Georgia vs. Russia

[quote name='thrustbucket']The Ossetian's voted recently to have their province become part of Russia. They all love russia and 99% of them voted for it. Russia has also given them all Russian passports a while ago. The Ossetian's have an extremist group that is hostile towards Georgia (even though they reside within Georgian borders currently).[/quote]

The Ossetians must be nuts.
 
[quote name='kainzero']wtf is the US doing?

they shouldn't even be involved in this and i don't see how this any different from the US invading iraq.[/quote]

Iraq has oil.
This stupid region no one can find on a map has oil.
Every war now until the end of man will be about oil.
 
[quote name='bigdaddy']Iraq has oil.
This stupid region no one can find on a map has oil.
Every war now until the end of man will be about oil.[/quote]

Nah, oil will eventually subside as the underlying reason for war, wars in the future will be about water.
 
[quote name='camoor']Nah, oil will eventually subside as the underlying reason for war, wars in the future will be about water.[/QUOTE]

I'm not so sure about that. Cheap desalination is right around the corner, I believe.
 
[quote name='camoor']Nah, oil will eventually subside as the underlying reason for war, wars in the future will be about water.[/quote]


Nah I figure we will kill ourselves over oil before we have water wars.
 
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[quote name='thrustbucket']

On a personal note, all the former Soviet satellite countries are on edge now. They see this as Russia pushing the boundaries of what they can get away with, and now that they've seen nothing will be done when they want to flex their muscles, they fear they will continue this type of behavior with hit's border countries.[/QUOTE]


As they should be. Putin has all the cards and we can't do anything about it except talk to the press and pass resolutions.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']As they should be. Putin has all the cards and we can't do anything about it except talk to the press and pass resolutions.[/quote]

We can always do something stupid. Never count Bush out.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I'm not so sure about that. Cheap desalination is right around the corner, I believe.[/quote]

[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Even the worst water can be boiled and made potable.

Just add fire and a little tubing.[/quote]

The cheap desalination could become a reality - but the potable part is the part that I'm not so sure about.

Irrigation (and to a degree even simple city/suburbia use) is a little more challenging then "adding a little tubing" - when you're talking about waterways and an increasing need for water, there are a few questions that come to mind:

Does that much water exist upstream? Do the people upstream like you? Can you pump that much in from downstream/under-the-ground sources? Does drawing from non-traditional sources affect anyone else's fortunes?
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']We can always do something stupid. Never count Bush out.[/QUOTE]

Bush is pretty stupid, but hopefully he's not stupid enough to pick a fight with Russia over this.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']Bush is pretty stupid, but hopefully he's not stupid enough to pick a fight with Russia over this.[/QUOTE]

He won't. But much will happen very soon that complicates matters and escalates violence in many places. A direct confrontation with Russia is out of the question, which is why most will be through proxy.

Watch October.

Psychic Thrustbucket says watch news about Pakistan and possibly India as well.
 
[quote name='camoor']The cheap desalination could become a reality - but the potable part is the part that I'm not so sure about.

Irrigation (and to a degree even simple city/suburbia use) is a little more challenging then "adding a little tubing" - when you're talking about waterways and an increasing need for water, there are a few questions that come to mind:

Does that much water exist upstream? Do the people upstream like you? Can you pump that much in from downstream/under-the-ground sources? Does drawing from non-traditional sources affect anyone else's fortunes?[/quote]

I don't see how a rancid and undesirable water source couldn't be used.

http://www.thefarm.org/charities/i4at/surv/distill.htm

"Distillation will remove from water almost anything, even heavy metals, poisons, bacteria and viruses. However, it does not remove substances that have boiling points at a lower temperature than water. Some of these substances are oils, petroleum, alcohol and similar substances, which in most cases don't mix with water. Also, remember that substances removed from water remain in the boiler, so you'll need to clean it up every once in awhile."

 
http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/georgia-russia-conflict-predicted-in-2001-video-game/1237410

Recent news coverage of the worrying ground war between Russia and Georgia could well leave gamers with a sense of deja vu.
The South Ossetia war, which began on August 7, bears a close resemblance to events portrayed in the 2001 Xbox and Playstation 2 game "Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon," the first level of which takes place against the backdrop of a struggle between Georgian rebel forces and the legitimate Georgian government in the South Ossetian region.
Ghost Recon's plot follows these skirmishes with a full-scale Russian invasion of the region, a subsequent evacuation of US forces, and ultimately the fall of the Georgian government. Ghost Recon almost got the timescale right, too: the game's imaginary events begin in April 2008, just a few months before the real war kicked off.


If Ghost Recon's uncanny trend continues, we can expect the South Ossetia conflict to culminate in a dramatic assault on Red Square and the Kremlin by NATO troops -- spearheaded by an elite US special forces team under the control of a pimply fourteen-year-old with a joypad. Considering that the most recent game in the Ghost Recon series climaxes with an oh-so-narrowly-averted terrorist nuclear strike on the US, we hope the predictive power of the game runs out. Soon.
Click to expand...

Weird
 
fuck McCain.. In an effort to inflate the issue simply for the purposes of the campaign, McCain said today:

"My friends, we have reached a crisis, the first probably serious crisis internationally since the end of the Cold War. This is an act of aggression."

Are you fucking kidding me?
 
pointless question.

If I were Iraqi, I’d disagree
If I were Kuwaiti, I’d disagree
If I were in NYC, I’d disagree
If I were in Afghanistan, I’d disagree
If I were in the Slavic states, I’d disagree
If I were John McCain in July, I’d disagree

But If I were a Georgian living in Georgia, I'd rather see some action to back it up. The GOP doesn't have a great track record.
 
[quote name='usickenme']fuck McCain.. In an effort to inflate the issue simply for the purposes of the campaign, McCain said today:

"My friends, we have reached a crisis, the first probably serious crisis internationally since the end of the Cold War. This is an act of aggression."

Are you fucking kidding me?[/quote]

#-o
 
[quote name='usickenme']by the way, I'm not say it is not an international crisis. Clearly it is. But it is not the first.[/QUOTE]

Oh ok. Well that makes more sense then. No it's not. But I guess that depends on how you define international crisis.

What Russia has done does have far more implications that could potentially effect multiple countries from now on. I can't think of an incident that has done that in the past 18 years.
 
Really. I'd say Kuwait invasion certainly begat many problems we are still dealing with.

It led to Saddam becoming an enemy of the US and vice versa. It led to a cease-fire/ UN sanctions whose violations are one of the reasosn for the Iraq War

It led to military bases in Saudi- a major grip of Bin Laden- which lead to 9/11- which lead to Afghanistan and ‘War on Terror’ here and abroad


It led to Kurds being slaughtered after Bush Sr. abandoned them.

It led to China and Iran, upgrading their military technology after seeing the US in action

It led to Saudi trying to regain the favor of Islamic extremist by building mosques and funding the Taliban

It increased US mistrust in the Arab world.
 
Well that's all fine and dandy, but your forgetting that the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq occurred on August 2nd, 1990. The collapse of the Soviet Union occurred on December 26, 1991.

So if your point was to argue against McCain's assertion, you can't use the Kuwait invasion.
 
The hell I can't because McCain didn't say "since the collapse of the Soviet Union"

It was 2 years EARLIER in 1989 at the malta summit when Bush Sr. and Gorbachev announced a new peaceful era between the countries. It is commonly regarded as the End of the Cold War
 
If you think that Middle Eastern distrust of the West began in 1991...

We can thank the European powers for that, and largely the British. They gassed more Iraqis than Saddam ever did. They promised independence to Middle Eastern countries in exhange for their support in World War 1, and promptly reneged and divided the region between themselves, France, and Russia. They swindled Iran out of its oil, repeatedly occupied the country, and when they tried to nationalize their oil, they blockaded their ports and invented fake evidence of Soviet involvement in order to get the US to help overthrow the government.

And lets not forget about that prime strip of land along the Mediterranean that we threw the Arabs out of and filled with Europeans. They might still be bitter about that.
 
not to get on you too much dafoomie but are you fucking blind or do you just not read shit. It's great you took a class on the middle east but I clearly said it "increased" distrust of the US.
 
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[quote name='dafoomie']If you think that Middle Eastern distrust of the West began in 1991...

We can thank the European powers for that, and largely the British. They gassed more Iraqis than Saddam ever did. They promised independence to Middle Eastern countries in exhange for their support in World War 1, and promptly reneged and divided the region between themselves, France, and Russia. They swindled Iran out of its oil, repeatedly occupied the country, and when they tried to nationalize their oil, they blockaded their ports and invented fake evidence of Soviet involvement in order to get the US to help overthrow the government.

And lets not forget about that prime strip of land along the Mediterranean that we threw the Arabs out of and filled with Europeans. They might still be bitter about that.[/quote]Actually, you're talking about the Treaty of Versailles, where it was the UK, France, and the US. Russia had no part in it.
 
am i missing something?
south ossetia wants to separate and join russia but georgia won't let them.

isn't that very un-democratic?
 
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']Actually, you're talking about the Treaty of Versailles, where it was the UK, France, and the US. Russia had no part in it.[/QUOTE]
I'm actually thinking of the Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916. Russia was to get Constantinople (Istanbul) and other parts of modern day Turkey, but the other nations reneged after the Bolshevik Revolution. The Soviets released the then secret treaty after they reneged, increasing tensions in the region.
 
[quote name='kainzero']am i missing something?
south ossetia wants to separate and join russia but georgia won't let them.

isn't that very un-democratic?[/quote]

If Alaska wanted to join Canada or California wanted to join Mexico, the rest of the US would probably attack them.

South Ossetia is part of Georgia. If they want to secede, they have to accept the consequences. Of course, Russia will ensure those consequences are minimal.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']If Alaska wanted to join Canada or California wanted to join Mexico, the rest of the US would probably attack them.
[/QUOTE]

For the record, we don't want to join Mexico.
 
why is the girl talking about she was running from Georgian troops and the Russians were helping her out... the way she interjected that comment makes me feel something was not true, or forced when she said it.
 
Rice Admits Georgia Started War with Russia

George Washington's Blog
Friday, Sept 19, 2008

​
A BBC article from today confirmed what many people have been saying:
​
Speaking at an event organised by the German Marshall Fund in Washington, Ms Rice acknowledged that Georgia had fired the first shots in the breakaway region of South Ossetia.

​
"The Georgian government launched a major military operation into Tskhinvali [the capital of South Ossetia] and other areas of that separatist region," she said.

"Regrettably, several Russian peacekeepers were killed in the fighting," she added.
​
 
[quote name='level1online']Rice Admits Georgia Started War with Russia

George Washington's Blog
Friday, Sept 19, 2008

​
A BBC article from today confirmed what many people have been saying:
​
Speaking at an event organised by the German Marshall Fund in Washington, Ms Rice acknowledged that Georgia had fired the first shots in the breakaway region of South Ossetia.

​
"The Georgian government launched a major military operation into Tskhinvali [the capital of South Ossetia] and other areas of that separatist region," she said.

"Regrettably, several Russian peacekeepers were killed in the fighting," she added.
​
[/QUOTE]

It's so unlike you to believe the official story. You know the party line is a cover-up for Russia's covertly starting the war, right? I'm serious here, there are many eyewitness accounts.
 
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