EA IS THE DEVIL!!!!! NO MORE ESPN FOOTBALL GAMES !!!

I think a lot of this hatred is misplaced.

EA did not buy out Sega or VC or anyone else associated with their games. EA is not preventing Sega from developing football games for future release. EA is not preventing Sega from releasing a higher quality football game next year or five years from now.

The NFL and NFLPA are not allowing Sega (and other developers) to use their teams, logos, and players by offering an exclusive license that would ultimately give everyone the shaft except for the winning bidder.

I know it's easy to hate EA since they now have control over the most coveted license in all of sports, but don't blame them because the NFL was willing to sell their license and they stepped up to the plate where other comanies did not. It very well could have been Sega or Microsoft that aquired this license.
 
I know it's easy to hate EA since they now have control over the most coveted license in all of sports, but don't blame them because the NFL was willing to sell their license and they stepped up to the plate where other comanies did not. It very well could have been Sega or Microsoft that aquired this license.

WRONG

It has already been made clear that EA harrassed the NFL until they gave in to the large amounts of cash being waved in their face and sold the license to them. The whole bidding nonsense was a ruse to make it all look kosher.
 
wow. LONG THREAD. I actually just finished reading all 23 pages.

Firstly, I don't see how any of you could defend EA or the NFL for this. Sure it is a good "business" decision, but it is bad for us consumers.

We don't know FOR SURE if this will lead to a decline in the quality of Madden games, but I am can almost guarentee that it will not increase the quality of the games. Why would a company, who is obviously more concered with their business standpoint rather than the consumer, spend more money to improve something they know will sell no matter what. The just lost a huge chunk of money on this deal, and are not going to spend more of it by trying to improve on something that will already sell as is. The only thing that kept them in check before was competition. Now there won't be much of that anymore.

Sure this doesn't stop SEGA or other companies from making football games, but they will all lack the "NFL" name in their games, which is a HUGE selling point. I work at a retail store and see alot of the 'mindless' gamers that would continue to buy Madden in the next 5 years no matter what. This decision probably won't affect us informed gamers because if we really wanted a SEGA football game, we could still buy it minus the NFL name (assuming they continue their football games).

However, this will greatly affect their profits negatively. I know many NFL fans will NOT be able to live 5 years without an official NFL game. I know right now you guys are saying that your NFL 2K5 will keep you busy for the next 5 years, but the announcement was just made. Just wait until next year when madden '06 comes out. Some of you might bite the bullet and get madden, others will be strong enough to boycott. But then after that, the next-gen consoles will be coming out. Everyone will have a sweet-looking madden 07 while you will still be playing your 2K5. Anyone who thinks they will skip football games for the next 5 years (and is a big NFL fan) try popping in a 1999 NFL game and playing that. Sooner or later, more and more people will bite the bullet and feel that their boycotting isn't working and will buy Madden.

Even if all the hardcore SEGA fans here do boycott EA, they still have enough madden fans already to support them. There aren't enough EA haters to affect them. The majority of gamers are uninformed. Most NFL uninformed gamers will buy madden and not question what happened to SEGA's 2K series.

I will not be buying madden, but I have never bought madden in the past so it will not affect them. I will, however, be boycotting all EA games in general. As of now, there are no EA games I can think of that are worth my money. However, at worst, if there is a good enough game, I will buy it used. Of course, over time this may change. I feel the same way towards microsoft and try to avoid their products as much as possible. Problem is, all my computers have windows xp loaded on them complete with microsoft office. IMO, it is pretty much the only convenient choice for me although I hate to support a company who has such a strong hold in the PC OS market. The only alternatives that I can think of is Macintosh (which, AFAIK, doesn't support many games. Might be different with the new models), or Linux, which is unnecessarily complex for me.

I am really interested in seeing what SEGA will do to retaliate. I have faith that they will not just roll over and let EA push them out of the football industry.


This is all just my thoughts and is certainly not fact.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Why would a company, who is obviously more concered with their business standpoint rather than the consumer, spend more money to improve something they know will sell no matter what. [/quote]

Dude, every company on the planet is more concerned with their business standpoint rather than the consumer. Even the ones who claim they're more concerned about the consumer really aren't. It's all about profits and dollars, and if it takes pissing off a fanbase to get the money, a company will do it without hesitation.
 
EA used to make good games, Madden is cool. But ESPN for $20 (or less) ruled them. Why pay $50 for a game a lot of people buy every year? Look how fast Madden 2005 came down in price! EA swooped in and offered the NFL a buttload of money. Trying to stop this stuff. Next year Madden 2006 is $55 (or some shit like that) until Madden 2009.
 
[quote name='mmn'][quote name='dpatel']Why would a company, who is obviously more concered with their business standpoint rather than the consumer, spend more money to improve something they know will sell no matter what. [/quote]

Dude, every company on the planet is more concerned with their business standpoint rather than the consumer. Even the ones who claim they're more concerned about the consumer really aren't. It's all about profits and dollars, and if it takes pissing off a fanbase to get the money, a company will do it without hesitation.[/quote]
Yes, but quality is a major selling point. Now they have no reason to care about the consumer, or quality, because they're the only NFL game on the market. They literally do not have to care how good the game is. There is no reason for them to invest more money into the game, since they've already invested a ton of money into the NFL licensing, and it won't really affect sales. The only reason they would care, is if they cared about the consumer. And you just stated that they don't.
 
I hope some major site's reviewer has the chutzpah to make Madden 06's full review just "Does it matter? What choice do you have?"
 
[quote name='dafoomie'][quote name='mmn'][quote name='dpatel']Why would a company, who is obviously more concered with their business standpoint rather than the consumer, spend more money to improve something they know will sell no matter what. [/quote]

Dude, every company on the planet is more concerned with their business standpoint rather than the consumer. Even the ones who claim they're more concerned about the consumer really aren't. It's all about profits and dollars, and if it takes pissing off a fanbase to get the money, a company will do it without hesitation.[/quote]
Yes, but quality is a major selling point. Now they have no reason to care about the consumer, or quality, because they're the only NFL game on the market. They literally do not have to care how good the game is. There is no reason for them to invest more money into the game, since they've already invested a ton of money into the NFL licensing, and it won't really affect sales. The only reason they would care, is if they cared about the consumer. And you just stated that they don't.[/quote]

Example: Windows 3.0, 95, 98, ME, 2000, XP
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Yes, but quality is a major selling point. Now they have no reason to care about the consumer, or quality, because they're the only NFL game on the market. They literally do not have to care how good the game is. There is no reason for them to invest more money into the game, since they've already invested a ton of money into the NFL licensing, and it won't really affect sales. The only reason they would care, is if they cared about the consumer. And you just stated that they don't.[/quote]

No, the only reason they would put more money into making it a better game is to SELL MORE COPIES. How does that not make sense to you? They know Madden fans are already going to buy it, now they have to appeal to ESPN fans and casual fans who are only sort of into football games. They have to produce a GREAT game in order to get more people to buy it. You think EA is satisfied with just Madden fans buying the game every year? They want every person with a console to own a copy of Madden.

Like you said, they invested a ton of money into the NFL liscensing, so they'll need to get more people to buy their game to justify it.

The NFL license is the same as, say, the Lord of the Rings license. Nobody else can make LOTR games, EA owns the rights. And while the LOTR RPG wasn't a huge smash, most of the EA LOTR games were pretty good and you could see them get better with each release, from Fellowship to Two Towers to ROTK. Did they NEED to improve on those games? Not really. LOTR fans would've bought them anyhow. They would've had to - nobody else was making LOTR games. But they improved on them to get people who may not be that into LOTR, to appeal to a more diverse userbase.

You are speculating on things that you feel MAY happen. This is the fact : Madden has had improvements made to it EVERY year since it was started, and there's no reason for them to suddenly stop improving it, especially when they have the attention of the entire football video game fanbase.
 
[quote name='mmn'][quote name='dafoomie']Yes, but quality is a major selling point. Now they have no reason to care about the consumer, or quality, because they're the only NFL game on the market. They literally do not have to care how good the game is. There is no reason for them to invest more money into the game, since they've already invested a ton of money into the NFL licensing, and it won't really affect sales. The only reason they would care, is if they cared about the consumer. And you just stated that they don't.[/quote]

No, the only reason they would put more money into making it a better game is to SELL MORE COPIES. How does that not make sense to you? They know Madden fans are already going to buy it, now they have to appeal to ESPN fans and casual fans who are only sort of into football games. They have to produce a GREAT game in order to get more people to buy it. You think EA is satisfied with just Madden fans buying the game every year? They want every person with a console to own a copy of Madden.

Like you said, they invested a ton of money into the NFL liscensing, so they'll need to get more people to buy their game to justify it.

The NFL license is the same as, say, the Lord of the Rings license. Nobody else can make LOTR games, EA owns the rights. And while the LOTR RPG wasn't a huge smash, most of the EA LOTR games were pretty good and you could see them get better with each release, from Fellowship to Two Towers to ROTK. Did they NEED to improve on those games? Not really. LOTR fans would've bought them anyhow. They would've had to - nobody else was making LOTR games. But they improved on them to get people who may not be that into LOTR, to appeal to a more diverse userbase.

You are speculating on things that you feel MAY happen. This is the fact : Madden has had improvements made to it EVERY year since it was started, and there's no reason for them to suddenly stop improving it, especially when they have the attention of the entire football video game fanbase.[/quote]
More than one company does make LOTR games. EA only licenses the movies, other companies license the books. Besides, this is not the same thing. Sports licensing can't be compared to everything else, because its never been totally exclusive.

Do you really think that people who aren't otherwise going to buy an NFL game are going to buy Madden if they make it a lot better next year? Improving the game a great deal will not seriously impact sales. They'll make the little incremental improvements that they usually do. ESPN could have pushed them to make a really great game. Instead of spending money on that, they spent it on making sure Sega can't make an NFL game.

easmall.gif
 
I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if anyone has made this point, but it appears that the NFL has shot itself in the foot with this deal. Sure, they are making a lot of money right nowl, but what about 5 years from now when the contract ends? By that point, there likely won't be any competition left in the market. If there is no competition for a licensing deal, the value of any such deal will be significantly lower.
 
[quote name='dwsscs']

Example: Windows 3.0, 95, 98, ME, 2000, XP[/quote]

now THATS an analogy!

3.1 to 95 was a big jump...2000 to xp wasnt a big change but it elminated the dos os.

98 is still the best.
 
[quote name='mmn'][quote name='dafoomie']Yes, but quality is a major selling point. Now they have no reason to care about the consumer, or quality, because they're the only NFL game on the market. They literally do not have to care how good the game is. There is no reason for them to invest more money into the game, since they've already invested a ton of money into the NFL licensing, and it won't really affect sales. The only reason they would care, is if they cared about the consumer. And you just stated that they don't.[/quote]

No, the only reason they would put more money into making it a better game is to SELL MORE COPIES. How does that not make sense to you? They know Madden fans are already going to buy it, now they have to appeal to ESPN fans and casual fans who are only sort of into football games. They have to produce a GREAT game in order to get more people to buy it. You think EA is satisfied with just Madden fans buying the game every year? They want every person with a console to own a copy of Madden.

Like you said, they invested a ton of money into the NFL liscensing, so they'll need to get more people to buy their game to justify it.

The NFL license is the same as, say, the Lord of the Rings license. Nobody else can make LOTR games, EA owns the rights. And while the LOTR RPG wasn't a huge smash, most of the EA LOTR games were pretty good and you could see them get better with each release, from Fellowship to Two Towers to ROTK. Did they NEED to improve on those games? Not really. LOTR fans would've bought them anyhow. They would've had to - nobody else was making LOTR games. But they improved on them to get people who may not be that into LOTR, to appeal to a more diverse userbase.

You are speculating on things that you feel MAY happen. This is the fact : Madden has had improvements made to it EVERY year since it was started, and there's no reason for them to suddenly stop improving it, especially when they have the attention of the entire football video game fanbase.[/quote]

Why would they have to prove something to the ESPN fans. Most of them will jump ship to madden right away because there is no other alternative. They would rather have something that is not as good, in their opinions, than nothing at all. They have no one to compete against.
 
[quote name='mmn']
How, for you, then, will it be improved? Humor me, will ya?

myke.

Alright.

To me, if ESPN had stayed and kept pumping out games at $20, Madden's quality would've declined.

See, to remain competitive, and cost effective, EA would've done things like cut Madden's staff and put less hours of work into the game. Yes, EA probably would've released Madden at $50, but you saw how fast it dropped to $20 this year (about 3 months, the way I figure it) when last year it stayed at $50 well past the Superbowl.

In order to save money on the production aspect of Madden, who knows how far EA would've gone. I really like EA as a company, because they make good games, but I realize all they care about is how profitable their games are, especially their biggest game.

[/quote]

Actually, to reamin competitive, they would do the exact opposite. If they were to put less work into each madden in order to 'save money', people would realize that for a cheaper price, they could get a game that gets more work put into it every year. Eventually people would jump ship to SEGA leaving EA with less profit every year. It would cost them more to stay competitive, but in the long run it would definetly help them out.

[quote name='mmn']
Now that they have exclusivity, they don't have to worry about the monkey on their back in ESPN. They can calm down, add as much staff as they need, and really get to work on making a great game. Now they NEED to make improvements to Madden, because they have to convince the ESPN audience to play their game. They need the ESPN audience to justify the cost of paying the NFL a ridiculous amount of money for the exclusivity. That's why its my belief that they'll try to appeal to everyone by making solid improvements in almost every aspect of the game.

People have always said ESPN has better presentation while Madden has better gameplay, and that if you could combine the two, you'd have damn near a perfect football game. Well, now there's nothing to stop EA from doing this. Obviously EA has no problems copying an idea (look at the LOTR RPG thats almost a direct clone of Final Fantasy). Imagine if they incorporated the whole "Monday Night Football" aura into the game more. Maybe they get together with ESPN and go "hey, now that you aren't able to work with Sega anymore, you could throw support behind Madden". So then, maybe, just maybe, you get things like Chris Berman doing his halftime show on EA's game. You get the idea.

There's really nothing holding back EA now from making the best football game we've ever seen, because they now have all the power. See, unlike most people in this thread, I don't expect them to drop the ball - they didn't let me down with the LOTR franchise, the Burnout franchise, etc etc. I'm optimistic this will end up being a good thing for gamers and I'm convinced all this complaining is simply because people on these forums won't be able to buy a brand new football game for $20 next year. [/quote]

With the Burnout franchise, they still had competition. There were other racing games out there, its not like they were the only one. I know there will still be other football games, but people who play games like NFL 2K, Madden, etc. play it for the realism. They don't want an arcady style game, and taking away the NFL license will take ALOT of the realism out of it.

[quote name='mmn']
Now you probably still aren't going to give Madden a shot next year, which is fine, but at least try to be a little more positive and don't shit all over EA before the game is even released. If Madden comes out next year and sucks badly, feel free to write complaint letters and boycott and all that you want to do. But at least let them make the game first.
[/quote]

I am basing my opinions purely on speculation. MOST companies would put less effort in a game that they know will already sell because of no competition. But none of us know 100% if this is true with Madden. Even if the game doesn't suck though, I still don't agree with their decision to go exclusive. Most people are NOT against the Madden series in this thread, they are just angered by the fact that EA bought their way out of competition instead of actually competing.
 
You're just playing Devil's Advocate now man. Anything I say you're just going to flip it back around. No more point in discussing this.
 
[quote name='mmn']You're just playing Devil's Advocate now man. Anything I say you're just going to flip it back around. No more point in discussing this.[/quote]

actually the same thing could be said about you. But this argument is going nowhere. There is no way we can tell what the future of NFL games holds. Let's just leave it at that.
 
[quote name='dpatel']wow. LONG THREAD. I actually just finished reading all 23 pages.

Firstly, I don't see how any of you could defend EA or the NFL for this. Sure it is a good "business" decision, but it is bad for us consumers.

We don't know FOR SURE if this will lead to a decline in the quality of Madden games, but I am can almost guarentee that it will not increase the quality of the games. Why would a company, who is obviously more concered with their business standpoint rather than the consumer, spend more money to improve something they know will sell no matter what. The just lost a huge chunk of money on this deal, and are not going to spend more of it by trying to improve on something that will already sell as is. The only thing that kept them in check before was competition. Now there won't be much of that anymore.

Sure this doesn't stop SEGA or other companies from making football games, but they will all lack the "NFL" name in their games, which is a HUGE selling point. I work at a retail store and see alot of the 'mindless' gamers that would continue to buy Madden in the next 5 years no matter what. This decision probably won't affect us informed gamers because if we really wanted a SEGA football game, we could still buy it minus the NFL name (assuming they continue their football games).

However, this will greatly affect their profits negatively. I know many NFL fans will NOT be able to live 5 years without an official NFL game. I know right now you guys are saying that your NFL 2K5 will keep you busy for the next 5 years, but the announcement was just made. Just wait until next year when madden '06 comes out. Some of you might bite the bullet and get madden, others will be strong enough to boycott. But then after that, the next-gen consoles will be coming out. Everyone will have a sweet-looking madden 07 while you will still be playing your 2K5. Anyone who thinks they will skip football games for the next 5 years (and is a big NFL fan) try popping in a 1999 NFL game and playing that. Sooner or later, more and more people will bite the bullet and feel that their boycotting isn't working and will buy Madden.

Even if all the hardcore SEGA fans here do boycott EA, they still have enough madden fans already to support them. There aren't enough EA haters to affect them. The majority of gamers are uninformed. Most NFL uninformed gamers will buy madden and not question what happened to SEGA's 2K series.

I will not be buying madden, but I have never bought madden in the past so it will not affect them. I will, however, be boycotting all EA games in general. As of now, there are no EA games I can think of that are worth my money. However, at worst, if there is a good enough game, I will buy it used. Of course, over time this may change. I feel the same way towards microsoft and try to avoid their products as much as possible. Problem is, all my computers have windows xp loaded on them complete with microsoft office. IMO, it is pretty much the only convenient choice for me although I hate to support a company who has such a strong hold in the PC OS market. The only alternatives that I can think of is Macintosh (which, AFAIK, doesn't support many games. Might be different with the new models), or Linux, which is unnecessarily complex for me.

I am really interested in seeing what SEGA will do to retaliate. I have faith that they will not just roll over and let EA push them out of the football industry.


This is all just my thoughts and is certainly not fact.[/quote]

Actually Patel on the old games point I disagree with you. This generation of systems is like the SNES of 3D, perhaps better depending on the system. Well this brings me to my point. When NFL2K first came out THAT make the graphical jump that made everyone say "WOW!" not Madden 2001. In 3D for a Football game I mean. I honestly don't think we'll be as wowed with Madden 2007 as you think.
Honestly I hope Sega secures the NBA license or just puts up a hell of a fight to prevent EA from getting it. The second I'd honestly be just fine with although it would be nice if Sega had the license secured for a year or two so they'd get Live fans trying it.
Oh and on EA's games most I could care less about. I only have Alice, Undying, Two Towers and played Majestic. I'm interested in Medal Of Honor and Burnout 3 but that's about it. Also on the topic of EA and Burnout 3 that's a mute point since I think Burnout 3 was pretty far in development anyway.
On the subject of Renderware if EA tries to overcharge I hope Sega and Rockstar and whoever else has used the tool just pass on it and both collaborate to make a new development tool or something.
 
^^ That's true. The jump from PS1/N64/Saturn to PS2/DC/XBOX/GCN will be greater than the jump from now to next-gen consoles. But have you seen some of the pics? Those are just from launch games, it can only get better.
 
[quote name='dpatel']^^ That's true. The jump from PS1/N64/Saturn to PS2/DC/XBOX/GCN will be greater than the jump from now to next-gen consoles. But have you seen some of the pics? Those are just from launch games, it can only get better.[/quote]

I doubt I'm enough of a graphic whore to care. Or at least enough of one to not go back. You wanna see something PAINFUL look at pics of DWVII.
 
[quote name='Sarang01'][quote name='dpatel']^^ That's true. The jump from PS1/N64/Saturn to PS2/DC/XBOX/GCN will be greater than the jump from now to next-gen consoles. But have you seen some of the pics? Those are just from launch games, it can only get better.[/quote]

I doubt I'm enough of a graphic whore to care. Or at least enough of one to not go back. You wanna see something PAINFUL look at pics of DWVII.[/quote]

Take a look at a pic of Madden on the DS, it's just horrible when it's not in motion. One guy's helmet looked like an "L", it was just that ugly. Just take a look.
 
[quote name='BLarR']Goddam EA to farking hell! I really hope Sega flips 'em off and starts making mutant league football games.[/quote]

It's been said a few times before that EA has MLF.
 
[quote name='ToddlerTN']I wonder how long it will be before EA buys the ESPN license, too.[/quote]
Damn, I called it over a month ago. That's nuts.
 
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