FDA Proposes New, Graphic Warnings For Cigarettes

[quote name='Knoell']He is talking about the people who fake cough when they walk by people who smoke. Some may have allergies but I don't doubt most peoples ability to be assholes.

It is similiar to people who make comments about public displays of affection as they are walking by.
(minus the health risk obviously, calm down its just an example)
Some people don't care and continue walking, some people are offended but just keep walking, some people are truely offended by it, and some people feel the need to make their opinion known via body language, or commentary. Does PDA hurt them as they are walking by? No, but these are the type of people I believe Sporadic is talking about.[/QUOTE]

Kind of strange to see this from Knoell but he's right. I don't smoke, my grandma died from emphysema and my mom will most likely die from some type of smoking related illness (so I have no real horse in the race) but I do hang out with friends when they smoke. This isn't an allergy thing, this is a passive aggressive action. A little "cough-cough" with a dirty look as they walk by. Really? You can't be around smoke for less than 30 seconds before coughing? How do you live in the city?

And what do they expect from the smoker? They are either already in the smoking section outside or standing by the door, when it's cold, trying to finish. If they were really the giant assholes you think they are, they would be inside smoking or not in the smoking section.

[quote name='vherub']It would make more sense to require all the ingredients listed on the side of a pack. There wouldn't be room for anything else.
But if you wanted to deter new smokers, raise the price. WAY UP. Put it to $20/pack. Use those funds to provide free support for those who want to break the addiction.
At the same time, do not apply the increased tax to loose tobacco so smokers have options than getting hosed.[/QUOTE]

fuck that.

If you want to get rid of them so badly, just ban them. It does no good to punish addicts (both poor and rich) with insane prices.

The only way most will quit is if you take away all options.
 
Actually them standing near doors is one thing that pisses me off the most. Can't help but walk through a cloud of smoke to get in or out of a building.
 
[quote name='Clak']That's what I mean by not having much sympathy for them. You can't expect people to when you act like such an ass. I actually had someone throw a still lit cigarrette out of their car window and hit my car once.[/QUOTE]

Once!? I've had that on more than one occasion...
 
[quote name='Clak']That's what I mean by not having much sympathy for them. You can't expect people to when you act like such an ass. I actually had someone throw a still lit cigarrette out of their car window and hit my car once.[/QUOTE]

Allow me to one up you and say that I had someone flick a lit cigarrette out their car and come into the car I was in through the sunroof and right into my lap. What's fascinating about it was it was at night so I saw the orange glow floating through the air almost in slow motion, thinking "No way it makes it through the sunroof. On an interstate no less, a one in a million shot.

Anyway, I'm surprised that no one else here posted the "life imitating art" angle. This was the same thing proposed in the satrical Thank You for Smoking. See around 4:20 (heh heh) of the clip below.

[youtube]596DgHsNzTM&[/youtube]
 
[quote name='javeryh']At some point in the future historians will look back and wonder why the hell anyone ever smoked.[/QUOTE]
There was an episode of Star Trek DS9 where Quark and his family end up back in the 40s during WW2. He tells the guy he should take better care of himself. I thought the same thing you posted.
 
[quote name='hostyl1']
Anyway, I'm surprised that no one else here posted the "life imitating art" angle. This was the same thing proposed in the satrical Thank You for Smoking. See around 4:20 (heh heh) of the clip below.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't quite sure what to think of that movie after I saw it back then... I was intending funny and it wasn't really. Then I thought ok... More sarcastic bs for why non smokers should leave smokers alone with their... bad habits and bad choices... no. Ok, so then... Why people should stop smoking? no... Ugh... I give up. I really don't remember it so I could be wrong. I guess it was THAT memorable of a movie.
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']I wasn't quite sure what to think of that movie after I saw it back then... I was intending funny and it wasn't really. Then I thought ok... More sarcastic bs for why non smokers should leave smokers alone with their... bad habits and bad choices... no. Ok, so then... Why people should stop smoking? no... Ugh... I give up. I really don't remember it so I could be wrong. I guess it was THAT memorable of a movie.[/QUOTE]

My wife loves it, but I agree with you and thought it was a terrible movie that could not decide what it wanted to be.
 
I enjoyed the movie. The movie doesn't really seem to make a judgement on smoking, but it's an interesting look at the machinations of the industry that a vast majority of the population has no clue about.
 
fuck you people who smoke !!

I cant stand the smell of the smoke, the smell of the people who smoke, and the sight of a 16 year old trying to look like a complete bad ass smoking. Ugh cant stand it. If your going to smoke something atleast smoke pot or something.

That came out completely wrong.
 
[quote name='javeryh']At some point in the future historians will look back and wonder why the hell anyone ever smoked.[/QUOTE]

I can't wait for the future. It's going to be a mix of Dexter's Lab (that one episode of where Dexter gets swapped in the supermarket to a super smart family and eats a single pill in the morning for breakfast) and Barbarella/Demolition Man (ugh, why would you ever have physical sex?) if certain people have their way.

It's not that hard to figure out. People smoke for the same reason they have sex, eat junk food, jump out of planes, drive cars really fast, gamble, drink booze, dance for hours, fight, play video games, etc, etc, etc. All of those things are potentially bad but it makes them feel good so fuck it. We aren't going to live forever.

Although I hope you are right but for other reasons. Hopefully they will look back and wonder why the hell anyone ever smoked tobacco...because there is something new and even better out there, that puts cigarettes to shame, that's legal with little to no health risks.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']I can't wait for the future. It's going to be a mix of Dexter's Lab (that one episode of where Dexter gets swapped in the supermarket to a super smart family and eats a single pill in the morning for breakfast) and Barbarella/Demolition Man (ugh, why would you ever have physical sex?) if certain people have their way.

It's not that hard to figure out. People smoke for the same reason they have sex, eat junk food, jump out of planes, drive cars really fast, gamble, drink booze, dance for hours, fight, play video games, etc, etc, etc. All of those things are potentially bad but it makes them feel good so fuck it. We aren't going to live forever.

Although I hope you are right but for other reasons. Hopefully they will look back and wonder why the hell anyone ever smoked tobacco...because there is something new and even better out there, that puts cigarettes to shame, that's legal with little to no health risks.[/QUOTE]

I would agree if not for the fact that there are millions of better things to smoke and dozens of better ways to smoke. If people smoked but used things like vaporizers to get their buzz your point would stand much stronger.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']I would agree if not for the fact that there are millions of better things to smoke and dozens of better ways to smoke. If people smoked but used things like vaporizers to get their buzz your point would stand much stronger.[/QUOTE]

There maybe better things to smoke but how many of those are legal?
Vaporizers are expensive, not exactly portable, and are more associated with pot.
 
[quote name='Clak']That is crazy, did it burn you or the seat?[/QUOTE]

Like I said, I saw it incoming (but couldnt bring myself to stop it ;)) so when it hit my lap, I felt it, but only for a half-a-second. Then I just knocked it onto the floor mat and stamped it out.

I'm a former smoker (but not a militant non-smoker). I encourage all the people I know to quit, but I'm not one of the "cough-cough" crowd. If thirty seconds of smoke is gonna kill you, you probably shouldnt be outside to begin with. You'll be breathing in far more carcinogens from car exhaust.

As for Thank You for Smoking I just took it as a satirical look at the cigarette industry and those that fight it. I never thought it was trying to take a side. I found it an interesting 'instant watch' on Netflix.
 
"I actually had someone throw a still lit cigarrette out of their car window and hit my car once."

That isn't an accident about the half the time, it's sometimes the smokers version of the middle finger: get off my ass buddy.
 
I'm a smoker but normally only when I party or am really stressed out.

Yes it is a dirty nasty habit. I will admit that I was one of the ones that thought it was cool... when I was 12. I've been smoking for ten years now and try not to but I live in an area where pretty much EVERYONE smokes cigs. Makes it kind of hard to quit when your around them constantly, every single day.

But, it was MY choice, a bad one perhaps, but I don't think it is any of the government's business.

As for smokers outside of businesses, that is for the business itself to enforce as far as I'm concerned. If you chose to avoid these places, more businesses will prohibit smoking around the building because it looks bad on them and is costing them business. THAT is the way to change things, not legislation.
 
^Can't believe I'm gonna say this but.. Next to a Tobacco chewers bad habit I'd GLADLY take a smoker. They Make smokers look "clean"...

[quote name='Sporadic']I can't wait for the future. It's going to be a mix of Dexter's Lab (that one episode of where Dexter gets swapped in the supermarket to a super smart family and eats a single pill in the morning for breakfast) and Barbarella/Demolition Man (ugh, why would you ever have physical sex?) if certain people have their way. [/QUOTE]

Why stop there when we can get rid of Sense offenders like in Equilibrium too? LOL
 
[quote name='Liberty1']I'm a smoker but normally only when I party or am really stressed out.

Yes it is a dirty nasty habit. I will admit that I was one of the ones that thought it was cool... when I was 12. I've been smoking for ten years now and try not to but I live in an area where pretty much EVERYONE smokes cigs. Makes it kind of hard to quit when your around them constantly, every single day.

But, it was MY choice, a bad one perhaps, but I don't think it is any of the government's business.

As for smokers outside of businesses, that is for the business itself to enforce as far as I'm concerned. If you chose to avoid these places, more businesses will prohibit smoking around the building because it looks bad on them and is costing them business. THAT is the way to change things, not legislation.[/QUOTE]

Well until you get cancer, that is when it is the governments business, specifically as you most likely benefit from govt funded hospitals and receive treatment that was developed by govt research programs.
 
@cindersphere: That isn't my fault, that is a problem with the system. The system is already exploited by many illegal immigrants and freeloaders. Lock me out in the street with the rest of the parasites, I don't expect to be treated any differently.
 
[quote name='Liberty1']@cindersphere: That isn't my fault, that is a problem with the system. The system is already exploited by many illegal immigrants and freeloaders. Lock me out in the street with the rest of the parasites, I don't expect to be treated any differently.[/QUOTE]

Funny. I can't remember the last illegal immigrant that came into my O.R. Please stop listening to all the bullshit the Republicans throw out there to make illegals seem like "parasites."
 
[quote name='depascal22']Funny. I can't remember the last illegal immigrant that came into my O.R. Please stop listening to all the bullshit the Republicans throw out there to make illegals seem like "parasites."[/QUOTE]

I went to the emergency room in the richest county of America, and treatment was delayed because the folks in front of me needed a translator (travel documents, payment, etc). The trash spewed by cindersphere is racist, vile, and worthless to a productive dialogue. But let's not pretend that the state of US healthcare is dandy because there are a plethora of emergency rooms across the country that are in financial distress.

IMO we have a decision to make. Do Americans want to be a compassinate people - do they want to live up to their so-called Christian belief system. Or do they just want to take a "hard look at the facts" and go anarcho-capitalist on healthcare.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Funny. I can't remember the last illegal immigrant that came into my O.R. Please stop listening to all the bullshit the Republicans throw out there to make illegals seem like "parasites."[/QUOTE]

Are you serious? I would say on average when I'm on call, probably around a quarter of patients I see in the ER/admit to the hospital are undocumented.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']I can't wait for the future. It's going to be a mix of Dexter's Lab (that one episode of where Dexter gets swapped in the supermarket to a super smart family and eats a single pill in the morning for breakfast) and Barbarella/Demolition Man (ugh, why would you ever have physical sex?) if certain people have their way.

It's not that hard to figure out. People smoke for the same reason they have sex, eat junk food, jump out of planes, drive cars really fast, gamble, drink booze, dance for hours, fight, play video games, etc, etc, etc. All of those things are potentially bad but it makes them feel good so fuck it. We aren't going to live forever.

Although I hope you are right but for other reasons. Hopefully they will look back and wonder why the hell anyone ever smoked tobacco...because there is something new and even better out there, that puts cigarettes to shame, that's legal with little to no health risks.[/QUOTE]

As an optimist, I always think of the future as ST:TNG where abrahamic religion, physically invasive surgery, and captialism are seen as either relics of the dark ages or completely the provence of lesser species (like the goddamn ferengi)
 
I don't mind smoking, there's something cultural about the whole thing -- I'd almost be sad to see it disappear.

I personally don't smoke, maybe take a few drags when the party steps outside and I'm drunk -- but I feel nasty about it the next day. I can see the appeal, but I also don't see how you could let yourself get addicted -- it just seems like such a miserable lifestyle having to step out into the cold every hour, not to mention the insane amounts of money it costs you.


But as a little activity to relieve stress or to socialize on certain occasions, I don't have a problem with them. You feel like a badass too (people should stop trying to deny that).
 
[quote name='Sporadic']It's not that hard to figure out. People smoke for the same reason they have sex, eat junk food, jump out of planes, drive cars really fast, gamble, drink booze, dance for hours, fight, play video games, etc, etc, etc. All of those things are potentially bad but it makes them feel good so fuck it. We aren't going to live forever[/QUOTE]

yeah fuck it. I'm going to go dance for hours. fuck IT!!!!!! Im a REBEL!!!1!
 
[quote name='camoor']As an optimist, I always think of the future as ST:TNG where abrahamic religion, physically invasive surgery, and captialism are seen as either relics of the dark ages or completely the provence of lesser species (like the goddamn ferengi)[/QUOTE]
I used to think that, but I've realized that religion will never be completely left behind. Even the creators of ST knew that, otherwise the Bajorans wouldn't have been so religious. Though they did at least acknowledge in the show that they were really aliens that they worshiped and not some sort of gods.
 
As an optimist, I always think of the future as ST:TNG where abrahamic religion, physically invasive surgery, and captialism are seen as either relics of the dark ages or completely the provence of lesser species (like the goddamn ferengi)
Click to expand...

Society cannot function without rewarding individuals that do more to answer societies needs. You cannot tie down a great mind to the inept and the lazy. What gives anyone a reason to be anything more than lazy?

I suppose some would say that you would be obligated by the greater good, that you owe society. But that isn't how humans work, humans need to be rewarded for their success, we aren't ants.
 
Most illegals don't pay taxes and that is a fact. Kind of hard to pay taxes when filling out a tax form could get you deported.

Most illegals drive on our roads, but they don't pay taxes.

Most illegals will need some form of health care at some point, but they don't pay taxes.

Any children the illegals have are US citizens and get all the "benefits" that it entitles, but their parents don't pay taxes.

You know, I'm failing to see how this dosen't qualify as a parasite?
 
[quote name='Liberty1']Most illegals don't pay taxes and that is a fact. Kind of hard to pay taxes when filling out a tax form could get you deported.

Most illegals drive on our roads, but they don't pay taxes.

Most illegals will need some form of health care at some point, but they don't pay taxes.

Any children the illegals have are US citizens and get all the "benefits" that it entitles, but their parents don't pay taxes.

You know, I'm failing to see how this dosen't qualify as a parasite?[/QUOTE]

they pay sales tax though, so they are even.
;) I thought I would point that out before they try to use it as a legitimate argument.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Are you serious? I would say on average when I'm on call, probably around a quarter of patients I see in the ER/admit to the hospital are undocumented.[/QUOTE]

Not here. I see plenty of good ole boys that provide just as much drain as any illegal.

And Knoell, nobody said that illegals are even because they pay sales tax. It's just one example of a tax that can be used to counter the "Illegals don't pay ANY tax" argument that Liberty and his pals love to make. They also pay taxes on gasoline, alcohol, cigarettes, and a plethora of other things that are taxed on purchase.

Nah, it's way more honest to say they don't pay ANY taxes right?
 
[quote name='depascal22']Not here. I see plenty of good ole boys that provide just as much drain as any illegal.

And Knoell, nobody said that illegals are even because they pay sales tax. It's just one example of a tax that can be used to counter the "Illegals don't pay ANY tax" argument that Liberty and his pals love to make. They also pay taxes on gasoline, alcohol, cigarettes, and a plethora of other things that are taxed on purchase.

Nah, it's way more honest to say they don't pay ANY taxes right?[/QUOTE]

Both sides use those arguments to the extreme. One side says they don't pay any tax. The other side says they don't receive the benefits of taxes, such as social security when they do pay in.

Both arguments are intentionally misleading, however I believe illegal immigrants pay into the system a fraction of the time, and I believe they use the resources provided by those taxes more than that. There isn't a balance, and it needs to be looked at.

Amnesty would make life better for all illegal immigrants, if we would just secure the border.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Both sides use those arguments to the extreme. One side says they don't pay any tax. The other side says they don't receive the benefits of taxes, such as social security when they do pay in.

Both arguments are intentionally misleading, however I believe illegal immigrants pay into the system a fraction of the time, and I believe they use the resources provided by those taxes more than that. There isn't a balance, and it needs to be looked at.

Amnesty would make life better for all illegal immigrants, if we would just secure the border.[/QUOTE]

What if it costs more to secure the border than to provide some basic services to illegals? Wouldn't it be more humane to just allow them to scrape by?
 
[quote name='depascal22']What if it costs more to secure the border than to provide some basic services to illegals? Wouldn't it be more humane to just allow them to scrape by?[/QUOTE]

With the increased revenue of then legal immigrants paying taxes? I am not sure if you are being sarcastic? If we are going to keep people in this country and pretend they are legal then we should offer them the same services that ordinary tax paying citizens get. My only requirements are that we secure the border so that we do not have the same problem 10 years from now. And also we make them citizens and eliminate the illegal but legal situation that most illegal immigrants are in. Make it illegal to be illegal.

The only downside to securing the border is the cost, and I think the benefits of securing the border far outweigh the cost.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Not here. I see plenty of good ole boys that provide just as much drain as any illegal.

And Knoell, nobody said that illegals are even because they pay sales tax. It's just one example of a tax that can be used to counter the "Illegals don't pay ANY tax" argument that Liberty and his pals love to make. They also pay taxes on gasoline, alcohol, cigarettes, and a plethora of other things that are taxed on purchase.

Nah, it's way more honest to say they don't pay ANY taxes right?[/QUOTE]

If we went to a consumption-based tax system for funding the Federal government, then everyone would pay in taxes to the Federal Government...
 
[quote name='camoor']I went to the emergency room in the richest county of America, and treatment was delayed because the folks in front of me needed a translator (travel documents, payment, etc). The trash spewed by cindersphere is racist, vile, and worthless to a productive dialogue. But let's not pretend that the state of US healthcare is dandy because there are a plethora of emergency rooms across the country that are in financial distress.

IMO we have a decision to make. Do Americans want to be a compassinate people - do they want to live up to their so-called Christian belief system. Or do they just want to take a "hard look at the facts" and go anarcho-capitalist on healthcare.[/QUOTE]

Wait a fucking minute, how is anything I have stated in this entire thread at all, racist of vile, it is definitely worthless but how do you get racist and vile from one sentence, which was specifically aimed at his hinted notion that his decision does not affect the govt and as such they should stay out of his business. So would you kindly point out, specifically, why that makes me a person pushing forth a racist and vile argument at fucking all. Because I am in favor of providing basic health care to everyone regardless of citizenship status, considering some of my friends are not legal citizens and I want them and people like them not to die outside a hospital due to citizenship status. So please enlighten me as to how I have been racist and vile below is the only thing I have posted in this entire thread, please point out to me where it is racist and vile.

"Well until you get cancer, that is when it is the governments business, specifically as you most likely benefit from govt funded hospitals and receive treatment that was developed by govt research programs."
 
[quote name='Knoell']With the increased revenue of then legal immigrants paying taxes? I am not sure if you are being sarcastic? If we are going to keep people in this country and pretend they are legal then we should offer them the same services that ordinary tax paying citizens get. My only requirements are that we secure the border so that we do not have the same problem 10 years from now. And also we make them citizens and eliminate the illegal but legal situation that most illegal immigrants are in. Make it illegal to be illegal.

The only downside to securing the border is the cost, and I think the benefits of securing the border far outweigh the cost.[/QUOTE]

Think about it. What if it's cheaper to provide emergent healthcare and basic education instead of building (and manning) a wall that spans the entire southern border?

Would you increase the deficit JUST to keep illegals out?
 
[quote name='cindersphere']Wait a fucking minute, how is anything I have stated in this entire thread at all, racist of vile, it is definitely worthless but how do you get racist and vile from one sentence, which was specifically aimed at his hinted notion that his decision does not affect the govt and as such they should stay out of his business. So would you kindly point out, specifically, why that makes me a person pushing forth a racist and vile argument at fucking all. Because I am in favor of providing basic health care to everyone regardless of citizenship status, considering some of my friends are not legal citizens and I want them and people like them not to die outside a hospital due to citizenship status. So please enlighten me as to how I have been racist and vile below is the only thing I have posted in this entire thread, please point out to me where it is racist and vile.

"Well until you get cancer, that is when it is the governments business, specifically as you most likely benefit from govt funded hospitals and receive treatment that was developed by govt research programs."[/QUOTE]

I see - it was Liberty1 who said that. You seem like an OK dude, sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
I don't get the whole wall thing, it never works. You want proof, ask the Chinese. They can either go under it, over it, or through it (yeah Mexicans have heard of dynamite).
 
Yes, they pay sales taxes. Does that make my argument wrong? And it has nothing to do with race, I hate everyone that takes advantage of the system equally.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Think about it. What if it's cheaper to provide emergent healthcare and basic education instead of building (and manning) a wall that spans the entire southern border?

Would you increase the deficit JUST to keep illegals out?[/QUOTE]

NEWSFLASH Illegal immigrants already cost our government money, to argue otherwise is dishonest.

I don't understand how you can argue that we do not already provide emergency health care, and basic eduation already.

Because not stopping more illegal immigrants from coming into the country is the perfect solution to our budget problems. :roll::roll::roll:

Even if we break even, then at least our citizens will be taken care of as citizens, and our border will be secure from terrorism, drugs, etc.

Enough of this "well illegals are legal, but not really" bullshit. Either they are citizens, or they are illegal, but pick one, and act accordingly to not continue to put us in such situations.
 
[quote name='Clak']I don't get the whole wall thing, it never works. You want proof, ask the Chinese. They can either go under it, over it, or through it (yeah Mexicans have heard of dynamite).[/QUOTE]

Reminds me of that Penn & Teller episode on Immigration where they built a piece of a fence like the one used on the border and had three teams of illegals (that built it) try to get through it (one over, one through and one under). All three teams made it through in about three-five minutes and two of the teams completely fucked up the fence in the process (cut the barbed wire at the top/cut through the tin the fence was made out of).
 
[quote name='camoor']I see - it was Liberty1 who said that. You seem like an OK dude, sorry for the misunderstanding.[/QUOTE]
Sorry if I went a little bit overboard.

[quote name='Sporadic']Reminds me of that Penn & Teller episode on Immigration where they built a piece of a fence like the one used on the border and had three teams of illegals (that built it) try to get through it (one over, one through and one under). All three teams made it through in about three-five minutes and two of the teams completely fucked up the fence in the process (cut the barbed wire at the top/cut through the tin the fence was made out of).[/QUOTE]

That was a great scene. Hour to build, 5 minutes to rend asunder.
 
I guess I'm a bad person because I think that illegal immigrants are a drain on our economy. I love the age of political correctness.
 
[quote name='Liberty1']I guess I'm a bad person because I think that illegal immigrants are a drain on our economy. I love the age of political correctness.[/QUOTE]

How many illegals do you see in BFE, Indiana? I see them on the west side of Indy and down in Greenwood. I've never run into them in Martinsville, Mooresville, Columbus, or the numerous other small towns that dot this state. They might exist but it's not like they're rolling through town in old Cadillacs listening to GWAR all day.

How do you know they're a drain on the economy other than than the shit you hear from guys in the country?
 
considering some of my friends are not legal citizens and I want them and people like them not to die outside a hospital due to citizenship status.
Click to expand...
Then someone should start a charity and raise money for their medical expenses, or just ask people to pay for it voluntarily on their income tax forms. I'd be much more willing to pay if that was the case.

Also, maybe the whole world should move here and we will just foot the bill on them too. Oh, that's right, we'd be broke 10x over.

How many illegals do you see in BFE, Indiana?
Click to expand...
Lots of agriculture, so quite a few migrant workers during growing season. I'm not bothered by them in anyway, honestly. They do have a habit of leaving dogs behind, to starve, when they move on to another area to work.

How do you know they're a drain on the economy other than than the shit you hear from guys in the country?
Click to expand...
I actually believe that the cheap work that many illegals provide is a valuable asset to our economy.

However, I don't see how anyone can believe that they aren't a major drain when many of them take full advantage of government programs.

I DO NOT support deportation or the border fence. I do support cutting of any and all forms of welfare. I support getting rid of these programs anyway, so it really isn't about the immigrants nessecarily, but the programs are a bigger drain because of them.
 
What government programs do illegals take advantage of?

Free medical care and primary schooling for children born in the United States are the two big ones I know of. What else do you got? Do you know of any actual government programs on the federal or state level that illegals get to take advantage of?

Also, who else is going to work in the fields if we didn't have any illegals? Your average teenage American is texting and Haloing his way to carpal tunnel.
 
[quote name='usickenme']there is a difference between "Knowing" something is bad and actually seen the effects.

Obviously it won’t do anything for the addicted but might sway new smokers. If they really wanted to do something they would just make up stuff.

Warning: Smoking causes socialism.[/QUOTE]

I think this is an important point, as the negative effects of smoking develop...it feels cheap to simply say "over time." It's cumulative over your lifetime, over 15-25-35-40+ years. You don't see your fingernails actively grow, but you eventually notice that they are quite long and in need of a trim. Same principle at work here (though I don't wait 10 years to trim my nails, just sayin').

I see three possibilities of the proposed pack redesign:
1) no change whatsoever in proportion of youth/adults who smoke

2) the packages will reduce smoking by 'defiling the brand.' People purchase what they do because, in part, they like brand association. Smokers who buy 'name brand' cigarettes (Marlboro/Camel/Newport/???) look down at those who buy the super cheapies. When I was a bartender I once saw a dude have a pack of "Tough Guys," which I think also had a set of handcuffs as their logo). The feeling is, if you have to satisfy your addiction though nasty, low quality cigarettes, then you are truly addicted (and not the person on year 10 of Camels). But if the image associated with brand identification is tarnished, then the impulse to associate with that brand declines. Still gotta fight against the addiction, of course, but it's made easier if you don't want to associate with the image the product represents.

Think of your favorite product - coca-cola? iPhone? Xbox? Affliction clothing? Now imagine that all of their packaging had a repulsive photo on it; a big, menacing blowjob, for instance. An absurd example, of course, and unrelated to the product - but I don't think that's what the FDA is arguing here. They're simply trying for a little cognitive linking here of smoking with those nasty images. Like someone wouldn't want to walk around town with a Taco Bell cup featuring a picture of 'tubgirl' on it (come to think of it, perhaps that is fitting), a person wouldn't want to be associated with the vile imagery of the negative effects of smoking.

That's what I think the FDA is going for - trying to counter the image people think smoking creates. Not to serve as a reminder of this being the natural end of affairs for you if you smoke for another several decades.

3) No change, possible increase in youths/adults who smoke; cigarette case sales jump through the roof. Alternately, tobacco companies get into the loose tobacco biz, selling you cans of tobacco and rolling papers, as a means of not labeling them 'cigarettes' from the FDA standpoint, and circumventing the nasty pictures.

Never discount any company's ability to fuck with proposed law.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top