Florida State Court says 13 year-old can't have abortion

E-Z-B

E-Z-B

CAGiversary!
Here we go. Back to the dark ages with using coat-hangers :roll:

A pregnant 13-year-old girl in Florida has been told she cannot have an abortion because she lacks the maturity to make such a decision.
A state court granted an injunction which prevents the girl from terminating her pregnancy.

She is three months pregnant and had planned to have an abortion on Tuesday of this week.

The American Civil Liberties Union says it will launch an urgent appeal against the ruling.

'Too young to choose'

Florida's department of children and families intervened and took the matter to court, arguing the teenager, who is under the care of the state, is too young and immature to make an informed medical decision. Judge Ronald Alvarez in Palm Beach accepted that argument and has granted a temporary injunction and psychological evaluation, which effectively blocks her from terminating the pregnancy.

It is a case which, once again, plays into the heated and divisive debate about abortion in America.

The judge's ruling comes in spite of Florida state law which specifically does not require a minor to seek parental consent before an abortion.

The American Civil Liberties Union 's executive director in Florida, Howard Simon, said forcing a 13-year-old to carry on an unwanted pregnancy to term, against her wishes, is not only illegal and unconstitutional, it is cruel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4500245.stm
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']Such bullshit. She's also too young to choose to have sex, but I guess they just overlooked that part of it.[/QUOTE]
Does this mean you're going to be a father syblmnlcrymnl? :twisted:

But this ruling does seem unfounded considering Florida has a law stating otherwise.
 
[quote name='dcfox']Does this mean you're going to be a father syblmnlcrymnl? :twisted:

But this ruling does seem unfounded considering Florida has a law stating otherwise.[/QUOTE]

No, I haven't been to Florida in years. :lol:
 
[quote name='E-Z-B']A pregnant 13-year-old girl in Florida has been told she cannot have an abortion because she lacks the maturity to make such a decision. [/QUOTE]

Good thing she's mature enough to raise a child. I hope it's a girl so we can have another stripper in the world, instead of another criminal holding me up at the ATM with a shiv.

...sometimes you gotta take the lesser of two evils...
 
The right-wing is deeply concerned about the welfare of children (unless they're already born). I hope the State of Florida is ready to help out with the cost of raising that child, including food, clothing, education, and health care.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']No, I haven't been to Florida in years. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Yeah, no need to drive to Florida since that School of Rock dvd came out...
 
Who wants to bet that they're gonna tie this up in court for 9 months.

If a 13 year old can't make decisions about making life (having a kid) then they also shouldn't be able to make decisions about taking lives. Let's pass a law that makes the christian god (or the power of Jebus) reanimate anyone who is killed by a 13 year old in Florida.

If we're going to have a country ruled by christian power, let's at least do it up right.
 
The real problem here is that the judge's ruling is in direct contradiction of state laws. Normally, at this point, there'd be conservatives on TV screaming about activist judges, but for some strange reason, I'm willing to bet that they'll be mysteriously absent in this case. Which is weird, really, since Tom DeLay feels so strongly that judges should adhere absolutely to the laws - you really would think he'd come out and condemn this judgement. I guess if somebody shoots up a courtroom now, we can blame it on 13 year olds who can't get an abortion.
 
Yeah, I don't see the Republicans in Congress passing a special law or flying to Florida so this little girl gets her Constitutional rights upheld.
 
What constitutional rights are being violated on this MINOR??

Please show me the Florida "law" everyone is talking about...
 
This just in:

Fla. Judge OKs Abortion for 13-Year-Old

The Associated Press
Tuesday, May 3, 2005; 10:16 AM


WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- A judge has ruled that a 13-year-old girl at the center of an abortion fight with the state may terminate her pregnancy.

Juvenile Judge Ronald Alvarez on Monday ruled that the teen, who has been in state custody for four years, would not be physically or emotionally harmed by the procedure. Last week, Alvarez blocked the girl's abortion until a psychological evaluation was completed.

"He ruled that she is competent, that she has made a decision and that she has a right to act on that decision," said Howard Simon, executive director of the Florida American Civil Liberties Union, which represented the girl.

The state Department of Children & Families had argued that the girl, known only in court papers as L.G., was too young and immature to decide for herself to have an abortion. The agency said state law prohibited the agency from consenting to the procedure.

Children and families officials declined to comment Monday on whether they planned to appeal Alvarez's decision. "Since this is still in litigation, I can't speak to what's going on in court," agency spokeswoman Marilyn Munoz told the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

Attorneys for the girl said the abortion was scheduled for Monday, but it was unclear whether the girl underwent the procedure.

The girl told the judge last week as part of the psychological evaluation process that she wanted an abortion, citing her age and no way to support a baby. The girl's attorneys argue that Florida law protects a minor's right to choose an abortion.

A measure is moving through the state Legislature to require notification of parents or guardians when girls seek abortion. In 2003, the Florida Supreme Court struck down a 1999 law requiring parents to be notified if their minor daughters seek an abortion.
Click to expand...

link

I bet DeLay is already warming up his corporate-provided plane...
 
Juvenile Judge Ronald Alvarez on Monday ruled that the teen, who has been in state custody for four years, would not be physically or emotionally harmed by the procedure. Last week, Alvarez blocked the girl's abortion until a psychological evaluation was completed.
Click to expand...

so I still fail to see why, even if she has been in state custody, her guardians had any say legally. Seems like the competency question was just politics. BTW, where were her state guardians while she was out having sex at 13? and if she's not capable of deciding this, how is she more capabke of deakig with a lifetime of decisions after having a child when she's still a child herself?
 
fuck the children.

The bible and how Jerry Falwell interperets it is all that matters.

So what if she dies during childbirth, and if the baby dies too? It is all part of gods plan, right.


[/sarcasm]
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']fuck the children.

The bible and how Jerry Falwell interperets it is all that matters.

So what if she dies during childbirth, and if the baby dies too? It is all part of gods plan, right.


[/sarcasm][/QUOTE]

Wow, where the hell have you been?
 
[quote name='tauruskatt']BTW, where were her state guardians while she was out having sex at 13?[/QUOTE]

She ran away. I saw another newssite about this and it said that she had a history of running away. Also, an update on the situation. It seems the judge will actually let the girl go through w/ the abortion (even though this is a no brainer really). It can be found here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4510847.stm
 
Uh oh, I bet ol' Jeb's base isn't going to be too happy that he's not intervening in this...
 
[quote name='Derwood43']What constitutional rights are being violated on this MINOR??

Please show me the Florida "law" everyone is talking about...[/QUOTE]



:whistle2:k
Anyone?
 
[quote name='Derwood43']:whistle2:k
Anyone?[/QUOTE]

It's not my job to Google for you. Minors are allowed to have abortions in FL without parental consent.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']It's not my job to Google for you. Minors are allowed to have abortions in FL without parental consent.[/QUOTE]

It's not my job to defend your statement.
 
[quote name='Derwood43']It's not my job to defend your statement.[/QUOTE]

You were asking for information that you could easily look up yourself.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']You were asking for information that you could easily look up yourself.[/QUOTE]

What a dumbass

Even though that other guy is an idiot, if you are in an argument it is always your job to prove your own statements.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']What a dumbass

Even though that other guy is an idiot, if you are in an argument it is always your job to prove your own statements.[/QUOTE]

When every article sited here has stated that Florida law does not require parental consent for abortions by minors, why is it my duty to look up Florida statutes just because someone wants to nitpick? If he doesn't believe it's the law, he should look it up and prove all the news stories wrong.
 
Maybe it's time to look at this situation in a new light...

Would you let your daughter have an abortion?

I believe it significantly changes our viewpoints when we are disassociated from a topic. Arguing for the sake of arguing may be our national pasttime, but it doesn't accomplish anything.
 
[quote name='atreyue']Maybe it's time to look at this situation in a new light...

Would you let your daughter have an abortion?

I believe it significantly changes our viewpoints when we are disassociated from a topic. Arguing for the sake of arguing may be our national pasttime, but it doesn't accomplish anything.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I would.
 
[quote name='atreyue']Why?[/QUOTE]

Because it would be her body and her decision. I would also support her if she wanted to have the child.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']Because it would be her body and her decision. I would also support her if she wanted to have the child.[/QUOTE]

I can understand where you're coming from, but I think it sends the wrong message about premarital sex, having responsibility for your actions, and just plain understanding that you're too young to do certain things. I know that a baby is a pretty severe object lesson, but since I'd be raising the child anyway I think it's more than a fair trade.
 
Keep in mind that the 13 year old is a child run-away. There's no one there to give her these "messages".
 
[quote name='atreyue']I can understand where you're coming from, but I think it sends the wrong message about premarital sex, having responsibility for your actions, and just plain understanding that you're too young to do certain things. I know that a baby is a pretty severe object lesson, but since I'd be raising the child anyway I think it's more than a fair trade.[/QUOTE]

I don't think the abortion would be a cakewalk either. So you think there has to be some kind of punishment for premarital sex? Yikes!
 
[quote name='atreyue']I can understand where you're coming from, but I think it sends the wrong message about premarital sex, having responsibility for your actions, and just plain understanding that you're too young to do certain things. I know that a baby is a pretty severe object lesson, but since I'd be raising the child anyway I think it's more than a fair trade.[/QUOTE]
So you think pretty much destroying your child's life is a fair punishment? Glad I'm not your kid :p

It doesn't matter in this case anyway: In Florida, you'd have NO say in the matter anyway. She doesn't even have to inform you, let alone get your permission to have an abortion.
 
I think that people don't understand the consequences of their actions until they really have to go through them. Most people rush into marriage just because divorce is so easy and common. And abortion really is a cakewalk comparatively. I don't want my kids to devalue human life, and I just don't see how there could be any other outcome. Anyone who thinks that abortion is anything other than a selfish choice is fooling themselves. The fact that inconvenient things happen is a huge part of life. Sweeping mistakes under the rug is a weak thing to do or teach.
 
[quote name='Drocket']So you think pretty much destroying your child's life is a fair punishment? Glad I'm not your kid :p

It doesn't matter in this case anyway: In Florida, you'd have NO say in the matter anyway. She doesn't even have to inform you, let alone get your permission to have an abortion.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm surprised that there's no parental notification in Florida of all places. But they have been trying to add it. They just keep writing unconstitutional laws that get struck down by those damn, liberal activist judges. :)
 
[quote name='atreyue']I think that people don't understand the consequences of their actions until they really have to go through them. Most people rush into marriage just because divorce is so easy and common. And abortion really is a cakewalk comparatively. I don't want my kids to devalue human life, and I just don't see how there could be any other outcome. Anyone who thinks that abortion is anything other than a selfish choice is fooling themselves. The fact that inconvenient things happen is a huge part of life. Sweeping mistakes under the rug is a weak thing to do or teach.[/QUOTE]

Your kids are going to have a plethora of choices for rebelling in their teens. Have fun! :lol:
 
[quote name='atreyue']I think that people don't understand the consequences of their actions until they really have to go through them. Most people rush into marriage just because divorce is so easy and common. And abortion really is a cakewalk comparatively. I don't want my kids to devalue human life, and I just don't see how there could be any other outcome. Anyone who thinks that abortion is anything other than a selfish choice is fooling themselves. The fact that inconvenient things happen is a huge part of life. Sweeping mistakes under the rug is a weak thing to do or teach.[/QUOTE]

SHE'S 13! For god's sake, she shouldn't have to lose her childhood because republicans think they know what's best for her. Let her be a child for 5 more years, let her mature so that she's capable of understanding the consequences of her actions, and stop being an additional hardship on this child's already difficult life.
 
[quote name='E-Z-B']SHE'S 13! For god's sake, she shouldn't have to lose her childhood because republicans think they know what's best for her. Let her be a child for 5 more years, let her mature so that she's capable of understanding the consequences of her actions, and stop being an additional hardship on this child's already difficult life.[/QUOTE]

She threw her childhood away when she decided to f*ck at the age of 12 or 13. Let's not pretend she's missing out on a wonderful idyllic youth. She's running around f*cking, sucking dicks, smoking weed (we all know it's true). Now imagine that being your daughter. This isn't some immaculate conception, or E.T. touched my finger and knocked me up shit. SHE ruined her own life when she decided to act like a grown woman. Lose her childhood? You mean lose her opportunity to fuck up as much as possible with a total disregard for her own well-being. That's supposed to be what a good parent encourages? Bullshit. Her life is difficult solely because she chooses to make it so. Making her bear her child gives her what may be the only chance to become a good and decent person.
 
[quote name='E-Z-B']SHE'S 13! For god's sake, she shouldn't have to lose her childhood because republicans think they know what's best for her. Let her be a child for 5 more years, let her mature so that she's capable of understanding the consequences of her actions, and stop being an additional hardship on this child's already difficult life.[/QUOTE]


QUICK!!! Someone get a towel...this man's heart is bleeding!!!!:cry:


Big freakin deal. If she thinks she's old enough to have sex, she's old enough to live with the consequences. I understand that I'm from Oklahoma, and we actually have values and morals here, but this is common sense. A 5 year old knows right from wrong. A 13 year old for damn sure knows what the consequences are. My sister-in-law went through this when she was 16. She got exactly what she deserved. In a world where everyone is crying "unfair!", the fact that she got pregnant is a perfect example of our world being fair. Unprotected sex + No contraceptive = Really good chance of getting pregnant. She would have been lucky to NOT get pregnant. Why should she get bailed out for HER mistake???


EDIT: atreyue beat me to it. Great minds...
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']Yeah, I'm surprised that there's no parental notification in Florida of all places. But they have been trying to add it. They just keep writing unconstitutional laws that get struck down by those damn, liberal activist judges. :)[/QUOTE]

Hooray for the system for not allowing parents to parent their kids! What does it mean to be a minor again? Oh yeah, that you are not recognized as an adult or as having the rights of an adult and need a guardian. A guardian is someone qualified to make decisions on your behalf. Kids never think this is neccessary, and this is one of the things that tells adults that children definitely don't know what they are talking about. The fact that adults buy into that bullshit too is a pretty fair indication that they are idiots.
 
You guys are assuming that this kid just decided one day to do this stuff, on her own free will. How do you think young kids get into that? It's not like the fairy tale stories that you here today, about how "she was such a great kid that everybody loved, but one day she was curious and tried drugs, and now she's an addict with 8 kids and she's only 23". That's NOT how it happens.

When children are abused, it messes them up. I would bet dollars to donuts that her homelife was an absolute wreck, which is why she's running out and getting pregnant at 13. Normal kids from healthy households don't do that, and screwed up kids shouldn't have to pay for their screwed up parents mistakes.

Instead of blaming the result, why not take a look at the cause? This 13 year old should be "sentenced" to 5 years of therapy, so that she may have a shot at living a happy life.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']Your kids are going to have a plethora of choices for rebelling in their teens. Have fun! :lol:[/QUOTE]

If rebelling is doing something you know is wrong, there will be a lot of things they could choose to do. Knowing that there are consequences to those actions and that I have no intention of shielding them from or underhandedly encouraging them to do those things will keep their asses in line.
 
[quote name='atreyue']Hooray for the system for not allowing parents to parent their kids! What does it mean to be a minor again? Oh yeah, that you are not recognized as an adult or as having the rights of an adult and need a guardian. A guardian is someone qualified to make decisions on your behalf. Kids never think this is neccessary, and this is one of the things that tells adults that children definitely don't know what they are talking about. The fact that adults buy into that bullshit too is a pretty fair indication that they are idiots.[/QUOTE]

As I just said, these parents shouldn't have been able to have a child in the first place. If the guardian's decision was that the child should be locked up in a basement and fed once a week, would you be in favor of that? Because OBVIOUSLY every single parent must be a competant human being, which is why we don't have things like physical and sexual abuse. Wait, we do. Wait, half of the people who have children really shouldn't be having them. Wait, we as a government let people have all the kids they want and then we blame the kids when they turn out to be screwed up.

Not all adults are competant human beings, never mind competant parents. First you must understand this before anything else.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']As I just said, these parents shouldn't have been able to have a child in the first place. If the guardian's decision was that the child should be locked up in a basement and fed once a week, would you be in favor of that? Because OBVIOUSLY every single parent must be a competant human being, which is why we don't have things like physical and sexual abuse. Wait, we do. Wait, half of the people who have children really shouldn't be having them. Wait, we as a government let people have all the kids they want and then we blame the kids when they turn out to be screwed up.

Not all adults are competant human beings, never mind competant parents. First you must understand this before anything else.[/QUOTE]

You're right. It is definitely in these days to blame every else for their problems. Of course only kids who are abused run around having sex doing drugs and getting pregnant. Whether or not her parents are fucked up isn't the issue, and the laws across the country that allow kids to keep their wrongdoings and mistakes from their parents aren't in place for this reason. Let's not pick extremes in an attempt to add weight to your argument.

:-({|= for all the kids mistreated by their parents. I was sexually abused (not by my parents) raised in many different homes, both of my parents were crackheads (not the fun Dave Chappelle variety), and I grew up in poverty and welfare most of my life. Yet I'm not a screwup. My parents were totally fucked up, yet their parents had no problems. there's no science to this. Dealing with the consequences of your actions isn't a punishment, it's the only thing that teaches true responsibility. I learned that as I watched my father battle his addiction and eventually win. The sooner we stop embracing this bullshit escapist mentality, the sooner these problems will go away.
 
atreyue - you're not getting it. She HAS NO parents. She's a runaway. She's not your typical suburban teen rebelling against her parents.
 
[quote name='atreyue']You're right. It is definitely in these days to blame every else for their problems. Of course only kids who are abused run around having sex doing drugs and getting pregnant. Whether or not her parents are fucked up isn't the issue, and the laws across the country that allow kids to keep their wrongdoings and mistakes from their parents aren't in place for this reason. Let's not pick extremes in an attempt to add weight to your argument.

:-({|= for all the kids mistreated by their parents. I was sexually abused (not by my parents) raised in many different homes, both of my parents were crackheads (not the fun Dave Chappelle variety), and I grew up in poverty and welfare most of my life. Yet I'm not a screwup. My parents were totally fucked up, yet their parents had no problems. there's no science to this. Dealing with the consequences of your actions isn't a punishment, it's the only thing that teaches true responsibility. I learned that as I watched my father battle his addiction and eventually win. The sooner we stop embracing this bullshit escapist mentality, the sooner these problems will go away.[/QUOTE]

What if the state had forced your father to live with crack addicts for 18 years? What if he was around crack being smoked day in and day out. That's essentially what you're advocating for this girl, you know.
 
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