Firing Squad's "Xbox 360: Back to the Drawing Board" - 11 Design Mistakes

[quote name='CheapyD']http://firingsquad.com/hardware/xbox_360_mistakes/

Mistake #1: Overheating CPU or GPU
Mistake #2: No MSN Music
Mistake #3: No HDMI support
Mistake #4: 20GB is too small
Mistake #5: Microtransaction Security
Mistake #6: No Web Browser
Mistake #7: No WMV-HD DVD Playback
Mistake #9: No System-Wide Video Calibration
Mistake #10: Poor DVD Playback Quality
Mistake #11: No pressure sensitive face buttons[/QUOTE]

To be fair and point out that they're just bitching for the sake of bitching.. What other console is currently overheating? PS3 (the dev kits are even overheating to the point of melting). My 360 does not overheat. What the hell's HDMI? What console has supported MSN music? What other console even comes with a hard drive? What other current gen console has a web browser? (Dreamcast had one, PSP has one now and look where that led - viruses). Poor DVD playback quality? Uhh, no, sorry. Pressure sensitive face buttons? What the fuck? Why would you want pressure sensitive buttons?

Are they just pulling stuff out of their ass or what? You just can't make some people happy, and 6669's remark is just laughable. The 360 is awesome, there's just some fanboys that will go to any length to try to diss the 360.
 
I can understand #1, but the rest of those are nitpicking like crazy. Who really cares about all that shit? I sure as hell don't. A web browser would have been nice though, but I have a PC for that.
 
[quote name='Scorch']To be fair and point out that they're just bitching for the sake of bitching.. What other console is currently overheating? PS3 (the dev kits are even overheating to the point of melting). My 360 does not overheat. What the hell's HDMI? What console has supported MSN music? What other console even comes with a hard drive? What other current gen console has a web browser? (Dreamcast had one, PSP has one now and look where that led - viruses). Poor DVD playback quality? Uhh, no, sorry. Pressure sensitive face buttons? What the fuck? Why would you want pressure sensitive buttons?

Are they just pulling stuff out of their ass or what? You just can't make some people happy, and 6669's remark is just laughable. The 360 is awesome, there's just some fanboys that will go to any length to try to diss the 360.[/QUOTE]

Dude. Calm. Down.
 
[quote name='joevan']Oh, add another one - it doesn't give blowjobs either ;)[/QUOTE]

There's one reason why I didn't want one this close to launch.












I got it anyway.
 
It's actually pretty good to see that most of those reasons really aren't that important. They really show how well thought out the X360 was.
 
[quote name='Mr. Anderson']Dude. Calm. Down.[/QUOTE]

Dude. I'm. Not. Worked. Up.

I'm just saying.. none of their "faults" are even crucial to a decent gaming experience.
 
[quote name='joevan']Oh, add another one - it doesn't give blowjobs either ;)[/QUOTE]
You must be doing something wrong then.

Only #1 seems like a good reason to me.
 
Did you people bitching about the article even read it? Here, I'll even quote the author's closing thoughts.

While this article is focusing on all the problems of the Xbox 360, I'm still having a blast with the system. After adding an additional cooling fan to my unit, it's been perfect, even in an enclosed space. In a way, it is because Microsoft did so well everything else such as Gamer Cards, voice chat, and downloading demos from the Xbox Live Marketplace that these mistakes seem so much more glaring. I know Microsoft can't keep up with demand yet, but hopefully they'll be able to spend some time addressing these mistakes to make the Xbox 360 even better than it currently is.

The Xbox360 and Xbox Live are still superb products and technologies. They're better than anything that has ever been offered to consumers before. But you don't want to compete against a second-tier standard. Just because you're better than your nearest competitor doesn't mean that you've got a good product. Microsoft needs to compete against themselves and go the extra mile. The enemy of “good” is “better.”
Click to expand...

I think the article makes a lot of good points. If Microsoft is truly trying to make the XBox360 an entertainment-center-in-a-box, then these features would have helped put it in that place and given Sony a lot harder time with the PS3.

For those of you who say that #1 is the only real problem, I think I'd be concerned about the security of the XBL Marketplace as well. If CC info is indeed linked to/stored on the Xbox 360 (not owning one I am not certain if this is true or not) it's only a matter of time before it can be extracted from the system if your system gets stolen, or possibly even by 'haxorz' on XBox Live.
 
What? no web browser? How am I suppose to look at things on the internet? Will I have to get some sort of alternate device to let me do so??
 
"Mistake #3: No HDMI support"

ATi said it was technically possible while Anandtech says otherwise. I'm more inclined to believe ATi. So, maybe we will see HDMI support later on?
 
u mmmm in the end he says he likes it all the same...the article isn't meant to hate on the 360 or suggest that you "might as well wait for the ps3." but it's easier to focus on the bad things i guess. ;)
 
[quote name='Scorch']Dude. I'm. Not. Worked. Up.

I'm just saying.. none of their "faults" are even crucial to a decent gaming experience.[/QUOTE]

yeah ummm...im going to say that overheating and crashing kind of ruins a "decent gaming experience."

scorch, i love how your happy with mediocre. would you settle for jenny mccarthy with no arms and legs?
 
Of those, I only really care about #8, and only a little. I consider it a minor disappointment.

One real flaw that I'm seriously pissed off about, is the lack of a pass through port on the VGA adapter. It makes it 100% useless to me, I had to go back to my old adapter. I'd have to go out and buy a KVM box just to be able to use the 360 and the computer on the same monitor, and that would probably distort the image anyway. Not everyone has 2 inputs on their monitor.
 
I can see a MS LIVE version of MS Music at some point in the future. I would love that as a feature, to stream net radio through my 360. I don't think it's a mistake to not have it, but it would be a huge plus if added at some point. The way LIVE has expanded, I can see it happening...
 
[quote name='Msut77']Does one percent of the population have a tv that uses hdmi or even know what it is?[/QUOTE]
I don't know, but I'm hardly a videophile and I have it on my TV, so it can't be THAT rare.

[quote name='Scorch']To be fair and point out that they're just bitching for the sake of bitching.. What other console is currently overheating? PS3 (the dev kits are even overheating to the point of melting). My 360 does not overheat. What the hell's HDMI? What console has supported MSN music? What other console even comes with a hard drive? What other current gen console has a web browser? (Dreamcast had one, PSP has one now and look where that led - viruses). Poor DVD playback quality? Uhh, no, sorry. Pressure sensitive face buttons? What the fuck? Why would you want pressure sensitive buttons?

Are they just pulling stuff out of their ass or what? You just can't make some people happy, and 6669's remark is just laughable. The 360 is awesome, there's just some fanboys that will go to any length to try to diss the 360.[/QUOTE]
No, they're not just "pulling stuff out of their ass" in every case. I know you probably feel the need to justify your $400+ purchase as flawless, but there definitely are problems.

While "no MSN music," and "no web browser" falls under who-gives-a-shit, and "20 gb is too small" is nonsense, some of their points are valid. Just because YOU don't know what HDMI is doesn't mean the more discerning consumer (or at least those with the equipment to handle it) wouldn't want it. I'm honestly pretty surprised myself that it wasn't included, and it IS a flaw, admit it or not. Ditto for the video calibration. The DVD's playback quality is also a valid complaint as Microsoft's supposed "HD-era" machine only supports up to 480p for DVD playback, which is pretty sad. Don't support HD-DVD, fine...but at least bring your DVD player out of 2002. Your "uh, no, sorry" argument certainly turned the head of even the most learned scholars, though.

You bring up all these things and compare them to current consoles (and a future console where many of the features haven't been announced yet). Why are you comparing them to the past? This is supposed to be THE FUTURE according to Microsoft. It should be held to a higher standard.

Pressure sensitive face buttons are not a big deal, but they have become a standard and it's strange they wouldn't include those. A minor flaw, but a flaw regardless. GPU/CPU overheating are case-by-case so I don't know if that would qualify as a flaw with the system overall. One of my gripes - shoddy backwards compatibility - wasn't even on the list. To each their own, I guess.

I do like the 360, but there are problems. I'm sure the PS3 and NRev will have them too. Accept it.
 
They didn't think of this really great feature of the 360:

During the winter you can use it as a heater for the homeless while being able to play games

In all seriousness i love my 360 kinda pointless to make tincy wincy problems into real problems.
 
I have to agree with everything Kane said. Especially the fact the Backwards list is so small. I consider it a rather big flaw because I could basically give my friend my XBox for keeps, but I can't because only 20 out of my 130+ XBox games are backwards. I hope to God the list goes apeshit in the next few months.

Overall, unless my system craps out in the next two years (I bought the warranty anyways, so I'm covered for the next two years) I'm pretty happy with the purchase. When the PS3 comes out and blows it out of the water then all the Sony fanboys can rave, but right now the PS3 isn't out on the market yet.
 
I think the fact that it uses DVD discs instead of something with more storage capacity should be on the list. Some developers are already complaining about that. I think pressure sensitive buttons would've been nice, its more deserving of being on the list than a lot of others.
 
[quote name='Scorch']To be fair and point out that they're just bitching for the sake of bitching.. What other console is currently overheating? PS3 (the dev kits are even overheating to the point of melting). My 360 does not overheat. What the hell's HDMI? What console has supported MSN music? What other console even comes with a hard drive? What other current gen console has a web browser? (Dreamcast had one, PSP has one now and look where that led - viruses). Poor DVD playback quality? Uhh, no, sorry. Pressure sensitive face buttons? What the fuck? Why would you want pressure sensitive buttons?

Are they just pulling stuff out of their ass or what? You just can't make some people happy, and 6669's remark is just laughable. The 360 is awesome, there's just some fanboys that will go to any length to try to diss the 360.[/QUOTE]
Sorry. I'll quit voicing my opinions for your sake :roll:
 
From the article:

"These system crashes are prevalent and I have yet to encounter a single Xbox 360 owner living in a temperate climate who has not experienced at least one system crash."

I haven't had one...(Touch Wood!). I consider Pennsylvania pretty temperate, especially in the summer.

With any system launch the early adopters, like myself, are more like Beta Testers. Not so much in the sense of testing before the final product, but more like 'refining testing' or Post-Production testing. For example, the original XBOX and the Thompson DVD drives. There were no-read issues and they were fixed with subsequent Samsung drives. This generation will be the same...overheating issues will be addressed with an extra fan or decreased die size of the CPU. HDMI will be addressed with a new Cable hookup...(BTW, HDMI will be the new standard hookup in TV by 2009, replacing the coaxial hookup. Most TV's manufactured today should have HDMI input).

My final thoughts are that this is the chance you take with early adoption. If you are scared about these sort of things, get a dog instead. Or wait until the kinks are fixed. Just don't pee in my cheerios with opinoins of how Microsift screwed you because I am having a helluva time playing my 360! In two years, if I have issues I should be able to exchange my 360 of the updatred one anyway. No Worries!
 
I thought it was an interesting read... I mean, the overheating is an obvious design flaw. It's enough of a flaw that MS is aware and shipping out replacement systems for it (which I will give props to MS for, Sony I believe charged for PS2 repair when their launch was fubared).

The DVD playback.. I mean, if it's going to be marketed as a "HD console", yeah it should have better DVD playback and HDMI support.

I think some valid points were made.. and although it did have a good launch (in comparison to others in recent history), I think there were a few oversights.. I'm merely being objective on it.

As for me, I didn't get one.. I plan on it though, as I've learned my lesson from buying systems at launch (I have an Atari that's probably older than me, yet I'm on my second PS2 and Xbox.. something isn't right about that).
 
[quote name='Number83']"These system crashes are prevalent and I have yet to encounter a single Xbox 360 owner living in a temperate climate who has not experienced at least one system crash."

I haven't had one...(Touch Wood!). I consider Pennsylvania pretty temperate, especially in the summer.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. There are 2 in my house and neither one has crashed. And a friend of mine who owns one hasn't had a single problem with his yet, either.

The only place I hear of problems with systems is on the internet. And everyone knows that you have to believe 100% of what the internet says.
 
I have my 360 and I love it, but wtf with the brick, that thing is huge and looks ugly, also the 360 is noisy and is heavy as hell. Those issues are minor so I love my 360 I just want the RPG's man where are the RPG's.
 
Mistake #11: No pressure sensitive face buttons

The PS2 has pressure sensitive buttons and how many games take advantage of them? Not many. I would say that is just nitpicking. I also find it interesting that the PS3 has addressed many of these so called problems. I would say the article should be renamed, “11 reasons you should wait for a PS3”. It all comes down to price. Microsoft could make a super-duper console with all the bells and whistles but it would be cost prohibitive for most people. I mean come on, there are people griping about paying $400 for the “flawed 360. So some things had to be left out. I know there are many critics who feel the PS3 will be the be all, end all of consoles, but at what price? I may be willing to pay $500-$600 for a PS3 but your average consumer isn’t. I’ve heard reports that the PS3 will be one of the most expensive consoles ever made. I’ve also heard that it won’t be much more than the 360. My guess is that Sony will release the PS3 at around $400 with specs that are slightly scaled back from those given out at E3. They did the same thing with the PS2. Also, until I see games running on final PS3 hardware I’ll stick with my 360.
 
[quote name='pete5883']I think the fact that it uses DVD discs instead of something with more storage capacity should be on the list. Some developers are already complaining about that. I think pressure sensitive buttons would've been nice, its more deserving of being on the list than a lot of others.[/QUOTE]

I have a question on that. I know that there have been DVDs with 18 GB on them (double sided and dual layered) for movies made years ago. Why can't they do this with the Xbox 360 discs? Can't they put two dvds in the case, each one a flip disc for a total of 36 GB? That would be plenty for most any game coming in the future and we wouldn't have to deal with 4 disc monstrosity packaging.
 
[quote name='Scorch']Are they just pulling stuff out of their ass or what? You just can't make some people happy, and 6669's remark is just laughable. The 360 is awesome, there's just some fanboys that will go to any length to try to diss the 360.[/QUOTE]

Some of the things you say are laughable as well but that's the whole point of being able to express your opinions here. The only thing that concerns me on that list is the overheating but to some everything on the list is important. Dismissing their opinion doesn't make yours any more right or wrong...
 
[quote name='6669']There's 11 reasons why I didn't want one this close to launch.[/QUOTE]

Scorch I don't see anything in that post that implies that this person isn't intending to buy one or hates the xbox 360. Your the one who sounds like the fan boy here.
 
with all of the stuff left off, especially in regards to live...you have to remember that the system has only been out a month and some change.

i think when the 360 launched we expected Microsoft to have the 360 ready to do everything that every technofile could think of (which is impossible, i have to admit that half of the complaints i had little to no idea what he was talking about and it hasn't hindered my experience one bit)

am i a little disappointed of that it has overheating problems, yeah. will i probably find other minor quirks that i would have liked for it to do? yeah. but i think that comes with all systems, i mean i wished my original ps2 had come with an included ethernet port, but i still played it.

but the main thing with this post is think about when the original xbox launched. now think about how far its come with live, the controller s, even graphics. and those same leaps and bounds are going to happen when the 360 has been given some time.
 
Wow. If that shit is all they can come up with, Xbox 360 is the best console ever.

I laughed my ass off at the "20gb too small", these people have no idea what they're talking about, and the're writing proffesionaly. 20gb is not too small, if I ever use up that 20gb I will give you a blowjob.

I was extreamly disapointed when they said no web browser would be included. I was really hoping I could tap into the vast resources of porno on my TV as well as my PC.
But seriously, I pray everday that someone will come out with a hacked web browser.

Password protecting causes "seriouse inconveniance" :lol: Oh no! I have to enter 4 buttons! What ever shall I do! What a stupid fuck.

The video calibration isn't entirely riddiculous. But like I said earlier, if that's one of their complaints, damn, either they suck at coming up with stuff or this is the best system of all time.
 
[quote name='Odenat']Scorch I don't see anything in that post that implies that this person isn't intending to buy one or hates the xbox 360. Your the one who sounds like the fan boy here.[/QUOTE]

6669 said that's 11 reasons why they won't buy a 360 at launch. I doubt any of the above "problems" will be fixed. If the problems are preventing 6669 from getting a console at launch, and those problems remain, then 6669 will probably never get one.

I'm getting royally owned in this post. I just feel like they're reaching a bit much on some of the points.

You bring up all these things and compare them to current consoles (and a future console where many of the features haven't been announced yet). Why are you comparing them to the past? This is supposed to be THE FUTURE according to Microsoft. It should be held to a higher standard.
Click to expand...

You're right. You're also right in saying what you said about the HDMI input. I play on a standard flatscreen television, no HDTV or anything like that. I'm not as big into the graphics thing as some are which is why I said who cares about the HDMI stuff. I'm ignorant on the subject. Regarding DVD playback.. I've yet to notice anything looking bad, but like I said, it seems like they're just reaching at this point. I doubt many people bought the 360 to play DVDs on (I know, I know, this doesn't mean MS should slack on the player, though).

Regarding the lack of pressure sensitive face buttons.. the PS2 had them, right? And they were used primarily in racing games, right? The triggers on the 360 are pressure sensitive and are also used in racing games.. I guess it just gets down to which you like better, pressure sensitive face buttons or triggers. The zoom in Perfect Dark Zero is also pressure sensitive, which I thought was great.

I actually think the lack of a web browser is GOOD for the system, especially after the PSP fiasco. Sony fanboys would cripple the 360 with viruses or something.

OMG IT DOESNET HAV3 iTUNES SUPPORTZ!1!1!!

TEH 360 SUXORZ!1!1!!!
Click to expand...

That's the same thing I was thinking while I read the list, which is why I said it sounded/felt like they were reaching for things to complain about. Regarding overheating, i've yet to have a problem and i've had my 360 on for nine or ten hours a day as a test. The only problem that i've had so far is Perfect Dark froze on me once, but that seemed like a game error. I just restarted the system, replayed that level and everything was fine.

I did come off sounding like a fanboy, and for that, I apologize. The 360 isn't perfect by any means. The PS3 won't be, either. It's just getting annoying that people are saying "Wait for PS3! It'll rule!" when details haven't even been released. I've been royally owned in this post, so i'm bowing out.
 
[quote name='mmn']Exactly. There are 2 in my house and neither one has crashed. And a friend of mine who owns one hasn't had a single problem with his yet, either.

The only place I hear of problems with systems is on the internet. And everyone knows that you have to believe 100% of what the internet says.[/QUOTE]

I know personally of two that have had overheating problems. It isn't a myth. I agree with the article, MS probably underpowered the cooling to keep the system quiet. As an old man once told me, "The road to hell is paved on good intentions." :)
 
none of these are preventing me from getting one...but when i do get one, i hope that number 1 is remedied or at least improved upon...

the only dissappointment i have is with number 11...i liked pressure sensitive buttons :(
 
[quote name='Scorch']6669 said that's 11 reasons why they won't buy a 360 at launch. I doubt any of the above "problems" will be fixed. If the problems are preventing 6669 from getting a console at launch, and those problems remain, then 6669 will probably never get one.

It's just getting annoying that people are saying "Wait for PS3! It'll rule!" when details haven't even been released. I've been royally owned in this post, so i'm bowing out.[/QUOTE]


You're trying to mock him for waiting on buying a 360? You know at least #1 will be fixed sometime in the future. With a mediocre launch lineup, many people including me thought it not necessary to buy the 360 on launch. I think I'll wait till at least spring of next year before I think of buying a 360.

As far as people saying wait for the PS3, I really haven't seen that in this thread. If anything I'll be waiting for the revolution. Of the last generation, I played GCN and XBX way more than my PS2(despite the large library of games).
 
[quote name='rywateska']Do any of those stand a chance of being fixed and/or changed?[/QUOTE]
That's the problem with the list. None of these are actually problems. Here's my "Back to the drawing board" Halo 2 complaints:

No Jetpack
Seriously, no jetpack
I don't get to see the MC's face
No cortana virtual sex minigame
No jetpack
damnitt, there's flying covenant, but no jetpack!!
Jet
Pack
um
this makes ten lines, right?
 
While not everything on the list is important to me, but a few do stand out:

Mistake #1: Overheating CPU or GPU
- I think this speaks for itself. My concern is when summer rolls around, esp. since I only have none/localized air conditioning.

Mistake #2: No MSN Music
- I don't care about this at all (as an Itunes person), but as a marketing person, I am rather surprised by the lack of "synergy" esp., as mentioned in the article, an entire payment system was already established in Live. Well, less clutter then :)

Mistake #3: No HDMI support
- HDMI is being considered the secure input method for the next generation of TVs/high definition dvds (I personally do not like what HDMI stands for in the next generation of HD playback, but it seems the dvd and dvd player manufacturers are playing nice on this). Lack of HDMI means that in the future, it's possible certain proprietary content will not be available to the xbox 360 since it would be considered unsecure. This is just conjecture, of course.

Mistake #4: 20GB is too small
- again, if we're thinking "next gen", HD content will probably be considered important. Currently, my HD-DVR used 10GB of space for 1 hour of HD content (it has a 200GB harddrive, and records only 20 hours of content). 20GB is great if you're just going to save games and various smaller sized content, but the hard drive size would hobble the system when more elaborate HD content becomes available.

Mistake #5: Microtransaction Security
- like the article said, it might be an issue when the secondary used console market comes into play (or even worse, theft)

Mistake #7: No WMV-HD DVD Playback
- Not important at all, but I would have like to have seen this feature. I currently have "Step Into Liquid" and "Terminator 2" in the WMV-HD format (comes as an extra 2nd disc with the "regular" dvd), and it would be nice to give it a try to see what the format is capable of (I can only play the discs on the computer, and I don't have it as a Media Center connected to the TV...computer monitor only then). Since the format was DOA, like the article states, it might have made a nice interim between DVD and HD-DVD (although I still wonder how they would ever transition to HD-DVD since it might be SegaCD all over again with a hardware attachment sold separately).

Mistake #9: No System-Wide Video Calibration
- The King Kong issue proves this point. While probably not necessary for all games, having the option would be nice especially with the divergence in TV quality the console will be played on (as well as varied cables, personal preference, etc.).

Mistake #10: Poor DVD Playback Quality
- I would never use a console as my dvd player, by there seems to be alot of people out there who do.

Mistake #11: No pressure sensitive face buttons
- doesn't matter to me personally, but it is strange to remove something that was available in the previous gen.

As others have noted these points earlier, I also voice the same concern of continued use of the DVD format (the disc size limit will be especially felt as games are developed) & the limited backward compatibility to the XBOX 1 games.

And I realize Scorch has already bowed out of the thread, but it's rather sad that people are freaking out over an article suggesting certain constructive criticisms made about the console. While I didn't find all of them to be important for my own use, I did find a few with valid points. I know alot of people here are satisfied with the console, and that's great, but I believe the goal of the article is to look 2-4 years down the line.

Being nearsighted, oblivious, and overly defensive would be distasterous, esp. if you consider yourself a fan of a particular console.
 
That list is embarrassing. It really is.

Also, regarding the 20gb hard drive, didn't Microsoft state that they're releasing hard drives with more gigs in the future long before the launch. "Back to the drawing board" my ass.
 
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