Gamestop advice - T or F? [Use PS3 101 Thread Above]

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melokeith

CAGiversary!
I have been trying to figure out what to buy - a used 60 gb, or a 40 gb, or wait for the 80 gb w/MGS. I think I understand the features and drawbacks of each system - thanks in no small part to reading posts on this site...
I do care about BC, because we bought a used PS2 in the fall and have been using it as the family fun machine - karaoke games, rockband, buzz, etc.

I stopped by my local Gamestop and asked about a used 60 - the girl said that the don't get them anymore really at their location - but she said the following, which I was hoping some of you could chime in on:

1) the ones w/bc run slower as the bc bogs down the system a little - so she recommended the 40 as it runs "smoother"
2) along the same lines, the BC makes the 60 run hotter which is why they had more overheating problems than the 40's
3) the 40 has bc potential built in but Sony has not activated it - she said there's a rumor that it will happen in the future

Most of these were completely new to me - I've scoured the internet over the last month or so, and think I would have heard about most of these if they're true -

Thanks in advance,
Keith
 
[quote name='melokeith']I have been trying to figure out what to buy - a used 60 gb, or a 40 gb, or wait for the 80 gb w/MGS. I think I understand the features and drawbacks of each system - thanks in no small part to reading posts on this site...
I do care about BC, because we bought a used PS2 in the fall and have been using it as the family fun machine - karaoke games, rockband, buzz, etc.

I stopped by my local Gamestop and asked about a used 60 - the girl said that the don't get them anymore really at their location - but she said the following, which I was hoping some of you could chime in on:

1) the ones w/bc run slower as the bc bogs down the system a little - so she recommended the 40 as it runs "smoother"
2) along the same lines, the BC makes the 60 run hotter which is why they had more overheating problems than the 40's
3) the 40 has bc potential built in but Sony has not activated it - she said there's a rumor that it will happen in the future

Most of these were completely new to me - I've scoured the internet over the last month or so, and think I would have heard about most of these if they're true -

Thanks in advance,
Keith[/quote]

She's trying to handle you. None of that is true.

The 60's might've ran hotter because the cooling was early in production but they're just as stable as the new 40's/80's.

40's don't have BC "built in" she's full of it. Even the 80 gb's with software emulation had the video-chip from the PS2 on them, they just didn't have the emotion engine(The processor). It's technically impossible to get BC on a 40gb.

BC doesn't slow the system down because the system is guaranteed to run at the same speed no matter what. In what way would it slow it down? Booting up? Playing games? Accessing data?

WAs she at least cute? If she was, tell her you'll get a new 40 if she lets you take her to a movie for happy times.

If not, she's full of crap and just wants to sell you a new 40 because she doesn't have used 60's or they don't make as much revenue on used 60's.
 
Well, since this is a new set of items... let's see if we can't figure these out...

As for #1... well, that seems like quite a load, since BC isn't running when the system isn't using it... The BC setup isn't running like some sort of cron job or polled circuit that checks to see if you've put in a Ps2 DVD every 30 seconds or something... :)

As for #2... the machine may well run hotter, but that's not due to BC, but to larger die sizes and components within the system itself... (every iteration of the PS3 will improve on that, and heat will never be an issue, and frankly isn't one to begin with... it's a solid machine.)

As for #3... that's probably not true... since the reason the 40 has no BC is it's missing some chips required for PS2 BC... the 80 only removed on portion and did most of it in software.... but with none of the helper chips there, I suspect it is only useful as PS1 BC (on the 40, I mean), and will continue to be such... I wouldn't hold my breath... not that it matters much to you since you've a PS2 already for BC. :)
 
thanks for the quick replies. Glad my BS radar went off and posted here to the "experts" :D

Bjs has a 40 w/spiderman movie and ratchet & clank w/extra controller for $489 - worth it or not?
 
if you planned on getting extra controller and ratchet and clank, that's a good deal. If not, there's a 10% off Kmart coupon that works in-store from being printed that's floating around.

I got $40 off my Ps3 40gb and used the extra $40 to buy the 3 year service plan.
 
[quote name='melokeith']1) the ones w/bc run slower as the bc bogs down the system a little - so she recommended the 40 as it runs "smoother"[/quote]Well, let's just put it this way, she's lying there, because there is ZERO performance difference between either SKU. None will slowdown. The only slight difference is the 20GB SKU has a smaller cache, so some games that utilize the HDD may load slower than any other SKU (GripShift is a perfect example of this).


2) along the same lines, the BC makes the 60 run hotter which is why they had more overheating problems than the 40's
Click to expand...
Yes and no. Yes the 60GB runs hotter, but that's because it uses many more components. Part of the reason it has many more components is because of the PS2 BC, and it does NOT have a 65nm Cell CPU (All other SKUs are 90nm Cell). PS3 does NOT have major overheating issues. The 40GB does draw less current and uses much less power, no doubt about it.

3) the 40 has bc potential built in but Sony has not activated it - she said there's a rumor that it will happen in the future
Click to expand...
It probably will happen in the future, once:
-Sony figures out how to run PS2 games without the GS and EE, and get a high percentage up and running.
-When PS2 starts to die off and become hard to find (right now, there isn't a big reason for PS2 BC since PS2 consoles are easily available, unlike the PS1).

In my personal opinion, if you WANT to use PS2 games that support accessories, I recommend sticking to a PS2 and getting a 40GB. If you want to play PS2 games that don't support special accessories, you may be okay. I highly advise to NOT get a used 60GB or 20GB at least, because some older PS3 consoles are starting to fail (mostly 60GB ones, according to polls I've seen) usually due to no longer being able to read discs, and a PS3 repair requires the original receipt if it's in warranty). An 80GB will be fine (MGS4 bundle, if that's what you want).
 
[quote name='hone']what's the rate of failure on the 60s?[/QUOTE]In my view, I'd say 3-5%. It's still low, but some it may happen to. It usually happens to do who keep their PS3 too dusty, did a lot of Folding@Home (which puts wear and tear on a console), or just abusing the PS3. That's the main reason why I advise not getting a used one at times because the previous owner might have done any of those. Then 60GB IS the most complex hardware out of all the SKUs for sure.

This was a poll at PSU, althought for number of SKUs available, it goes 60GB, then 40GB (There might be more 40GB consoles worldwide right now, I dunno), then 80GB (only came to U.S. and Korea), and lastly 20GB.
 
[quote name='melokeith']thanks for the quick replies. Glad my BS radar went off and posted here to the "experts" :D

Bjs has a 40 w/spiderman movie and ratchet & clank w/extra controller for $489 - worth it or not?[/QUOTE]
I paid $514 for that same setup at Costco (edit: mine actually also included the Bluray remote). What's BJ's return policy? The *only* reason I bought my system from Costco is because of the great return policy. If they've also got a lifetime return policy, you should go for it. Unless you have no desire to play R&C. That package is genuinely worth $500 easy.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']In my view, I'd say 3-5%. It's still low, but some it may happen to. It usually happens to do who keep their PS3 too dusty, did a lot of Folding@Home (which puts wear and tear on a console), or just abusing the PS3. That's the main reason why I advise not getting a used one at times because the previous owner might have done any of those. Then 60GB IS the most complex hardware out of all the SKUs for sure.[/quote]

I'd guess the majority of 20/60GB deaths is due to Pickup head failure. Some of the early BR diodes had problems and I've heard of quite a few that refused to read any discs, as a percentage of all PS3 failures I've heard of (which granted, is not many).

I further don't think folding puts undue wear on a console EXCEPT for the people who are too stupid to realize that spinning fans collect dust, which occasionally needs to be cleaned up. Processors don't "wear out" from doing calculations, and fans and hdds actually live longer if they never spin down. My oldest PS3 is at 500 WUs processed (roughly 6 months of folding 164-168 hours a week), with no ill effects, and there are dozens of other units on my folding team who have done many more than that. One unit among all those did fail, but it was due to a seized bearing in the cooling fan, which would have killed the unit whether it was folding or not (and it was relatively new).
 
the Mean Time to Failure on HDs was 5 years like 5 years ago. I'm sure it's much shorter now. Hard Drives do die being put under load constantly. That's why there's a recommended amount of use during the day on some hard drives at least a few years back with the fiasco of the IBM drives in 2002/2003sh. I doubt the hard drives being put in the ps3 are of server quality, which are meant to be under load constantly, but they still fail all the time. That's why there's RAID and backup storage. Pretty much hard drives are the most unreliable component in most pcs. If I learned anything from storage systems, it's to have multiple backups of anything important.
 
[quote name='hone']the Mean Time to Failure on HDs was 5 years like 5 years ago. I'm sure it's much shorter now. Hard Drives do die being put under load constantly.[/quote]

Yes they do. But they die even MORE often when they're first starting up. I've replaced more than my share throughout my career--I'd guess 5-8,000 drives over the past 15 years, and for various reasons. But on a per-drive basis, desktop hard drives fail at least 30x more often than server drives. Some of that is due to build quality, as you mention (The WD drives from 1998-2000 were even worse than the DeathStars, as were the 2 and 4GB Quantum BigFoots from 1996-1998). But a lot of it is due to stress of repeatedly spinning up and down.

All my drives at home (except for my laptop and 360) spin 24/7, and currently that's 9 spindles. Only the consoles' drives are less than two years old, and the ones in my oldest tivo are 8 years old. The only time in the past twenty years I've EVER had a drive fail at home was when I lived in an apartment and my PC was in my room, so I had to shut it down every night. One day it just wouldn't boot (I did eventually end up recovering most of the data). Come to think of it, I actually had TWO drives fail in the one year I lived there--A 2.1GB Quantum Atlas II and a 9.1GB Micropolis--both server-class drives.

I'll put it this way--I've never in my life had a working hard drive that I was afraid to leave running, thinking it would fail. But on numerous occasions, I've had machines on two UPSes because I was worried if it ever shut down, it would never come back up.
 
Typical, my GameStop brothern try to sell the GameStop name and act smart... The exact opposite of what they should be doing.

1.) Bash GameStop whenever possible
2.) People will become loyal customers if you actually tell them the truth. The 60gb is the best model out there without a doubt.(Well in my opinion it is, Fully BC along with being cheaper then the 40gb model and the 80gb model) The overheating of a system will occure with any system if you keep it in an enclosed area where dust will fill up all of the vents.
 
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