Fighting a speeding ticket

m1lesteg

m1lesteg

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While driving to work yesterday, I was pulled over by a cop on a motorcycle. It wasn't until he actually gave me my ticket that I found out why I had been pulled over - supposedly he had me going 45 on a 30 mph street.

Normally I would sack up and just take the hit, but I know for a fact that I was not going anywhere above 40 (and in Massachusetts, going 40 in a 30 isn't that big a deal). Further, this guy was an absolute prick. I'm Arabic, and as such got extremely offended when he actually asked me if I had any guns in the car, and proceeded to peer through my windows (granted, there was a target from the shooting range my friends and I went to over the weekend in the car, but who draws the conclusion that someone is hoarding guns from something like that?)

I'm going to take this thing to court, for sure. The guy didn't even have me clocked as going 45. He just "estimated" that was my speed, and it was on a road with an unposted speed limit which could very reasonably have been 35. I think I have this one in the bag, but I'm hoping to get some tips from you guys who may have gone through this yourselves.

Also, is there a general idea of when the court date will be? If I'm lucky, I'll be able to get ouf of a terrible family trip if it falls between August 6-20.
 
[quote name='m1lesteg']While driving to work yesterday, I was pulled over by a cop on a motorcycle. It wasn't until he actually gave me my ticket that I found out why I had been pulled over - supposedly he had me going 45 on a 30 mph street.

Normally I would sack up and just take the hit, but I know for a fact that I was not going anywhere above 40 (and in Massachusetts, going 40 in a 30 isn't that big a deal). Further, this guy was an absolute prick. I'm Arabic, and as such got extremely offended when he actually asked me if I had any guns in the car, and proceeded to peer through my windows (granted, there was a target from the shooting range my friends and I went to over the weekend in the car, but who draws the conclusion that someone is hoarding guns from something like that?)

I'm going to take this thing to court, for sure. The guy didn't even have me clocked as going 45. He just "estimated" that was my speed, and it was on a road with an unposted speed limit which could very reasonably have been 35. I think I have this one in the bag, but I'm hoping to get some tips from you guys who may have gone through this yourselves.

Also, is there a general idea of when the court date will be? If I'm lucky, I'll be able to get ouf of a terrible family trip if it falls between August 6-20.[/QUOTE]

You're from MA, people don't normally go hunting or to shooting ranges here. Driving around with gun or target equipment isn't normal. While being arab may have been the reason, I think the shooting range thing was probably it.
 
Good luck fighting yours. I never won fighting mine. The judge will always side with the cop unless you have clear and unequivocal evidence, such as witnesses or photographic evidence showing that the cop lied about facts he testified to.

They are only interested in bringing in revenue for the city/county through these thinly veiled extortions, not truth or justice.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']You're from MA, people don't normally go hunting or to shooting ranges here. Driving around with gun or target equipment isn't normal. While being arab may have been the reason, I think the shooting range thing was probably it.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure it was, but if I can play the race card, it could only help my case.
 
(and in Massachusetts, going 40 in a 30 isn't that big a deal)
Click to expand...

You know, you can be given a ticket for even going 1 mph over the speed limit.

You're not going to win this fight.
 
I was with you up until you said you'd play the race card in order to help your case. That's a load of crap. Here's a novel idea, how about taking responsibility for your actions and pay your fine, instead of trying to find a way to squirm out of it.
 
Speeding is speeding and even if you pull out the race card you will still lose. It may seem to you that 5 mph over the limit is fine but no matter what if you were going over it you can get a ticket.
 
[quote name='m1lesteg']I'm sure it was, but if I can play the race card, it could only help my case.[/QUOTE]

Actually it'll just piss the judge off and make him rule against you.
 
[quote name='Rich']Actually it'll just piss the judge off and make him rule against you.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I don't know about the east coast but that's certainly the case in California.
 
I'm in Indiana and my case was dismissed a few years ago. The cop who wrote the ticket didn't show up at the first court date, so it was rescheduled. When the cop doesn't show up the second time, the case is dismissed. I don't know if it's that way in MA, though.
The court date should be written on the ticket.
 
[quote name='The Gifuto']I was with you up until you said you'd play the race card in order to help your case. That's a load of crap. Here's a novel idea, how about taking responsibility for your actions and pay your fine, instead of trying to find a way to squirm out of it.[/QUOTE]

You're probably right. I wasn't completely serious about doing that, and I'm not going to pretend to know how the court would react.

As far as taking responsibility, like I said, I would normally pay up, but I don't consider myself as trying to weasel out of this ticket. Would you just pay the 150 dollars plus 800+ bucks in insurance because some officer might have speculated that I was maybe going 45? If he had me clocked on radar, ok, sure, I'll pay it all without a fuss, but it's not worth 950 dollars to me that this guy meets his quota for the month.

I know people are going to say "speeding is speeding," but let's not pretend everybody drives the speed limit all the time (especially up here in MA), and it can't be proven what speed I was going at all.
 
[quote name='m1lesteg']You're probably right. I wasn't completely serious about doing that, and I'm not going to pretend to know how the court would react.

As far as taking responsibility, like I said, I would normally pay up, but I don't consider myself as trying to weasel out of this ticket. Would you just pay the 150 dollars plus 800+ bucks in insurance because some officer might have speculated that I was maybe going 45? If he had me clocked on radar, ok, sure, I'll pay it all without a fuss, but it's not worth 950 dollars to me that this guy meets his quota for the month.

I know people are going to say "speeding is speeding," but let's not pretend everybody drives the speed limit all the time (especially up here in MA), and it can't be proven what speed I was going at all.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I still think you are going to lose. It's usually the cops word over yours.
 
[quote name='The Gifuto']I was with you up until you said you'd play the race card in order to help your case. That's a load of crap. Here's a novel idea, how about taking responsibility for your actions and pay your fine, instead of trying to find a way to squirm out of it.[/QUOTE]

You're probably right. I wasn't completely serious about doing that, and I'm not going to pretend to know how the court would react.

As far as taking responsibility, like I said, I would normally pay up, but I don't consider myself as trying to weasel out of this ticket. Would you just pay the 150 dollars plus 800+ bucks in insurance because some officer might have speculated that I was maybe going 45? If he had me clocked on radar, ok, sure, I'll pay it all without a fuss, but it's not worth 950 dollars to me that this guy meets his quota for the month.

I know people are going to say "speeding is speeding," but let's not pretend everybody drives the speed limit all the time (especially up here in MA), and it can't be proven what speed I was going at all.
 
[quote name='Tritan']Actually, I still think you are going to lose. It's usually the cops word over yours.[/QUOTE]

That doesn't sound like "reasonable doubt" to me...maybe I'm just idealistic...
 
[quote name='kittie']You know, you can be given a ticket for even going 1 mph over the speed limit.

You're not going to win this fight.[/QUOTE]

Well, provided the cop actually does show.
Every so often, people can get a ticket tossed if they bother to appear in front of the court and the officer doesn't show.
 
[quote name='m1lesteg']That doesn't sound like "reasonable doubt" to me...maybe I'm just idealistic...[/QUOTE]

Then you don't know what traffic court is.

Guilty until proven Innocent.
 
Even if you didn't break the law, you are still going to lose if you argue the ticket.

A short drive away from here, there is a well known speed trap town. I won't name it... *cough* Freer *cough*... I mean, the speed limit is totally fucked up, and the citizens know it. I'm talking, a setup like this, with markers every few seconds or so:

70 mph... 55... 40... 45... 30... 40... 35... 20... 40... 30...

It gets ridiculous! And the town does this to rob people of their money!

Whenever we have to go through that town, we make sure to be extra careful so that the cops won't have a chance to take us down. Unfortunately, a while back they wrongfully ticketed my mother (the cop says that he clocked her speeding, but it looks like he was aiming at the car in front of us, which was indeed speeding).

The best thing you can do is what my mother did:

Just take the defensive driving course, if that's an option. It shouldn't cost that much, and you don't have to worry about your insurance going screwy. Then, pay the court fee, check your driving record for mistakes, and just go on with your life.
 
Here in PA they have to prove that the method of detection is calibrated properly and prove that it has been serviced recently an is in good working order. That means everything from a stopwatch (vascar) to a radar gun. The burden of proof is on the officer, not you. He has to prove you guilty in the eyes of the judge, estimatation will likely not hold up.

BUT if it does, I've got just the thing for you. Pay attention, pull up a chair and take notes. Ready? Good.

Class is in session.

Let's say you don't get out of the ticket and the fine is $100. (For easy math.)

Have them send you the bill. When you receive the fine, pay $110 instead of the exact amount. NOTE: You must pay OVER the amount. A month or so will go by and you will receive a check for the difference. DO NOT CASH THIS CHECK. Tear it up and throw it away. Periodically, you will receive more checks for the same amount. NEVER CASH THESE EITHER.

All financial transactions need to be completed first before the processing of the points begins. Meaning, that if you never cash that check, the points will never be allocated and you basically spent $10 to wipe you're record clean.

The above part I know for a fact is true, however I have heard that after 3 years the points will have expired, (or however many years you would've needed for them to lapse), since the system believes that the points were allocated at the beginning.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the second part, I'd just never cash the $10. This may vary by state as well, but here in PA it works just fine.
 
[quote name='Saucy Jack']Even if you didn't break the law, you are still going to lose if you argue the ticket.

A short drive away from here, there is a well known speed trap town. I won't name it... *cough* Freer *cough*... I mean, the speed limit is totally fucked up, and the citizens know it. I'm talking, a setup like this, with markers every few seconds or so:

70 mph... 55... 40... 45... 30... 40... 35... 20... 40... 30...

It gets ridiculous! And the town does this to rob people of their money!

Whenever we have to go through that town, we make sure to be extra careful so that the cops won't have a chance to take us down. Unfortunately, a while back they wrongfully ticketed my mother (the cop says that he clocked her speeding, but it looks like he was aiming at the car in front of us, which was indeed speeding).

The best thing you can do is what my mother did:

Just take the defensive driving course, if that's an option. It shouldn't cost that much, and you don't have to worry about your insurance going screwy. Then, pay the court fee, check your driving record for mistakes, and just go on with your life.[/QUOTE]


Honestly, insurance is the main reason I'm fighting this. I'm making more than enough money this summer that 150 dollars won't kill me. If there are steps I can take towards getting this to not mess with my points and insurance costs, I will do whatever needs to be done.
 
[quote name='rabidmonkeys'] Have them send you the bill. When you receive the fine, pay $110 instead of the exact amount. NOTE: You must pay OVER the amount. A month or so will go by and you will receive a check for the difference. DO NOT CASH THIS CHECK. Tear it up and throw it away. Periodically, you will receive more checks for the same amount. NEVER CASH THESE EITHER.

All financial transactions need to be completed first before the processing of the points begins. Meaning, that if you never cash that check, the points will never be allocated and you basically spent $10 to wipe you're record clean.

The above part I know for a fact is true, however I have heard that after 3 years the points will have expired, (or however many years you would've needed for them to lapse), since the system believes that the points were allocated at the beginning.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the second part, I'd just never cash the $10. This may vary by state as well, but here in PA it works just fine.[/QUOTE]

URBAN MYTH

http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/ticket.asp
 
[quote name='m1lesteg']Honestly, insurance is the main reason I'm fighting this. I'm making more than enough money this summer that 150 dollars won't kill me. If there are steps I can take towards getting this to not mess with my points and insurance costs, I will do whatever needs to be done.[/QUOTE]

I would definitely check if you have the option to take the 6 hour (or so) defensive driving course. If you do, your record will be cleaned of your offense, and your insurance won't go screwy. In fact, you might get a discount on your insurance.

It's worth the few hours in a classroom (or online) to take the course.
 
[quote name='rabidmonkeys']Interesting, because not only have I done it but my boss and aunt have done it as well. To be a myth it has to be someone who knows someone's brother, not someone who has done it themselves. Don't believe me? Fine, but for $5 or $10 its worth the shot, no?[/QUOTE]

No, it's not worth $5. You damn uncheapass.
 
First off all these "ideas" vary form state to state.

Secondly I have had many, many speeding tickets. Lost my license once due to speeding and I am at the ripe old age of 26 (as of May).

I wont give my best and most secret info away at all. But what I will share is this.

First right now renew your insurance for a full 12 months. Maybe even call your agent and have it 'shopped" to see what they can save you. I would recommend at least 2 cars (multi car discount in most states) and possible a house or if you rent then renters insurance. (Renters insurance varies but is generally less than $150 and will sometimes drop your auto by more than that thus getting the extra coverage free.)

This renewed insurance wont be looking at your driving record for at least 12 months. And sometimes as long as they don’t get shopped or you stay with them they skip the renewal MVR (motor vehicle report) on a renewal. It costs them roughly $9 a person or so to run that and they can save a lot by not running them all the time. So you could get 12-24 months without an increase.

Secondly. Regardless of what is said. You are guilty as the cop is the 'law" and he already proved you to be guilty. Now if you want to get into estimation crap and all that let me say this.

The judge will shut you down. He/She will clarify that the cop has been a traffic officer for _X__ years and that he is experienced in that field. Thus his estimation is fairly accurate.

Been there done that twice...

Also if you even admitted to speeding .5 mph over you admitted to speeding and will lose.

The whole pay more etc and not cash the ticket is false.

Check your tire size. If that’s incorrect get a garage or even an Internet printout of the ratio your speed was off. Typically the judge will say that its not law to have a speedo and thus that info doesn’t matter. Point out that you "trusted" your speed to be accurate though and relied on it until now to stay within the law... that might work


Ask for a reduction... if he said 15 mph over ask the judge to have it reduced.

Also as stated if the cop doesn’t show up it typically will get thrown out. In Michigan its if he doesn’t show up the first time. There is no reschedule... The problem is he typically gets paid double or triple time to show so rarely will the cop not show.

Also if you call or mail in the ticket and want to fight it varies from county courthouse to courthouse. You may be scheduled as early as 1-2 weeks or as late as 3 months out.

You’re guilty. You pretty much admitted here to us. Do some of the above including renewing auto for 12 months (pay it early also this makes the company more apt to forget the renewal MVR).

Good luck
 
Cops suck and are corrupt all they do is screw you over. When I've needed one they are never there, and when I don't want one around they are always there. We'd have more luck going to vigilante system. To quote NWA "fuck the Police"
 
How the fuck can two people tell me that something I have done first hand is false? And since when did spending $5 to save a raise on your insurance premium become uncheap?
 
[quote name='rabidmonkeys']How the fuck can two people tell me that something I have done first hand is false? And since when did spending $5 to save a raise on your insurance premium become uncheap?[/QUOTE]
How long ago was this?
 
[quote name='Snake2715']
Ask for a reduction... if he said 15 mph over ask the judge to have it reduced.
[/QUOTE]

I tried that cuz the damn cop put it down as 16 mph; over 15 is the next "level" of increase on insurance. The judge raised the price of my fine and ruled guilty.

Hoooray.

Oh, and my insurance went up 12 bucks. :applause:

It's been ... about 9 months since now, and the one lesson I learned has been crucial....don't speed if any cops could be hiding near where you are. So basically I just speed everywhere but the main-non highway roads now.
 
Invest in a radar detector (if legal in your state). You can go around 10-12 over and will be able to slow down to around 5 over when you hear it go off and in most places you need to be going 7-10 over to get a ticket.
 
[quote name='m1lesteg']I'm Arabic, and as such got extremely offended when he actually asked me if I had any guns in the car, and proceeded to peer through my windows (granted, there was a target from the shooting range my friends and I went to over the weekend in the car, but who draws the conclusion that someone is hoarding guns from something like that?)[/QUOTE]

I'd draw the exact same conclusion if I saw the target paper first. I probably wouldn't have been offended unless he proceeded to search my car.

[quote name='m1lesteg']I'm sure it was, but if I can play the race card, it could only help my case.[/QUOTE]

I really hate when people do this. If it was pure racism and discrimination, then that's fine. But if you really want to get out of this ticket, then do whatever you can.

It sucks to get stupid tickets that increase your insurance. You probably won't be able to appeal it, though.
 
[quote name='Rich']I tried that cuz the damn cop put it down as 16 mph; over 15 is the next "level" of increase on insurance. The judge raised the price of my fine and ruled guilty.

Hoooray.

Oh, and my insurance went up 12 bucks. :applause:

It's been ... about 9 months since now, and the one lesson I learned has been crucial....don't speed if any cops could be hiding near where you are. So basically I just speed everywhere but the main-non highway roads now.[/QUOTE]

Regarding insurance, do you guys know what the deal with points resetting is? I've been told they reset when you turn 18 and again when you turn 21, because you're allocated more as you get older. If it's going to be a moot point in the next year and a half, then I'm not going to try as hard to get it dismissed as I would if it's something I'll be stuck with for life.
 
[quote name='Rich']I tried that cuz the damn cop put it down as 16 mph; over 15 is the next "level" of increase on insurance. The judge raised the price of my fine and ruled guilty.

Hoooray.

Oh, and my insurance went up 12 bucks. :applause:

It's been ... about 9 months since now, and the one lesson I learned has been crucial....don't speed if any cops could be hiding near where you are. So basically I just speed everywhere but the main-non highway roads now.[/QUOTE]


I would check with a lawyer to see if that is even possible. If you go in to fight a ticket I have NEVEr heard of them giving you a worse ticket. I dont even think its possible. Sounds like you got screwed to me.
 
It's New York. We have like our own set of rules. Bitch raised it from $140 to $200. I was like W T F MATE (/end of world video)

Regarding insurance, do you guys know what the deal with points resetting is? I've been told they reset when you turn 18 and again when you turn 21, because you're allocated more as you get older. If it's going to be a moot point in the next year and a half, then I'm not going to try as hard to get it dismissed as I would if it's something I'll be stuck with for life.
Click to expand...

It's different in every state. I doubt they would have that here because once you get your license at 17, you get the same Class D license as everyone else.
 
[quote name='m1lesteg']Regarding insurance, do you guys know what the deal with points resetting is? I've been told they reset when you turn 18 and again when you turn 21, because you're allocated more as you get older. If it's going to be a moot point in the next year and a half, then I'm not going to try as hard to get it dismissed as I would if it's something I'll be stuck with for life.[/QUOTE]

I work at an insurance agency. As I stated earlier it varies from state to state.

One thing to not get confused is Insurance "points" and state "points" are two different things...

In michigan up to 5 mph over is no state points... Thats not the case for insurance points. Insurance companies vary slightly BUT all will do something to raise your insurance even on a 5 over ticket. You are a 'riskier' driver and thus pay for your category.

One thing that will also help is Progressive in Michigan doesnt go back a full 3 years. They only go back around 30 months (2.5 years) and therefore sometimes can offer a better rate if you are a person with an older ticket..

That is why i suggested getting you r insruance to renew and doing so in a 12 month plan instead of the typical 6 month renewal.. Thus giving you one "free" year.

On top of that as I said if you are paid up rather quickly you normally are one of the people that dont get looked at at renewal so that buys you another 12 months without an increase in rates.

Therefore you are looking at a max of 6 months of higher rates. Just dont leave that first insurance company or you will get an MVR pulled.



And in our state no points are dropped at preset ages.. If you get a bunch of tickets at age 24 they arent just gone at age 25. Speeding tickets stay with your state (in Michigan) for two years. Insurance gets to be a little tricky. Normally in michigan it stays with you a full 3 years.. the DUI, wreckless etc stay for 5 years on insurance records (MVR)

You do however typically get a reduced insruance rate at age 18 and at age 25. But that has nothing to do with points..
 
[quote name='ragtop70']I'm in Indiana and my case was dismissed a few years ago. The cop who wrote the ticket didn't show up at the first court date, so it was rescheduled. When the cop doesn't show up the second time, the case is dismissed. I don't know if it's that way in MA, though.
The court date should be written on the ticket.[/QUOTE]

I've had friends fight ticket in MA and ontario, both places it gets dismissed if the cop doesn't show up the first time.
 
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