eBay situation - Question about closing an eBay dispute

[GLOCKGLOCK]

Looking for some guidance from people that buy on ebay and have had disputes in the past. I was looking for a new or used copy of the Forza 3 Ultimate collection. It has all the DLC on disc and 3 pieces of DLC on a code card: Stig's Garage Car Pack, a Top Gear Video download and a Top Gear/Forza premium theme. Found a used copy and messaged the buyer if the codes were included and unused. He replied that they were. So I win the auction and get the game and sure enough the code card has been opened and the Stig's Garage Car Pack code has already been used. I contact the seller and he tell me:

I never said it was unused i just said it was included, i havnt used it on my xbox live account. What cars do you want from that dlc. A refund can be available but the buyer pays shipping. Game cost 15$ you will be losing 2/3 of the $ it cost for the game over some dlc cars? Let me know what you would like to do?

What should I do here? Just request a partial refund? Escalate it via ebay/paypal due to him misrepresenting the item? Just leave a negative and move on?

Though I would like to have the Car Pack DLC, the fact that the seller lied about the code being unused is what really gets me. Also not sure if it matters or not but this guy has 1 feedback. I probably should have stayed away and just bought it new from Amazon for a a little bit more, but I guess the CAG in me needed to get the best deal available.


6/10/2011 UPDATE -

Just wanted to update everyone and continue to ask for guidance on what I should do here.

After the seller did not respond to my request for a partial refund from Monday, I re-sent the same message asking for a refund on Wednesday. I never received a response so I decided to file the eBay dispute this morning. Not surprisingly the seller responded to one of my previous messages within 20 minutes of filing the dispute.

I take it from his message that he has decided to take the intimidation/shame route with this to try to get his way in the dispute. I'll just post the last few messages and post the response I received today:

SELLER'S response that made me want to believe he wanted to work things out:

im saying instead of ship it back let me know what you were looking to get out from the codes, i can prb add microsoft points to your account to just download the dlc. Its a waste of your money just to send it back over a couple cars.

MY RESPONSE TO to try to get a discussion going:

Hello, I sent you the following message a couple days ago about this dispute. Can you please take a look at it and get back to me? I'd like to clear this up. Thank you.

Yes, I would prefer a partial refund instead of having to send the game back. Unfortunately this car pack cannot be purchased in the xbox live marketplace. The only way to get the car pack is via the code that comes with the ultimate edition of the game. Normal car packs cost between 400-800 microsoft points ($5-$10) so I would suggest we split the difference and the refund is $7.50 via paypal. If that is acceptable please process the refund via paypal. Thank you!

SELLER'S response to the dispute I filed:

I will say it again dude, stop sending me emails complaining if you have a problem. Please give me a call xxx xxx xxxx, but i still am beside me in the fact that you are freaking out and demanding a refund over a car pack that i was unsure if it worked or not. People sell stuff on ebay because its used. Do you understand that. I said like new. Which the game is. I had no idea that whether the car pack had been used or not. I offered you a week ago a refund gave you your options and you accepted the game. You have played it, and it is wrong and dishonest of you to return it after playing it. I have been very generous with the fact that im not ignoring you and trying to work this out. but playing the game for a week then opening an ebay case for a refund is dishonest and wrong. I take it your a child because a grown adult would not be acting this way and realize that he is taking advantage of a system. That game cost 29.99 in stores that is how much i paid brand new in the plastic wrap. I never used the code, i will even allow you to log into my gamertag to check my download history. I dont know whether someone else has or maybe the codes were never activated. Did you think of that? but thats beside the point the point is you paid half price and are bitching and demanding a refund for something that was described exactly what it is. If i dont recieve a phone call at xxx xxx xxxx by the end of today June 10, i will no longer be willing to work this out. I took time out of my day to drive across town to mail this stupid game to you. i have a real problem when other people wasting my money because they are unsatisified in the way they spent theirs.

At this point I am not inclined to call this guy back or even respond to his claims in another message. He has demonstrated again and again that he lied about the status of the codes and at this point I'd rather just let eBay make the call on things. Do you guys think I should do anything differently? I cannot see any additional dialogue making this any better.

eBay asked for my phone number while filing the dispute, do they normally place a call or just do their investigation and follow ups via email or PMs. Also I asked that they do not give my number to the seller

6/12/2011 UPDATE:

Ok, well I guess that once the seller's paypal account was put on hold due to the dispute they decided to change their tune.

They offered me a paypal refund via the dispute system. It says they will process the refund within 3 days. He was also very apologetic in a PM to me, saying he would accept whatever feedback I decided to give him. In a way it seems almost a bit too good to be true. After dealing this this guy for the past few weeks I have to say I am beyond surprised.

Sorry again if this is a common sense question, but am I safe accepting the refund and closing the case at this point? It says the seller still has to process the refund on his own, but I'm just wary that they could still pull some funny business especially after out of the blue deciding to back off of their hardline stance and offer the full refund amount that I requested.

NOTE: He also made mention that he was a "poor college student trying to sell some games to pay rent and some bills" Could he possibly take all the funds out of the paypal account and close it and screw me out of the refund after I accept and it closes the ebay dispute?

Thanks again for your responses!

 

[thelonepig]

You could file with ebay and likely win. You will have to pay return shipping, but you'll get a full refund from the seller. It sounds like it'll be a better deal than what s/he is offering.

If it's not worth the time and hassle with ebay, just leave a negative and move on.

 

[willIbeav]

I manage the eBay efforts for a local, quickly growing chain of pawn shops. We sell over 300 items every month and I have had more than my fair share of experience with eBay's dispute process. There are two factors that should weigh in on your decision here.

The first factor is the seller's return policy. Sellers do not have to accept returns (in theory), but they must define their policy in their auctions. Though the seller's approach sounds unprofessional, they might be letting you know that they do accept returns but at the buyer's expense. Via the seller's return policy or an eBay dispute, you are going to be short return shipping either way.

The second thing to consider is that it seems like the buyer intentionally mislead you about their item. This is where eBay's dispute process comes in handy. The dispute process--so I have been told--was designed to help buyers when a seller fails to communicate or when they fail to abide by policy. By submitting a dispute, you may have to cover the return shipping expense, but you will also place a negative ding against the seller's account without having to leave a Negative Feedback. Sellers are only allowed so many open disputes, unresolved cases (escalated disputes) and low DSR ratings before eBay begins limiting their ability to sell, lowering the search rankings and ultimately banning them from the site.

I can't make the decision for you, but I hope this helps you understand your choices and their results.

 

[Kylearan]

Joy, I just love sellers like this. You still have the email/eBay message that says the DLC was included and unused, yes?

If you have any intention of sending this back, you definitely want to escalate with eBay/Paypal. You do NOT want to send this back without filing (and winning) a dispute. The seller's return policy is irrelevant in this regard - if he misrepresented, it doesn't matter whether he says returns are accepted or not: eBay/Paypal will force the issue.

How valuable are the DLC items? You could potentially, Seller willing, make this easy by quoting/forwarding your contact with him saying the DLC was included and unused, say that's the only reason you bought it from him and not someone else, point out the cost of the DLC (how much you'd have to spend to acquire it) and request a refund of that amount.

I honestly doubt he'll go for it, but sometimes getting a neutral feedback (from the other guy) can motivate a bad seller to go out of his way to make things right with someone who might leave another neutral or negative, effectively wiping out their eBay seller account before it even starts.

Try to negotiate restitution. Failing that, file a claim and request restitution - include your contact with the Seller. It should be possible to get the cost/value of the DLC without returning the game (though I can't guarantee that, obviously). Worst case scenario: you win the dispute and are out a few bucks sending the game back via First Class with Delivery Confirmation. (Also, make sure you take a picture of you putting the game in an envelope with the Delivery Confirmation number clearly displayed. Nothing like photo evidence to assist.)

Good luck!

 

[Potatoeman]

Sorry to hear about this, bud. Jerk sellers is what makes amazon and ebay stupid to deal with.

Thankfully, Kylearan pointed out exactly what you should do. I hope the guy gets what for, if nothing else comes from this.

 

[GLOCKGLOCK]

Thanks for the help everyone. Just a few other facts. Thee seller has on their auction that they do not accept returns for their items. Although with someone who hasn't sold a lot on ebay I'm guessing he just used the default options when listing. I'm also sure he just threw out the fact I would lose what I paid for shipping and have to pay the return shipping to discourage me from pursuing anything further.

As for the communication with the seller, I asked him prior to bidding:

Does this include the unused codes for all the top gear cars and content?

He replies:

It does

I think that is pretty clear that he is confirming that the codes are all included and have not been used. I'm sure he didn't even check them and since he is a new and/or dishonest seller on ebay he didn't think it would matter or he just assumed buyers wouldn't care.

As for the content, it isn't available for sale on the marketplace so the only way to get the car pack is to buy the Ultimate Platinum Hits version and redeem the included codes. I sent him a message back today and said I would accept a partial refund so I guess we will see. These car packs normally cost $5 or so on the marketplace. If that refund was offered I'd probably just take it, buy a new copy from amazon and move on. Who knows if the seller will go for it though as the refund is 33% of the selling price and he already accused me of making a fuss about "a few dlc cars".

 

[nddave]

+1
What i would do is pretty much the same as others.
Explain to them that you bought it with the understanding that the codes where unused as a used code is worthless
Ask for a partial (amount that the DLC is) see what happens
If not file a claim under the product was not as described
At best he gets a neutral he clearly knew you wanted UNUSED CODES

 

[slidecage]

good luck winning a case with DLC ..

the seller can say the BUYER used the code and now is trying to get their cash back...

you have little or no protecting on DLC items

 

[confoosious]

that fact that he thinks "included" doesn't mean it hasn't been used means he's a shady piece of work. I'd file the dispute with ebay.

 

[GLOCKGLOCK]

Just to update, the seller sent me a message yesterday that sounded like he would like to work something out that doesn't involve sending the game back. I sent him a refund amount that I had in mind. I guess I'll see what he comes back with.

If he ends up coming through with the refund, where do I go with feedback here? No way he is getting a positive after lying about the status of the DLC codes. Is a Neutral fair or would you guys hit him with a negative?

 

[willIbeav]

You can leave a Neutral Feedback and a low DSR rating for Item As Described. There is a 1 to 5 scale for each DSR category, but anything less than a perfect 5 is a failing grade on eBay.

 

[sgr76]

I would just try to resolve this with the seller. Don't forget about their policy on digital items. This might fall into that gray area

 

[mindatlarge]

[quote name='GLOCKGLOCK']Thanks for the help everyone. Just a few other facts. Thee seller has on their auction that they do not accept returns for their items. Although with someone who hasn't sold a lot on ebay I'm guessing he just used the default options when listing. I'm also sure he just threw out the fact I would lose what I paid for shipping and have to pay the return shipping to discourage me from pursuing anything further.

As for the communication with the seller, I asked him prior to bidding:

He replies:
I think that is pretty clear that he is confirming that the codes are all included and have not been used. I'm sure he didn't even check them and since he is a new and/or dishonest seller on ebay he didn't think it would matter or he just assumed buyers wouldn't care.

As for the content, it isn't available for sale on the marketplace so the only way to get the car pack is to buy the Ultimate Platinum Hits version and redeem the included codes. I sent him a message back today and said I would accept a partial refund so I guess we will see. These car packs normally cost $5 or so on the marketplace. If that refund was offered I'd probably just take it, buy a new copy from amazon and move on. Who knows if the seller will go for it though as the refund is 33% of the selling price and he already accused me of making a fuss about "a few dlc cars".[/QUOTE]

The default is "accept returns" so this seller chose not to allow returns, which sometimes can be a red flag. The buyer has all the power on Ebay, start a dispute "item not as described" and most likely you will end up with the game and a refund.

 

[crzyjoeguy]

[quote name='slidecage']good luck winning a case with DLC ..

the seller can say the BUYER used the code and now is trying to get their cash back...

you have little or no protecting on DLC items[/QUOTE]

yeah but the buyer can say the SELLER used the code before sending it. ebay sides with the buyer regardless (normally) . and since he has two emails, one saying it includes the codes, and one saying "i never said the codes work" ... yeah i think he is good to file a dispute.

 

[mrright4you4now]

It would be interesting to see how ebay would side if you were to escalate it to them. On one hand he did say it includes the dlc but on the other hand it wasn't in the item description. Ebay doesn't technically allow the selling of dlc so I don't know what their stance is on buying used games with dlc. I would just stick with trying to get the $5 back

 

[GLOCKGLOCK]

Well the seller apparently has decided to ignore the message I sent on Monday about the refund. I'll give them 24 hours to respond and open a dispute with ebay/paypal tomorrow morning. Thanks again for all the help everyone, I'll keep you posted on how this progresses.

 

[GLOCKGLOCK]

Just wanted to update everyone and continue to ask for guidance on what I should do here.

After the seller did not respond to my request for a partial refund from Monday, I re-sent the same message asking for a refund on Wednesday. I never received a response so I decided to file the eBay dispute this morning. Not surprisingly the seller responded to one of my previous messages within 20 minutes of filing the dispute.

I take it from his message that he has decided to take the intimidation/shame route with this to try to get his way in the dispute. I'll just post the last few messages and post the response I received today:

SELLER'S response that made me want to believe he wanted to work things out:

im saying instead of ship it back let me know what you were looking to get out from the codes, i can prb add microsoft points to your account to just download the dlc. Its a waste of your money just to send it back over a couple cars.

MY RESPONSE to try to get a discussion going:

Hello, I sent you the following message a couple days ago about this dispute. Can you please take a look at it and get back to me? I'd like to clear this up. Thank you.

Yes, I would prefer a partial refund instead of having to send the game back. Unfortunately this car pack cannot be purchased in the xbox live marketplace. The only way to get the car pack is via the code that comes with the ultimate edition of the game. Normal car packs cost between 400-800 microsoft points ($5-$10) so I would suggest we split the difference and the refund is $7.50 via paypal. If that is acceptable please process the refund via paypal. Thank you!

SELLER'S response to the dispute I filed:

I will say it again dude, stop sending me emails complaining if you have a problem. Please give me a call xxx xxx xxxx, but i still am beside me in the fact that you are freaking out and demanding a refund over a car pack that i was unsure if it worked or not. People sell stuff on ebay because its used. Do you understand that. I said like new. Which the game is. I had no idea that whether the car pack had been used or not. I offered you a week ago a refund gave you your options and you accepted the game. You have played it, and it is wrong and dishonest of you to return it after playing it. I have been very generous with the fact that im not ignoring you and trying to work this out. but playing the game for a week then opening an ebay case for a refund is dishonest and wrong. I take it your a child because a grown adult would not be acting this way and realize that he is taking advantage of a system. That game cost 29.99 in stores that is how much i paid brand new in the plastic wrap. I never used the code, i will even allow you to log into my gamertag to check my download history. I dont know whether someone else has or maybe the codes were never activated. Did you think of that? but thats beside the point the point is you paid half price and are bitching and demanding a refund for something that was described exactly what it is. If i dont recieve a phone call at xxx xxx xxxx by the end of today June 10, i will no longer be willing to work this out. I took time out of my day to drive across town to mail this stupid game to you. i have a real problem when other people wasting my money because they are unsatisified in the way they spent theirs.

At this point I am not inclined to call this guy back or even respond to his claims in another message. He has demonstrated again and again that he lied about the status of the codes and at this point I'd rather just let eBay make the call on things. Do you guys think I should do anything differently? I cannot see any additional dialogue making this any better.

eBay asked for my phone number while filing the dispute, do they normally place a call or just do their investigation and follow ups via email or PMs. Also I asked that they do not give my number to the seller.

Thanks as always for all the guidance!

 

[GLOCKGLOCK]

Ok, well I guess that once the seller's paypal account was put on hold due to the dispute they decided to change their tune. :lol:

They offered me a paypal refund via the dispute system. It says they will process the refund within 3 days. He was also very apologetic in a PM to me, saying he would accept whatever feedback I decided to give him. In a way it seems almost a bit too good to be true. After dealing this this guy for the past few weeks I have to say I am beyond surprised.

Sorry again if this is a common sense question, but am I safe accepting the refund and closing the case at this point? It says the seller still has to process the refund on his own, but I'm just wary that they could still pull some funny business especially after out of the blue deciding to back off of their hardline stance and offer the full refund amount that I requested.

NOTE: He also made mention that he was a "poor college student trying to sell some games to pay rent and some bills" Could he possibly take all the funds out of the paypal account and close it and screw me out of the refund after I accept and it closes the ebay dispute?

Thanks again for your responses!

 

[diablodeltoro]

i think since his acct is on hold he can't take funds out, but don't close it until you get what you're suppose to get

 

[thelonepig]

Agreed. Don't close the dispute until it is resolved to your satisfaction.

 

[GLOCKGLOCK]

[quote name='diablodeltoro']i think since his acct is on hold he can't take funds out, but don't close it until you get what you're suppose to get[/QUOTE]

Yea, the wording in the email from eBay was a bit misleading. It says "If you accept the offer the case will be closed and you won't be eligible for an additional refund" but the case actually stays open until the refund is received. The email made it sound like it was instantly closed when you accept.

Keeping my fingers crossed that I'll get my refund shortly and can put this behind me.

 

[DarkRider23]

Neg him, please.

 

[GLOCKGLOCK]

[quote name='DarkRider23']Neg him, please.[/QUOTE]

Yea, that is the plan. I wouldn't wish this type of experience on anyone else, especially other CAGs. The only reason I haven't left a negative yet is because even though he changed his tune and was very apologetic in his last message I still feel that he is going to try weasel out of refunding me somehow. #

 

[thesuzukimethod]

I would argue to be fair, not vindictive (in terms of feedback, moving forward, etc).

It's entirely possible that he didnt pay as close of attention to the details as he should have, but he is right in the sense that this is a lot of time/effort/hassle over a DLC code (on both your parts). (i'm not saying you're wrong, just that the time spent dealing with this is worth - or rather costs you both - something)

Ebay (and amazon used) is(are) notorious for siding with dispute filing buyers (i've been there on some shady shady claims filed by buyers on items that were too inexpensive to be worth it - in terms of time/money i'd have been better off had i thrown the item away then put it on ebay - and this weighed heavily on my mind as i went round after round of emails trying to "fix" a problem...

My point? it is possible that he just wasnt as precise as he should have been, and if he makes a good faith effort to rectify this, accept it and move on.