advertising and marketing blitz could do wonders for the PSP's image (imagine the possibilities with GT4 on both systems looking very similar). But it's going to take one hell of an ad blitz for sony to break free of the "portable gaming" mindset.

EDIT: Spelling corrections!!!
 
[quote name='pumbaa']"Excuse me, 4-bit processor? Where did you get that from? The Game Boys have been Z80 systems from the start up until the GBA switch to ARM architecture chips."

Of course, you are right. Sorry about that one.

On the matter of there being two different markets for handheld gaming, do you honestly expect a new market to form? I dont think the PSP deviates enough from the "portable gaming" standard to create a new "grownup" portable market. From a market perspective, who is looking for an expensive alternative to the GameBoy? I think this argument about the two systems not competing with each other is akin to Nintendo's stance that the Gamecube wasn't (isnt?) competing with the Ps2 and Xbox. The PSP is a handheld system, and INMO will be viewed as just that. Maybe the PSP would break this mold if it could easily play MP3's and movie files, but Sony seems hell bent on using their own media for that. The minidisc never really took off, and all the MP3 players that Sony makes seem to get bashed for the ATRAC conversion process that they make consumers go through. I don't see the mainstream market looking at this as something different from past portables. Obviously an excellent advertising and marketing blitz could do wonders for the PSP's image (imagine the possibilities with GT4 on both systems looking very similar). But it's going to take one hell of an ad blitz for sony to break free of the "portable gaming" mindset.

EDIT: Spelling corrections!!![/quote]

If you are in the business of selling $20, 000 general purpose sedans, are you cause much worry about your market when somebody opens up a dealership next door selling $50,000 sports cars? Of course not. THe price disparity makes a huge difference. When Sony has a handheld for substantially under $200, that product may affect the GB market. But expensive high end items that are beyond the economic reach of 80% of your existing user base are not cause for worry.

The PSP has some attractive qualities but all of those come at a expese of cost of entry, battery life, and compromised portability combined with worries of fragility. It will need to succeed on its own merits in a major way before it will make a dent in Nintendo's mainstream portable product line. To make Nintendo feel any pain the PSP not only has to define a new high-end market that has never previously been shown to exist, it also has to achieve an installed base vastly great than any previous challenger to the GB line. In this respect Sony is facing many of the same challenges Microsoft took on in producing the Xbox. At best, the Xbox has laid the groundwork to let Microsoft compete on an equal footing in the next generation. On its own it has not been an overall success.

Sony faces an additional problem if the PSP is succesful without being a massive success. This will signal Nintendo (as well as Microsoft and several others eyeing the market) that there is potential for more expensive handhelds if you can support it with sufficiently popular software. With that in mind Nintnedo is in a better position to strike high than Sony is to strike low.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']as much as I want a DS, the stylus is garbage as is the touch screen. Being left handed, I would have a lot of problems holding the system and not dropping it.


That said I will pick up a PSP and whatever Nintendo cranks out after the DS.[/quote]

I'm left handed. Why should that be a problem? Left handed is not synonymous with clumsy.
 
Yeah it seems Nintendo forgot about left handed people when designing the DS. So right now I'm leaning towards the psp, but in the end what is gong to make my decisions is the games. Castlevania on the DS is going to be awesome, but then a portable Hot Shots Golf game is a dream come true.
 
The PSP will Blow DS away because it does way more than just play games so it will appeal to the mainstream crowd and leave DS in its dust.
 
The PSP may have a whole bunch of third party companies helping them, the DS is having Microsoft build games for them. My Vote goes to the DS.
 
[quote name='SupremeNumNuts']Yeah it seems Nintendo forgot about left handed people when designing the DS. So right now I'm leaning towards the psp, but in the end what is gong to make my decisions is the games. Castlevania on the DS is going to be awesome, but then a portable Hot Shots Golf game is a dream come true.[/quote]

I hate to tell you, but it would be extremely easy for any developer to mirror the controls to accomdate left handed players. Don't think for a second that this isn't and hasn't been an issue at the Nintendo table. This is just like people jumping on the stylus bandwagon. Just because it exists as a feature doesn't mean you'll be controlling every game with it.

[quote name='desertfox1613']The PSP will Blow DS away because it does way more than just play games so it will appeal to the mainstream crowd and leave DS in its dust.[/quote]

Yeah, Nokia's N-Gage blew the Game Boy out of the water thanks to extra feautres no one cared about, among other things. Good call.
 
Basically a response to epobirs last post.

I can understand why Sony would feel the need to pack their handheld with features to differentiate itself from Nintendo. But, My point is that all the "great" features that PSP have a couple of deep deep flaws. Neither the movie playback or the music playback offer the freedom and intuitiveness that I think would make them successful.

And, more importantly I think that now the trend in gadgets seems to be less is more. Take the recent new iPod hardware. A very incremental update to a simple product because thats what people are buying. Simplicity is key in the gadget realms, especially if Sony wants the mainstream market. I just don't see the PSP as simple. I have to rebuy my movies in another format, I can't put my own music onto the discs, I have to buy it. Obviously this thing is a game machine and I;m sure thats what most people will buy it for. But all designing hardware with these features in mind takes away from the main goal of handhelds are... pure gaming. Thus battery life, portability, durability, and simplicity take a hit and those are the EXACT qualities Nintendo has been to adament about protecting in the GameBoy line. I think this will filter over to the DS and I think it will inherit its cousins success

Maybe I'm wrong and Sony will hit it head on, make the PSP a simple powerhouse and end up with the gaming equivalent of the iPod. But reading all the articles and interviews about this product, it seems like the name and clout of Sony is the only reason this machine is getting all the hype. Mainstream Media seems to think that Playstation success will equate to PSP success, and I just don't see it happening.
 
I'm planning to hold off on buying either for a while, sinece how it's a rare occasion to find myself playing GBA.

As far as people who are actually looking for a new handheld go, I'd say Nentendo's gonna pull another Wonder Swan and completely decapitate the competition. The PSP is way too pricey, has really lame sounding games lined up for it, and is going up against a market that Nintendo has manhandled for all its existance. Plus the PSP's battery life sucks hard, and it has no chance of getting Pokemon black/white/whatever the hell color combination you can think up, ever to appear on it.
 
[quote name='SupremeNumNuts']Yeah it seems Nintendo forgot about left handed people when designing the DS. So right now I'm leaning towards the psp, but in the end what is gong to make my decisions is the games. Castlevania on the DS is going to be awesome, but then a portable Hot Shots Golf game is a dream come true.[/quote]

Perhaps I'm not left-hand dominant enough but again I ask, why should this matter? I have an Atari Lynx, the only handheld that offered a left-handed mode by flipping the display and controls. I found that I never needed to use the feature.
 
I was very much interested in the PSP until I read news saying that games like GT4 would be ports of the PS2 version. Honestly, I don't want console games on the go with me. I'd rather something new and/or different. And I'm a bit afraid that the PS2 ports will be the quick and easy way to bring a lot of content to the PSP fast. As it is, I had doubts in whether or not developers would want to spend the kind of money required in making a PS2-quality game on a portable system.
 
[quote name='epobirs'][quote name='SupremeNumNuts']Yeah it seems Nintendo forgot about left handed people when designing the DS. So right now I'm leaning towards the psp, but in the end what is gong to make my decisions is the games. Castlevania on the DS is going to be awesome, but then a portable Hot Shots Golf game is a dream come true.[/quote]

Perhaps I'm not left-hand dominant enough but again I ask, why should this matter? I have an Atari Lynx, the only handheld that offered a left-handed mode by flipping the display and controls. I found that I never needed to use the feature.[/quote]

Because using the stylus with my right hand is going to make me suck at almost every game that uses it.
 
[quote name='pumbaa']Basically a response to epobirs last post.

I can understand why Sony would feel the need to pack their handheld with features to differentiate itself from Nintendo. But, My point is that all the "great" features that PSP have a couple of deep deep flaws. Neither the movie playback or the music playback offer the freedom and intuitiveness that I think would make them successful.

And, more importantly I think that now the trend in gadgets seems to be less is more. Take the recent new iPod hardware. A very incremental update to a simple product because thats what people are buying. Simplicity is key in the gadget realms, especially if Sony wants the mainstream market. I just don't see the PSP as simple. I have to rebuy my movies in another format, I can't put my own music onto the discs, I have to buy it. Obviously this thing is a game machine and I;m sure thats what most people will buy it for. But all designing hardware with these features in mind takes away from the main goal of handhelds are... pure gaming. Thus battery life, portability, durability, and simplicity take a hit and those are the EXACT qualities Nintendo has been to adament about protecting in the GameBoy line. I think this will filter over to the DS and I think it will inherit its cousins success

Maybe I'm wrong and Sony will hit it head on, make the PSP a simple powerhouse and end up with the gaming equivalent of the iPod. But reading all the articles and interviews about this product, it seems like the name and clout of Sony is the only reason this machine is getting all the hype. Mainstream Media seems to think that Playstation success will equate to PSP success, and I just don't see it happening.[/quote]

I agree that the secondary features of the PSP are questionable. Rebuying media I already own for this format is unappealing. Sony has a reason to push this. (Besides the fact that once you have cheap media it's an inevitable option, like DVD playback on consoles.) Sony fully realizes this price point is a hard sell but at the same time they need the level of game performance to distinguish their product in the face of a weaker range of exclusive software franchises. They cannot command third party support in the handheld sector the way they do by virtue of massive installed base in the console realm. So how to sell this?

One approach is the Swiss Army Knife method Sony is using. If they can convince the consumer that this is fulfilling a wide range of their 'needs' and thus is saving them money. It also does a lot to make the home video and music division at Sony happy and hoping to make a nick in the iPOD market since Sony is otherwise hopeless in the portable music player business they originated.

OTOH, once you've made a decision to use some form of disc media instead of mask ROMs you have a big advantage in pricing and alternate applications. Provided the technical requirements for supporting a drive (RAM requirements, power draw, size, etc.) don't ruin your viability you can undercut Nintendo on game pricing. PSP game pricing remains unannounced but if Sony bites the bullet and goes for an average SRP of $24.99 or even less, this could overcome a major portion of the market's price resistance.

I'm not very taken with the idea of watching movies I've puirchased in a substantially lower resolution than NTSC but there may be more to it. One of the things found in Sony's PSX DVR console is a Memory Stick slot. By no small coincidence the PSP also has a Memory Stick slot. If Sony provided the capability on the PSX or future device to encode recorded shows in MPEG-4 at the PSP's resolution, you'll be able to get a couple hours of material in the capacity of Memory Stick that is already below $50. As an adjunct to a DVR the playback capability of the PSP could be much more appealing, especially to commuters.

Sony has been working on a very elaborate web of devices for years now. Remember when they were pitching the PS2 as a personal computer alternative? This is just the latest iteration of their attempts to get households to adopt an all-Sony lifestyle.

I'm still betting on nintendo but Sony's products aren't as simple as they may seem at first glance.
 
[quote name='Sartori'][quote name='SupremeNumNuts']Yeah it seems Nintendo forgot about left handed people when designing the DS. So right now I'm leaning towards the psp, but in the end what is gong to make my decisions is the games. Castlevania on the DS is going to be awesome, but then a portable Hot Shots Golf game is a dream come true.[/quote]

I hate to tell you, but it would be extremely easy for any developer to mirror the controls to accomdate left handed players. Don't think for a second that this isn't and hasn't been an issue at the Nintendo table. This is just like people jumping on the stylus bandwagon. Just because it exists as a feature doesn't mean you'll be controlling every game with it. [/quote]

Indeed. A feature needn't be oppressive just because it has little bearing on your own usage. I think the connectivity features of the GBA are a great thing but I've only ever connected to another GBA one time, to transfer data from Golden Sun 1 to Golden Sun 2. I have the cable but I've never connected it to my GameCube. But plenty of other have and derived enjoyment and value from the feature. That hasn't hurt me at all or made me regret my GBA purchase.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback'][quote name='epobirs'][quote name='SupremeNumNuts']Yeah it seems Nintendo forgot about left handed people when designing the DS. So right now I'm leaning towards the psp, but in the end what is gong to make my decisions is the games. Castlevania on the DS is going to be awesome, but then a portable Hot Shots Golf game is a dream come true.[/quote]

Perhaps I'm not left-hand dominant enough but again I ask, why should this matter? I have an Atari Lynx, the only handheld that offered a left-handed mode by flipping the display and controls. I found that I never needed to use the feature.[/quote]

Because using the stylus with my right hand is going to make me suck at almost every game that uses it.[/quote]

Don't sell yourself short. I wouldn't want to produce correspondance with my right hand but then I wouldn't want to be represented by the handwriting from my left hand either. It would be serviceable but still embarrassing. (I got attached to word processing very quickly after getting my first computer.)

As mentioned by another poster it isn't difficult to flip the system in software. Like the Lynx this may be supplied as a BIOS function to make it simpler for developers. In this case you'd play with the touchscreen as the upper display and the D-pad on the right instead of the left, leaving your left hand free for stylus use. Other games might go the other way since the buttons are more likely to be needed in combination with the stylus than the D-pad.
 
I think everyone is missing the big picture here. Nintendo is doing a great thing by including that seemingly "gimmick" that is the stylus. Let us not forget the opposite sex could put this instrument to many more uses than they could a PSP in the areas known sexual stimulation. I suppose a guy could too, but that's a really small percentage of "guys" and god knows that type of man would have already "stuck" his money into a different investment known only as the N-Gage, as it is much more fitting an item, as the gay man would undoubtedly choose the gayest handheld system possible, and none come gayer than that.
 
The big picture is that either of these portables will be better at something than the other game simply because the two companies have completly different views on what makes good portable gaming, also both have different "gimmicky" fucntions and will have to convince people they are worth havign for those features to sell.

With that said many people will simply buy both, but which one they buy first is to be determinded by the software they launch with.

Also the Ngage is gay no matter what they do with it. Period.
 
[quote name='dracula']the atari lynx was still better than either the psp or ds

*runs*[/quote]

Man, that thing is like a brick. I've got this great "carry on the go" backup power supply (and if that simply "sounds" big - it is). It's huge and weighs a couple pounds. Ugh.
 
In all seriousness, i will just wait for both of them to be cheap(re: 100 with a $30 rebate at FYE) and then get them both. If i like one better than the other, i will trade the one i dont like as much.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback'][quote name='epobirs'][quote name='SupremeNumNuts']Yeah it seems Nintendo forgot about left handed people when designing the DS. So right now I'm leaning towards the psp, but in the end what is gong to make my decisions is the games. Castlevania on the DS is going to be awesome, but then a portable Hot Shots Golf game is a dream come true.[/quote]

Perhaps I'm not left-hand dominant enough but again I ask, why should this matter? I have an Atari Lynx, the only handheld that offered a left-handed mode by flipping the display and controls. I found that I never needed to use the feature.[/quote]

Because using the stylus with my right hand is going to make me suck at almost every game that uses it.[/quote]

Shit, you're right. I'm left-handed as well...maybe I'll need to try it out in-store before I consider buying it. :?
 
[quote name='Maverick CRV']I think the Sony PSP will win, simply because the blind fanboys and Sony worshippers will pick up the PSP the day it comes out.

Don't get me wrong. I'll probably end up getting a PSP as well...when it drops below $200. But I know a lot of people picking up the PSP over the DS because "it looks cooler and Sony is teh r0xx0r5!!!!1!!!." They don't even bother to do any research.[/quote]


Yeah, I am sure there are no Nintendo fanboys out there that would buy the DS simply because it is made by Nintendo...


As for me, I will probably get them both eventually.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback'][quote name='epobirs'][quote name='SupremeNumNuts']Yeah it seems Nintendo forgot about left handed people when designing the DS. So right now I'm leaning towards the psp, but in the end what is gong to make my decisions is the games. Castlevania on the DS is going to be awesome, but then a portable Hot Shots Golf game is a dream come true.[/quote]

Perhaps I'm not left-hand dominant enough but again I ask, why should this matter? I have an Atari Lynx, the only handheld that offered a left-handed mode by flipping the display and controls. I found that I never needed to use the feature.[/quote]

Because using the stylus with my right hand is going to make me suck at almost every game that uses it.[/quote]
most the games that use the stylus allow you to use the right sided buttons for the directional pad, i mean this is how the controls were at e3, also im left handed and i dont think it will be that big of a deal even if i had to use my right hand
 
Personally, I am going to get the DS, eventually, when the price drops. I think the MSRP is 180, which is way too much, IMO.
 
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