Firefighters refuse to put out fire, watch house burn down

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[quote name='UncleBob']No one punished this man.

Unless you know something that hasn't made it into the press - like, say, the apparent fake Fire Chief was the one who set the house on fire just to teach those county folks a lesson. Then we'd be dealing with a whole different story.

Here's why I'm okay with him being turned down on the spot. Let's say you buy a game at GameStop. You turn down the disc protection plan. You bring the game home, set it on the counter, and next thing you know, your (younger sibling, child, dog) has it and has put some pretty darn good scratches in it. Should you be out the $60 cost of the game because you didn't pay the $2 fee? Should you be allowed to go into GameStop and add the protection plan after the disc has been damaged?[/QUOTE]

No, and a Gamestop employee should also come to your house, shit on your rug, throw a brick through your TV and kill your two dogs and cat while screaming "Why didn't you buy the plan, whyyyyyyyy"
 
[quote name='UncleBob']As opposed to "You didn't get your's, let's **** the other guy and take it from him!"?[/QUOTE]

Because the guy didn't offer to pay it himself right then and there? As opposed to pointing at people and begging for cash, or robbing someone, or knocking on his neiYou know what, fuck it, your argument sucks.

This guy doesn't have the ability to put out a fire. The firemen do.

Kind of like how you don't have the ability to say something that makes sense. I do.

Meanwhile, most of us have the ability to buy games at Gamestop. But I am grateful for their existence because without them, what nonsense would you have to base your poor arguments on? Imagine a world where Gamestop didn't exist. You might have to use it's replacement, like Videogamestop, or Game-a-rade. I shudder at the syntax and rhetoric.
 
[quote name='camoor']No, and a Gamestop employee should also come to your house, shit on your rug, throw a brick through your TV and kill your two dogs and cat while screaming "Why didn't you buy the plan, whyyyyyyyy"[/QUOTE]

The only thing that happened even remotely close to this is when this guy's son went to the fire department and physically assaulted someone.

But you realize that.
 
[quote name='Strell']This guy doesn't have the ability to put out a fire.[/quote]

Then it seems like it would have been a *really* good idea for him to have a plan in place in case his house caught on fire.

Kind of like how you don't have the ability to say something that makes sense. I do.

Speaking of things that don't make sense....

Meanwhile, most of us have the ability to buy games at Gamestop. But I am grateful for their existence because without them, what nonsense would you have to base your poor arguments on? Imagine a world where Gamestop didn't exist. You might have to use it's replacement, like Videogamestop, or Game-a-rade. I shudder at the syntax and rhetoric.
 
Even Willy Wonka isn't this strict with punishment.

I'm not gay, so fuck Don't ask don't tell.
My mom didn't have an abortion, so fuck the right to choice.
I'm a Christian, so fuck other people's religions and where they choose to worship.
I was born here, so fuck other people trying to come here.
I'm white, so fuck other races crying about racism because of reverse racism.
I'm married, so fuck other people getting tax breaks.
I've never drunk and drove, so fuck people wanting weed to be legalized.
I've never been poor enough to need food stamps, so fuck people using them.

I wonder how much longer I could keep this up. I also wonder how many more examples I could think up.
 
[quote name='Strell']Even Willy Wonka isn't this strict with punishment.

I'm not gay, so fuck Don't ask don't tell.
My mom didn't have an abortion, so fuck the right to choice.
I'm a Christian, so fuck other people's religions and where they choose to worship.
I was born here, so fuck other people trying to come here.
I'm white, so fuck other races crying about racism because of reverse racism.
I'm married, so fuck other people getting tax breaks.
I've never drunk and drove, so fuck people wanting weed to be legalized.
I've never been poor enough to need food stamps, so fuck people using them.

I wonder how much longer I could keep this up. I also wonder how many more examples I could think up.[/QUOTE]

It's worse. It's not just about abusive policy, it's about keeping the personal attacks, vitriol, and hate directed at the less fortunate.
 
[quote name='Strell']No motherfucker, you forgot to mention how goddamn awesome I am.

Because I am GODDAMN awesome.[/QUOTE]

No, Strell - you are not "GODDAMN awesome". You are God ...and you're always right. Thank you for blessing the vs. forum with your posts. They're so full of intelligence, wit and charm. The world doesn't deserve the goodness you bring to it.
 
[quote name='Strell']Maybe there's hope for UB after all, even if he is forgetting to trumpet several of my attributes.[/QUOTE]

Please do feel free to add in anything I forgot. I'm only sub-human, after all. Every single post you make is like kisses from angel kittens, so please, make more.
 
Let's look at this logically.

Obion county cannot afford to maintain a fire department so they have to rely on South Fulton county's fire department. Understandably, the fire department requires compensation for this since Obion country is not normally their responsibility so having homeowners pay a relatively small premium to help fund this coverage, I would argue is reasonable.

Now if the fire department shows up and puts out this man's fire, it sets a bad precedent. All the other homeowners who did pay get pissed and will demand their money back and/or refuse to pay in the future and still expect fire coverage (since they already put out the fire of a non-paying resident) and potentially open the fire department to a lawsuit. If they put out fires for free, then their home county's residents get pissed since their taxes and resources are being diverted to non-residents. Thus their only recourse is then to either stick to the letter of the agreement or just refuse fire coverage leaving every resident in Obion country without coverage and potentially screwed.

It's an unfortunate situation that probably could have been avoided if Obion county had an automatic opt-in where their property taxes would be hiked up by $75 and residents would have to consciously opt-out if they so choose or if there were some policy that a homeowner would be assessed the full cost of putting out the fire if they did not opt-in.
 
[quote name='Strell']No motherfucker, you forgot to mention how goddamn awesome I am.

Because I am GODDAMN awesome.[/QUOTE]

1234294985_futuramabenderpimpwalk.gif
 
[quote name='camoor']It's worse. It's not just about abusive policy, it's about keeping the personal attacks, vitriol, and hate directed at the less fortunate.[/QUOTE]

Should we stop insulting Knoell and UncleBob then? They are less fortunate. Wait... they don't suffer from a birth defect? Then why does...

...shit. Wow. Kids, stay in school.
 
[quote name='Strell']Even Willy Wonka isn't this strict with punishment.

I'm not gay, so fuck Don't ask don't tell.
My mom didn't have an abortion, so fuck the right to choice.
I'm a Christian, so fuck other people's religions and where they choose to worship.
I was born here, so fuck other people trying to come here.
I'm white, so fuck other races crying about racism because of reverse racism.
I'm married, so fuck other people getting tax breaks.
I've never drunk and drove, so fuck people wanting weed to be legalized.
I've never been poor enough to need food stamps, so fuck people using them.

I wonder how much longer I could keep this up. I also wonder how many more examples I could think up.[/QUOTE]

Strell, dude I don't care if your gay. You don't have to be so defensive. Your still awesome no matter what.
 
[quote name='georox']Should we stop insulting Knoell and UncleBob then? [/QUOTE]

Oh, no, we can't have that. What would the vs. forum be without throwing insults at people you disagree with? I mean, we can't have any of that adult-like conversation around here. Too many members don't have an attention span long enough to stay in that kind of conversation.
 
[quote name='nateeasy29']The firefighters didn't refuse to put out the fire. The homeowner refused to buy fire coverage.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

The man was demanding that they put the fire out for free and the firefighters weren't even out in that area...oh wait. The guy was willing to pay any amount of money for them to put out the fire and the firefighters were right behind his house trying to keep a paying customer's field from getting damaged.

Funny how you guys keep trying to blame the victim of this.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Funny how you guys keep trying to blame the victim of this.[/QUOTE]

The victim being the guy who was physically assaulted, right?
 
[quote name='georox']Should we stop insulting Knoell and UncleBob then? They are less fortunate. Wait... they don't suffer from a birth defect? Then why does...

...shit. Wow. Kids, stay in school.[/QUOTE]

Nah, you can't blame their low IQ for this. Perdition seems to be of average IQ and he's getting a kick out of watching this guy lose his enitre net worth. Besides people with low IQs can have a sense of humanity, decency and morality.

Was just watching how donations are pouring into this family, after talking to their preacher the family has decided to take what they need to be made whole again and then give the rest to charity. I saw it as a beautiful HELL NO to the perdition, Knoell, and UBs of America.
 
There's no reason to be able to save a home and choose not to. Yes, they didn't pay and by saving their home it would negate the reason for anyone to pay. However, once the guy offered to pay whatever it would cost, they should have gone ahead and saved the home and sent him a fat check. Because they didn't they all look like fucktards. Whoever thought up this pay to save fee should have his home burned down and told that his check didn't clear... they didn't have the foresight to say you would pay a huge fine if you didn't pay to begin with. Even then such a law should not exist because it just takes advantage of those who pay and those who don't, a lose-lose.
 
[quote name='camoor']Was just watching how donations are pouring into this family, after talking to their preacher the family has decided to take what they need to be made whole again and then give the rest to charity. I saw it as a beautiful HELL NO to the perdition, Knoell, and UBs of America.[/QUOTE]

Actually, this is exactly what I'd like to see more of and what the likes of you seem to be so against. Private giving through charity. As opposed to the "spreading the wealth" method where people are forced to give.

I've been looking for a credible source to donate to online for this family over the past two days... haven't found one that stands out as trustworthy. Anyone else found one?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']The victim being the guy who was physically assaulted, right?[/QUOTE]

Depends.

Do you think that being punched in the face is worse than losing every material item you own in the world along with your pets and house?

- ps. it was one of his family members that punched the chief in the face, not the guy himself
 
[quote name='Sporadic']- ps. it was one of his family members that punched the chief in the face, not the guy himself[/QUOTE]

Really...?

[quote name='UncleBob']The only thing that happened even remotely close to this is when this guy's son went to the fire department and physically assaulted someone.[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='UncleBob']One guy was the victim of his own actions.
The other guy was the victim of someone else's attack.[/QUOTE]

Not really.

One guy was the victim of "that's the rules, no logic allowed" bullshit.
The other guy was a victim of "I did what my boss told me, not my responsibility" bullshit.

But hey, I'm sure the rest of the firefighting community is standing behind this chief and the town's decision to watch that guy's house burn down...

Fire-fighting personnel across East Tennessee seem almost universally outraged by the actions of a small-town fire company on the other end of the state that responded to a house afire but was ordered to let the structure burn because the owner had not paid a $75 subscription fee.

"We don't particularly care who's paid his dues," said Steve Wheeler, chief of the Vonore, Tenn., Fire Department. "If somebody needs help, we help and worry about everything else later."

"Truly, a firefighter cannot stand by and watch something burn," said Doug McClanahan, chief of the Blount County Fire Department. "He can't stand by and not try to react to a fire or rescue. They are trained to take care of people."

The issue gained national attention when firefighters from the South Fulton, Tenn., Fire Department were called to a blaze at the home of Gene Cranick, who lived just outside the city limits in Obion County but within an area in which homeowners can subscribe to the agency's services by paying a $75 annual fee.

Cranick has said in cable television interviews that he forgot to make his payment and that he told responding firefighters he would pay their costs if they would douse the fire at his home.

Broadcast images of the incident show firefighters sitting in their trucks as the house burns to the ground in the background. Their only action was to spray a fence line next to the home of a neighbor who had paid his subscription, according to media reports.

Not all fire-fighting agencies in East Tennessee sell subscriptions for their services, but some that do are adamant that they would never let a structure burn depending on whether the fee had been paid or not.

Among such agencies is Rural/Metro, which handles fire-fighting duties for Knox County under the direction of Chief Jerry Harnish.

The chief said the South Fulton case is a "major topic of discussion" among those in his profession, and he finds it "kind of hard to relate to. People don't join fire departments to not respond to emergencies."

Wheeler's five paid and 15 volunteer firefighters, he said, are driven by the same sense of wanting to help people that causes most to get involved in such potentially dangerous work.

"It's in your blood," he said. "You love it. It's about helping people."

Wheeler said he does not know how the South Fulton team even knew Cranick was not a subscriber.

"We don't ask," he said, adding that he believes the firefighters who responded were probably anxious to attack the flames despite their orders.

Vonore's subscription is $100 a year.

He said his unit would not "let policies and stuff get in the way," and he related a story he heard from a different location in West Tennessee in which firefighters from one jurisdiction responded to a fire that was on the other side of a street that was the dividing line between their area and another agency's.

They let the fire burn until the second agency could respond but ultimately had to pay for the house following litigation.

Blount County residents who fail to subscribe to fire services for $110 will be presented with a hefty bill after firefighters finish their duties at a house fire.

McClanahan said it amounts to $2,200 for the initial call and $1,100 for every hour past the first two that firefighters are on the scene.

Wheeler said his department has no set fee but does ask the homeowner to assign to the fire department any insurance money designated for compensating the fire department.

Harnish said his department's subscription rate averages about 11 cents per square foot of structure, meaning the owner of a 2,500-square-foot home would pay a fee of about $275.

But Knox County's non-subscription charge leaves the others in ashes.

If no subscription is paid, he said, the standard rate is $1,200 per hour for each unit dispatched to the scene.

"And we never send a single engine to a fire," he said. "We send four engines and a ladder truck," meaning the homeowner is charged the hourly fee for each truck.

Knowing that, he said, most people realize it is "more reasonable" to pay the subscription fee.

And imagine that, they have plans in place if a person doesn't pay the fee when a fee is in place.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2010/oct/08/fire-chiefs-we-wont-watch-a-home-burn/
 
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[quote name='J7.']Which of those fees apply to South Fulton? I see a bunch of other locations mentioned but don't see Fulton's policy for paying after it's too late.[/QUOTE]

That's the point captain. Unlike South Fulton, most places have a backup plan to protect the people who neglected to pay the fee instead of going "fuck it and fuck them, let it burn"
 
[quote name='Sporadic']That's the point captain. Unlike South Fulton, most places have a backup plan to protect the people who neglected to pay the fee instead of going "fuck it and fuck them, let it burn"[/QUOTE]

My bad I read the first part of your post too quickly and only focused on what you said after the quote. So I guess I was right they didn't have the foresight whereas every other department appears to have properly drawn up the law. Makes me feel better about my previous accusations against this town. They totally fucked it up.
 
[quote name='camoor']Nah, you can't blame their low IQ for this. Perdition seems to be of average IQ and he's getting a kick out of watching this guy lose his enitre net worth. Besides people with low IQs can have a sense of humanity, decency and morality.

Was just watching how donations are pouring into this family, after talking to their preacher the family has decided to take what they need to be made whole again and then give the rest to charity. I saw it as a beautiful HELL NO to the perdition, Knoell, and UBs of America.[/QUOTE]

A hell no to what exactly? I thought I argued that they should have put the fire out. Explain this to me, or else someone should check on your IQ. What is the IQ of someone who cannot read?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Actually, this is exactly what I'd like to see more of and what the likes of you seem to be so against. Private giving through charity. As opposed to the "spreading the wealth" method where people are forced to give.

I've been looking for a credible source to donate to online for this family over the past two days... haven't found one that stands out as trustworthy. Anyone else found one?[/QUOTE]

I don't get that. You berate the guy, you claim he is fair game because he 'demonized' the fire dept, and now you want to donate? Even your donation isn't going to bring his dogs and cat back.

[quote name='Knoell']A hell no to what exactly? I thought I argued that they should have put the fire out. Explain this to me, or else someone should check on your IQ. What is the IQ of someone who cannot read?[/QUOTE]

Honestly I don't know what your position is, it seems to change with every post. But if that's what you believe at the end of the day, then at least we agree on something.
 
[quote name='camoor']I don't get that. You berate the guy, you claim he is fair game because he 'demonized' the fire dept, and now you want to donate? Even your donation isn't going to bring his dogs and cat back.[/QUOTE]

The other day, my friend made a pretty dumb mistake and needed help cleaning up a bit of a mess as a result. I helped him set things right, but still told him what he did was pretty darn stupid. It's not a situation where you can either help or think someone was wrong. You can do both.
 
Wait a sec. This fucker is getting donations? He had a fire 3 fucking years ago and they already bailed him out by letting him pay afterwards then. Not to mention that he owns a fairly large cattle ranch that had 3 houses on his property. fuck me.

Shouldn't this guy have been paying for it afterward the first fire? This guy is no victim. He went with the freemarket cause he thought he was hot shit and got fucked.

Well guess what a-hole, maybe you should've voted for higher taxes so that you can have a better fire department instead of pissing away federal funds that were supposed to go to it instead.
 
[quote name='camoor']

Honestly I don't know what your position is, it seems to change with every post. But if that's what you believe at the end of the day, then at least we agree on something.[/QUOTE]

point out two opposing points I have made.
You won't.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Wait a sec. This fucker is getting donations? He had a fire 3 fucking years ago and they already bailed him out by letting him pay afterwards then. Not to mention that he owns a fairly large cattle ranch that had 3 houses on his property. fuck me.

Shouldn't this guy have been paying for it afterward the first fire? This guy is no victim. He went with the freemarket cause he thought he was hot shit and got fucked.

Well guess what a-hole, maybe you should've voted for higher taxes so that you can have a better fire department instead of pissing away federal funds that were supposed to go to it instead.[/QUOTE]

Funny how now that he is rich, he deserves what he gets.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Wait a sec. This fucker is getting donations? He had a fire 3 fucking years ago and they already bailed him out by letting him pay afterwards then. Not to mention that he owns a fairly large cattle ranch that had 3 houses on his property. fuck me.

Shouldn't this guy have been paying for it afterward the first fire? This guy is no victim. He went with the freemarket cause he thought he was hot shit and got fucked.

Well guess what a-hole, maybe you should've voted for higher taxes so that you can have a better fire department instead of pissing away federal funds that were supposed to go to it instead.[/QUOTE]

Damn. He figured they'd bail him out again. I think they should have, but made him pay a huge fine that goes up with each offense. If he wants to gamble and not contribute to the greater good he should pay up when he is given public service, like $2,000 the first time and double that each successive time. Despite how I feel, I can't say he deserves to lose his home.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Funny how now that he is rich, he deserves what he gets.[/QUOTE]

And I bet there are thousands of people who lose their homes and have no money. They totally deserve it? You're going to donate to this family and not the rest? Sigh, that's why fools like them are never going to learn a lesson.
 
$75 a year to get your fire put out, or $10 per month if you can't do it up front. Sounds fair to me.
 
[quote name='nasum']$75 a year to get your fire put out, or $10 per month if you can't do it up front. Sounds fair to me.[/QUOTE]

I never said it wasn't fair. Just that they don't think they should have to pay for things.

Maybe entitlement isn't a liberal trait after all, cons?

EDIT -- I'd say that he was entitled to have his house fire put out regardless of circumstances or wealth. I'd say that a working fire department is like a working school. It's just something that we as Americans should provide to everyone in this country.

This is one example of how fees don't work unless the service is held back. DMV operate with fees. You can't walk out with a license or a plate without paying. This is a different situation where it leads to checking files to see if someone paid while the house is burning. That's just wrong.

Make it a tax and everyone will pay it or have a tax lien put on their property. Make it a part of the property tax and there should be no problems other than with the people that don't pay their property taxes anyway.
 
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[quote name='elessar123']And I bet there are thousands of people who lose their homes and have no money. They totally deserve it? You're going to donate to this family and not the rest? Sigh, that's why fools like them are never going to learn a lesson.[/QUOTE]

I never said anyone deserves it. Wealth envy is all I can say, once you guys hear the guy is living comfortably you turn on him like rabid animals.
 
Because then he deserves no sympathy. It's not as if he were ignorant of the law or unable to pay. He was the very definition of a cheapskate.
 
[quote name='davo1224']Because then he deserves no sympathy. It's not as if he were ignorant of the law or unable to pay. He was the very definition of a cheapskate.[/QUOTE]

Theres a difference between saying they are rich so they deserved it, which is what they just said, and being able to pay (which anyone making money could afford) and ignorant of the law, which is what UncleBob and I have been arguing.

Oh yeah rich people deserve to be treated differently because they can handle it, they are rich. :roll:
 
[quote name='UncleBob']The other day, my friend made a pretty dumb mistake and needed help cleaning up a bit of a mess as a result. I helped him set things right, but still told him what he did was pretty darn stupid. It's not a situation where you can either help or think someone was wrong. You can do both.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I regularly kick homeless people in the nuts and then give them $10. In that order of course.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Agreed. I regularly kick homeless people in the nuts and then give them $10. In that order of course.[/QUOTE]

You know, some homeless people would probably let you kick them in the nuts for $10.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Funny how now that he is rich, he deserves what he gets.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Knoell']Theres a difference between saying they are rich so they deserved it, which is what they just said, and being able to pay (which anyone making money could afford) and ignorant of the law, which is what UncleBob and I have been arguing.

Oh yeah rich people deserve to be treated differently because they can handle it, they are rich. :roll:[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Knoell']I never said anyone deserves it. Wealth envy is all I can say, once you guys hear the guy is living comfortably you turn on him like rabid animals.[/QUOTE]
Wealth envy is exactly why we hate this guy. He deserves all the sympathy and donations just because of that. It's not like he was burning trash in his backyard to get around having to PAY FOR TRASH REMOVAL EITHER THAT STARTED THIS WHOLE MESS.

He IS able to pay for the service, actually USED THE SERVICE, still DIDN'T PAY FOR THE SERVICE AFTER THE FIRST TIME, and WASN'T IGNORANT OF THE POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCES.

Gimme a break. You know what happens when you opt out of a service? You pound sand if shit goes south. It sucks when you're the one that is made an example to others, but better someone that can absorb the loss than someone who can't. Luckily for him, he can. I wonder if that fucker is paying for fire service now, or maybe the town should raise property taxes to cover this kind of thing for everyone because it's what they should've done in the first place. In matter of fact, I hope insurance covers his losses and then shoots his policy through the roof as well as requiring him to pay that fee.

I bet if this was some black or Latino family, the story would be Much different. GTFO with that wealth envy bullshit or back it up with something other than a talking point that will get torn down in an instant.
 
[quote name='Knoell']I never said anyone deserves it. Wealth envy is all I can say, once you guys hear the guy is living comfortably you turn on him like rabid animals.[/QUOTE]

Nope.

I didn't know this had happened before to the guy - he was certainly wreckless. But bad policy is bad policy.

How many examples do we need that markets don't work everywhere? They are just a specialized tool. It's like thinking that you can use a hammer to do everything - sometimes you need a sander or a paintbrush.
 
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