EXTREMELY bad news for CAGs and all bargain lovers

Tybee

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The U.S. Supreme Court today struck down a nearly century-old ban on price floors. What does this mean and why should you put down your controller and give a shit? Because now manfacturers and distributors (aka, retailers and the companies that supply them) can agree on a price below which a product may not be sold. Thus, things like clearance games and great online deals may become relics of the past, as retailers will no longer be able to sell an item below that pre-arranged price.

Pissed yet? Blame big business and George Bush, who pushed for the reversal, the conservative justices (Alito, Thomas, Roberts, Scalia) who voted for it, and the swing vote (Kennedy) who gave them the majority.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/29/business/28cnd-bizcourt.html


June 29, 2007
Justices End 96-Year-Old Ban on Price Floors
By STEPHEN LABATON

WASHINGTON, June 28 — Striking down an antitrust rule nearly a century old, the Supreme Court ruled today that it is no longer automatically unlawful for manufacturers and distributors to agree on setting minimum retail prices.

The decision will give producers significantly more leeway, though not unlimited power, to dictate retail prices and to restrict the flexibility of discounters.

Five justices said the new rule could, in some instances, lead to more competition and better service. But four dissenting justices agreed with the submission of 37 states and consumer groups that the abandonment of the old rule would lead to significantly higher prices and less competition for consumer and other goods.

The court struck down the 96-year-old rule that resale price maintenance agreements were an automatic, or per se, violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act. In its place, the court instructed judges considering such agreements for possible antitrust violations to apply a case-by-case approach, known as a “rule of reason,” to assess their impact on competition.

The decision was the latest in a string of opinions this term to overturn Supreme Court precedents. It marked the latest in a line of Supreme Court victories for big businesses and antitrust defendants. And it was the latest of the court’s antitrust decisions in recent years to reject rules that had prohibited various marketing agreements between companies.

The Bush administration, along with economists of the Chicago school, had argued that the blanket prohibition against resale price maintenance agreements was archaic and counterproductive because, they said, some resale price agreements actually promote competition.

For example, they said, such agreements can make it easier for a new producer by assuring retailers that they will be able to recoup their investments in helping to market the product. And they said some distributors could be unfairly harmed by others — like Internet-based retailers — that could offer discounts because they would not be incurring the expenses of providing product demonstrations and other specialized consumer services.

A majority of the court agreed that the flat ban on price agreements discouraged these and other marketing practices that could be helpful to competition.

“In sum, it is a flawed antitrust doctrine that serves the interests of lawyers — by creating legal distinctions that operate as traps for the unaware — more than the interests of consumers — by requiring manufacturers to choose second-best options to achieve sound business objectives,” the court said in an opinion by Justice Anthony M. Kennedy and signed by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito Jr.

But in his dissent, portions of which he read from the bench, Justice Stephen G. Breyer said there was no compelling reason to overturn a century’s worth of Supreme Court decisions that had affirmed the prohibition on resale maintenance agreements.

“The only safe predictions to make about today’s decision are that it will likely raise the price of goods at retail and that it will create considerable legal turbulence as lower courts seek to develop workable principles,” he wrote. “I do not believe that the majority has shown new or changed conditions sufficient to warrant overruling a decision of such long standing.”

During the period from 1937 to 1975 when Congress allowed the states to adopt laws that permitted retail price fixing, economists estimated that such agreements covered about 10 percent of consumer good purchases. In today’s dollars, Justice Breyer estimated that the agreements translate to a higher annual average bill for a family of four of roughly $750 to $1,000.

The dissent was signed by Justices John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

The case involved an appeal of a judgment of $1.2 million against Leegin Creative Leather Products Inc. after it cut off Kay’s Kloset, a suburban Dallas shop, for refusing to honor Leegin’s no-discount policy. The judgment was automatically tripled under antitrust law.

Leegin’s marketing strategy for finding a niche in the highly competitive world of small leather goods was to sell its “Brighton” line of fashion accessories through small boutiques that could offer personalized service. Retailers were required to accept a no-discounting policy.

After the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, in New Orleans, upheld the judgment and said it was bound by Supreme Court precedent, Leegin took the case to the Supreme Court. Unless it is settled, the case, Leegin Creative Leather Products v. PSK Inc., will now be sent down to a lower court to apply the new standard.

The Supreme Court adopted the flat ban on resale price agreements between manufacturers and retailers in 1911, when it founded that the Dr. Miles Medical Company had violated the Sherman act. The company had sought to sell medicine only to distributors who agreed to resell them at set prices. The court said such agreements benefit only the distributors, not consumers, and set a rule making such agreements unlawful.

Justice Kennedy said today that the court was not bound by the 1911 precedent because of the “widespread agreement” among economists that resale price maintenance agreements can promote competition.

“Vertical agreements establishing minimum resale prices can have either pro-competitive or anticompetitive effects, depending upon the circumstances in which they are formed,” he wrote.

But Justice Breyer said in his dissent that the court had failed to justify the overturning of the rule, or that there was significant evidence to show that price agreements would often benefit consumers. He said courts would have a difficult time sorting out the price agreements that help consumers from those that harm them.

“The upshot is, as many economists suggest, sometimes resale price maintenance can prove harmful, sometimes it can bring benefits,” he wrote. “But before concluding that courts should consequently apply a rule of reason, I would ask such questions as, how often are harms or benefits likely to occur? How easy is it to separate the beneficial sheep from the antitrust goats?”

“My own answer,” he concluded, “is not very easily.”
 
So there's no more competition between retailers? Might as well buy everything instore to save on shipping.
 
Well than, Pirate is the way of my future gaming ^__^, maybe just maybe CheapyD might change the site to Cheap-Pirate Ass gamer. Come to think of it maybe I should open up VDO game renting store. Ummmmmmmmmm
 
Hmm. Nice to see that even a most basic principle of economics is still able to be violated, willingly, by people who are old enough to have seen the entirely negative effects of their own proposals.

"sometimes resale price maintenance can prove harmful, sometimes it can bring benefits"
That's funny, I haven't reached my upper level theory classes, but I can still think of only a few positives to many severe negatives.


It's interesting that businesses think they aren't shooting themselves in the foot with this one. The cost of shelf space (both accounting and opportunity) for 100 unsold copies of "Mediocre ShitFest 7" has to far exceed the extra profit promised by their minimum $30 tag, especially when no one buys them for years.
 
Uh oh.

Well, goodbye Cheap-Ass-Gaming community. If this is indeed true, this site, FW, SD, and all the other bargain sites are done. We shall see how much longer this site has left
 
"Justice Kennedy said today that the court was not bound by the 1911 precedent because of the “widespread agreement” among economists that resale price maintenance agreements can promote competition."

:rofl: What? Apparently economists are into inefficient resource allocations and increased risk for collusion now. Lemme fix that:

"Justice Kennedy said today that the court was not bound by the 1911 precedent because of the “widespread agreement” among economists industry representatives that resale price maintenance agreements can promote competition."

There we go.
 
See I've always thought competition never benefited the consumer!!!

By the way this decision was brought to you by "Supreme Court by Cialis" because now government being bought and paid for isn't even afraid to hide.
 
Reality's Fringe;3065279 said:
:rofl: What? Apparently economists are into inefficient resource allocations and increased risk for collusion now.

I was just thinking that was a huge load of bullshit too.
 
so what will happen to all those copies of games (along with every other item that is sold) that nobody wants?...just keep piling up and taking up space?
 
While it will suck for us in the short-run, it probably won't have too much of an impact on the overall market. You go to sites that make you add something to your cart to get a cheaper price, right? It's the same thing. Store will add coupons, discounts, special offers to get around these agreements if the items aren't selling short-term, and will renegotiate lower floors long-term, or the suppliers risk not having their product sold at all.
 
[quote name='Jedi1979']so what will happen to all those copies of games (along with every other item that is sold) that nobody wants?...just keep piling up and taking up space?[/quote]

Price floors do create surpluses.
 
This sucks. I hate to judge on one ruling, but Roberts certainly swung the "right" way that time. :p

Breyers comments ring truth: there was no compelling reason for this to be overturned and this is all fat cat BS. If prices do rise on the whole because of this new legal morass that smaller businesses have to wade through to stay competitive, I hope consumers everywhere just buy a whole lot less shit in general.

Talk about a nation in decline...
 
Because now manfacturers and distributors (aka, retailers and the companies that supply them) can agree on a price below which a product may not be sold.

How do we know that the manufacturers won't agree to a super low price?
By now, they must know that demand dies down and price cuts are necessary.

I wouldn't go crazy.
I doubt most, or any of us know the kind of impact this will make.
Probably not much is my guess.
 
[quote name='MikeC']How in the Hell can that possibly increase competition? :wall:[/QUOTE]

Better service? Yeah I'm pretty sure my local WalMart will start giving a shit about me now.
 
[quote name='MikeC']How in the Hell can that possibly increase competition? :wall:[/QUOTE]
Well, if every store have the same stuff at the same price maybe the store like BestBuy and CC will tell their workers to bent over for customer ^__^;
 
I still would like to see an appeal just to delay its passing somewhat. Is that possible in this case?

Its retarded. Lowering prices is what causes people to buy things. We're all gonna get fucked in the end when they inevitably decide to set the floor at MSRP.

Also with price floors, retailers will have to take less risks. In the worst case scenario, big retailers won't stock niche games because they won't sell as much as your Maddens and Halos.

However, look at the first paragraph: manufacturers and distributers. Game publishers have a say in it. Sure, it still won't be ZOMG $5.00 CLEARANCE!, but it will be some amount probably in the $20-$30 range.
 
Price floors will not be MSRP.

They actually want to sell product you know?

Besides, these floors can be changed at anytime.
Stuff not selling after a year? Drop the floor.
 
Not getting in an uproar yet.

I'm just saying we need a new line in the Constitution that states there should be a separation of state and business. Christ.

Assuming this decision has been along the lines of corporate cronyism we've seen in this goddamn administration, I can only assume the same underlying trend is at play here.

I think Lewis Black said it best when he said "They [Government and Business] used to be in bed together and no one knew about it. Now they just fuck each other right in front of you."
 
I'm ignorant of how retail works here, so if someone can answer this for me, please do: who owns the products on the shelves at stores? Are they just being housed for the producers and when a sale gets made the store takes its cut and sends the rest back to the producer? If not, and the stores own the merchandise once it's on site, I don't see how the production companies have any more say about what terms the store wants to set on how it gets rid of the product it owns.
 
[quote name='EXStrike']I still would like to see an appeal just to delay its passing somewhat. Is that possible in this case?[/quote]

You can't appeal a Supreme Court decision. That's what makes it the SUPREME COURT. :roll:
 
[quote name='Tybee']You can't appeal a Supreme Court decision. That's what makes it the SUPREME COURT. :roll:[/QUOTE]

I was going to be a bit meaner, but yeah.
 
[quote name='jmcc']I'm ignorant of how retail works here, so if someone can answer this for me, please do: who owns the products on the shelves at stores? Are they just being housed for the producers and when a sale gets made the store takes its cut and sends the rest back to the producer? If not, and the stores own the merchandise once it's on site, I don't see how the production companies have any more say about what terms the store wants to set on how it gets rid of the product it owns.[/quote]

Pretty much everyone here is probably a little ignorant of how retail works in the background.
Which is why everyone is getting into a such a huff and starting the blame game.
 
This does sound bad. I wonder what it will mean in the real world. Realisitically if Wal-Mart decides they won't play ball with any distributer/manufacturer that wants to set a price bottom, companies will fold. Of course Wal Mart doesn't do much in clearance beyond just coming out with a low price to begin with either.

Hell, could Wal-Mart demand companies set their price bottom at the price Wal-Mart is going to sell? Yikes.

But I believe some products already don't allow places to discount below a certain level (I think Oakleys are like that) but I assume they enforce it by simply not selling any more product to stores that violate the policy.
 
It is a dark time for the Rebellion...

And I ain't just talkin' games there. Nevertheless, thanks for the greater-than-just-gaming news, be it good or bad.
 
[quote name='Tybee']You can't appeal a Supreme Court decision. That's what makes it the SUPREME COURT. :roll:[/QUOTE]As I understand it that's not exactly true in practice. It would be called "not giving a crap what they say." They have no enforcement power and should they come up with a wacky judgement like "negroes banned from public schools" the enforcement bodies would be free to say "take that weak shit to the park, maybe the squirrels will care."
 
[quote name='dallow']Pretty much everyone here is probably a little ignorant of how retail works in the background.
Which is why everyone is getting into a such a huff and starting the blame game.[/quote]

The supreme court overturns a 90+ year antitrust law that puts a new strain on the court system and makes it easier for big business to set prices on retail goods.

No, there's no reason to get in a huff and start the blame game...
 
I don't see it as being as scary as you guys think. Stores will still need to move product. New stuff is coming out all the time and shelf space is limited. I seriously doubt that every company will be willing to have shelves and shelves of unsellable 40$ scooby doo/etc. games that are 4 years old.

Both the retailer and game maker know that they cant expect a high minimum price point will sell their stock after a year or two.

I'm sure it will effect somet hings, but there will always be a need to mark stuff down to get rid of it. The alternative is NO PROFIT and having them destroyed.
 
[quote name='jmcc'] "take that weak shit to the park, maybe the squirrels will care."[/QUOTE]

Haha I like this statement, and question its origin.

Also I think you're right - don't know if the judicial system gets to enforce the law. Isn't that the executive branch's deal? I'm terrible with politics so I don't know shit.
 
[quote name='Noodle Pirate!']I don't see it as being as scary as you guys think. Stores will still need to move product. New stuff is coming out all the time and shelf space is limited. I seriously doubt that every company will be willing to have shelves and shelves of unsellable 40$ scooby doo/etc. games that are 4 years old.

Both the retailer and game maker know that they cant expect a high minimum price point will sell their stock after a year or two.

I'm sure it will effect somet hings, but there will always be a need to mark stuff down to get rid of it. The alternative is NO PROFIT and having them destroyed.[/quote]

THANK YOU.

so frys and circuit city can't sell new games for $40 anymore?
Of course they will. I'll buy you a game
my price ceiling is 29.99
if that isn't the case.
 
While I think the ruling isn't in the best interest of the people, it's not that big a deal. If people stop buying stuff then they'll have to lower the prices, or else they'll be ass out. And no one likes being ass out.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']While I think the ruling isn't in the best interest of the people, it's not that big a deal. If people stop buying stuff then they'll have to lower the prices, or else they'll be ass out. And no one likes being ass out.[/quote]

I agree, particularly in the near term, but this also does mean more obstacles for small business. Really, being an entrepeneur is one of the few ways to legitimately acquire wealth in this country, so if I were starting or maintaining a retail business, I'd definitely be concerned about this.
 
[quote name='gunm']I agree, particularly in the near term, but this also does mean more obstacles for small business. Really, being an entrepeneur is one of the few ways to legitimately acquire wealth in this country, so if I were starting or maintaining a retail business, I'd definitely be concerned about this.[/quote]

I agree, this is going to hurt small retail business before it does big, but maybe that means that people will look into something other than retail at the small level?

The US government keeps encouraging Canadian migration for some reason though. :roll:
 
"take that weak shit to the park, maybe the squirrels will care."

When I used to walk through The Oval at O.S.U., the squirrels would often surround me, encircle me watchfully (not kidding), because, well, I am a nut, right?

Right, Lobster-pants?
 
This actually is the government removing itself from business. And if you want to see the economic consequences of an intended price floor, look at the PS3. It's $600 everywhere. The world didn't end, fun didn't go extinct; people just didn't buy it.
 
We aren't going anywhere Graystone.

This actually is the government removing itself from business. And if you want to see the economic consequences of an intended price floor, look at the PS3. It's $600 everywhere. The world didn't end, fun didn't go extinct; people just didn't buy it.

Haha, yes.
 
Can I smell hate towards conservatives? :lol:

I'm not against or pro any side, but yes this does suck... will it have a huge impact... I doubt it until 5 or 10 years from now.
 
[quote name='dallow']We aren't going anywhere Graystone.[/QUOTE]

Especially Graystone. I know he aint runnin' nowheres.

[quote name='diaeresis']This actually is the government removing itself from business. And if you want to see the economic consequences of an intended price floor, look at the PS3. It's $600 everywhere. The world didn't end, fun didn't go extinct; people just didn't buy it.[/QUOTE]

Ahhh.
 
[quote name='jmcc']As I understand it that's not exactly true in practice. It would be called "not giving a crap what they say." They have no enforcement power and should they come up with a wacky judgement like "negroes banned from public schools" the enforcement bodies would be free to say "take that weak shit to the park, maybe the squirrels will care."[/quote]

I think that's when Congress would pass a new law saying they could go to public schools. But then the supreme court would rule the law unconstitutional. But then Congress would pass a new amendment. But then the president would veto it. But then Congress would override his veto....
 
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