ECA Update: Amazon discount gone "for the time being"; in process of self-destruction

[quote name='caltab']Not sure, but I'd send it certified mail so they cannot say they haven't gotten it...they even say somewhere they can't be held liable for lost mail and you still being charged. I can't believe I gave these shady SOBs my credit card info, what I fool I am.[/QUOTE]

Oh, believe me, I was going to send it FEDEX with multiple copies kept for my credit card company, since I'm a bit upset over the whole thing, and spending the money to do it this way will amuse me.

I originally signed up back in August, before the free memberships, since the organization sounded interesting. I was going to simply let it renew each year. The Wife spends her disposable income on expensive wine, and I tend to spend a lot of mine on causes and such. However I can't actually find any evidence that TheECA is actually /doing/ anything, and the whole thing seems shady now.
 
[quote name='Gourd']Oh, believe me, I was going to send it FEDEX with multiple copies kept for my credit card company, since I'm a bit upset over the whole thing, and spending the money to do it this way will amuse me.

I originally signed up back in August, before the free memberships, since the organization sounded interesting. I was going to simply let it renew each year. The Wife spends her disposable income on expensive wine, and I tend to spend a lot of mine on causes and such. However I can't actually find any evidence that TheECA is actually /doing/ anything, and the whole thing seems shady now.[/QUOTE]

In my experience, certified mail is actually the best route with this type of thing and is typically used with legal documents, it's often how courts require a lot of documents like notice be sent. If its good enough for the legal system, it should be good enough to sever your ties with these people.
 
[quote name='caltab']In my experience, certified mail is actually the best route with this type of thing and is typically used with legal documents, it's often how courts require a lot of documents like notice be sent. If its good enough for the legal system, it should be good enough to sever your ties with these people.[/QUOTE]

Good advice! Thanks.

I think I'll try sending every possibly relevant bit of information I can on the cancellation notice.
 
For those assumed "lazy or finicky" members who wish to cancel, registered mail is basically necessary, here's an excerpt from their shady policy, particularly note the first sentence:

"12. Receipt of Mail. ECA cannot guarantee that it receives any mail that Member claims to have sent. Member should, at Member’s own expense, send any notices to ECA in a form to ensure to Member that their communication arrived at ECA, which form may include but not be limited to FedEx, UPS, USPS Return Receipt Requested and USPS Certified Mail."
 
Woooooooooow. This is beyond a joke. So, not only can't you simply e-mail them or hit the button that was there but wasn't suppose to be there, you aren't even able to send a simple letter for the cost of a stamp. Now, you have to pay for extra services. This is the year 2009. I can pay for my car online. I can procure my father's military records online. But I can't cancel a $20 membership to an organization.
 
My girlfriend and I both have accounts, but I signed up both with virtual credit cards... so I just closed the numbers. Pathetic how they are trying to prevent people from canceling.
 
Wow -- I had no idea the ECA was pulling such shady shit. I was slightly annoyed at the fact that I signed up and never got to use an Amazon discount before they were taken away, but I wasn't going to bitch since I got the free account. But now they're saying I basically have to pay a fee to send certified mail to cancel? fuck you, ECA. It's way past time you got your shit straight, before you lose your entire user base.
 
Sent them an e-mail just now, probably won't do any good but what the hell. Going to call them up tomorrow as well. This shit is ridiculous. Straight up, fuck you ECA with a capital F. Yall going to get fucked in the ass(hopefully) in the near future.
If anyone knows what to write/say on the physical mail, please let me know. Been looking around but couldn't find an answer.

Oh and that Gypsyfly person is a fucking machine, saying the same shit over and over on the forums, not helping one bit. How the fuck can a 'cancel renewal' button be there for some browsers? And how was it there on accident? fucking bullshit.
 
Sent them the following
I want to cancel my membership. When I joined there was an option to cancel via the website. That has since been removed and i've been told I can no longer cancel and I have to send in a letter via mail.
Furthermore since you can't guarantee you will recieve the letter I must now pay additional money to have it sent with reciept confirmation so I can make sure you recieved it.
This is NOT acceptable. If my account is not cancelled I will be contacting my credit card company and filling out the forms to issue a chargeback if and when you attempt to renew my membership as I do NOT authorize any additional charges.
Furthermore I will be opening a report to the better business bureau today after work detailing this shady practice.
Click to expand...

I will be filing a report thru the BBB after work today and if anyone is intrested when I am done i'll post the issue number. I'd suggest everyone file a report. It's free and it takes 10 minutes.
 
[quote name='Brian9824']Sent them the following


I will be filing a report thru the BBB after work today and if anyone is intrested when I am done i'll post the issue number. I'd suggest everyone file a report. It's free and it takes 10 minutes.[/QUOTE]
I'm interested.
 
[quote name='Brian9824']Sent them the following


I will be filing a report thru the BBB after work today and if anyone is intrested when I am done i'll post the issue number. I'd suggest everyone file a report. It's free and it takes 10 minutes.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, keep us posted. These shenanigans are pretty ridiculous.
 
If they put a charge on your CC contact the CC company and dispute the charge.

Every 'chargeback' will cost them money. If they get too many they will have to pay even more, or lose the ability to process CCs.

Oh and by the way with 'subscription services' you have up to two years (or more) to do the chargeback.
 
Yep. I'm not sending a letter. I'll send an email every month and save the copies and then file a chargeback thru my CC company. It's not even the letter but the principle behind it.
 
FYI I created a BB case - I suggest everyone do the same as their is no harm in it. They are currently Rated D+. Let's get them to an F-

BB case # 84063057.
 
Here is the link to BBB https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/complaintlink.aspx
If you lookup company you will see that The ECA is not accredited with BBB
Has a D+ rating, three away from an F

Look up company by either URL www.theeca.com or

Entertainment Consumers Association
64 Danbury Road, Suite 700
Wilton, CT 06897

I filed a complaint with BBB, two are on file to date

----------------------------------------------------------------

These are the grounds of the complaint --- folks can pile in on this (Cut and paste)

The fact remains that The ECA duped customers by advertising that its membership fees would basically pay for itself with the 10% Amazon.Com discount codes that The ECA would offer to be used towards a new game purchase. A number of new members signed up solely for this reason as the other benefits are quite useless and the only reason they paid was for sole use of Amazon.Com 10% discount codes. Clear bait and switch and false advertising to dupe new members.

Now to add insult to injury The ECA has removed the option to cancel existing memberships online and require a certified letter via U.S. mail l(to add additional expense to members) be mailed to them to deter members from cancelling due to additional cost in the hope they stay and renew their membership. Real shoddy membership practices.

The ECA should either refund membership dues or put back up the 10% Amazon Discount since it duped members to sign up by stating that the cost of membership would pay for itself by Amazon.Com discount codes.

---------

Here is their respose to BBB regarding Amazon - they fail to acknowledge they advertised the fact that the cost of membership would pay for itself by using 10% Amazon.Com discount codes

ECA advertises benefits regularly, through our various publications, on social networking sites and in bartered and paid advertising. If a sponsor chooses to alter their offering or discount, those ads are amended or halted to reflect the change. Since there are so many member benefits and of such compelling value - as compared with the cost of the annual dues fee - it rarely becomes an issue that any one discount removed or added is significant.

In the case of Amazon's 10% off coupons, the vast majority of folks took more than their fair share of the coupons and some exploited Amazon's software to ''stack'' or ''double-up'' the codes, resulting in a twenty or thirty percent savings per order (instead of the normal 10%). Due to this activity, Amazon began working on a unique multi-time use code that could be assigned once per member, which - in theory - should have removed the exploit and their losses as a result. We removed the related advertising during the downtime, so as not to mislead members. We regularly posted the information and status updates in our Forums as we knew it, but that did little to appease those who were impatient.

When Amazon did an analysis of the code stacking and weighed it against the cost of new customer acquisition, it likely became untenable to rationalize and they halted the offer. We advised our members of the change and addressed related concerns and questions from those disappointed by the consequences of the actions of their fellow members.

Similar to other membership organizations, such as AAA or AARP, the ECA Marketing staff works hard on establishing new and exciting partnerships with the many companies and brands that our members value, some of which can be found at http://www.theeca.com/membership_benefits

---------------

Funny how The ECA can take your money online, conduct its business online but cannot take a cancellation online, only through snail mail. This is pathetic and The ECA will get whats coming to them
 
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[quote name='sbains'] We removed the related advertising during the downtime, so as not to mislead members. We regularly posted the information and status updates in our Forums as we knew it, but that did little to appease those who were impatient.

When Amazon did an analysis of the code stacking and weighed it against the cost of new customer acquisition, it likely became untenable to rationalize and they halted the offer. We advised our members of the change and addressed related concerns and questions from those disappointed by the consequences of the actions of their fellow members.

[/QUOTE]

If you go to Member Benefits, you can see clearly that Amazon is still up there. Even though it said that the offer is unavailable at the moment, per above statement it seems that Amazon.com halted the offer forever.

If they can remove the "Auto Cancellation" button, why can't they remove the Amazon offer from the Member Benefits. It's probably because they have nothing else to offer...

I'm going to file a complain to BBB too... 2 from me (1 paid and 1 free membership (wife)).

The mods in CAG is better than ECA in answering question..
 
Has anyone checked the merchant agreements that retailers have with Visa and Mastercard? (Fun fact: A retailer cannot make you buy a minimum on a card. Next time you're in 7-11, you tell that sumabitch you're buying the Bazooka gum on credit) They're technically offering a way to cancel... and I doubt the agreeement would make them need any other cancellation method than the one they're offering. But who knows. Maybe it's in there that an e-retailer needs to have an electronic method of cancelling auto-renew.
 
[quote name='Brian9824']WTF somehow they went up to a B+ on BBB?
http://www.bbb.org/connecticut/busi...t-consumers-association-in-wilton-ct-87070995[/QUOTE]
Customer Complaint History for Entertainment Consumers Association

When considering complaint information, please take into account the company's size and volume of transactions, and understand that the nature of complaints and a firm's responses to them are often more important than the number of complaints.
BBB processed a total of 2 complaints about Entertainment Consumers Association in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 2 complaints closed in 36 months, 2 were closed in the last year.
Advertising Issues Resolved 1 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to BBB. Customer Service Issues Resolved 1 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to BBB.
Click to expand...
So The ECA can close their own BBB complaints without actually doing anything at all other than claiming no wrong doing?
 
I don't think anyone here understands - The BBB can do nothing. They have no power. All they can do is say "this company is shady" They are unable to fine the company, create reforms, force legislation, anything. They are a consumer advocate group. All they can do is warn the consumer.
 
[quote name='Brian9824']The BBB is just an easy method. It puts some pressure on them and generates negative publicity.[/QUOTE]

BBB done nothing. They went from a D to a B+
 
[quote name='62t']BBB done nothing. They went from a D to a B+[/QUOTE]


Seems really fishy that they went up with all the negative comments. I know I submitted a negative one when they were already at D+.

I kinda wonder if BBB's methods have ever been investigated.
 
I have already drafted a letter saying that I want my account canceled at the end of the current term, that they do NOT have authorzation to charge my account under any payment device they may have on file for me, and that my information MUST be completely deleted from their system and a confirmation of such deletion and account cancellation shall be sent to me at the end of the current term of my active membership. If I see any type of charge from them I do reserve the right to pursue any and all legal remedies available to me.

They're getting it certified return receipt, first class with certificate of mailing, via their feedback form and via fax.

If they choose to lose 4 copies of my request and charge me they can speak to my lawyer.
 
[quote name='PR Mega X']Wow -- I had no idea the ECA was pulling such shady shit. I was slightly annoyed at the fact that I signed up and never got to use an Amazon discount before they were taken away, but I wasn't going to bitch since I got the free account. But now they're saying I basically have to pay a fee to send certified mail to cancel? fuck you, ECA. It's way past time you got your shit straight, before you lose your entire user base.[/QUOTE]I agree. Tons of CAGs tried very hard to convince me to get into it, when I never was. Right when I joined, Amazon codes stopped. Now I'm fucking worried they will put unauthorized charges on my CC. I'm so tempted now to cancel my card and get a brand new one (with a new number).
 
[quote name='Brian9824']The BBB is just an easy method. It puts some pressure on them and generates negative publicity.[/QUOTE]

Some pressure and some negative publicity, but it's limited in scope. Personally, I think the front-page Joystiq article has probably drawn more attention than all of the reviews on that page.

How many of you actually decided to check the ECA out with the Better Business Bureau before you signed up? How many people do you think would check now? People don't use the BBB website unless they've got reason to complain, or already have a reason to suspect things might be shady. Bad reviews on their site won't stop anyone from signing up until it's too late.

[quote name='Porksta']I don't think anyone here understands - The BBB can do nothing. They have no power. All they can do is say "this company is shady" They are unable to fine the company, create reforms, force legislation, anything. They are a consumer advocate group. All they can do is warn the consumer.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. This is a nice lead-in into some of the other comments...

[quote name='Strmtrper6']Seems really fishy that they went up with all the negative comments. I know I submitted a negative one when they were already at D+.

I kinda wonder if BBB's methods have ever been investigated.[/QUOTE]

Please don't tell me that you're trying to accuse the BBB of trying to scam people.

[quote name='62t']ECA simply told BBB that they are following their TOS. Since they responded their rating improved.[/QUOTE]

This is why their rating went up. They responded to the complaint, and if they are following the Terms of Service that you all agreed to, then that was probably grounds to dismiss most of the complaints.

[quote name='xbox_mole']I have already drafted a letter saying that I want my account canceled at the end of the current term, that they do NOT have authorzation to charge my account under any payment device they may have on file for me, and that my information MUST be completely deleted from their system and a confirmation of such deletion and account cancellation shall be sent to me at the end of the current term of my active membership. If I see any type of charge from them I do reserve the right to pursue any and all legal remedies available to me.

They're getting it certified return receipt, first class with certificate of mailing, via their feedback form and via fax.

If they choose to lose 4 copies of my request and charge me they can speak to my lawyer.[/QUOTE]

That seems like a little bit of overkill. :lol:

That said, that should absolutely get the job done.
 
Uh-oh. I don't know if anyone's looked at the Joystiq article lately, but it's been updated with a response from the ECA president. I don't see a positive reaction to this...

ECA president Hal Halpin's response:

We were disheartened to read some of the coverage and comments related to complaints regarding our member cancellation policies this morning. The issue seems to have begun following a guest article that I penned a few months ago, where I highlighted the various policy issues that gamers should be aware of – from Net Neutrality and Universal Broadband to Digital Rights Management (DRM) and End User License Agreements (EULAs). I concluded the piece by providing those who had taken the time to diligently read the article with a coupon code, encouraging them to sign up for a free trial membership... the logic being that we'd like to have readers who care about the issues among our ranks. For about four weeks following the publishing, we had a small bump in new member acquisition, but they were not coming from the article, unfortunately. These new members were coming from websites and forums that were solely promoting the coupon code, sans important reading.

Within a relatively short period of time, some of the new members found an exploit in one of our partners' promotional codes and spread the word. The partner tried to resolve the situation, during which time we removed any references to the program, but ultimately it was decided that the offer be terminated. We advised members as soon as we were aware and reassured them that we were working on additional offers with new partners. We updated our website during the same timeframe in a long planned for Content Management System upgrade and an inactive back-end feature became visible, which looked to give some members the option to opt-out of the association. We were alerted to the error and removed the non-functioning feature immediately. Because it was viewable and then removed, those same few members became concerned that it was a feature that had been live all along and was suddenly removed. We then attempted to explain the situation and allay their concerns.

There were then concerns about the auto-renew structure of our payment system and business model related to that same function. We explained that we are working on ramping up infrastructure to become more automated going forward, but due to a small but active number of members who were repeatedly joining, leaving and re-joining the organization – in an effort to exploit our member benefits and unduly take advantage of our partners' generous offers – we would require a mailed letter, as per our membership agreement. Needless to say, that incensed the exploiters who then contacted the Better Business Bureau (BBB) and their personal banks to report that we attained their membership under fraudulent conditions, in effect committing fraud themselves. Upon investigating the opened investigations, the respective banks and BBB all found ECA to be soundly reputable. We understand that several of the banks have since opened fraud investigations into their customers and that they take such matters very seriously.

Over the past few years, membership in the ECA has grown substantially, the primary reason for which is directly attributable to the important work done by the association, partnerships formed with coalitions, parallel trade associations and corporations, all eager to help defend the rights of game consumers. We have added many valuable benefits for members including discounts on games-related goods and services, purchases and rentals and a whole host of additional affinity benefits. We have several retail partners who offer significant promotions and several more, which are in the process of being finalized. It is important to note that the number of members who were/are involved in this unfortunate issue is very small and not representative of the organization as a whole. We sincerely thank the dedicated ECA members and the gaming community for their understanding and support on this matter and we look forward to continuing to grow the organization to suit the needs of the consumers.

Hal Halpin – ECA President
Click to expand...

At least one takeaway: the online cancellation link, at least according to him, was never functional. If you went that route, it might be time to start writing a letter.
 
Penny Arcade pulled the PAX discount [quote name='Gabe']I've got another post for all you DM's out there but before I do that I have a minor PAX announcement. I've been getting a lot of mail about the ECA this morning. The Joystiq article is a good break down of what's going on. I'm not exactly sure how I feel about it but in the meantime we've gone ahead and pulled the ECA promotion we were running as a part of PAX registration. If the story changes I'll let you know.[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='chakan']Penny Arcade pulled the PAX discount[/QUOTE]

To clarify: this is a discount on ECA membership for PAX attendees, right?

If so...I can't say I blame them. At this point, it's probably best to be cautious until things clear up, and being linked with ECA at all is probably not in their best interest, much less actively encouraging people to sign up for it.
 
I've been following this fiasco mostly by lurking on GAF. Just decided to check in and post here. I was a bit skeptical about the free membership and I'm glad I never ended up joining. The many lies and illegalities this company has given the gaming community is just plain absurd. This issue could have been very easily resolved with a little civility on their part, but instead they decided to act even more immature than the people complaining. I'm glad Penny Arcade, at the very least, sees that. I can't wait to see the shit hit the fan on their other partnerships. I have no material interest in how this fiasco ends up, except for the fact that I hate companies committing shady and illegal shit and not getting their due.
 
When they removed the "disable auto-renew" feature (that was apparently broken) did they change their TOS to some of this crazy stuff or was it always there?
 
[quote name='WebScud']When they removed the "disable auto-renew" feature (that was apparently broken) did they change their TOS to some of this crazy stuff or was it always there?[/QUOTE]
I am not sure about all of the details, but I do know that their TOS used to allow you to cancel by phone. At some point this was changed to mail only.
 
I signed up for ECA a while ago as a paid member and used a student email address, they billed me at the reg rate of $19.99. I sent some emails and they never made any sort of effort to amend it. I gave up eventually cause it was $5 and I did save quite a few dollars with the Amazon discount. Very shady business.
 
My favorite part of Hal's response is the BS of the banks turning around and claiming fraud on the people who tried to cancel their memeberships through denying the charge. CLASSY THERE HAL.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']They just deactivated registration for their forums. Classy.[/QUOTE]

Where does the ECA get funding, outside of subs? If they get funding from other companies, I think we should start emailing those companies let them know of the great things the ECA is doing to piss of their customers.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']They just deactivated registration for their forums. Classy.[/QUOTE]

Yep, basically all threads on their forums dealing with the issue have been locked or deleted. It's really quite sad actually, and it certainly doesn't put them in a positive light.

Love Shrike's new title to this thread - "in process of self destruction" :lol:
 
[quote name='Josef']Yep, basically all threads on their forums dealing with the issue have been locked or deleted. It's really quite sad actually, and it certainly doesn't put them in a positive light.

Love Shrike's new title to this thread - "in process of self destruction" :lol:[/QUOTE]Any witch-hunting like this can't do anything except make them look scared of the truth.

I'm glad you like the title, the "new discounts coming soon" wasn't close to appropriate any longer. :D
 
[quote name='Porksta']I don't think anyone here understands - The BBB can do nothing. They have no power. All they can do is say "this company is shady" They are unable to fine the company, create reforms, force legislation, anything. They are a consumer advocate group. All they can do is warn the consumer.[/QUOTE]

You know, I always thought that too, but Microsoft freaked out when I reported them to the BBB after I was unable to get satisfactory answers out of their customer service reps for something earlier this year. Suddenly I was assigned a higher up case manager, who worked the entire issue through himself. When I asked him why they had turned around so completely, he said that it was "because once the BBB is brought into it, it becomes a legal matter." To be honest, I really don't know what he meant by that -- I didn't push the question any further, they dealt with my issue (mostly) satisfactorily, and it was resolved. If Microsoft is that scared of the BBB, I would think there must be something to be concerned about (couldn't tell you what, though).
 
[quote name='arcane93']You know, I always thought that too, but Microsoft freaked out when I reported them to the BBB after I was unable to get satisfactory answers out of their customer service reps for something earlier this year. Suddenly I was assigned a higher up case manager, who worked the entire issue through himself. When I asked him why they had turned around so completely, he said that it was "because once the BBB is brought into it, it becomes a legal matter." To be honest, I really don't know what he meant by that -- I didn't push the question any further, they dealt with my issue (mostly) satisfactorily, and it was resolved. If Microsoft is that scared of the BBB, I would think there must be something to be concerned about (couldn't tell you what, though).[/QUOTE]

As soon as I reported paypal to the BBB I got a call back from a manager who said they would authorize a refund as a one time courtesy to me (bad ebay trade where paypal sided with a scammer). So there is no harm in trying with the BBB. Takes 10 minutes and might as well hit the ECA as many times as you can from as many directions as possible.
 
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