Fan made Mother 3 strat guide. $26 shipped
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brittonrupp
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i jumped on this the second i saw it earlier this week. i love how much effort the fans have put into this! btw i also have that sybex ff7 guide.
Jedah Doma
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I'd really like to jump on this one, but even after all the proof presented as to the legality of the guide, I'm afraid it's going to get shut down at the last minute.
mykevermin
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There's something about the "
you, we'll do it ourselves" nature of the Earthbound fanatics that I'm completely infatuated with.
you, we'll do it ourselves" nature of the Earthbound fanatics that I'm completely infatuated with.
zenintrude
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[quote name='sliknik27']I'll probably pick one up just to support the awesomeness of this project. I've heard the Japanese in the game is actually pretty simple, so I probably won't need the guide, but who can pass up a collectible?[/QUOTE]
it's actually been fully translated, so if that's the only barrier you would have... it's not really necessary
it's actually been fully translated, so if that's the only barrier you would have... it's not really necessary
Purkeynator
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very cool stuff. Now they need to make a guide for the English version of Mother 1.
jetsetmario
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[quote name='chakan']From one of the articles:
"Kopp's complaint argues that his book does not infringe on any of the companies' copyrights for several reasons: The book presents a disclaimer on its first page about its "unauthorized" nature, contains no copyrighted text or storylines from the game, and makes "fair use" of selected screenshots under copyright law, the complaint said."
And he won, by the way.
http://lawvibe.com/world-of-warcraft-ebook-seller-wins-case-against-blizzard/
lol, missed the sarcasm, sorry. Hadn't had my coffee yet.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that this book uses translated text taken straight from the copyrighted source material. It would be the same as translating a book from another language into English and than selling it for monetary gain even though you did not have the rights for said material. I am unsure of the legalities surrounding the screenshots but this project will definitely be shut down on the text alone.
"Kopp's complaint argues that his book does not infringe on any of the companies' copyrights for several reasons: The book presents a disclaimer on its first page about its "unauthorized" nature, contains no copyrighted text or storylines from the game, and makes "fair use" of selected screenshots under copyright law, the complaint said."
And he won, by the way.
http://lawvibe.com/world-of-warcraft-ebook-seller-wins-case-against-blizzard/
lol, missed the sarcasm, sorry. Hadn't had my coffee yet.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that this book uses translated text taken straight from the copyrighted source material. It would be the same as translating a book from another language into English and than selling it for monetary gain even though you did not have the rights for said material. I am unsure of the legalities surrounding the screenshots but this project will definitely be shut down on the text alone.
[quote name='jetsetmario']The problem is that this book uses translated text taken straight from the copyrighted source material. It would be the same as translating a book from another language into English and than selling it for monetary gain even though you did not have the rights for said material. I am unsure of the legalities surrounding the screenshots but this project will definitely be shut down on the text alone.[/QUOTE]
How do you know they are taking text from copyrighted sources?
How do you know they are taking text from copyrighted sources?
Hey guys, I appreciate the kind words, I can't tell you how great it feels to have such heartfelt support from the gaming community.
I definitely understand the concerns about the guide's legality -- it was something we agonized over and studied for months. Having thought/researched it for so long, we feel strongly that the guide is legal and safe. Here's our reasoning:
Wow, that's a lot of words. Anyway, hope that clears things up. I realize that not every point I made will withstand intense scrutiny, but taken together, we really feel that our guide has a strong defense. Thanks
I definitely understand the concerns about the guide's legality -- it was something we agonized over and studied for months. Having thought/researched it for so long, we feel strongly that the guide is legal and safe. Here's our reasoning:
- Since its a Japanese game, NCL -- not NoA -- would probably have to pursue this case, and we're pretty sure they don't care; there's a huge market for unofficial/fanmade players guides in Japan.
- The only copyrighted materials we're using are screenshots and short translations (a few sentences here and there), and those are for the purpose of guiding and educating the players. We feel this is defensible under fair use principles.
- We created our own artwork and design -- there are no official logos, no official art, nothing of the sort. Everything is 'homebrewed' by our team of artists, writers, and designers.
- We don't feel that this is a derivative work -- it complements the game, rather than attempting to displace or compete with it. We've been working hard to avoid a step-by-step explanation of the storyline, and instead are crafting our guide to support the player and get them thinking. We genuinely want this guide to be a supplement rather than a checklist for beating the game.
- There is no effect upon MOTHER 3’s market value (or Nintendo's profits) because the game was never deemed valuable enough to localize and release in the first place. Nintendo needs a reason to bring a lawsuit against us, and without a product in the marketplace, their argument would be very weak.
- The commercial game guide market is, of course, well-established by companies and sites like: http://gamefaqs.com (ad-supported), http://guides.gamepressure.com/ (sales-supported), http://lunabean.com/ (sales-supported), etc.
- We actually tried to get licensed for this guide. After weeks of calls, emails, research, unreturned messages and dead ends, we threw our hands in the air and said "screw it! we're flying unlicensed!" We'd be glad -- thrilled, actually -- to talk to Nintendo about licensing the guide in the same way we're hoping to negotiate to get the Fangamer Store licensed.
- Blizzard recently settled out of court after they were sued for trying to squelch some Warcraft dude's guide which is definitely a point in our favor.
- We are little fish, and Nintendo is dealing with some very big, very nasty fish right now. The hardware patent suits they're facing could cost them billions of dollars, and as such I don't think they're going to waste their time, money, or PR karma by squashing a bunch of their nerd friends ;D
Wow, that's a lot of words. Anyway, hope that clears things up. I realize that not every point I made will withstand intense scrutiny, but taken together, we really feel that our guide has a strong defense. Thanks
zenintrude
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it's cool that you guys thought about it and did the best research you could before embarking on this venture. i hope it all goes well for you!
cochesecochese
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Well said, reidman. Many thanks for all the work on the translation!
UberNinjaz
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Nintendo probably doesn't care about the Earthbound/ Mother series these. After how poorly Earthbound sold back in the SNES/ Genesis era, they never made any effort to make Ness or even Earthbound show up again except for SSB games.
Selling Wii Music to the idiotic masses will make them alot more money for less work anyway.
Selling Wii Music to the idiotic masses will make them alot more money for less work anyway.
Civickid96
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I ordered one. I can't wait for it. It looks really well made!
--Michael
--Michael
The majority of your arguments have a few problems, both for and against the positions you stated, but yes... I doubt Nintendo would find it worth their time or effort unless you sell one boatload of guides. Your point about the guide websites, while those are typically fan-based guides... the majority of which do not even host screen shots (rather the links to imageshack, which are removed quite often).
I definitely applaud the guide makers though. I love fan-based guides that show both significant amounts of effort and thought... which is why I would purchase your guide before I'd purchase 99% of the current commercially produced guides.
I would like to point out some flaws with your bulletpoints, though.... if anything to just help you by strengthening some of your arguments
I definitely applaud the guide makers though. I love fan-based guides that show both significant amounts of effort and thought... which is why I would purchase your guide before I'd purchase 99% of the current commercially produced guides.
I would like to point out some flaws with your bulletpoints, though.... if anything to just help you by strengthening some of your arguments
- Since its a Japanese game, NCL -- not NoA -- would probably have to pursue this case, and we're pretty sure they don't care; there's a huge market for unofficial/fanmade players guides in Japan
- The only copyrighted materials we're using are screenshots and short translations (a few sentences here and there), and those are for the purpose of guiding and educating the players. We feel this is defensible under fair use principles.
- We created our own artwork and design -- there are no official logos, no official art, nothing of the sort. Everything is 'homebrewed' by our team of artists, writers, and designers.
- There is no effect upon MOTHER 3’s market value (or Nintendo's profits) because the game was never deemed valuable enough to localize and release in the first place. Nintendo needs a reason to bring a lawsuit against us, and without a product in the marketplace, their argument would be very weak.
- We actually tried to get licensed for this guide. After weeks of calls, emails, research, unreturned messages and dead ends, we threw our hands in the air and said "screw it! we're flying unlicensed!" We'd be glad -- thrilled, actually -- to talk to Nintendo about licensing the guide in the same way we're hoping to negotiate to get the Fangamer Store licensed.
- We are little fish, and Nintendo is dealing with some very big, very nasty fish right now. The hardware patent suits they're facing could cost them billions of dollars, and as such I don't think they're going to waste their time, money, or PR karma by squashing a bunch of their nerd friends ;D
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dyeknom -- I really appreciate you taking the time to go through that stuff. Some of it I had thought of, but you've brought up a few good points that I hadn't considered (specifically the logo and ROM screenshot issues).
Concerning your last point, we actually *did* get a hold of several Nintendo employees in an unofficial capacity. Speaking off the record, they made it clear that we'd have to talk to NCL about getting licensed for anything involving MOTHER 3, and then kinda lol'ed at the idea of a bunch of American fans getting licensed for *anything* through NCL. This is one of the few challenges we've come up against which we've felt genuinely unprepared to tackle, so we chose to leave it alone.
The same employees also said that Nintendo gives Prima (and in the past, I think, Brady) 100% of their players' guide business. So even if NoA was capable of licensing the book, it wouldn't happen as long as we were positioning it as a players guide. Incidentally, this is part of the reason we called it the 'Handbook' and chose to position it as more of a supplement/art book than a walkthrough.
At this point we were pretty despondent and the whole project felt like it was in limbo, but a few weeks later we got a ray of hope. In a nutshell, we were told that as long as we weren't treading on protected ground (i.e. as long as what we're doing isn't a service Nintendo would otherwise provide to its fans), we would be safe. After a short celebration we prayed that our 'intel' was solid and got back to work
Concerning your last point, we actually *did* get a hold of several Nintendo employees in an unofficial capacity. Speaking off the record, they made it clear that we'd have to talk to NCL about getting licensed for anything involving MOTHER 3, and then kinda lol'ed at the idea of a bunch of American fans getting licensed for *anything* through NCL. This is one of the few challenges we've come up against which we've felt genuinely unprepared to tackle, so we chose to leave it alone.
The same employees also said that Nintendo gives Prima (and in the past, I think, Brady) 100% of their players' guide business. So even if NoA was capable of licensing the book, it wouldn't happen as long as we were positioning it as a players guide. Incidentally, this is part of the reason we called it the 'Handbook' and chose to position it as more of a supplement/art book than a walkthrough.
At this point we were pretty despondent and the whole project felt like it was in limbo, but a few weeks later we got a ray of hope. In a nutshell, we were told that as long as we weren't treading on protected ground (i.e. as long as what we're doing isn't a service Nintendo would otherwise provide to its fans), we would be safe. After a short celebration we prayed that our 'intel' was solid and got back to work
Oh oh oh -
I suggest the last page be a collection of middle fingers from everyone involved.
Lay them out artistically, also. Like maybe they could spell something out. Like PISS OFF NOA or something.
Or maybe even BOING.
Hell if I know. You guys are the artists. I am merely the frothing-and-pissed-but-finally-happy-this-case-of-gaming-blue-balls-is-over-thanks-to-wonderful-people fan.
I suggest the last page be a collection of middle fingers from everyone involved.
Lay them out artistically, also. Like maybe they could spell something out. Like PISS OFF NOA or something.
Or maybe even BOING.
Hell if I know. You guys are the artists. I am merely the frothing-and-pissed-but-finally-happy-this-case-of-gaming-blue-balls-is-over-thanks-to-wonderful-people fan.
Friend of Sonic
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Oh, lame. It's charging me tax now. I could have sworn it wasn't earlier today.
[quote name='reidman']dyeknom -- I really appreciate you taking the time to go through that stuff. Some of it I had thought of, but you've brought up a few good points that I hadn't considered (specifically the logo and ROM screenshot issues).
Concerning your last point, we actually *did* get a hold of several Nintendo employees in an unofficial capacity. Speaking off the record, they made it clear that we'd have to talk to NCL about getting licensed for anything involving MOTHER 3, and then kinda lol'ed at the idea of a bunch of American fans getting licensed for *anything* through NCL. This is one of the few challenges we've come up against which we've felt genuinely unprepared to tackle, so we chose to leave it alone.
The same employees also said that Nintendo gives Prima (and in the past, I think, Brady) 100% of their players' guide business. So even if NoA was capable of licensing the book, it wouldn't happen as long as we were positioning it as a players guide. Incidentally, this is part of the reason we called it the 'Handbook' and chose to position it as more of a supplement/art book than a walkthrough.
At this point we were pretty despondent and the whole project felt like it was in limbo, but a few weeks later we got a ray of hope. In a nutshell, we were told that as long as we weren't treading on protected ground (i.e. as long as what we're doing isn't a service Nintendo would otherwise provide to its fans), we would be safe. After a short celebration we prayed that our 'intel' was solid and got back to work[/QUOTE]
So freaking cool of you guys. Again hopefully Nintendo just looks the other way.....but they have been asshats recently. I really think you guys should have waited till the last month to announce this project though. Whenever the damn thing was already printing or was atleast close to printing....... This just makes me think back to the Zelda OoT/MM 2D remakes that a fan was making. It was up for months and Nintendo didnt question it then bam after like a year in the making and after the guy had a working build they shut it down.
Concerning your last point, we actually *did* get a hold of several Nintendo employees in an unofficial capacity. Speaking off the record, they made it clear that we'd have to talk to NCL about getting licensed for anything involving MOTHER 3, and then kinda lol'ed at the idea of a bunch of American fans getting licensed for *anything* through NCL. This is one of the few challenges we've come up against which we've felt genuinely unprepared to tackle, so we chose to leave it alone.
The same employees also said that Nintendo gives Prima (and in the past, I think, Brady) 100% of their players' guide business. So even if NoA was capable of licensing the book, it wouldn't happen as long as we were positioning it as a players guide. Incidentally, this is part of the reason we called it the 'Handbook' and chose to position it as more of a supplement/art book than a walkthrough.
At this point we were pretty despondent and the whole project felt like it was in limbo, but a few weeks later we got a ray of hope. In a nutshell, we were told that as long as we weren't treading on protected ground (i.e. as long as what we're doing isn't a service Nintendo would otherwise provide to its fans), we would be safe. After a short celebration we prayed that our 'intel' was solid and got back to work
[/QUOTE]So freaking cool of you guys. Again hopefully Nintendo just looks the other way.....but they have been asshats recently. I really think you guys should have waited till the last month to announce this project though. Whenever the damn thing was already printing or was atleast close to printing....... This just makes me think back to the Zelda OoT/MM 2D remakes that a fan was making. It was up for months and Nintendo didnt question it then bam after like a year in the making and after the guy had a working build they shut it down.
gamegirl79
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[quote name='crunchewy']Making an entirely new game is less work then translating an existing GBA game?[/quote]
From a business perspective, a game like Wii Music equals many more dollar signs for Nintendo than a Mother 3 translation. Fans of Earthbound/Mother are a niche market, while Wii Music will be bought up by the masses.
Anyway, I placed my pre-order for the guide. Looks awesome!
From a business perspective, a game like Wii Music equals many more dollar signs for Nintendo than a Mother 3 translation. Fans of Earthbound/Mother are a niche market, while Wii Music will be bought up by the masses.
Anyway, I placed my pre-order for the guide. Looks awesome!
zenintrude
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[quote name='gamegirl79']From a business perspective, a game like Wii Music equals many more dollar signs for Nintendo than a Mother 3 translation. Fans of Earthbound/Mother are a niche market, while Wii Music will be bought up by the masses.
Anyway, I placed my pre-order for the guide. Looks awesome![/QUOTE]
and it's not just paying a translator/localizer and a handful of programmers to... it's having a graphics artist redesign the logo and manual, a copywriter work on the box and manual text, and all kinds of marketing people (and outside ad agencies) to run a campaign for it, not to mention the cost of manufacturing a product that may not sell.
Anyway, I placed my pre-order for the guide. Looks awesome![/QUOTE]
and it's not just paying a translator/localizer and a handful of programmers to... it's having a graphics artist redesign the logo and manual, a copywriter work on the box and manual text, and all kinds of marketing people (and outside ad agencies) to run a campaign for it, not to mention the cost of manufacturing a product that may not sell.
speedracer
Banned
I've never played any of the series but I've seen all the love it gets. That handbook is friggin amazing dude. Companies can only dream of their customers showing them this kind of love. Here's hoping Nintendo (if they ever catch wind) approaches this the right way and goes with it.
If I had a business brain and an enterprise-sized budget, I'd be trying to turn this little venture into something bigger in a heart beat.
If I had a business brain and an enterprise-sized budget, I'd be trying to turn this little venture into something bigger in a heart beat.
[quote name='zenintrude']and it's not just paying a translator/localizer and a handful of programmers to... it's having a graphics artist redesign the logo and manual, a copywriter work on the box and manual text, and all kinds of marketing people (and outside ad agencies) to run a campaign for it, not to mention the cost of manufacturing a product that may not sell.[/QUOTE]
2 points
1. They dont have to do half that stuff they just choose to. Just reuse the Japanese box art and don't hire tons of ad agencies since its not going to make a huge difference with a game like this one anyways. If they skipped the extras ya there is little chance of the game selling enough to make a huge profit, but it would at least turn profit.
2. This is why I think whenever a company makes a game and fans go through the effort of either remaking it or localizing it they should just pay the fans and use their work. Why not let these guys finish the product and actually back them? Im sure they would appreciate Nintendo backing them and making a little profit for their work and its probably a hell of a lot cheaper for Nintendo then hiring pros. Plus something like a fan made game getting released by Nintendo would get so much freaking media coverage they wouldn't need to market the damn game anyways.
2 points
1. They dont have to do half that stuff they just choose to. Just reuse the Japanese box art and don't hire tons of ad agencies since its not going to make a huge difference with a game like this one anyways. If they skipped the extras ya there is little chance of the game selling enough to make a huge profit, but it would at least turn profit.
2. This is why I think whenever a company makes a game and fans go through the effort of either remaking it or localizing it they should just pay the fans and use their work. Why not let these guys finish the product and actually back them? Im sure they would appreciate Nintendo backing them and making a little profit for their work and its probably a hell of a lot cheaper for Nintendo then hiring pros. Plus something like a fan made game getting released by Nintendo would get so much freaking media coverage they wouldn't need to market the damn game anyways.
V
Virtua
Guest
so is this shipping right away? My card was charged as soon as I put in the order.
Electric Blue
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[quote name='MSI Magus']2 points
1. They dont have to do half that stuff they just choose to. Just reuse the Japanese box art and don't hire tons of ad agencies since its not going to make a huge difference with a game like this one anyways. If they skipped the extras ya there is little chance of the game selling enough to make a huge profit, but it would at least turn profit.
2. This is why I think whenever a company makes a game and fans go through the effort of either remaking it or localizing it they should just pay the fans and use their work. Why not let these guys finish the product and actually back them? Im sure they would appreciate Nintendo backing them and making a little profit for their work and its probably a hell of a lot cheaper for Nintendo then hiring pros. Plus something like a fan made game getting released by Nintendo would get so much freaking media coverage they wouldn't need to market the damn game anyways.[/quote]
Something both you guys didn't consider is the thing that prevents Nintendo from translating Mother 3: opportunity cost. That is, the cost associated with diverting resources towards a particular project instead of another. Nintendo thinks (and they are most likely right) that their resources are better spent developing games with mass appeal rather than translating a niche title like Mother 3.
While I can agree with the "business sense" of it, I think that a company as successful as Nintendo has a responsibility to please its most loyal fans as a thank you for their success. Nintendo does do this, just not in the US. In Japan you have things like Club Ninendo, here we have.... spotty registration on certain games to get free styluses. Yay.
1. They dont have to do half that stuff they just choose to. Just reuse the Japanese box art and don't hire tons of ad agencies since its not going to make a huge difference with a game like this one anyways. If they skipped the extras ya there is little chance of the game selling enough to make a huge profit, but it would at least turn profit.
2. This is why I think whenever a company makes a game and fans go through the effort of either remaking it or localizing it they should just pay the fans and use their work. Why not let these guys finish the product and actually back them? Im sure they would appreciate Nintendo backing them and making a little profit for their work and its probably a hell of a lot cheaper for Nintendo then hiring pros. Plus something like a fan made game getting released by Nintendo would get so much freaking media coverage they wouldn't need to market the damn game anyways.[/quote]
Something both you guys didn't consider is the thing that prevents Nintendo from translating Mother 3: opportunity cost. That is, the cost associated with diverting resources towards a particular project instead of another. Nintendo thinks (and they are most likely right) that their resources are better spent developing games with mass appeal rather than translating a niche title like Mother 3.
While I can agree with the "business sense" of it, I think that a company as successful as Nintendo has a responsibility to please its most loyal fans as a thank you for their success. Nintendo does do this, just not in the US. In Japan you have things like Club Ninendo, here we have.... spotty registration on certain games to get free styluses. Yay.
[quote name='Electric Blue']Something both you guys didn't consider is the thing that prevents Nintendo from translating Mother 3: opportunity cost. That is, the cost associated with diverting resources towards a particular project instead of another. Nintendo thinks (and they are most likely right) that their resources are better spent developing games with mass appeal rather than translating a niche title like Mother 3.
While I can agree with the "business sense" of it, I think that a company as successful as Nintendo has a responsibility to please its most loyal fans as a thank you for their success. Nintendo does do this, just not in the US. In Japan you have things like Club Ninendo, here we have.... spotty registration on certain games to get free styluses. Yay.[/QUOTE]
Why not do as I said and pay the fans for their translation instead?
While I can agree with the "business sense" of it, I think that a company as successful as Nintendo has a responsibility to please its most loyal fans as a thank you for their success. Nintendo does do this, just not in the US. In Japan you have things like Club Ninendo, here we have.... spotty registration on certain games to get free styluses. Yay.[/QUOTE]
Why not do as I said and pay the fans for their translation instead?
[quote name='Electric Blue']
In Japan you have things like Club Ninendo, here we have.... spotty registration on certain games to get free styluses. Yay.[/QUOTE]
I want to point out we are supposed to get Club Nintendo here at some point.
However, I also want to point out that in MY mind - given their track record with this sort of thing - it makes me think "Awesome - just imagine all the downloadable stickers I'll get to play with."
In Japan you have things like Club Ninendo, here we have.... spotty registration on certain games to get free styluses. Yay.[/QUOTE]
I want to point out we are supposed to get Club Nintendo here at some point.
However, I also want to point out that in MY mind - given their track record with this sort of thing - it makes me think "Awesome - just imagine all the downloadable stickers I'll get to play with."
[quote name='MSI Magus']
2. This is why I think whenever a company makes a game and fans go through the effort of either remaking it or localizing it they should just pay the fans and use their work. Why not let these guys finish the product and actually back them? [/QUOTE]
C'mon dood. This is opening up a legal nightmare. Really simple idea here - when money becomes involved, people change. There's been all sorts of people involved in Mother 3 at this point, and collecting them all up for a payday would result in a cluster of people claiming they deserve more than the other guy, or deserve more money down the road, or want royalties, etc etc etc etc.
It's just a can of worms that no one is willing to go through. Nintendo has a legal staff that's working with all sorts of shit at the moment, and the last thing they want to wrangle with is a bunch of (in their mind) "kids" who had nothing better to do than translate a game.
The other side of this is that Nintendo could - at any moment - claim this was an illegal use of their properties for any number of reasons lawyers could make up on the spot, and then turn the whole thing around and sue those individuals.
It's better they not get involved at this point in terms of paying out fees/stipends/salaries/whatever you want to call it. That's just chaos waiting to happen.
2. This is why I think whenever a company makes a game and fans go through the effort of either remaking it or localizing it they should just pay the fans and use their work. Why not let these guys finish the product and actually back them? [/QUOTE]
C'mon dood. This is opening up a legal nightmare. Really simple idea here - when money becomes involved, people change. There's been all sorts of people involved in Mother 3 at this point, and collecting them all up for a payday would result in a cluster
of people claiming they deserve more than the other guy, or deserve more money down the road, or want royalties, etc etc etc etc.It's just a can of worms that no one is willing to go through. Nintendo has a legal staff that's working with all sorts of shit at the moment, and the last thing they want to wrangle with is a bunch of (in their mind) "kids" who had nothing better to do than translate a game.
The other side of this is that Nintendo could - at any moment - claim this was an illegal use of their properties for any number of reasons lawyers could make up on the spot, and then turn the whole thing around and sue those individuals.
It's better they not get involved at this point in terms of paying out fees/stipends/salaries/whatever you want to call it. That's just chaos waiting to happen.
zenintrude
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[quote name='Electric Blue']Something both you guys didn't consider is the thing that prevents Nintendo from translating Mother 3: opportunity cost. That is, the cost associated with diverting resources towards a particular project instead of another. Nintendo thinks (and they are most likely right) that their resources are better spent developing games with mass appeal rather than translating a niche title like Mother 3.
While I can agree with the "business sense" of it, I think that a company as successful as Nintendo has a responsibility to please its most loyal fans as a thank you for their success. Nintendo does do this, just not in the US. In Japan you have things like Club Ninendo, here we have.... spotty registration on certain games to get free styluses. Yay.[/QUOTE]
the problem with this is that once your flash in the pan days are over (as will probably occur with nintendo and the wii sooner or later), they will have alienated both the mainstream and core audiences. they're already working hard on alienating both, as can be seen in their decisions to focus on "casual" games and choosing to ignore games such as Mother 3 and Disaster: Day of Crisis (both of which the core demographic have been clamoring for) while causing the casual crowd (who are much less willing to put up with the struggle of finding rare video games) to succumb to low quantities of games (i.e. wii fit) while pushing wii fit branded accessories (like wii fit water bottles and sweatbands) for ridiculously high prices (selling a plastic water bottle for $8 because it has "wii fit" screened onto it is *not* a good idea).
While I can agree with the "business sense" of it, I think that a company as successful as Nintendo has a responsibility to please its most loyal fans as a thank you for their success. Nintendo does do this, just not in the US. In Japan you have things like Club Ninendo, here we have.... spotty registration on certain games to get free styluses. Yay.[/QUOTE]
the problem with this is that once your flash in the pan days are over (as will probably occur with nintendo and the wii sooner or later), they will have alienated both the mainstream and core audiences. they're already working hard on alienating both, as can be seen in their decisions to focus on "casual" games and choosing to ignore games such as Mother 3 and Disaster: Day of Crisis (both of which the core demographic have been clamoring for) while causing the casual crowd (who are much less willing to put up with the struggle of finding rare video games) to succumb to low quantities of games (i.e. wii fit) while pushing wii fit branded accessories (like wii fit water bottles and sweatbands) for ridiculously high prices (selling a plastic water bottle for $8 because it has "wii fit" screened onto it is *not* a good idea).
zenintrude
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[quote name='MSI Magus']
2. This is why I think whenever a company makes a game and fans go through the effort of either remaking it or localizing it they should just pay the fans and use their work. Why not let these guys finish the product and actually back them? Im sure they would appreciate Nintendo backing them and making a little profit for their work and its probably a hell of a lot cheaper for Nintendo then hiring pros. Plus something like a fan made game getting released by Nintendo would get so much freaking media coverage they wouldn't need to market the damn game anyways.[/QUOTE]
this can and will never happen... for reasons that would be far too lengthy to post here.
2. This is why I think whenever a company makes a game and fans go through the effort of either remaking it or localizing it they should just pay the fans and use their work. Why not let these guys finish the product and actually back them? Im sure they would appreciate Nintendo backing them and making a little profit for their work and its probably a hell of a lot cheaper for Nintendo then hiring pros. Plus something like a fan made game getting released by Nintendo would get so much freaking media coverage they wouldn't need to market the damn game anyways.[/QUOTE]
this can and will never happen... for reasons that would be far too lengthy to post here.
[quote name='Strell']C'mon dood. This is opening up a legal nightmare. Really simple idea here - when money becomes involved, people change. There's been all sorts of people involved in Mother 3 at this point, and collecting them all up for a payday would result in a cluster of people claiming they deserve more than the other guy, or deserve more money down the road, or want royalties, etc etc etc etc.
It's just a can of worms that no one is willing to go through. Nintendo has a legal staff that's working with all sorts of shit at the moment, and the last thing they want to wrangle with is a bunch of (in their mind) "kids" who had nothing better to do than translate a game.
The other side of this is that Nintendo could - at any moment - claim this was an illegal use of their properties for any number of reasons lawyers could make up on the spot, and then turn the whole thing around and sue those individuals.
It's better they not get involved at this point in terms of paying out fees/stipends/salaries/whatever you want to call it. That's just chaos waiting to happen.[/QUOTE]
In this case you have a point(less its only 2 or 3 guys doing this)but in many others its moot. For instance the OoT 2D remake was 1 freaking guy doing all the work. Nintendo could have easily let the guy finish his game and payed him.
of people claiming they deserve more than the other guy, or deserve more money down the road, or want royalties, etc etc etc etc.It's just a can of worms that no one is willing to go through. Nintendo has a legal staff that's working with all sorts of shit at the moment, and the last thing they want to wrangle with is a bunch of (in their mind) "kids" who had nothing better to do than translate a game.
The other side of this is that Nintendo could - at any moment - claim this was an illegal use of their properties for any number of reasons lawyers could make up on the spot, and then turn the whole thing around and sue those individuals.
It's better they not get involved at this point in terms of paying out fees/stipends/salaries/whatever you want to call it. That's just chaos waiting to happen.[/QUOTE]
In this case you have a point(less its only 2 or 3 guys doing this)but in many others its moot. For instance the OoT 2D remake was 1 freaking guy doing all the work. Nintendo could have easily let the guy finish his game and payed him.
[quote name='MSI Magus']In this case you have a point(less its only 2 or 3 guys doing this)but in many others its moot. For instance the OoT 2D remake was 1 freaking guy doing all the work. Nintendo could have easily let the guy finish his game and payed him.[/QUOTE]
That's my point - it's naive to think "it's only 2-3 people" or even "it was only one guy making Zelda 2D."
When the friends of those people learn that someone is getting pizzaid, you don't think they'll come down and start claiming a right to payment? "Yeah I totally told that bitch to make the game and even made a sandwich for him one night, so I'm like, a caterer, you know? Where's my money - I'm part of this."
It's basic human nature to want to be rewarded, and all I'm saying is that the second you underestimate that, you're in trouble. This is why Nintendo doesn't want to get caught up with dealing with a bunch of people they don't have on a payroll - they've got NO CLUE how much work they've done, how much money they'd want, who exactly needs to get paid, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc ETC ETC ETC.
It doesn't work like that. Just because - in some sense - these guys "should" get paid and "should" be recognized for their work doesn't mean getting a legal department of a major corporation is going to happen. It's not worth it. There's too many loopholes and inconsistencies to deal with. Too many people who might be lying, or might be exaggerating, etc etc.
I assure you that no lawyer who is worth their salt wants to get tangled up in that.
That's my point - it's naive to think "it's only 2-3 people" or even "it was only one guy making Zelda 2D."
When the friends of those people learn that someone is getting pizzaid, you don't think they'll come down and start claiming a right to payment? "Yeah I totally told that bitch to make the game and even made a sandwich for him one night, so I'm like, a caterer, you know? Where's my money - I'm part of this."
It's basic human nature to want to be rewarded, and all I'm saying is that the second you underestimate that, you're in trouble. This is why Nintendo doesn't want to get caught up with dealing with a bunch of people they don't have on a payroll - they've got NO CLUE how much work they've done, how much money they'd want, who exactly needs to get paid, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc ETC ETC ETC.
It doesn't work like that. Just because - in some sense - these guys "should" get paid and "should" be recognized for their work doesn't mean getting a legal department of a major corporation is going to happen. It's not worth it. There's too many loopholes and inconsistencies to deal with. Too many people who might be lying, or might be exaggerating, etc etc.
I assure you that no lawyer who is worth their salt wants to get tangled up in that.
Takeda Kenshi
CAGiversary!
Holy Jebus Christ is that awesome... think I'll wait till the guide is closer to being finished to pull the trigger. Thanks for the heads up OP. 
[quote name='zenintrude']the problem with this is that once your flash in the pan days are over (as will probably occur with nintendo and the wii sooner or later), they will have alienated both the mainstream and core audiences. they're already working hard on alienating both, as can be seen in their decisions to focus on "casual" games and choosing to ignore games such as Mother 3 and Disaster: Day of Crisis (both of which the core demographic have been clamoring for) while causing the casual crowd (who are much less willing to put up with the struggle of finding rare video games) to succumb to low quantities of games (i.e. wii fit) while pushing wii fit branded accessories (like wii fit water bottles and sweatbands) for ridiculously high prices (selling a plastic water bottle for $8 because it has "wii fit" screened onto it is *not* a good idea).[/QUOTE]
1. Nintendo has no control over that water bottle. None. That's Best Buy's doing (or any other retailer who is also in on it) and you can take it up with them.
2. Mother 3 wouldn't appease even the core crowds. Let's be honest here - I'm about as big of an EB/Mother fan as you can get, but even I can face the facts that tell me that Nintendo doesn't see it as profitable because it probably isn't. Now if the translation gets downloaded 100,000 times and we have ABSOLUTE PROOF of that, then that's another story. But I'm willing to bet you couldn't manage half of that, and even then that's not big profits either way.
It would appease some of the core crowds. But those core crowds have to be Nintendo fans to begin with, and then on top of that be Mother fans. The average GTA/Halo/Madden fan doesn't give a shit about Mother. Hell, most JRPG kids don't. Even a full release from Nintendo would garner little praise and would quickly be forgotten.
3. This has been debated dozens of times before so I won't go into it much, but Nintendo is releasing games for the core crowd at a blistering streak with the Wii. It's simply that no one considers them that anymore. And I'm not talking about Animal Crossing. I'm talking about Battalion Wars, Fire Emblem, Wario, and all the other usual franchises. Then there's games like No More Heroes. I will AGREE that it could be better, but everyone is so caught up on Nintendo releasing things like Wii Music and Wii Fit that they are blinded from looking at the core games that HAVE come out.
I do tend to agree that their next generation is in huge trouble, since I can't see the casual owner wanting to buy a new system down the road, and the core gamers are too busy being full of themselves that they'll shun it also.
1. Nintendo has no control over that water bottle. None. That's Best Buy's doing (or any other retailer who is also in on it) and you can take it up with them.
2. Mother 3 wouldn't appease even the core crowds. Let's be honest here - I'm about as big of an EB/Mother fan as you can get, but even I can face the facts that tell me that Nintendo doesn't see it as profitable because it probably isn't. Now if the translation gets downloaded 100,000 times and we have ABSOLUTE PROOF of that, then that's another story. But I'm willing to bet you couldn't manage half of that, and even then that's not big profits either way.
It would appease some of the core crowds. But those core crowds have to be Nintendo fans to begin with, and then on top of that be Mother fans. The average GTA/Halo/Madden fan doesn't give a shit about Mother. Hell, most JRPG kids don't. Even a full release from Nintendo would garner little praise and would quickly be forgotten.
3. This has been debated dozens of times before so I won't go into it much, but Nintendo is releasing games for the core crowd at a blistering streak with the Wii. It's simply that no one considers them that anymore. And I'm not talking about Animal Crossing. I'm talking about Battalion Wars, Fire Emblem, Wario, and all the other usual franchises. Then there's games like No More Heroes. I will AGREE that it could be better, but everyone is so caught up on Nintendo releasing things like Wii Music and Wii Fit that they are blinded from looking at the core games that HAVE come out.
I do tend to agree that their next generation is in huge trouble, since I can't see the casual owner wanting to buy a new system down the road, and the core gamers are too busy being full of themselves that they'll shun it also.
UberNinjaz
CAGiversary!
[quote name='crunchewy']Making an entirely new game is less work then translating an existing GBA game?[/quote]
Not sure if you were trying to point out a flaw there but try again next time.
Not sure if you were trying to point out a flaw there but try again next time.
I definitely want this thing, looks freaken awesome, I think all those involved making it deserve some kind of Nobel Peace Price...
Anyway, my only wish is that they would offer Media Mail as a shipping option... Priority is good, but cheaper is better for me...
Anyway, my only wish is that they would offer Media Mail as a shipping option... Priority is good, but cheaper is better for me...
Promophile
CAGiversary!
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I would love to see Fangamer get licensed by Nintendo like King of Games in Japan. Doubt it would happen though, US game publishers, for the most part, don't care about "fan service" like they do in Japan.
It's amazing how much fanship this series has. And it's also amazing how Nintendo continues to ignore them.
I really want this but I'll be sour if Nintendo shuts his down. Plus, it doesn't ship until January? That's a pretty long ways away- enough time for the guy to keep the money if there are any issues.
k
BTW, any info on how long it will be? Any info on the dimensions? If it's like those small DoubleJump Books then I'm out- I hate those. Also, is it a hardcover?
Nevermind, didn't notice the info page.
I really want this but I'll be sour if Nintendo shuts his down. Plus, it doesn't ship until January? That's a pretty long ways away- enough time for the guy to keep the money if there are any issues.
k Nevermind, didn't notice the info page.
BTW: in case anyone didn't know, Mother 3 just got translated into english for the gba by a group of fans. http://mother3.fobby.net/
mykevermin
CAGiversary!
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no shit?
[quote name='reidman']dyeknom -- I really appreciate you taking the time to go through that stuff. Some of it I had thought of, but you've brought up a few good points that I hadn't considered (specifically the logo and ROM screenshot issues).
[/QUOTE]
You can safely ignore him. He either has no legal training at all, or is a student at a very bad law school. Much of his post is misleading and filled with legal buzzwords applied incorrectly. Further, any lawyer would know better than to opine on the applicability of law to a set of facts when dealing with a nonclient because such behavior creates malpractice exposure.
[/QUOTE]
You can safely ignore him. He either has no legal training at all, or is a student at a very bad law school. Much of his post is misleading and filled with legal buzzwords applied incorrectly. Further, any lawyer would know better than to opine on the applicability of law to a set of facts when dealing with a nonclient because such behavior creates malpractice exposure.
mykevermin
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
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^ or you should watch out for an invoice!
bread's done