Gaming PC: Build or Buy?

secondnightmare

secondnightmare

CAG Veteran
Hello! I am currently using a crappy Toshiba laptop and I've been content with it mainly since I only own Serious Sam 2 and Diablo 2 but now that I have Doom3 and Resurrection fo Evil, I realize that I need a desktop and a badass one at that.

I am selling my dirtbike to pay for it so money isn't a problem, I just want a PC that will come decked out and be easy to upgrade memory and graphic card-wise in the future when more advanced games come out.

For an already built system, I am looking at an Alienware Aurora desktop PC which starts at $999. That's the standard one. It sounds like a good deal and someone on ebay says his played Doom 3 at 140fps. That works. I'm only worried that it will be hard to impossible to upgrade memory and the graphic cards in the future when more advanced games come out. Any thoughts? Any other systems out there?

I've never built a PC from scratch but I have tinkered with them (like installing extra memory or an internet card) and I'm willing to learn to build one. I just don't wanna get all of the parts and not know what to do with them...

Thanks for your time!
 
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Well the hardest part in building a PC is troubleshooting once something goes wrong. The installation itself (assuming you purchased quality parts) is simple really, just follow the instructions.

I'd say build a PC...prices for really good parts are plummeting. You can get a really, really good PC for $1500, and very reasonably powerful one for $1000, give or take a few hundred for monitors, OS, etc.

Look here for suggestions & prices:

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189217
or
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187965
 
Building is the way to go. You save a ton of money in the long run and it's much more satisfying.

One thing you should take in to consideration about Doom 3 running at 140FPS is that compared to recent releases (mainly Crysis), Doom 3 is old, out of date and nowhere near as system-intensive as new releases.

As far as it being "hard to impossible" to upgrade memory and the graphics card, you shouldn't have any problems with an Alienware. You would only really have to worry about upgrade issues if you were to buy from a company that uses proprietary parts (such as Dell). PCI Express is the norm for graphics cards and will be for quite some time, so you don't have to worry about compatibility issues.

One thing that does kind of bother me from your post is that you mentioned that someone on eBay said it could run Doom 3 at 140FPS. You're not considering buying a used desktop are you? If so, I strongly recommend against it. You never know what kind of wear-and tear it's already gone through.
 
If you're seriously interested in building a PC, I've made a few builds for friends in the past... if you post a budget you have, I could perhaps throw some ideas your way. Also, I'm assuming that you can buy all your stuff online and not at a B&M. A lot of the other topics with suggestions are nice, but not custom tailored to what is on sale RIGHT NOW and where to buy it.
 
To be honest, the price of desktop is so incredibly cheap these days that it seems buying a good desktop and upgrading is better.

Although there is a certain charm for a computer you built yourself though ...
 
[quote name='Capn Stabby']Well the hardest part in building a PC is troubleshooting once something goes wrong. [/QUOTE]

Definitely... I went though hell with my PC because of 2 faulty power supply exchanges (so I never knew it was the PS that was the problem).

Anyway, for a gaming PC, I definitely recommend building it. Vendor gaming PCs are expensive as hell and the use of propitiatory parts makes it a bitch to upgrade... the only time I recommend buying a vendor PC is if you want something really cheap to do basic stuff.
 
[quote name='jonac13']If you're seriously interested in building a PC, I've made a few builds for friends in the past... if you post a budget you have, I could perhaps throw some ideas your way. Also, I'm assuming that you can buy all your stuff online and not at a B&M. A lot of the other topics with suggestions are nice, but not custom tailored to what is on sale RIGHT NOW and where to buy it.[/quote]

I am looking to spend somewhere around $700. I have a case, 500W PSU, 880GT, HDDs, and DVD/DVD burners. I am looking to purchase good motherboard + CPU + RAM to make this all work. What do you think?

I am considering:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188024

And looks like RAM is stupidly cheap right now.
 
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That's the same exact motherboard I was going to link you to, until I refreshed and saw you edited your post with that link. I would personally think that if you were to spend all that money, you might want to consider a quad-core:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115027

Additionally, if you were feeling particularly interested in upgrading, I'd recommend you sell off that 8800GT, get a Crossfire board, and get a 4850. If you decided to do that, the following motherboard is great for that...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813136047

Here is a great deal for the 4850, and with the coupon code VGA7420, you can get an additional $20 off. Hell, if you case has good airflow I'd get two of them.

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121253&CMP=AFC-C8Junction

As for RAM, it is indeed cheap. Really great deal, here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227269
 
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No thanks to the Radeon. Had problems with them in the past, 8800GT is the way to go for me right now.

What serious advantages are there to a quad core right now? Other than OCing, which I would need some aftermarket cooling for?

I am thinking I will be buying these parts soon.
 
You should seriously reconsider your stance on Radeon atm.

Brand loyalty/disloyalty is a silly thing to get involved in.

Right now, the 4800 cards are the best cards for the money.

Also, get the e8400, save yourself a few dollars. The real draw of those processors is the mass overclocking they can do (4ghz is reasonable with decent case airflow and an aftermarket fan).
 
Build a pc for gaming, A brand new Prebuilt Dell/HP etc crap usually will not even play a new game. Biggest part about a Gaming PC is not the Processor or amount of Memory but the Video Card. Depending on OS, 2ghz or better with 2 gigs of ram is all that is needed but you should get Geforce highend 8xxx or better or ATI's newest 48xx series. I haven't been an avid PC gamer for about 2 years, Console Gaming on a 52" 1080p TV called me back, But 3d gaming demands Video Card power, Crysis for example wouldn't hardly run on my 6800 geforce card with some pretty but I have seen Crysis on very low end sempron running well with some pretty because the person was using highend video cards like Ati and Nvidia's lastest offerings. Think of this way for Gaming you buy a Console for 300$ or you buy a Video Card for 300$ or less once teh technology gets older.
 
If all you're looking for is to run Doom 3, you definitely don't need that great a PC to run it well. I ran it on high at like 100fps with a Geforce 7600GS which costs like $60 or something nowadays
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']You should seriously reconsider your stance on Radeon atm.

Brand loyalty/disloyalty is a silly thing to get involved in.

Right now, the 4800 cards are the best cards for the money.
[/quote]

The point is moot, I said I have an 8800GT waiting. No need to buy something else until this is out of date. Don't mean to sound like I don't appreciate the input, but I really just don't want it/ need it. CPU/Mobo/RAM thoughts I am looking into tho.Thank you.
 
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[quote name='cdietschrun']The point is moot, I said I have an 8800GT waiting. No need to buy something else until this is out of date. Don't mean to sound like I don't appreciate the input, but I really just don't want it/ need it. CPU/Mobo/RAM thoughts I am looking into tho.Thank you.[/quote]

Not to sound like a prat, but your card is 'out of date', by many standards. Why go half-assed when you can sell your 8800GT for a pretty penny and upgrade to the far better performing 4850? Again, you don't care, but if you're going to be funneling this much cash into a PC, why not upgrade everything at once.

Now back to stuff you do care about, I already made my Intel/nVidia recommendations. As to why one would choose a quad core over dual core, there are three generally agreed reasons for doing so. The first is futureproofing. As time goes on, more and more programs, including games, will be optimized for quad core setups. Why buy for the past when you can buy for the future? The second reason is multitasking/encoding. Particularly, video encoding is one thing that takes a significantly shorter time with a quad core. The last thing is cache size. The cache on the processor you suggested is 6 mb, while the quad core I suggested has 8 mb of L2 cache. While this might seem incremental, the L2 cache can be shared among all of the cores and see significant performance increases over a smaller cache. Additionally, the increased cache size often allows for less front-side bus (FSB) bottlenecking, so if you ever decided to overclock your CPU, it could have a faster transfer rate with your RAM.

I hope I explained this well in lamen's terms, and even got it all right. Overall, it's generally accepted that quad cores are a worthwhile investment even though you often see higher clock speeds in dual cores.
 
[quote name='mercilessming']Build a pc for gaming, A brand new Prebuilt Dell/HP etc crap usually will not even play a new game. [/QUOTE]

What is up with the hate on prebuilt computers?

I bought a HP Pavilion Elite m9200t series
- HP Pavilion Elite m9200t PC with TV/PVR
- Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
- Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo processor E8400 (3.0GHz)
- FREE UPGRADE to 3GB DDR2-800MHz dual channel SDRAM from 2GB
- 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT, TV-out, DVI-I, HDMI
- No Modem
- FREE UPGRADE! to 750GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive from 500GB
- LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
- 15-in-1 memory card reader, 2 USB, 1394, video, audio
- ATSC-NTSC TV tuner with PVR, FM tuner, remote
- Integrated 7.1 channel sound w/front audio ports
- Norton Internet Security(TM) 2008 - 15 Months
- Microsoft(R) Works 9.0
- HP keyboard and HP optical mouse
Click to expand...
back in April for $819.99 (plus $49.20 tax) and it can take down just about every game I can throw at it (beside Crysis which runs on medium)

May not have been the cheapest thing ever or have the easiest case (my last screwless case spoiled me) but I also didn't have to put it all together like my last computer and the case is much sexier than anything you can buy from Newegg. It should always be possible to upgrade the graphics card in the future if I want to.
 
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[quote name='Sporadic']What is up with the hate on prebuilt computers?

I bought a HP Pavilion Elite m9200t series back in April for $819.99 (plus $49.20 tax) and it can take down just about every game I can throw at it (beside Crysis which runs on medium)

May not have been the cheapest thing ever or have the easiest case (my last screwless case spoiled me) but I also didn't have to put it all together like my last computer and the case is much sexier than anything you can buy from Newegg. It should always be possible to upgrade the graphics card in the future if I want to.[/quote]

Well, personally I think the P180/P182 series cases look better, but that's just me.

As for the hate on prebuilt computers, I think a lot of it stems from people's bad experiences with those companies. There's also that sense of satisfaction you get from building your own PC.

The biggest reason, I suppose, is your complete control of what parts go into your computer. I don't think you get to choose which motherboard you get from most of the big mainstream manufacturers like Dell/HP. Also, a lot of prebuilt computers don't allow for overclocking or have some proprietary parts, although I hear that's phasing out.
 
[quote name='secondnightmare']Hello! I am currently using a crappy Toshiba laptop and I've been content with it mainly since I only own Serious Sam 2 and Diablo 2 but now that I have Doom3 and Resurrection fo Evil, I realize that I need a desktop and a badass one at that.

I am selling my dirtbike to pay for it so money isn't a problem, I just want a PC that will come decked out and be easy to upgrade memory and graphic card-wise in the future when more advanced games come out.

For an already built system, I am looking at an Alienware Aurora desktop PC which starts at $999. That's the standard one. It sounds like a good deal and someone on ebay says his played Doom 3 at 140fps. That works. I'm only worried that it will be hard to impossible to upgrade memory and the graphic cards in the future when more advanced games come out. Any thoughts? Any other systems out there?

I've never built a PC from scratch but I have tinkered with them (like installing extra memory or an internet card) and I'm willing to learn to build one. I just don't wanna get all of the parts and not know what to do with them...

Thanks for your time![/quote]

First off do NOT buy from Alienware. I just checked out their cheapest model and with monitor and speakers it comes to around $1500-$1800.

I do recommend building your own. It will be a lot cheaper in the long run and well you can choose what goes in it. Ok 30 people said that already but lets go over what I just built and the prices...

Processor
Intel Core 2 Quad 2.40 ghz

Memory
2 Gigs Corsair DDR2 800 Mhz

Motherboard
Intel Micro Atx something

Power Supply
Ultra 650 watt

Gfx Card
384 MB Nvidia 8800 GS

Fans
Masscool something

Case
Ultra something

Keyboard and Mouse
Logitech something (I already owned it, $30 at staples)

Speakers
Sicuro 5.1 speakers

Monitor
Asus 24 inch widescreen

Without the speakers, monitor, or keyboard/mouse my total came to a bit over $700. With everything else it is totaling around $1200, but I wanted to go for sexy with the speakers/monitor since I am working a lot of hours, lol.

As for building it, it is very easy. You first put risers into your case, then install the heat sink/cpu to the mobo. Then power supply. Screw mobo into risers (there are holes in the mobo). Then it is just add cable to corresponding position on the motherboard. It is quite easy actually.
 
I have been pm-ing with the OP about a build, and I figured I'd go ahead and just post it up for other peoples' reference if they wanted it so. His budget was $1000, so I decided I'd have a Intel-based motherboard, but with Crossfire support instead of SLI because of the cost effectiveness of the 48xx series, and ATI's apparent revival. This PC will basically run any game you throw at it, at high, if not very high, settings:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor - $209.99


GIGABYTE GA-EP45T-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - $199.38


Thermaltake W0116RU 750W Complies with ATX 12V 2.2 & EPS 12V version Power Supply - $119.99 after $50 mail-in


Antec Three Hundred Black ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $85.94


ASUS EAH4850/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - $164.99 after $30 mail-in


ASUS Black 18X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X 2MB Cache PATA DVD Burner with LightScribe - $33.24


Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $74.99


OCZ SLI-Ready Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $64.99 after $30 mail-in


Total: $953.51
 
If you have a computer that can access the internet while you build your new one, ide build it yourself for sure. I built my first one about 2 months ago and it went almost perfectly smooth untill it started showing 3gb of ram instead of 4. So i hopped on my other computer and found out that the Mother board i had bought had a bad ram socket. Had it RMAed and got the new board later that week.

So i vote that you build it yourself, its not near as hard as it looks.
 
[quote name='jonac13']I have been pm-ing with the OP about a build, and I figured I'd go ahead and just post it up for other peoples' reference if they wanted it so. His budget was $1000, so I decided I'd have a Intel-based motherboard, but with Crossfire support instead of SLI because of the cost effectiveness of the 48xx series, and ATI's apparent revival. This PC will basically run any game you throw at it, at high, if not very high, settings:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor - $209.99


GIGABYTE GA-EP45T-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - $199.38


Thermaltake W0116RU 750W Complies with ATX 12V 2.2 & EPS 12V version Power Supply - $119.99 after $50 mail-in


Antec Three Hundred Black ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $85.94


ASUS EAH4850/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - $164.99 after $30 mail-in


ASUS Black 18X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X 2MB Cache PATA DVD Burner with LightScribe - $33.24


Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $74.99


OCZ SLI-Ready Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $64.99 after $30 mail-in


Total: $953.51[/QUOTE]
2 comments on this build.

First, if you're to go for crossfire, the x48 chipset is the way to go. The p45 is a very good set, but theres no reason to spend that much on the board when an x48 board with full x16 -x16 crossfire support is only 10$ more. The P5Q-E would be a better fit, and its 40$ cheaper.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131296&Tpk=p5q-e

If you do want crossfire support, go with an x48 chipset board. The asus P5E Deluxe is just such a board. This provides x2 x16 PCIe2 slots for "maximum" crossfire.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131317



And for comment number two, do NOT buy the 500gb western digital harddrives (or the seagate 320gb). Both of these drives commonly cause users lots of grief. Random errors such as the drives suddenly being inaccessible, certain folders being unable to open etc. crop up frequently with those drives.

Also, allow me to point you to my thread that has a very nice and fairly similar build for around 780$.
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189217
 
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[quote name='crystalklear64']2 comments on this build.

First, if you're to go for crossfire, the x48 chipset is the way to go. The p45 is a very good set, but theres no reason to spend that much on the board when an x48 board with full x16 -x16 crossfire support is only 10$ more. The P5Q-E would be a better fit, and its 40$ cheaper.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131296&Tpk=p5q-e

If you do want crossfire support, go with an x48 chipset board. The asus P5E Deluxe is just such a board. This provides x2 x16 PCIe2 slots for "maximum" crossfire.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131317



And for comment number two, do NOT buy the 500gb western digital harddrives (or the seagate 320gb). Both of these drives commonly cause users lots of grief. Random errors such as the drives suddenly being inaccessible, certain folders being unable to open etc. crop up frequently with those drives.

Also, allow me to point you to my thread that has a very nice and fairly similar build for around 780$.
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189217[/quote]

You may have a point about the motherboard, but I have one or two gripes about your build. First, the power supply. I would recommend to anyone who gets an SLI or Crossfire enabled motherboard a 750w power supply or greater. I've actually experienced with past builds I recommended to some people system shutdown with power supplies rated at a lower wattage when they finally decide to put in their second video card, because the two cards can run on one power supply rail and pull way too many amps for the PSU to handle. So, I play it safe with 750 and over.

Additionally, I reccomended a quad core processor for a reason, which I mentioned earlier. It just makes more sense to get a quad core at this point, as clock speed isn't all that matters anymore. Hell, with just a little overclocking the quad core can easily break 3 ghz clock speed, even to a newb at the overclocking game.

And the last thing is just personal preference. I've had bad experiences with Cooler Master cases... which is why I reccomend Antec. Antec has never let me down with any of their products, so I personally like to stick with them. While your build has it's merits, your motherboard is indeed a good reccomendation, and you may have a point with the hard drive comment, I would say a mix of our builds will probably breed superiority.

One really last thing... why would you buy 2 gb of RAM when 4 gb is just a Jackson away? Doesn't make any sense to me.
 
While wattage can provide a fairly decent guideline, its the amp rating on the rail or rails that really matters when using a power supply. For less solid brands, that translates into need to step up into the higher watt range, but for psus with a solid amp rating, 600w should be more than enough.

Helpful tool:
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

Quad core again is a gamble as to whether or not it will be supported. With a 3ghz base dual core with the ability to hit 4ghz on air, the e7000 and e8000 cpus are fantastic price/performance processors. With Nehalem coming out fairly shortly, it doesn't make sense to me to spend more money on a quad with the new platform being so close.

As for the RAM, I was looking for 2gb so didn't even think to look at 4gb. At that price, I'd go with the 4gb for sure.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']While wattage can provide a fairly decent guideline, its the amp rating on the rail or rails that really matters when using a power supply. For less solid brands, that translates into need to step up into the higher watt range, but for psus with a solid amp rating, 600w should be more than enough.

Helpful tool:
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

Quad core again is a gamble as to whether or not it will be supported. With a 3ghz base dual core with the ability to hit 4ghz on air, the e7000 and e8000 cpus are fantastic price/performance processors. With Nehalem coming out fairly shortly, it doesn't make sense to me to spend more money on a quad with the new platform being so close.

As for the RAM, I was looking for 2gb so didn't even think to look at 4gb. At that price, I'd go with the 4gb for sure.[/quote]

Yeah, I was aware of the whole wattage not being the only factor thing, as I mentioned the amp rating on the rails. But you do bring a good point, and a lot just sits on personal preference... I may personally be willing to throw a couple of bucks more at a better PSU, just to be safe, but not everyone else is willing.

As for the quad vs dual core, I think it will again be a choice for people to make. While you're right in saying that the Nehalem units are coming out soon, I honestly believe that quad-core support will only become more ubiquitous as time goes on, as the Nehalem processors are very scalable and can have any amount of cores from 2, to 4, to 6, or even to 8. It just seems to me that optimization will be more geared towards the quads, as they already are gaining marketshare and Nehalem will likely further propel it. In reality, it wouldn't be too bad of a decision to wait until Nehalem is in fact released, because while they might be expensive or not as fleshed out in their early months, I'm sure there'll be some price drops in even the processors we both recommended.
 
save your soul and your wallet and build one; seriously for a pc that was 2000 dollars right now at dell you can build for 900

build
JUST BUILD
SERIOUSLY
 
[quote name='halo2attack']save your soul and your wallet and build one; seriously for a pc that was 2000 dollars right now at dell you can build for 900

build
JUST BUILD
SERIOUSLY[/quote]

Yeah, I've decided to build one and jonac13 has been helping me out the past few days on what to buy and where to get it.
 
My advice - never, EVER cheap out on these two things:

PSU
Motherboard

You can cheap out on the others, b/c you can always upgrade them later easily (CPU, cas5 ram hah!, GPU, etc.)

Case is so damn subjective, it demands on noise demands, storage capacity, and looks. Though looks will usually take of themselves if you buy what I would consider tier1 cases...
 
Totally agree about troubleshooting a custom built pc, the ONLY benefit to buying a rig is that you are guarunteed that all the components will play nice in the snabox together.......however, if you are really against building, you can get some amazing deals at Ibuypower.com or cyberpowerpc.com.......a year or two ago you would get much more bang for your buck building it yourself, but now with sites like these, you can get awesome deals for the same as if you did the legwork yourself.......I personally don't like most companies, other than toshiba or HP.......don't like gateway, alienware or most companies
 
I thought I might hijack this thread a little since you are already talking about video cards. I would be better off with the Radeon 4850 over the Geforce 8800GT right? It would be nice to run games at 1900x1200 at a decent framerate.
 
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