George Bush not only hates black people, but the environment as well

Ikohn4ever

CAGiversary!
Feedback
5 (100%)
Controversy erupts over Endangered Species Act


From the day it became law 34 years ago, the federal Endangered Species Act has been politically hot – a flash point of contention between defenders of nature and advocates of economic progress. Now, the ESA is embroiled in new controversy.


Two different government entities are investigating decisions by Bush administration officials related to species recovery. In one, the US Interior Department is reviewing the scientific integrity of decisions under the law made by a political appointee, who recently resigned under fire. At the same time, Congress is investigating evidence that Vice President Dick Cheney interfered with decisions involving water in California and Oregon that resulted in the killing of tens of thousands of Klamath River salmon, some of which were listed as "threatened" species.

Both episodes illustrate what critics say is the Bush administration's resistance to the law.

During President Bush's time in the White House, the listing of endangered and threatened species has slowed down considerably. It's a fraction of the number his father made in four years (58 new listings compared with 231 by the senior Bush), and most of those were court-ordered.

New funding for protection of such species has been cut as well. As a result, 278 "candidate species" are waiting to join the list of 1,352 plant and animal species now listed as "endangered" or "threatened."

Scientists and activists see the ESA as the last chance for preventing extinction of dwindling plants and animals ranging from the obscure – the rock gnome lichen, for example – to the grizzly bear and other "charismatic megafauna."

But to developers, it can be a very costly impediment to business. And to farmers, ranchers, loggers, and others whose work is land-based, it can threaten a traditional way of life. Many fights over species protection have ended up in federal court.

But it is the political pressure on government scientists that is the current focus.

Following a critical report by the inspector general of the Interior Department in March, Julie MacDonald – the official in charge of fish and wildlife, including those listed under the ESA – resigned.

Fish and Wildlife Service employees complained that Ms. MacDonald had "bullied, insulted, and harassed the professional staff … to change documents and alter biological reporting," according to the report.

"We confirmed that MacDonald has been heavily involved with editing, commenting on, and reshaping the endangered species program's scientific reports from the field," the inspector general wrote, also noting that "she has no formal educational background in natural sciences, such as biology."

The Interior Department inspector general also found that MacDonald had "disclosed nonpublic information to private sector sources" – special interests that had a financial stake in species listing and protection – including the California Farm Bureau Federation and the Pacific Legal Foundation, a public interest law firm that specializes in property rights advocacy and litigation.


Government officials moved quickly to fix the political damage.

Last week, the director of the US Fish and Wildlife Service (the Interior Department agency in charge of endangered species programs) announced that eight decisions MacDonald had made under the ESA would be examined for scientific and legal discrepancies.

In a phone conference with reporters, Fish and Wildlife Service director H. Dale Hall called the episode "a blemish … on the scientific integrity" of the agency. "When I became director, I made scientific integrity my highest priority, and these reviews underscore our commitment to species conservation," Mr. Hall said.

Critics welcomed the action. But they want the internal review to include many more of some 200 species decisions that MacDonald had a hand in, such as those for the marbled murrelet (a shore bird), the bull trout, and the controversial northern spotted owl. Also, they say, the problem goes deeper.

"The real culprit here is not a renegade political appointee," says Francesca Grifo, director of the Union of Concerned Scientists' (UCS) scientific integrity program. "The real culprit is a process where decisions are made behind closed doors."

In 2005, UCS surveyed about 450 Fish and Wildlife Service scientists. Two-thirds said they knew of cases where Interior Department political appointees had interfered with scientific reports and decisions, and 84 said they had been ordered to remove or change technical information from scientific documents.

Political pressure is alleged to have taken place during a summer drought in 2002 when Klamath River water was allowed to irrigate farmers' fields rather than provide adequate passage for salmon headed upstream to spawn as government scientists had recommended.

As reported in detail recently by The Washington Post, Vice President Cheney intervened in decisions involving a 10-year water plan for the Klamath River basin, siding with farmers and ranchers over environmental considerations. Courts later termed that plan "arbitrary and capricious and in violation of the Endangered Species Act."

As a result of the low water flows that summer, which make the water warmer and the fish more prone to disease, some 70,000 salmon died. Since then, fish runs have remained low, causing economic hardship for Indian tribes as well as commercial and sport-fishing businesses along the West Coast.


The House Natural Resources Committee has scheduled a hearing next week to investigate "political influence … on agency science and decisionmaking." Cheney has been invited to testify, but he is not expected to attend the hearing.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070725/ts_csm/aspecies;_ylt=AvbSWbi5H8OUw1DnJUXwwyx4hMgF


I doubt anything will come of this, besides certain animals and plants being closer to the point of extinction. I am just sick of this business first everything else last attitude of this administration.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']I doubt anything will come of this, besides certain animals and plants being closer to the point of extinction. I am just sick of this business first everything else last attitude of this administration.[/quote]

Actually it's cronies first, everything else last.
 
unless black people are an endangered species i dont know why their in the title, other than a tired, bad joke.

and as for the article, it says the salmon suffered because the water was allowed for use in california farms. as a resident of california, im going to have to side with the farmers on this one. weve been in a drought the last years we need all the water we get to sustain our massive agriculture in our state.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']
and as for the article, it says the salmon suffered because the water was allowed for use in california farms. as a resident of california, im going to have to side with the farmers on this one. weve been in a drought the last years we need all the water we get to sustain our massive agriculture in our state.[/quote]

Perhaps, but that's not really the point. The point is Cheney and the administration intervened and pressured people into doing something that shouldn't have been done. You know damn well that they didn't do it because they feel bad for the farmers in California. They put their own interests ahead of everyone else's. Not that they give a fuck, though. All the R's are gonna get raptured or some such shit so why give a fuck about some stupid plants and animals.
 
[quote name='dragonreborn23']Perhaps, but that's not really the point. The point is Cheney and the administration intervened and pressured people into doing something that shouldn't have been done. You know damn well that they didn't do it because they feel bad for the farmers in California. They put their own interests ahead of everyone else's. Not that they give a fuck, though. All the R's are gonna get raptured or some such shit so why give a fuck about some stupid plants and animals.[/quote]

They didn't do it for farmers? Did they do it to get back at the salmon?
 
I'm sure Bush is readying a claim of executive privilege as we post or "those salmon had ties to Al-queda"
 
[quote name='usickenme']I'm sure Bush is readying a claim of executive privilege as we post or "those salmon had ties to Al-queda"[/quote]

ROFLMAO!
 
[quote name='usickenme']I'm sure Bush is readying a claim of executive privilege as we post or "those salmon had ties to Al-queda"[/quote]

I could really go for some al-queda con queso right now... :p
 
I still have yet to find anyone who will admit they voted for Bush. It's like the Spice Girls, they sold millions of records, but no one you or I knew owned one. This may require a separate topic.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']I still have yet to find anyone who will admit they voted for Bush. It's like the Spice Girls, they sold millions of records, but no one you or I knew owned one. This may require a separate topic.[/QUOTE]

Hi.

Lesser of two evils, at the time. I've already spit my hatred of people like John Edwards, and John F. Kerry didn't sit right with me. Still doesn't. In fact, I'll state I think so little of the man I think he would have been worse than what we have now.

Now Gore, I had a specific reason why Bush won me over: over-protection of wilderness areas, and the inability if he was elected to even go and visit these places. As someone who loves the outdoors and being a member of Tread Lightly, that one issue alone was enough for me to vote the other way.

Do I regret it? Not really. I can't see how the country would have been much better off, we'd have the same amount of scandals and stupid decisions, just in different directions and on different things.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']I still have yet to find anyone who will admit they voted for Bush. It's like the Spice Girls, they sold millions of records, but no one you or I knew owned one. This may require a separate topic.[/quote]

I voted for Bush the first time.

In my defense I was young, stupid, brainwashed, and believed that Republicans meant small govt and more individual freedom / states rights.

It's not fun to admit - esp when I now realize Gore would have been an awesome President.

EDIT: At least I never bought a Spice Girls record
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Hi.I can't see how the country would have been much better off, we'd have the same amount of scandals and stupid decisions, just in different directions and on different things.[/QUOTE]

You think Gore would have invaded Iraq or a different country?

If you seriously W Bush et al are merely business as usual well I do not know what to tell you.
 
Why worry about the environment when the Bible says that A) God gave this world to use as we please and B) the rapture is coming?
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']Controversy erupts over Endangered Species Act


From the day it became law 34 years ago, the federal Endangered Species Act has been politically hot – a flash point of contention between defenders of nature and advocates of economic progress. Now, the ESA is embroiled in new controversy.


Two different government entities are investigating decisions by Bush administration officials related to species recovery. In one, the US Interior Department is reviewing the scientific integrity of decisions under the law made by a political appointee, who recently resigned under fire. At the same time, Congress is investigating evidence that Vice President Dick Cheney interfered with decisions involving water in California and Oregon that resulted in the killing of tens of thousands of Klamath River salmon, some of which were listed as "threatened" species.

Both episodes illustrate what critics say is the Bush administration's resistance to the law.

During President Bush's time in the White House, the listing of endangered and threatened species has slowed down considerably. It's a fraction of the number his father made in four years (58 new listings compared with 231 by the senior Bush), and most of those were court-ordered.

New funding for protection of such species has been cut as well. As a result, 278 "candidate species" are waiting to join the list of 1,352 plant and animal species now listed as "endangered" or "threatened."

Scientists and activists see the ESA as the last chance for preventing extinction of dwindling plants and animals ranging from the obscure – the rock gnome lichen, for example – to the grizzly bear and other "charismatic megafauna."

But to developers, it can be a very costly impediment to business. And to farmers, ranchers, loggers, and others whose work is land-based, it can threaten a traditional way of life. Many fights over species protection have ended up in federal court.

But it is the political pressure on government scientists that is the current focus.

Following a critical report by the inspector general of the Interior Department in March, Julie MacDonald – the official in charge of fish and wildlife, including those listed under the ESA – resigned.

Fish and Wildlife Service employees complained that Ms. MacDonald had "bullied, insulted, and harassed the professional staff … to change documents and alter biological reporting," according to the report.

"We confirmed that MacDonald has been heavily involved with editing, commenting on, and reshaping the endangered species program's scientific reports from the field," the inspector general wrote, also noting that "she has no formal educational background in natural sciences, such as biology."

The Interior Department inspector general also found that MacDonald had "disclosed nonpublic information to private sector sources" – special interests that had a financial stake in species listing and protection – including the California Farm Bureau Federation and the Pacific Legal Foundation, a public interest law firm that specializes in property rights advocacy and litigation.


Government officials moved quickly to fix the political damage.

Last week, the director of the US Fish and Wildlife Service (the Interior Department agency in charge of endangered species programs) announced that eight decisions MacDonald had made under the ESA would be examined for scientific and legal discrepancies.

In a phone conference with reporters, Fish and Wildlife Service director H. Dale Hall called the episode "a blemish … on the scientific integrity" of the agency. "When I became director, I made scientific integrity my highest priority, and these reviews underscore our commitment to species conservation," Mr. Hall said.

Critics welcomed the action. But they want the internal review to include many more of some 200 species decisions that MacDonald had a hand in, such as those for the marbled murrelet (a shore bird), the bull trout, and the controversial northern spotted owl. Also, they say, the problem goes deeper.

"The real culprit here is not a renegade political appointee," says Francesca Grifo, director of the Union of Concerned Scientists' (UCS) scientific integrity program. "The real culprit is a process where decisions are made behind closed doors."

In 2005, UCS surveyed about 450 Fish and Wildlife Service scientists. Two-thirds said they knew of cases where Interior Department political appointees had interfered with scientific reports and decisions, and 84 said they had been ordered to remove or change technical information from scientific documents.

Political pressure is alleged to have taken place during a summer drought in 2002 when Klamath River water was allowed to irrigate farmers' fields rather than provide adequate passage for salmon headed upstream to spawn as government scientists had recommended.

As reported in detail recently by The Washington Post, Vice President Cheney intervened in decisions involving a 10-year water plan for the Klamath River basin, siding with farmers and ranchers over environmental considerations. Courts later termed that plan "arbitrary and capricious and in violation of the Endangered Species Act."

As a result of the low water flows that summer, which make the water warmer and the fish more prone to disease, some 70,000 salmon died. Since then, fish runs have remained low, causing economic hardship for Indian tribes as well as commercial and sport-fishing businesses along the West Coast.


The House Natural Resources Committee has scheduled a hearing next week to investigate "political influence … on agency science and decisionmaking." Cheney has been invited to testify, but he is not expected to attend the hearing.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070725/ts_csm/aspecies;_ylt=AvbSWbi5H8OUw1DnJUXwwyx4hMgF


I doubt anything will come of this, besides certain animals and plants being closer to the point of extinction. I am just sick of this business first everything else last attitude of this administration.[/QUOTE]

It's easy to have numbers that say Bush 43 has listed far less species than 41 did (in less time), but why? What are the other factors involved in this? I'd like to know the effects the Clinton Administration had on endangered species when they made massive increases to the amount of land under protection. For instance, what effect did the programs and lands they put in place have on the bald eagle coming off protection?
 
Cochese, for anyone to criticize W in your mind they have to fire up the way back machine and find something/anything on Clinton first?
 
[quote name='Msut77']Cochese, for anyone to criticize W in your mind they have to fire up the way back machine and find something/anything on Clinton first?[/QUOTE]

I'd like to know the positive effects in what the previous administration did with the conservation efforts.

God forbid I find out the facts, or even *GASP* praise something Bill Clinton did?


OMG Its a conspracee!!!11
 
[quote name='Cheese']Why worry about the environment when the Bible says that A) God gave this world to use as we please and B) the rapture is coming?[/quote]

russia is building irans nuclear plant...

1 Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh (Russia),[a] Meshech (Georgia/Russia), and Tubal(Georgia/Russia), and prophesy against him, 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. 5 Persia(Iran), Ethiopia,[b] and Libya[c] are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops—many people are with you.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']I'd like to know the positive effects in what the previous administration did with the conservation efforts.

God forbid I find out the facts, or even *GASP* praise something Bill Clinton did?

[/QUOTE]

It is telling you only want to find "facts" on Clinton and not Bush 1.

Besides you didn't answer the question.
 
[quote name='usickenme']It is telling you only want to find "facts" on Clinton and not Bush 1.

Besides you didn't answer the question.[/QUOTE]

Destruction of habitats don't just happen over the course of a few years. I don't have any facts, but I'd hazard a guess that the policies set forth during the Reagan and Clinton adminstrations had a lot to do with the number of animals that were in danger, and it goes back even further than that.

For those of you who are too blinded by party and ideological ties to understand that, I'll break it down:

During Reagan, more habitats were destroyed.
During Clinton, more habitats were saved.

But because I'm not ultra liberal, I'm sure one or two of you will view that as an attack on Clinton. HW (well, his administration) probably had a more astute view of how to protect wildlife, but I think everyone knew that already.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Destruction of habitats don't just happen over the course of a few years.[/QUOTE]

It has been what 7 years now?

I would say that is more than enough to have an impact on whatever hypothetical you wish.
 
[quote name='deathweasel']It means he's already stated how much he hates people like John Edwards.[/QUOTE]

I gathered that, what does people like John Edwards mean?
 
[quote name='Msut77']I gathered that, what does people like John Edwards mean?[/QUOTE]

Hypocrites? Ambulance chasers? Vain people? Democrats? Help me out here, Cochese! ;)
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Hypocrites? Ambulance chasers? Vain people? Democrats? Help me out here, Cochese! ;)[/QUOTE]

The first two. I have zero respect for ambulance chasers, but that doesn't make me like the man any less than someone like Ken Nugent.

I also despise him standing around posing with Katrina victims saying we need to help the lower class, and saying 'I'm just like you'. You know, except for the fact he lives in this mansion. That doesn't make me like the man any less than any other politician that does the same thing.

Combine the two with that plastic fantastic smile of his? There you go.
 
[quote name='deathweasel']I don't want to speak for someone else, so I'll let him answer that for you.[/QUOTE]


Ignore.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']The first two. I have zero respect for ambulance chasers, but that doesn't make me like the man any less than someone like Ken Nugent.

I also despise him standing around posing with Katrina victims saying we need to help the lower class, and saying 'I'm just like you'. You know, except for the fact he lives in this mansion. That doesn't make me like the man any less than any other politician that does the same thing.

Combine the two with that plastic fantastic smile of his? There you go.[/QUOTE]

So you hate people who smile?

That is it?

P.s. There is nothing wrong nor hypocritical about helping out the lower class whether you are middle class or upper etc.
 
[quote name='Msut77']P.s. There is nothing wrong nor hypocritical about helping out the lower class whether you are middle class or upper etc.[/QUOTE]

Not to butt in, but saying in the debate the other night about how we are constrained by the "genetic lottery" while at the same time being in fact a person who grew up in poverty but worked his way to being rich is pretty damn hypocritical if you ask me. "The American Dream is dead! Long live the American Dream!"
 
Sure, if you've never paid any attention to Edward's pitch it would appear "damn hypocritical".

HOWEVER.....

His point all along has been the opportunities that he was able to take advantage of years ago simply don't exist for today's lower classes.

I guess it is easier to assume than do a modicum of research.
 
[quote name='usickenme']Sure, if you've never paid any attention to Edward's pitch it would appear "damn hypocritical".

HOWEVER.....

His point all along has been the opportunities that he was able to take advantage of years ago simply don't exist for today's lower classes.

I guess it is easier to assume than do a modicum of research.[/QUOTE]

Give me a break. There are so many other ways to define him as hypocritical even if you don't accept that one.
 
bread's done
Back
Top