DS vs. the PSP (A graphical discussion)

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jkam

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Now it is very obvious that the PSP has the edge when it comes to graphics but how big is the actual margain? It is also obvious in terms of specs but....

The DS at this point is only showing off mainly 2D games. It appears that with Mario 64 and Metroid Prime Hunters the system is capable of a lot more than that. I'd say a little better than the N64.

Now from what most people are saying about the PSP it lies somewhere between the PS1 and the PS2. Whichs means it's better than a N64.

So I'm wondering how big the margain will be once each system has a nice lineup of games. Thoughts?
 
We're really not going to know where the DS lies untill more 3D games are done.

Mario 64 DS does look a lot better then the N64 version. and from the tech demo Sega did for Sonic I would think that the DS's power lies close to the same as the Dreamcast. But we really won't know till more 3D games come out.
 
Graphicly the PSP wins, but I think that it will become a fad. Its battery and gameformat IMO will not hold up. They should have made better use with the discs than using them and getting so-so battery life. Im gunna hold off on both till they show me what theyre made of.
 
Don't forget the difference in screen resolution. While some will try to weasel out and suggest the DS should be treated as the combined resolution of its two screens, this doesn't really work. The focus of one's attention is going to be on one screen at any given time.

There is a tremendous difference in detail that puts a big restraint on what can be clearly depicted on the DS screen regardless of difference in polygon counts. But that is the difference between two devices in which one has a manufacturing cost over twice of the other. Nintendo's focus in handheld hardware has always been toward affordable and adequate rather than razzle dazzle at any cost.
 
I actually feel the DS is a little bit worse than the N64. The screens are so small that they make the games look on par with the N64, but if you blew them up to the size of your televison they would look really bad.

I feel even later down the line when the games look even better on the DS, say a game like Nintendogs, which looks to be on of the DS's best looking games, that the PSP still blows it away in the graphics department by a huge margin. Not to mention that the PSP games will countinue to look better as time goes on as well.

As you can see the Nintendogs game looks really good, but the PSP still is much cleaner, can pull off more effects, and have much more stuff going on during the game then the DS can. When you look at Nintendogs, you can see the actual dogs look great, but the rest of the room is completely bland/uninteractive.

nintendogs-20050309005427742.jpg


twisted-metal-head-on-20050225012538608.jpg
 
I think we're going to see the PSP pull further and further ahead in the graphics department. There are a lot more games in development for the PSP and just by shear volume, those games are going to give the PSP a better chance of pushing the graphics.

Besides Metroid, I haven't seen a game that even comes anywhere close to anything on the PSP. I just don't see developers taking the time to make graphic intense games for the DS. The DS is currently seeing SNES/N64 rehashes while the PSP is seeing PS1/PS2 rehashes. The games that aren't rehashed seem to be the same quality as what you would see on those respective home consoles. I believe this trend will continue throughout the lives of these systems.
 
There isn't much vs at all. The PSP clearly defeats the DS in terms of graphics and hardware capabilities. Do graphics make a console? no.
But the answer for this one is pretty clear =p
 
[quote name='shipwreck']I think we're going to see the PSP pull further and further ahead in the graphics department. There are a lot more games in development for the PSP and just by shear volume, those games are going to give the PSP a better chance of pushing the graphics.

Besides Metroid, I haven't seen a game that even comes anywhere close to anything on the PSP. I just don't see developers taking the time to make graphic intense games for the DS. The DS is currently seeing SNES/N64 rehashes while the PSP is seeing PS1/PS2 rehashes. The games that aren't rehashed seem to be the same quality as what you would see on those respective home consoles. I believe this trend will continue throughout the lives of these systems.[/quote]

Actually, the DS has the PSP beat in terms of future games announced. Carry on then.
 
[quote name='pumbaa'][quote name='shipwreck']I think we're going to see the PSP pull further and further ahead in the graphics department. There are a lot more games in development for the PSP and just by shear volume, those games are going to give the PSP a better chance of pushing the graphics.

Besides Metroid, I haven't seen a game that even comes anywhere close to anything on the PSP. I just don't see developers taking the time to make graphic intense games for the DS. The DS is currently seeing SNES/N64 rehashes while the PSP is seeing PS1/PS2 rehashes. The games that aren't rehashed seem to be the same quality as what you would see on those respective home consoles. I believe this trend will continue throughout the lives of these systems.[/quote]

Actually, the DS has the PSP beat in terms of future games announced. Carry on then.[/quote]


Does the PSP even have any future games announced?
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali'][quote name='pumbaa'][quote name='shipwreck']I think we're going to see the PSP pull further and further ahead in the graphics department. There are a lot more games in development for the PSP and just by shear volume, those games are going to give the PSP a better chance of pushing the graphics.

Besides Metroid, I haven't seen a game that even comes anywhere close to anything on the PSP. I just don't see developers taking the time to make graphic intense games for the DS. The DS is currently seeing SNES/N64 rehashes while the PSP is seeing PS1/PS2 rehashes. The games that aren't rehashed seem to be the same quality as what you would see on those respective home consoles. I believe this trend will continue throughout the lives of these systems.[/quote]

Actually, the DS has the PSP beat in terms of future games announced. Carry on then.[/quote]


Does the PSP even have any future games announced?[/quote]

I calls 'em like I sees 'em.
 
According to EBgames, the DS has 28 upcoming games, while the PSP has 25 upcoming games. So, they have about the same number of games with release dates. I know of several games for PSP that have been announced that are not on EB and I'm sure the same is probably true for the DS.

But look at the upcoming games, the majority of games coming to the DS are not graphic powerhouses.

EDIT: Here's another interesting little tidbit, according to EB games 21 of the 25 upcoming PSP games are due out by May. Only 12 of the upcoming DS games are due out by May.

So by the end of May, the PSP will have 34 games and the DS (which has been out for 4 months longer) will have 29 games. That's if all those games hit their release dates and no other games are released in that time.
 
A list of over 100 future releases for both platforms can easily be assembled after a little web surfing. This will include many instances of publishers saying a game from franchise X is in the works but such is life for new platforms.

The PSP launch may include much that is little different from a console predecessor but at least there are those choices. I expect the flow of PSP product to be more regular as it presents something much closer to current consoles for developers to use. This may make finding good games harder for those of us with multiple consoles and large libraries but we aren't the mainstream audience.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']According to EBgames, the DS has 28 upcoming games, while the PSP has 25 upcoming games. So, they have about the same number of games with release dates. I know of several games for PSP that have been announced that are not on EB and I'm sure the same is probably true for the DS.

But look at the upcoming games, the majority of games coming to the DS are not graphic powerhouses.

EDIT: Here's another interesting little tidbit, according to EB games 21 of the 25 upcoming PSP games are due out by May. Only 12 of the upcoming DS games are due out by May.

So by the end of May, the PSP will have 34 games and the DS (which has been out for 4 months longer) will have 29 games. That's if all those games hit their release dates and no other games are released in that time.[/quote]

I'm not talking about lists from retailers (as they don't have all the games that have been announced for release). Like my man above said, search the web and you'll easily find DS game lists complied and PSP game lists compiled.
 
I see the DS as a little better than the N64 graphically and the PS2 is a little less powerful than the PS2. I guess you get what you pay for.
 
[quote name='Purkeynator']I see the DS as a little better than the N64 graphically and the PS2 is a little less powerful than the PS2. I guess you get what you pay for.[/quote]

What?
 
[quote name='pumbaa'][quote name='shipwreck']According to EBgames, the DS has 28 upcoming games, while the PSP has 25 upcoming games. So, they have about the same number of games with release dates. I know of several games for PSP that have been announced that are not on EB and I'm sure the same is probably true for the DS.

But look at the upcoming games, the majority of games coming to the DS are not graphic powerhouses.

EDIT: Here's another interesting little tidbit, according to EB games 21 of the 25 upcoming PSP games are due out by May. Only 12 of the upcoming DS games are due out by May.

So by the end of May, the PSP will have 34 games and the DS (which has been out for 4 months longer) will have 29 games. That's if all those games hit their release dates and no other games are released in that time.[/quote]

I'm not talking about lists from retailers (as they don't have all the games that have been announced for release). Like my man above said, search the web and you'll easily find DS game lists complied and PSP game lists compiled.[/quote]

I tend to only go by games that are at least in retailers' systems. There are a lot of games that are announced that never come to fruition. You get a better idea of what is actually coming out from retailers. Plus, 34 games in 2 months compared to 29 games in 6 months gives me a pretty good idea that there is going to be substantially more games coming out for the PSP.
 
The thing about the DS is that it only has ebough power as to be able to produce the bare minimum of 3d that nintendo feels people would be interested in and still manage to have power requirements close to that of the GBASP.

If They WANTED to they could have jacked the DS up to the same level but figured what's the point? "We can make a polygon ball and texture map mario's head to it what more do you need to have fun?" As long as the system cam perform to the level they need for it to in order to produce the games they think people will enjoy playing they didn't need more. You've got some polygonal detail, you've got a little lighting and effects and ultimately it's just a little higher than a PS1 with perspective correction but without the texture smoothing or resolution of a N64.

Sony on the other hand has always been about style and flash, The biggest bang for the buck that they can give you at the time. So their goal was "get as close as you can to PS2 graphics as possible and a little more if you can manage it" and thats pretty much what they did. The PSP can do almost as much graphically as a PS2 but since the screen is much smaller than a tv they pulled back a bit and instead added new lighting and texturing routines to make up for it. The result is something close to first gen PS2 games easily with a lower resolution.
 
I think the gap in graphics will be pretty large and the PSP's screen will only push it further ahead. DS games are going to have to rely on style in order to meet the visual splendor of PSP games. I may be cutting both systems short, but I consider the DS's graphics only on par with the N64 and the PSP's graphics only on par with very early PS2 games. However, it's all very early yet and i'm sure plenty of tricks will be learned on both units.
 
My main point though really is this:

It appears that the DS isn't being pushed to its graphically limitation at all. If you compare Super Mario 64 DS to say Metal Gear Acid...the difference isn't as big. I don't understand why game publishers tend to dummy down with Nintendo's hardware. People thought the PS2 was better than the Gamecube graphically early on but now seeing Resident Evil 4 and the new Zelda it is pretty obvious that it isn't. The Gameboy Advance also seems to get games that don't take full advantage of the hardware. That is why I am really intrested in seeing what pops up as these consoles age a bit.
 
If you;re trying to say you think the DS will be as powerful as the PSP you giving it a bit too much credit dude.

People concidered the GC to be weaker than the PS2 because Nintendo themselves said "hey, We probably dont have the strongest system but it will still do great things." They wanted play down the graphical aspects of the machine themselves so they could focus on gameplay which has always been their mantra.

The DS is respectable, there's nothing wrong with it being "only" as powerful as a N64.
 
[quote name='Alpha2']If you;re trying to say you think the DS will be as powerful as the PSP you giving it a bit too much credit dude.

People concidered the GC to be weaker than the PS2 because Nintendo themselves said "hey, We probably dont have the strongest system but it will still do great things." They wanted play down the graphical aspects of the machine themselves so they could focus on gameplay which has always been their mantra.

The DS is respectable, there's nothing wrong with it being "only" as powerful as a N64.[/quote]

No I'm not saying that....First post:

Now it is very obvious that the PSP has the edge when it comes to graphics but how big is the actual margain? It is also obvious in terms of specs but....
 
[quote name='jkam']My main point though really is this:

It appears that the DS isn't being pushed to its graphically limitation at all. If you compare Super Mario 64 DS to say Metal Gear Acid...the difference isn't as big. I don't understand why game publishers tend to dummy down with Nintendo's hardware. People thought the PS2 was better than the Gamecube graphically early on but now seeing Resident Evil 4 and the new Zelda it is pretty obvious that it isn't. The Gameboy Advance also seems to get games that don't take full advantage of the hardware. That is why I am really intrested in seeing what pops up as these consoles age a bit.[/quote]

You make some good points and Metroid does look "PSP quality", but I don't think that Metal Gear Acid is a good game to demonstrate the PSP's graphical capabilities. The game that comes to mind when I think of why the PSP is far ahead in that department is GT4. It probably won't look as good as the PS2 version, but the DS would never be able to pull it off. Like I said earlier, if the DS wants to meet up visually with the PSP, it's going to have to be done with style. The Dreamcast was able to pull off some better-than-PS2 looking games because of this and when I look at games like Castlevania DS, I know that the DS will still be able to surprise us graphically.
 
I was thinking about this myself while playing the metroid demo. The scene with samus, for example, shows how well 3d "movies" can be rendered. I don't really understand why no developers are taking advantage of the touch screen AND the graphics the DS has to offer.

But the PSP definatley looks better in all ways.
 
First gen games arnt going to be a good determining factor, atleast not launch titles like MGA and Mario64.

But even then when you comparesome of the other things the systems can do there is a large gap. Metroid Hunters is NOT PSP quality, falls short in terms of texture quality and resolution as well as lighting and geometry. that's not to say it dosent look very good but it only looks as good as a last generation console game at it's best. MGA looks a lot better than MGS on the PS1.
 
psp destroy's ds in specs, I had them laying around my room somewhere, they had a comparison chart that i found. I'll post them tomorrow night when i find them. The colors that the psp can produce compared to ds in the screen alone is a difference of i believe about 16 million more. DS IMO is pathetic, i own one, and here it sits, next to my psp weeping while i play my THUG2 and Wipeout Pure :drool:


EDIT:

DS
ARM7 and ARM9 processors, with the ARM 7 running at 33MHz and the ARM 9 running at 67MHz. The device will sport 4MB of system RAM, and 32K of RAM for the ARMs 7 and 9, as well as 656K of VRAM

PSP
CPU: PSP CPU (System clock frequency 1~333MHz)
Main Memory: 32MB
Embedded DRAM: 4MB
Display: 4.3 inch, 16:9 widescreen TFT LCD
480 x 272 pixel (16.77 million colors)
(totally destrongilized DS's)

Screens:
DS
Top Screen: A backlit, 3-inch, semitransparent reflective TFT color LCD with 256 x 192 pixel resolution and .24 mm dot pitch, capable of displaying 260,000 colors

Touch Screen: Same specs as top screen, but with a transparent analog touch screen

PSP
Display: 4.3 inch, 16:9 widescreen TFT LCD
480 x 272 pixel (16.77 million colors)
 
As the original Playstation, Playstation 2 (and the Xbox for that matter) show... graphics simply don't matter. Success in the videogame industry relies on a lot more than this... something I'm sure all major players involved know.

Notice how Nintendo isn't pushing the 3D capabilities of the DS?

The DS is all about one thing, providing a videogame experience unlike anyother (to be melodramatic).

In essence... Sony's stance on the entire matter could be ass backwards. Instead of bringing portable gaming out of the "gaming ghetto", they are simply painting the ghetto up real nice and pretty, and putting a subpar movie theater in it.

Nintendo has essentially moved out of the ghetto, and into somewhere else entirely (whether thats good or bad is up to the market i suppose.)
 
hehehe by comparison Nintendo has moved into one of those weird "spaceage" condos with toilets that pop out of the wall and motion sensors that turn on the lights when you enter the room.
 
[quote name='Alpha2']hehehe by comparison Nintendo has moved into one of those weird "spaceage" condos with toilets that pop out of the wall and motion sensors that turn on the lights when you enter the room.[/quote]

No buttons anywhere... just all voice control. And of course in the bathroom would be the "3 seashells".
 
I think it comes down to what you perfer, N64/DS IMO has larger and less poly objects that seem to look more cartoony(not that I think this is bad or good). While PSP IMO has the smaller but in larger quantity polygons that give a more real feel to it(ditto my above comment). I think they were made for different crowds and thats just the way it is. We could say "hey well The orange is better because its more like a sphere so it's better then a apple" while others go "well the apple is better because I like red". The is no real winner in this type of VS because different people like different styles.
 
is this really a contest? just look at Ridge Racers for PSP and Ridge Racers for DS. PSP is obviously better. and you have to see Wipeout Pure. It looks better than most PS2 games. It even uses light bloom! i know the screen shots online look pixelated and blurry, but thats because the are taken directly off of the psp and transferred pixel by pixel onto a PC. PSP pixels are WAY smaller than PC pixels, and so it has an incredibly sharp picture. Between DS and PSP, PSP wins in the graphics departmen, no contest.
 
briefly speaking i dont know why so many people think ps2 is better than gamecube hardware wise, if you read the specs you will see who really is better.
 
The DS can't compete with the PSP it terms of visual punch...thats obvious to anyone who sees them.... But then again, it shouldn't have to.

The DS, like Nintendo's mantra, is about providing an alternative gaming experience. Alot of people like that, and alot of people (like me) have no interest in what Nintendo is offering.

I'd rather play GTA or Gran Turismo on a handheld...and not Mario this, Mario that....those touchy-feely games.

So far the DS system hasn't impressed me in the least.

But, I'm not anti-Nintendo. I just dont have any interest in what they are offering so far. When that changes, I'd consider looking into a Nintendo Handheld. But nintendo appears to be heading off in a direction that I simply choose not to follow.
 
I can't be;ieve this has gone on for so long. I think what the OP was saying was that he knows the PSP is better in the graphics department, but is the gap that large?

I think yes, it's larger than you think.
 
i think the psp has the potential to over shadow (though not by much) the ps2, where as it has been said, the ds may be able to pull off earlt dreamcast graphics someday. also take in to consideration the space difference between a ds cart and a umd. you cant paint the sistine chapel inside a garage
 
The margin will be bigger because the media and the hardware are better suited for better graphics than the DS.

The games will just continue looking better in the long run than the DS :p
 
[quote name='xlax311']is this really a contest? just look at Ridge Racers for PSP and Ridge Racers for DS. PSP is obviously better. and you have to see Wipeout Pure. It looks better than most PS2 games. It even uses light bloom! i know the screen shots online look pixelated and blurry, but thats because the are taken directly off of the psp and transferred pixel by pixel onto a PC. PSP pixels are WAY smaller than PC pixels, and so it has an incredibly sharp picture. Between DS and PSP, PSP wins in the graphics departmen, no contest.[/quote]

You signed up just to say that? Bravo. Now, how much is Sony paying you?
 
[quote name='Downhome']http://forums.gaming-age.com/showthread.php?t=39678[/quote]

Wow.... Very interesting link. The DS has more games? That's strange but sweet.
 
Someone should start a thread just to discuss that link. I would, but, eh, I'm lazy right now. :)

I thought some of you might like it though.

EDIT:

Screw it, I'll start the thread.
 
I just realized something.

The DS, by virtue of its graphics... really is the 3rd pillar for Nintendo. Who values graphics the most? Its not the hardcore... its the mainstream. ITs the "normal" gamers... ie not us.

Graphics don't matter for someone who hasnt played videogames for a while. The DS is targeted at these people. Why sacrifice battery life and increase complexity when the market you are targeting ("nongamers" or people who don't currntly play games) really wouldn't care about them or know the difference.

The GBE will have PSP level graphics (if not more), because thats going to be aimed at the current market. The DS isn't a stopgap or replacement of anysort... its a machine designed to capture an untapped portion of the market.
 
It kind of makes me wonder what the PSP 2 will be like. I mean if were this close to PS2 graphics now how long until we are at portable PS3 graphics? Maybe they'll just bypass all of that and have on screen characters grab you by the throat and attack you. Or maybe the person standing next to you is actually a video game character.
 
[quote name='jkam']It kind of makes me wonder what the PSP 2 will be like. I mean if were this close to PS2 graphics now how long until we are at portable PS3 graphics? Maybe they'll just bypass all of that and have on screen characters grab you by the throat and attack you. Or maybe the person standing next to you is actually a video game character.[/quote]

Hence Nintendo's stance with the Revolution. How much better can graphics get? The improvements are less noticable with each generation, so we can't rely on graphics forever.
 
As long as there's still a gap between realtime graphics and photorealismm graphics can always get a little better each gen.

Ultimately though, the next wave of improments will probably be to things like Physics and AI. It's also possible that by the time Sony is ready to release a PSP2 that it wont even be a PSP but instead some sort of super powered Blackberry or Sidekick with an improved control interface if at all possible.
 
[quote name='Rihan'][quote name='xlax311']is this really a contest? just look at Ridge Racers for PSP and Ridge Racers for DS. PSP is obviously better. and you have to see Wipeout Pure. It looks better than most PS2 games. It even uses light bloom! i know the screen shots online look pixelated and blurry, but thats because the are taken directly off of the psp and transferred pixel by pixel onto a PC. PSP pixels are WAY smaller than PC pixels, and so it has an incredibly sharp picture. Between DS and PSP, PSP wins in the graphics departmen, no contest.[/quote]

You signed up just to say that? Bravo. Now, how much is Sony paying you?[/quote]

no, not just to say that. and sony isn't paying me. look at the screen shots urself. even better, go to ign PSP and watcha wipeout pure video, then watch a nintendogs or watever video. the difference already is HUGE.
 
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