Gaming Subtitles should be required by law

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Samuelc79

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I think gaming subtitles should be required by one of gaming laws. I still today feel criticized not lot of games are subtitled for the hearing impaired and deaf.

I was the one who complained about Halo, and eventually Halo 2 came out with it. I'm glad this did work. Grand Theft Auto series had been great with this. True Crimes and several others have done this. Why can't every industry do this? XBox is patchable. I took back the game Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow back because of no subtitles. I thought they might have learned from the first game in the series obviously not.

Like now ESRB is required for every game, I think the next thing should be done is enforcing subtitles for many of us hearing impaired and deaf as well as anyone who depends on subtitles. They should consider putting one option it on the game boxes, for instances on all xbox games, it says XBOX live aware, or Live downloadable, System links. It should have one new option called subtitled. Maybe then companies would know this is important factor to gain audience.

Sorry, I'm just furious that I have Doom 3 Collectors Edition for XBOX. Great to see some things can't be as collectible as it may to other people who brought it. I'm on the verge whether I should take it back to the store or not. Even on the Activision site it had questions for support for the game. Even before I planned to ask questions, obviously many others have asked about it.

All they said that Doom 3 was a legacy to the PC version and have no plans to subtitle it.

I know its a long post, post your thoughts.
 
I think subtitles would be a good addition to games. Although I am not deaf or hard of hearing, sometimes you can't understand what characters are saying. Every game should have the option for subtitles, IMO.
 
I agree. I put on subtitles all the time, no matter what the game is.. sometimes characters are hard to understand. Some of Doom 3's keycodes to boxes are in "audio files", and without captions, it totally kills the game.

So yeah, if you were to start a petition or something, I'd sign it. I definately agree that all games should include subtitles.
 
I was the one who got letter of the month on EGM magazine last summer about this. I did emphasize about Halo, I think this may have gotten some news for them. Obviously I can't express too much into it but the word should spread. I could probably do petitiononline.com or something But i'm not so agressive like I want to be, I'm quite a busy college student.. but with some help or something would be great.
 
[quote name='Samuelc79']I think gaming subtitles should be required by one of gaming laws. I still today feel criticized not lot of games are sutitled for the hearing impaired and deaf.

I was the one who complained about Halo, and eventually Halo 2 came out with it. I'm glad this did work. Grand Theft Auto series had been great with this. True Crimes and several others have done this. Why can't every industry do this? XBox is patchable. I took back the game Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow back because of no subtitles. I thought they might have learned from the first game in the series obviously not.

Like now ESRB is required for every game, I think the next thing should be done is enforcing subtitles for many of us hearing impaired and deaf as well as anyone who depends on subtitles or put it on the dvd box, like how it says XBOX live aware, or live downloads, system links. It should have one new option called subtitled. Maybe then companies would know this is important factor to gain audience.

Sorry, I'm just furious that I have Doom 3 Collectors Edition for XBOX. Great to see some things can't be as collectible as it may to other people who brought it. I'm on the verge whether I should take it back to the store or not. Even on the Activision site it had questions for support for the game. Even before I planned to ask questions, obviously many others have asked about it.

All they said that Doom 3 was a legacy to the PC version and have no plans to subtitle it.

I know its a long post, post your thoughts.[/QUOTE]

It shouldn't be required by law... but it would be nice. It should be toggleable though.
 
It should be required, especially if it is popular games for the public. sorta like how ESRB is required. If they do not want subtitles, then make a game without obvious noise or words. I pay for the game, I pay just about how much everyone of you pay for a game, I should get equal enjoyment like every one of you. People who can hear have more value for their money than those who can't.

Or if they should make cards for deaf gamers where it is 50 percent off every game, how's that philosophy? Thats fair to me, though I do not want that policy.
 
[quote name='Scorch']I agree. I put on subtitles all the time, no matter what the game is.. sometimes characters are hard to understand. Some of Doom 3's keycodes to boxes are in "audio files", and without captions, it totally kills the game.

So yeah, if you were to start a petition or something, I'd sign it. I definately agree that all games should include subtitles.[/QUOTE]
I agree I had trouble hearing them in the PC version and had to play them more than once to understand what it was they were talking about sometimes. They should also be toggelable.
 
I think more games should voluntarily use subtitles. I'm not deaf, but I have had trouble with my hearing lately and it has gotten annoying when I've been playing video games. I know people are talking but I can't understand what they are saying, so subtitling would be nice. I'd probably use it.
 
[quote name='Samuelc79']It should be required, especially if it is popular games for the public. sorta like how ESRB is required. If they do not want subtitles, then make a game without obvious noise or words. I pay for the game, I pay just about how much everyone of you pay for a game, I should get equal enjoyment like every one of you. People who can hear have more value for their money than those who can't.

Or if they should make cards for deaf gamers where it is 50 percent off every game, how's that philosophy? Thats fair to me, though I do not want that policy.[/QUOTE]

Boy, thats some pretty ridiculous stuff right there. I think there should be the option, but to believe you or anyone needs to get equal enjoyment out of something just makes no sense. I think they should require games to be fun.
 
I think that subtitles in games would be a good addition as well. Many times it is very difficult to understand the characters when they talk, due to poor voice acting or just to much background noise, and this can kill a whole game since you don't know either the story, what to do, or how to do it. I tend to put subtitles and nearly all of my games and most of the time on movies just because every person has different accents and some are more difficult to understand than others.
 
The thing is, this isn't a legal concern. No one NEEDS to play video games (many would disagree with me on this point, and I can't believe I'm saying it, but it's true). While I think it's pretty imperative to have ramps for the handicapped in schools and the like, I just don't think that same sort of legislation would translate to video games. I mean, what's next? Special seesaws for legless children?

That being said, I think that there should be some sort of provision for deaf/hearing-impaired gamers. I don't think it should be imposed by any ruling body; I think it should be a self-regulatory thing, like the video-game rating system. Video game publishers should hold themselves to their own standards of accessibility.
 
I'm on board for games requiring subtitles. Like alot of people mentioned, sometimes its difficult to understand what the characters are saying. I can't imagine that this would be that hard to implement.
 
I'm actually shocked to hear there are games with spoken dialog that DON'T have subtitles... of course at the same time I'm suprised to hear Doom 3 has a story.


I'm more annoyined by fighting games with characters that speak in another language and choose not to have a subtitle for what they're saying, like if I wanted to be clueless about what characters were saying I'd import.
 
subtitles are just as important in video games as an option as they are in movies or television as an option
i dont think people are against them, and i am sure as the industry ages, more games wil be subtitled until it gets to the point where people wonder why a rare game doesnt have subtitles
 
[quote name='vherub']subtitles are just as important in video games as an option as they are in movies or television as an option
i dont think people are against them, and i am sure as the industry ages, more games wil be subtitled until it gets to the point where people wonder why a rare game doesnt have subtitles[/QUOTE]I agree, I think it's terrible that they'll even go to the point where Japanese games with voice acting will dubbed, with no option for the original language with English subtitles. You'd think that's less money and trouble to add the subtitles in than to record with a new cast!

Worst recent examples: Onimusha 3 (I would have bought that game just for Jean Reno's performance in the native Japanese) and Siren.
 
[quote name='Rig']I think subtitles would be a good addition to games. Although I am not deaf or hard of hearing, sometimes you can't understand what characters are saying. Every game should have the option for subtitles, IMO.[/QUOTE]
I agree...my hearing is fine, but I enjoy reading the captioning as well, and for games with a lot of dialogue it helps with a lot of, "Huh? What'd he say?" Unlike DVD and video, you can't rewind a most in-game cut-scenes.
 
Hoping for legislation on this is, of course, absurd. As long as we're wishing, though, subtitles are a good place to start. Because I know how much you all value my opinion, I shall list a few things which, were I God-Emperor, a failure to implement would be punishable by death.

First, yes, subtitles. Inseperable from this is, of course, seperate volume controls. Most voice acting sucks, and most sound effects are annoying. If I'm playing an action game I really, really don't want to hear my character grunt every time I attack. I certainly don't want to listen to your nephew and that bum outside your office recite your shitty dialogue.

Second, cut-scenes. These suck and you shouldn't use them, but I recognize that they're not going away anytime soon. I expect you to recognize, however, that anything which takes control away from the player, in a game, is retarded. So if you're going to have cut-scenes, there are a few things you need to do about them. First, it must be possible to pause the game at any time. Second, it must be possible to skip any sequence during which the player has no input. It does not matter whether or not they have already beaten the game, let them skip it if they want to. Finally, make a theater option available such that once the player has passed a cut-scene, they may review it at their leisure.

Finally, saving. Remember that pause screen that is always available? Make sure it contains a save option of some sort. It's ok if it puts the player back wherever the last location you think is appropriate for a save spot was, but it has to be there.

Doorbells ring, cats vomit, food finishes baking, things happen, and your voice acting sucks. Do not make your game annoying. Do not make the player block out three hours in which they are guaranteed to be free of interruptions from the outside world.

K, I'm done. Sorry about the divergence from the original topic. Carry on.
 
It be lame to have subs druning a fighting game for every "GET OVER HERE" ect. I disagree with making it manditory. As far as I know the ESRB was created volantary from video game companys and it is NOT goverment required.
 
[quote name='WhipSmartBanky']I agree...my hearing is fine, but I enjoy reading the captioning as well, and for games with a lot of dialogue it helps with a lot of, "Huh? What'd he say?" Unlike DVD and video, you can't rewind a most in-game cut-scenes.[/QUOTE]

Damn straight! I find myself rewinding DVDs more and more with every passing year (sigh), subtitles, just like on DVDs, should be a standard feature (though some of the TV show DVDs don't have subtitles -for example, the Band of Brothers box set doesn't have subtitles for the episodes, so my TV took care of it, but still, would've been nice for HBO to have added it.

Hey, has anyone notices how CC's don't always type out EXACTLY what the person is saying -this seems to happen a lot on DVDs, and live television is a freakin' mess!

On top of that, sometimes I want to stay up late and watch a movie or play a game and I needs my subtitles!
 
Blustrk98, some television have bad CC decoders.. I know what u mean, I have seen those tv where it just doent work well and when it comes to Live TV it does make a huge mess. I am assuming it is your television that is doing it. Lot of dvds I have been great with CC whatsoever. You can probably bring to ur friends house on a different television to see if this is the problem.
 
Personally, I think there shoud be a law requiring voiceovers for the blind population too. All those nintendo games with no voiceovers leaves blind gameplayers with no backstory...
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Personally, I think there shoud be a law requiring voiceovers for the blind population too. All those nintendo games with no voiceovers leaves blind gameplayers with no backstory...[/QUOTE]

Haha, i was waiting for someone to say something like that.

Making a lack of subtitles a crime is ridiculous. As an option im all for it.
 
i guess i'm missing this, but if someone could post a link to what the op said about ESRB ratings requried. becuase unless something new has occured, it's just the general fact that game companies have no choice to pass esrb ratings, most stores will only stock esrb rated games. and it's expected to see these ratings. again, unless there is something recent that i've missed, if someone would post a link to a story about that, thank you,

as for subtitles. the audiofiles in Doom3 suck, for the keycodes, hints ect.. other games like tomb raider i wanted to literaly kill the game, i actually stopped playing them, you'd have to walk up to the screen to hear them talking and than the second something feel,someone walked. it was soo loud, it was the most uneven sound ever. that game needed subtitles sooo badly, (i played cronicles and the last revaltion) it should be a common coutsey of those making the game. for grand theft auto, they simply show you the script on screen, that's about all it would take, showing what was written down when someone did the voice over. for story line, they should be there, for critical things, keycodes, instructions for a boss in platformers, instructions for new equipment, it should all be text.
 
I'm a big adventure gamer (as you can probably see), so I'm used to subtitles being in almost every game in the genre. I agree that most other games should have the option to see subtitles. I'm not deaf or hard of hearing, but for some reason I like to read along with what is being said; and yes sometimes it is hard to understand what the characters are saying and you could miss important information.
 
[quote name='Blustrk98']Damn straight! I find myself rewinding DVDs more and more with every passing year (sigh), subtitles, just like on DVDs, should be a standard feature (though some of the TV show DVDs don't have subtitles -for example, the Band of Brothers box set doesn't have subtitles for the episodes, so my TV took care of it, but still, would've been nice for HBO to have added it.

Hey, has anyone notices how CC's don't always type out EXACTLY what the person is saying -this seems to happen a lot on DVDs, and live television is a freakin' mess!

On top of that, sometimes I want to stay up late and watch a movie or play a game and I needs my subtitles![/QUOTE]
I think closed captioning is not the same as subtitles. They dont write everthing out. Only like the important stuff. It's not word for word.
 
well actually its the ohter way around. Closed Captions are more accurate than subtitles on dvds. If i had to chooce captions or subtitles on any dvd, ill choose captions over subtitles. I have several dvds where subtitles are a little off or abreviated a bit if you choose captions, its more accurate.
 
[quote name='Samuelc79']well actually its the ohter way around. Closed Captions are more accurate than subtitles on dvds. If i had to chooce captions or subtitles on any dvd, ill choose captions over subtitles. I have several dvds where subtitles are a little off or abreviated a bit if you choose captions, its more accurate.[/QUOTE]

That can depend a great deal on the material involved. CC on broadcast TV tends to be lousy largely due to budgetary reasons. A few companies get themselve cheap PR by sponsoring CC work but the money isn't adequate for the sheer volume of TV being produced on a weekly basis. Live shows add a burden of immediate comprehension and rapid typing necessary to keep up. Some shows known for rapid dialogue exchanges can be a big problem to reproduce in text without having it zip by too fast for much of the audience. (The first time I encountered 'Gilmore Girls' was when my mother and sister were watching it. The dialogue pacing and style caught my ear. I did some looking on IMDB and sure enough, it had writers previously known for 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' work.)

Anime DVDs can have major differences in subtitles and spoken English dub because the subtitles are often a direct translation of the original Japanese dialogue. The English dub is often adjusted to make the use of idiom and other issues more accessable for the native English speakers. (Some things are completely lost, like the plethora of puns in Rumiko series that have no ready means of translating to English without just stopping everything to explain why this is funny in Japanese.) One example is in the Tenchi Muyo box set. The English subtitles are the same for all audio tracks, so having the subtitles turned on with the English dub can produce some major divergences.
 
I am steadfastly against inviting legal intervention in a matter best left to the marketplace. If a game developer comes to appreciate that they are losing an audience segment due to a lack of a feature or poor design that should be more of a motivator than than laws that require use of tax payer funds to enforce.

More can be achieved by creating a web site that rates games by their accessability to players with different disabilities. Receiving a poor rating for non-aesthetic issues in a game that should otherwise be well regarded gets the attention of marketing folks, especially if you can get a major review aggregator like GameRankings to include your input.

There may already be a site that does this. I have an acquaintance I haven't spoken to in a long time, who had limited use of his left hand due to severe arthritis. Games that could be played one-handed using the ASCII RPG controller were always something he was alway intent on finding. Whenever I'd find the ASCII controllers being blown out for cheap I'd get him some to assure he'd have an ongoing supply. A lot of newer games require the use of analog but there hasn't been a newer version of the ASCII to use with those. I found them useful myself for long periods of leveling up in RPGs because it would leave a hand free for holding a book or magazine.
 
I don't think this should be a law but I will say that subtitles are great when you're playing late at night and don't want to wake anyone up.
 
Subtitles in tv/movies generally show just the dialog.
Captions sometimes 'rephrase' the dialog, and include audio cues [like "Sound of car starting".] Check out Sesame Street on captions sometimes, I was sorely disappointed in how far off they were.
Anyway, I don't know if I think it should be a "law" [then again, the government has got its nose into a lot of places it shouldn't, so this wouldn't be a big stretch] but I do think the gaming industry should at least voluntarily include subtitles as an option for all 'plot' scenes [not necessarily the "Ouch" type in-game dialog, but during the cutscenes etc.]
Games have gone so far into the 'movie' and voiceacting realm.
It wasn't as big a deal in the past; there was no VA for RPGs, and a lot of other games didn't really have a text or dialog based story anyway.
Adding insult to injury is when there are no subtitles, and the volume level between the Game and the Cutscenes vary widely. When I played Hunter the Reckoning on PS2, if I had the game up loud enough to hear, but not loud enough to be obnoxious, I couldn't hear the cutscene dialog at all.
And, of course, it could help provide a little 'benefit' to gaming--sure, kids are playing GTA and capping ho's, but at least they can read the cutscenes!
 
Am I the only person that doesn't really get the point of braille in public places?

In my appartment building, every sign has braille on it. I can understand the point, but how is a blind person going to know there is a sign there to begin with? I have never seen a blind person walking down a hallway groping every in of the wall. Also... this is an appartment building. You either live here, or know someone who does. If you live here, you probably already know where you're going. If you know someone here, they probably know you're blind and hence, mostlikely would not only guide them to the right apartment, but would also bring them to the building.
 
Welcome to government intervention, where they force people to do the 'right' thing, even if it doesn't make any sense.
I recall hearing about something a while back in California, where a private homeowner was doing some remodeling of his house. For some reason, he *had to* provide a ramp for disabled access, even though it was his private home and he didn't know anybody who was disabled and needed the ramp.
 
I'm all for captioning. It pisses everybody off when I do it, but I ALWAYS have the captions on my T.V. because I hate missing what people might say and you'll even occaisionally see something someone without them wouldn't hear (such as a man in a movie shouting something in the background you normally wouldn't hear. I really noticed this during Gladiator the movie.). I absolutely love captions. I really like it during games too, but most of my friends hate when I have them on.
 
[quote name='Kayden']Am I the only person that doesn't really get the point of braille in public places?

In my appartment building, every sign has braille on it. I can understand the point, but how is a blind person going to know there is a sign there to begin with? I have never seen a blind person walking down a hallway groping every in of the wall. Also... this is an appartment building. You either live here, or know someone who does. If you live here, you probably already know where you're going. If you know someone here, they probably know you're blind and hence, mostlikely would not only guide them to the right apartment, but would also bring them to the building.[/QUOTE]

You... have a point...
 
I'm not deaf and I don't know anyone who is. This being said, gaming is a maturing industry It's reaching out to more and more people. I don't think it's right to exclude people from being able to play games. Think about it, if I went deaf tomorrow, I would still want to play games, I would hate not to be able to follow the story.

I'm not sure about making a law. That being said, the ESRB ought to crack down on games that do not make subtitles an option (obviously, they should be able to be turned off). But, we need to look out for fellow gamers, and this would not be that hard for large companies to put in. Games without big budgets who can't afford this probably don't have games with intricate plots that it would matter anyway.

This is a good issue for the game industry to step up on.
 
I'm not deaf either, but I usually have captions or subs on. I like to read, i sometimes miss dialog, my boy gets exposed to words even when he's watching tv, some programs/dvds/games are unevenly leveled, and it's handy when multitasking [chatting on the phone or talking to/being talked at by the wife].
Plus, it's funny sometimes--for some reason, the captions vary from the spoken dialog sometimes. I recall a couple Simpsons episodes where the captioned joke was funnier than the dialog joke. And like FalseHope said, sometimes there's 'background noise or voices' that you wouldn't get just from listening.
 
[quote name='dtcarson']Welcome to government intervention, where they force people to do the 'right' thing, even if it doesn't make any sense.
I recall hearing about something a while back in California, where a private homeowner was doing some remodeling of his house. For some reason, he *had to* provide a ramp for disabled access, even though it was his private home and he didn't know anybody who was disabled and needed the ramp.[/QUOTE]

Link? This sounds highly unlikely. The ADA doesn't apply to private homes.
 
Slightly incorrect-he wasn't forced to do it, it was under consideration.

"The Santa Monica City Council is now considering legislation to increase "visitability" to private homes! What is "visitability"? Why, it's the ability for a disabled person to visit friends. And many friends of the disabled live in homes lacking handicap accessibility. So, what to do? Have the handicapped visitor bring a portable ramp when visiting friends? No. Ask that friends install a ramp for the handicapped visitor? No. Have the handicapped visitor call ahead to arrange assistance? No."

"The measure under consideration requires at least one handicapped accessible ground-level entrance, 36-inch wide hallways and at least one bathroom with a 32-inch wide doorway. This applies to all new Santa Monica homes, as well as those undergoing extensive renovation"

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/peoples.htm

"On September 1, 2003 the city of Chicago Illinois joined the roster of communities aiming to increase accessibility in private homes."
http://www.toolbase.org/tertiaryT.asp?DocumentID=4046&CategoryID=1913
 
[quote name='dtcarson']Slightly incorrect-he wasn't forced to do it, it was under consideration.

"The Santa Monica City Council is now considering legislation to increase "visitability" to private homes! What is "visitability"? Why, it's the ability for a disabled person to visit friends. And many friends of the disabled live in homes lacking handicap accessibility. So, what to do? Have the handicapped visitor bring a portable ramp when visiting friends? No. Ask that friends install a ramp for the handicapped visitor? No. Have the handicapped visitor call ahead to arrange assistance? No."

"The measure under consideration requires at least one handicapped accessible ground-level entrance, 36-inch wide hallways and at least one bathroom with a 32-inch wide doorway. This applies to all new Santa Monica homes, as well as those undergoing extensive renovation"

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/peoples.htm

"On September 1, 2003 the city of Chicago Illinois joined the roster of communities aiming to increase accessibility in private homes."
http://www.toolbase.org/tertiaryT.asp?DocumentID=4046&CategoryID=1913[/QUOTE]

The Santa Monica silliness was largely at the behest of a single wheelchair bound activist who wanted the whole world remade to accommodate him. He did a segment on the 'The John and Ken Show' of KFI 640 AM that made it clear he was an utterly whiny jerk and got John worked up into one of his notorious rages. It was so great they've used it for ads ever since.
 
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