getting worried

[quote name='Thomas96']one question that needs to be asked.. can sony at least be number two this holiday season in sales.. [from Nov. through Dec.] with a price drop and the list of games they've got coming out. Honestly, Sony has some decent games ready for the holidays...[/QUOTE]
As an owner of all 3 consoles... I dont expect Sony to be better than third for a long while... certainly not this holiday... nintendo will overtake the 360 for top console overall in worldwide sales very soon, if it hasnt happened by now. I have no problem with Nintendo winning this round. Sony feels the need to shove some proprietary format down our throats every year.

... and there are so many people (including PS3 owners) who dont give a rats ass about hi def movie formats... myself... well I bought the PS3 primarily for the blu ray, but also have about 15 games for the system as well
 
Yeah, I don't think pushing HD will drive PS3 sales much. It will help some in the long run, but not enough for them to get out of 3rd place and all likelihood, and certainly not enough to sell over 100 million like they did with the PS2.

It was simply a generation to early to push a high def movie playing gaming machine. Costs were too high for it and HDTV adoption to low at the start of the generation for such a machine to have any chance at PS2 level success.
 
HD is being pushed regardless of what Sony does, but they figure why not be on the cutting edge of the next trend so that they can be granfathered in when the switch finally happens. You dont get rich by waiting for the next big thing and tagging a long, you get rich by jumping into the pool early and risking things.

Sony has said numerous times they arnt in any rush to try an over take a system that already had a year lead when they launched. The wii is an exception because it's half the price of any system availible so OF COURSE it's going to do well in that type of environment. That's like trying to sell SNES against a 3DO and NeoGeo Guess which sold more?!

The PS3 isnt going anywhere, The price drop along with the slow but steady uptake in games is helping to build momentum. Most systems dont really get a good roll going on games until after the first year and the PS3 in the US is still just under a year old.

In the time the 36o has existed it's been outpaced by a system that has virtually nothing more than the same things the PS2 has with a few mediocre exceptions and a fancy controller, the 36o has blown it's load on the best titles it can produce and has nothing really exciting in the pipe, not to mention the difficulty in fitting hidef games on DVD. The PS3 has no where to go but up as the limitations of both competing systems start to show in the next year or two. It'll eventually become the default if you want to do something better console wise.
 
Actually, it has a few very interesting things in a pipe for 2008, but a lot of those are PC ports, I'd rather get them on my PC.

The interesting thing is, the bluray does help developers a bit. And that's not just spouting some company line either. I'm a student animator/3D artist, to produce an art asset that's of the quality needed to go into one of these recent games I've found it takes a lot of space. Then add to that animations, blend shapes, animated textures, then multiply it by the many characters, sets, and props needed for a game. That's a lot of space just for the art. Then on top there's audio in multiple languages, soundtrack, and any other extras they want on the disc.

But, make no mistake about it, one of the key reasons why Sony put the bluray disc on the PS3 is to help push that format over HDDVD, but to say it's done nothing for games is a bit foolish.

Espeically in the future as bigger, or at least more complex games come out as developers learn the hardware, that'll mean even more space used, and compression only goes so far before it starts making load times longer as the system must uncompress data, instead of just streaming it in on the hard drive and disc.
 
[quote name='zman73']As an owner of all 3 consoles... I dont expect Sony to be better than third for a long while... certainly not this holiday... nintendo will overtake the 360 for top console overall in worldwide sales very soon, if it hasnt happened by now. I have no problem with Nintendo winning this round. Sony feels the need to shove some proprietary format down our throats every year.

... and there are so many people (including PS3 owners) who dont give a rats ass about hi def movie formats... myself... well I bought the PS3 primarily for the blu ray, but also have about 15 games for the system as well[/QUOTE]


people like HiDef, they do give a rats ass about high def products... even if they don't know how to use them. lol Even if 10 years from now Sony comes in third its not like they produced bad product. I don't think anyone with a PS3 can honestly say they don't like it. When making a system, you've got to make it easy for devs to make games for it, and the system can't be too expensive. Sony was too secretive about the PS3 specs for too long and even they're still learning how to use it... and where's the games from Kuturagi and Namco? [the ps3 experts]
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Strongly doubt it. They have some decent games, but not really AAA system sellers.

Wii will win both because it's still selling out everywhere, and will get a big boost from Mario Galaxy and especially Super Smash Bros Brawl.

360 will keep selling well on the strength of Halo 3 and the other big games already out, and the holiday bundles will move more units.

PS3 will see a nice boost with the $400 price and some more games coming out, but will finish a little behind MS.

At least that's my prediction.[/QUOTE]

Rachet AAA
UT 3 AAA
and Eye of Judgement - sleeper hit.


Mario and Smash will do well cause their really isn't anything that great on the Wii, that's why those first party games look bigger than they really are. I don't think Galaxy is going to be great, but it'll sell well. But I don't think that smash and galaxy are going to actually 'push' Wii systems. [points to attachment rates] I got a feeling that 360 might not do as well as people think. They are definitely in danger in finishing 3rd.

overall PS3 has the best holiday lineup
 
[quote name='Thomas96']
overall PS3 has the best holiday lineup[/QUOTE]

In your opinion of course. Ratchet will be good, but I can take or leave those games, and would take a new Mario over a Ratchet any day of the week.

As for best sellers, the big sellers this x-mas will be Mario Galaxy, Halo 3 (even though it came out in Sept, it will still sell big all fall) and Guitar Hero 3 IMO. Ratchet will sell well, but there aren't enough PS3s out there for it to be in the top 5 if even top 10.
 
Actually, I think Heavenly Sword briefly made it into the top 10 at number 7. Or it could have been a different PS3 game. So the market it still there.

One good thing overall is that all the major 3rd party games are multiplatform and have a PS3 version. Rock Band and Guitar Hero 3 most importantly.

I'm actually not sure of the Holiday lineups. The 3rd party stuff, as above, is pretty even since everything's multiplatform.

So far as I know, the main exclusives left for this year are Eye of Judgment, Ratchet and Clank, GT5 Prologue, Uncharted, Time Crisis 4, and Haze.

Anyone know what MS exclusives they're bringing to the table in these last 3 months? I haven't been following that side much. Halo 3 sales will of course follow into the holiday sales. There's Mass Effect too, but I can't remember what else. There were quite a few though.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']In your opinion of course. Ratchet will be good, but I can take or leave those games, and would take a new Mario over a Ratchet any day of the week.

As for best sellers, the big sellers this x-mas will be Mario Galaxy, Halo 3 (even though it came out in Sept, it will still sell big all fall) and Guitar Hero 3 IMO. Ratchet will sell well, but there aren't enough PS3s out there for it to be in the top 5 if even top 10.[/QUOTE]


Halo 3... LOL already outsold by Orange box... [for the week]

The good thing for PS3 this holiday season is that there's going to a nice set of games for it. A Customer for PS3 won't be able to say that the PS3 doesn't have games, cause all the big 3rd party games, will be present on PS3 as well.


PS3

Haze
UT3
Ratchet
Eye of Judgement [sleeper]
 
Actually, the Orange Box only outsold Halo 3 for that week, not in total or first week sales.

So Halo 3 still has way more sales total, but I wonder how strong it'll be over the coming months? Probably will continue constant good sales through 2008.

Okay, so I've looked at the exclusives for the remainder of this month for the 360:
Ace Combat 6? Not sure how exclusive, but we'll just call it permanently exclusive because there's no point in arguing.
Viva Pinata: Party Animals
Mass Effect
America's Army

We can add Halo 3 simply because it's a big, big seller.

But, that's it. This Holiday the 360 relies on its strong 2007 lineup, which isn't a bad idea. Mass Effect also really helps the system as it's the first big western developed action/RPG.

Meanwhile, for the PS3 as far as I know there's: Eye of Judgment, Ratchet and Clank, GT5 Prologue, Uncharted, Time Crisis 4, and Haze.

While the PS3 has more games releasing around the holidays, there's a lot of there's been problem of PS3 exclusives lacking in certain areas, so people are apprehensive about these new 2007 titles. Not to mention two of the PS3 exclusives rely on peripherals like the Eye Camera and GunCon. However, the market has shown its more open to peripheral based games with Rock Band. I don't expect either game to be big successes, probably sleeper hits that'll have enough player support to get sequels.

I forget which company makes the GunCon, but they really should have invested in a new game to push the guncon, rather than a rehash. Or at least contacted a bunch of other developers and given them free guncons and dev kits so that they could integrate such functionality in their games.

Ratchet and Clank is the most well known, with most buzz around the game saying it's a good sequel, doesn't add too much new, but a worthy addition to the Ratchet and Clank series.

Uncharted, we can't say too much about. It looks good from the videos, and the demo at comic-con I played was good despite control issues. We'll have to see upon its release.

GT5 Prologue is going to get sales, I know there's other racers out there, but GT has always been pretty strong in the racing market, and this will probably continue.

Haze is an unknown, just like Uncharted, it looks pretty good, especially with the confirmed 4 player co-op. The nectar mechanic is interesting, but that's the only unique thing about the setting really. I think at the very least it'll be a very good game to play over the PSN, perhaps replacing resistence. Holding over FPS players until Killzone 2, or some yet unannounced project comes out 2008.

Overall though, this holiday season the whole idea of "ps3 has no games" dies. Between the exclusives, and the many multiplatform games, the PS3 finally has a worthy library.
 
IMO. Ratchet will sell well, but there aren't enough PS3s out there for it to be in the top 5 if even top 10.
Click to expand...
I think this is key. Halo 3 sold 3+ million copies already. There aren't even 3 million PS3s out there.
 
[quote name='Vanigan']Actually, I think Heavenly Sword briefly made it into the top 10 at number 7. Or it could have been a different PS3 game. So the market it still there.
[/QUOTE]

I meant top ten for the whole holiday season, not just for release week.
 
[quote name='Vanigan']Actually, the Orange Box only outsold Halo 3 for that week, not in total or first week sales.

So Halo 3 still has way more sales total, but I wonder how strong it'll be over the coming months? Probably will continue constant good sales through 2008.
[/QUOTE]



That was the point I was trying to make by the fact that orange box has already begun out selling it. [halo 3]
 
[quote name='Thomas96']That was the point I was trying to make by the fact that orange box has already begun out selling it. [halo 3][/QUOTE]

But Halo 3 will still end up being a top Q4/holiday seller, and keep driving 360 sales, and your early comment was about who would win the holiday season, not one particular week.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']But Halo 3 will still end up being a top Q4/holiday seller, and keep driving 360 sales, and your early comment was about who would win the holiday season, not one particular week.[/QUOTE]


oh my point in mentioning Halo 3 one week lapse is just to say that during the holiday season it wont be the top selling game. Not during Nov and Dec. Maybe Mario Galaxy[assuming that's still coming out this year, cause its been really low buzz on that game] and lets not forget Mass Effect... there's just too many games and Halo 3 like all games when released lose some of their novelty - same reason why for at leat one week orange box was on top.

torile said that there aren't 3 million ps3s in the US, which is funny and sad at the same time. Even if PS3 has a AAA title for this holiday season, its not like they really have the user base to oust Halo 3, Mario, and the other big titles.
Sony is out of this race 2007 holiday season, they just need to get as many sales as they can muster. Because this year they aren't in a position to win. However they can set themselves up for next year Jan/Feb, and thus for the entire 2008 year.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I meant top ten for the whole holiday season, not just for release week.[/quote]

And my response was addressing your argument that the PS3 didn't have enough consoles out there to generate noteworthy sales. It does have enough consoles out ther to generate noteworthy sales. Now it just needs some good games to sell.
 
[quote name='Vanigan']And my response was addressing your argument that the PS3 didn't have enough consoles out there to generate noteworthy sales. It does have enough consoles out ther to generate noteworthy sales. Now it just needs some good games to sell.[/QUOTE]

It can generate noteworthy sales, just not top 5 (or maybe top 10) for a whole quarter in the US, especially the holiday quarter.

Latest numbers I saw in an article yesterday were 1.9 million PS3s, 4.5 million Wiis and 6.8 Million 360s--was an article about 360 selling well in Sept. with Halo and PS3 sales being "dismal" that month.

So yes, the base is there to have some big sellers. But hard to in a quarter when your installed base is that much smaller than the others as sells will bottom out faster.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']oh my point in mentioning Halo 3 one week lapse is just to say that during the holiday season it wont be the top selling game. Not during Nov and Dec. Maybe Mario Galaxy[assuming that's still coming out this year, cause its been really low buzz on that game] and lets not forget Mass Effect... there's just too many games and Halo 3 like all games when released lose some of their novelty - same reason why for at leat one week orange box was on top.
[/quote]

Oh I agree. But it will still be in the top 10, and possibly the top 5, when all uis said and done as it will sell to pretty much everyone who buys a 360 with the new Bundle deal, or gets one for x-mas etc.

torile said that there aren't 3 million ps3s in the US, which is funny and sad at the same time. Even if PS3 has a AAA title for this holiday season, its not like they really have the user base to oust Halo 3, Mario, and the other big titles.
Sony is out of this race 2007 holiday season, they just need to get as many sales as they can muster. Because this year they aren't in a position to win. However they can set themselves up for next year Jan/Feb, and thus for the entire 2008 year.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I've been saying all along, including in my post above this one. With 1.9 million in the US right now, they just don't have the base to sell enough games in Q4 to come in higher than third in Q4 hardware or software sales.

They just need to get as many consoles in homes as they can and hope to have a strong 2008.
 
The good thing is that PS3 sales are on par with 360 sales from its first year, but Sony definitely needs to make a hard push this chrismas. The PS3 is a big purchase, and people wait till this part of the year to make those big purchases.

Sony has a cheap system present.. nice set of holiday exclusives, they just need a nice holiday marketing campaign.

How many PS3s does sony need to sale (minimal) to be successful?
 
[quote name='Thomas96']

How many PS3s does sony need to sale (minimal) to be successful?[/QUOTE]

How do you define successful?

1. successful in sales? They need to triple to quadruple their sales each month to just compete with the 360 and Wii, and that is just to maintain their 3rd place status right now. To make it to #2 or even #1 they would have outsell the 360 or Wii every month to even stand a chance at catching up. It could be a while.

2. successful in revenue? They lose on every unit so it will be a long while before this happens.

3. successful in woo-ing third party support back? See #1.
 
Yeah, I couldn't put a number on it. All I could say is they need to at least come close to tying MS for second fro me to consider it remotely successful.

And I doubt the Sony execs would even consider than a success after dominating the past two gens. By those standards it has no chance at being a success.
 
[quote name='Corvin']How do you define successful?

1. successful in sales? They need to triple to quadruple their sales each month to just compete with the 360 and Wii, and that is just to maintain their 3rd place status right now. To make it to #2 or even #1 they would have outsell the 360 or Wii every month to even stand a chance at catching up. It could be a while.

2. successful in revenue? They lose on every unit so it will be a long while before this happens.

3. successful in woo-ing third party support back? See #1.[/QUOTE]




successful measured by sales of consoles = x and x = how many console does sony need to sale this holiday season. 1 million 2, 3, 4, etc. If Sony can come in 1st or 2nd in consoles sales, then that's definite success, however that's not too likely at this point, however, even at 3 there's at least a minimal amount of sales that they need to make. oh the Wii only has one great holiday title... mario... if price was the main issue, then for this holiday its been solved, so lets see what PS3 can do.
 
That's true. If price is truly the defining problem with the PS3 then that argument disappears in a week since the PS3 will now be at the price the 360 was when it launched.
 
Yeah, if you're talking success for just this holiday season, then 2nd place in console sales would be it (as the Wii is unstoppable).

But I don't see that happening either with the 360 being $50 cheaper with 2 games and stuff like Halo, Bioshock, Mass Effect etc. enticing more people to buy one or ask for one for X-mas.

[quote name='Corvin']That's true. If price is truly the defining problem with the PS3 then that argument disappears in a week since the PS3 will now be at the price the 360 was when it launched.[/QUOTE]

Still not totally true. At $400 it's still $150 more than the Wii, $120 more than the 360 Arcade pack and $50 more than the 360 premium that now comes with two decent games.

Price is less of a barrier now, but it's still a deterrent to buying one coupled with still lacking that absolute 1005 must play AAA system seller type game it's bound to factor into many potential buyers' minds.
 
Okay, I'm going to say things you all may not believe I'm saying. I posted this same thing at PSU (where I tend to not be so fanboyish, more so a little more critical of PS3).

I'll admit, I am getting a bit worried myself, although I honestly hope the big step up in advertising helps.

I remember last gen, for the most part, PS2 was the "cool" system to own. Yeah it lacked online, no multi-tap, and IMO was barely a step above PS2 (all it did was add a DVD player, improved the graphics, and had a slightly better controller) and it was insanely popular. At the beginning, Xbox was hated on, where people tried to find faults with Halo (Yes, this was true at one point). GC seemed to be a tad cool near launch, but quickly started to fade after RE remake came to it. Around the Holiday season in 2002 and outwards, it seemed like PS2 and Xbox were the cool consoles, while GC was not. Although people bash the GC a lot (I own one myself and although it wasn't my favorite console, I feel the console deserved more credit than people gave it). So with this generation, it seems like Wii and 360 are the cool consoles to own. Although PS3 might have sold out at launch, things were not exactly looking good because it seemed like the cool thing to do was to buy a PS3 just to Ebay it. And once the pricing came down on ebay and scalpers stopped buying them, it just seemed like the mass market didn't care about a PS3. I dunno if it was lack of advertising or something.

Although many have said themselves, with PS2 still selling well, it shows many have not upgraded and they are still possible PS3 owners (and with PS2 stuff still selling well early this year). Okay, I use to think the exact same thing myself, but I noticed something. I pretty much assumed Guitar Hero III on PS2 would outsell 360, Wii, and PS3 (well, maybe not 360, but at least Wii). Well, PS2 came in 3rd it seems (PS3 selling half of that). That doesn't even equal half of what the 360 version sold. And with Madden and other sports games this year, the 360 version really outsold the PS2 + PS3 version together (I think). And oh course PS2 sales have dropped a bit. Now, if these games were still selling insanely hot on PS2, I would assume people weren't upgrading, but since that doesn't seem to be the case, it seems like many people have upgraded, but just not to a PS3.

Without a doubt IMO, the PS3 is a pretty big upgrade compared to what PS2 was (IMO, bigger than 360 from Xbox and Wii from GC), but it seems to have made little difference. This may be a stupid assumption, but I kind of wonder if PS3 going to the classic black colored console has hurt a little, because the iPod white seems to be the "in color" for electronics (Some may bring up the Elite, but it seems to me the Premium still greatly outsells it). It worries me a little that PS3 doesn't even seem to exists to people (in NA especially). It seems like a Wii and 360 are the only consoles, along with PS2. Sony continues dropping the price and it still barely helps. I'm even getting worried that if PS3 was priced at $200-$300 with several great games, it would still have problems selling.

Please, understand that I'm not trying to say doom and gloom for PS3 (because I absolutely love mine and would love it to do well), the trend I'm seeing really doesn't look good (partially because PS3 is still to release good games and 3rd party games are looking just as good on PS3 now, or most I should say). Things could turn around because they certainly did for the original Xbox (to where it even outsold PS2 in the year 2004 in NA, but was still too far behind). Although, there's no denying this is having a tad effect on me and causing me to greatly consider a Wii (I was going to buy one anyway) and make that my main console (since it's doing well and I do like Japanese type games). At least it seems to be getting 2nd in Japan and most of Europe, so PS3 might still stay my favorite console overall.
 
I'm sorry but if anyone buys a $400 console because it's the "cool" system to have, they are a moron. You buy the console with the games you like. Period.

I do have to agree with the new direction with the commercial. A definite improvement that should help.
 
Not too difficult to figure out.

The cell didn't turn out as promised, it's still a good chip, but not that much better than the more standard PC-like architectures. Well, at least for now, there's been good results, but the problem is teaching every single game programmer and technical director how to use the new architecture.

So, they moved to offload the development of the cell and manufacturing of the chips for some cash, while focusing their money on getting games for the PS3.

The thing is, I suspect that the HD-DVD group is making some seriously gutsy moves right now. I'm sure they paid paramount and that other studio a whole lot of money to be exclusive. And those cheap HD-DVD players are interesting... You see, I don't recall any reports that said HD-DVD components and manufacturing were that much cheaper. It's likely they farmed out the manufacturing to the lowest cost sweat shops in china and then subsidized the price much like how Sony is subsidizing the PS3. However, unlike the PS3 HD-DVD players cost a lot less so a little subsidizing goes a long way.

I think these two moves were meant to coincide with the holiday season, a big, and likely costly move to get share. No one knows if it'll pay off, but it probably will. However, Bluray was very much winning up until that point, and the HD-DVD group knew it. Sony is buried in the PS3 race, so they can't respond to the price drop as quickly. We'll see something to respond out of the bluray camp, but who knows if it'll be before or after the holidays.
 
Sony put all their eggs in one basket (the PS3).

They thought it would be a run away success, based on the previous performance of the past two Playstations.

They bet too much on the PS brand name alone and arrogantly made poor business decisions, and it seems now they've finally come to the realization that there is more to be number one, than just a name.

They are now making moves to try and fix their past wrongs, only time will tell if they will pay off.
 
I don't think "all the eggs" is a good metaphor for this one, can't think of the right metaphor though.

But yes, it was clearly arrogance. The system itself wasn't bad, but they clearly didn't do the research nor prepare for the global competition in the way MS did. It was all brand name alone, what with the way their multiplayer, store, and friends system were tacked on. Add to that the higher price and the only reason why the PS3 isn't a complete failure was that they had the money and the will to do what was necessary to get the PS3 successful. It also helped a lot that despite the cost, the PS3 was a very good piece of hardware, meanwhile the 360 suffered greatly from the obviously rushed release of its hardware.

Oh yes, it's more like they were counting their chickens before they hatched.
 
[quote name='Vanigan']Not too difficult to figure out.

The cell didn't turn out as promised, it's still a good chip, but not that much better than the more standard PC-like architectures. Well, at least for now, there's been good results, but the problem is teaching every single game programmer and technical director how to use the new architecture.

So, they moved to offload the development of the cell and manufacturing of the chips for some cash, while focusing their money on getting games for the PS3.

The thing is, I suspect that the HD-DVD group is making some seriously gutsy moves right now. I'm sure they paid paramount and that other studio a whole lot of money to be exclusive. And those cheap HD-DVD players are interesting... You see, I don't recall any reports that said HD-DVD components and manufacturing were that much cheaper. It's likely they farmed out the manufacturing to the lowest cost sweat shops in china and then subsidized the price much like how Sony is subsidizing the PS3. However, unlike the PS3 HD-DVD players cost a lot less so a little subsidizing goes a long way.

I think these two moves were meant to coincide with the holiday season, a big, and likely costly move to get share. No one knows if it'll pay off, but it probably will. However, Bluray was very much winning up until that point, and the HD-DVD group knew it. Sony is buried in the PS3 race, so they can't respond to the price drop as quickly. We'll see something to respond out of the bluray camp, but who knows if it'll be before or after the holidays.[/QUOTE]We all know MS are the ones behind pushing HD-DVD further. They love to kill off their competition and want to do whatever it takes to kill Sony off. This is one reason I'm highly against supporting MS even if 75% of the games were on their platform. I just don't support their business tactics.

Since Blockbuster is blu-ray exclusive, and blu-ray has exclusive support from Sony, Disney, and 20th Century Fox, they are still in it. IMO, Sony has done most of their job, it's just that the other companies supporting them need to step it up (It seems like Sony is doing most work themselves).

As for the Cell, Sony is still keeping it for the PS3, but they aren't going to use it in various products, which was their previous plan I guess. Most of the reason for the high PS3 tag is because of how expensive the Cell is and it really drained Sony a lot of money.

I also think Sony was planning to release PS3 in 2007/2008, but MS early launch forced them to release earlier than expected.

For the last time, Sony isn't anymore arrogant that MS and Nintendo.

The reason for the current PS Store layout is because there isn't enough RAM (due to the XMB eating up too much currently) to integrate it into the XMB, which is why it's a webpage. Sony isn't a software company and its why they have problems with it (the same reason why MS can't figure out their hardware problems).
[quote name='Corvin']I'm sorry but if anyone buys a $400 console because it's the "cool" system to have, they are a moron. You buy the console with the games you like. Period.

I do have to agree with the new direction with the commercial. A definite improvement that should help.[/QUOTE]I'm being very serious here. Back when I was in H.S., despite PS2 having a pretty terrible lineup of games early on, it was the "cool" thing to buy a PS2, and "not cool" to own a Dreamcast. Later on, it was "cool" to own a PS2 and "not cool" to own an Xbox (eventually changed to GC). Now these days in H.S., it's like every H.S. and college student has to get a 360. Not just because of games, but because it's what everyone owns and it's currently considered "cool". One reason why Sony did so well in the past was because they were considered "cool". I know a decent number of PS2 owners whose console is mostly filled with launch games (and nothing new). They bought it when it was considered "cool" and eventually wore off.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']We all know MS are the ones behind pushing HD-DVD further. They love to kill off their competition and want to do whatever it takes to kill Sony off. This is one reason I'm highly against supporting MS even if 75% of the games were on their platform. I just don't support their business tactics.
[/QUOTE]

I'm no fan of MS as a company, not by a long shot but you've got some serious, sony knob slobbering blinders on if you don't think Sony wanted to do the same thing.

The PS1 and PS2 were huge successes and just dominated the industry. They wanted the PS3 to continue to rule the video game industry, to get blu ray players in home so the could rule the HD home movie market, and intoduce Tivo like functions etc. so they could rule the living room.

They're every bit as greedy as MS in those regards, they've just failed miserably so far.

Companies are only in business for the bottom line. One of many reasons why I have no loyalty to any of these companies or their over priced hunks of plastic, and will never understand fanboyism.




And buying a console just because it's cool? Sorry, gaming isn't "cool" period, so I couldn't care less which system is considered "cool" when deciding what to buy. But given that past thread of yours with your list of like 100+ things that make you a nerd, I could see why you'd have an obsession with trying to be cool.
 
[quote name='Inf^Shini']OK...tell me what this means for Blu Ray and the PS3 :/

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6182641.html?tag=latestnews;title;1
and
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/09/sonys-stringer-blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-battle-a-stalemate/
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/09/1528235[/QUOTE]

1. That means the PS4 isn't guaranteed to be a cell-based system. ;)

2&3. That means Sony (and the HD-DVD folks, though they're not saying yet) are frustrated that the format isn't taking off like the "new" DVD. People are apathetic about the new HD formats and are staying away from them. Who can blame them? As limited as their basic information is (not everyone is willing to spend time scouring the internet for anything more than the superficial stuff anyway), the great unwashed sees waffling between formats from big movie houses like Paramount (and Michael Bay decrying the move claiming Blu-Ray is the ticket) as confusing at best. And within that, they see that if the studios don't know, how are they supposed to pick? So they wait until their smarter geekier neighbor (if they have one) picks a format for them... or worse yet, a best buy or CC goon does.

These are unfounded opinions and conjecture.... (I'm not an analyst... and I'm not an industry insider). Sony's sales are picking up, but they've got lots of ground to cover... Microsoft's still having their cake in the US, losing in Japan, and as for Europe... I get conflicting reports... (not sure what's happening there...)

I am satisfied with my purchase, and I'm not worried that Sony's going to pull a Sega next year... it's a huge company... they aren't going to concede to Microsoft that easily. :)

There's a big repositioning that's happening... things are becoming more and more about portables (look at laptop sales, the explosive market for cell-phones in Japan and places that don't have a craptacular infrastructure dominated by idiots like here in America)... The PSP is enjoying a bigger boost now thanks to new items in the lineup and greater exclusive titles (exclusive to portable... not PS2 ports, I mean.) I've never really had a problem with that aspect, but I'm not a typical user of the PSP, I suppose.

We're going to see the Wii hit critical mass any day now... because like everything else, those who have one will have one... and those who want one will have one as well... and that's not a bad thing for Nintendo, but it'll stop the rampant supply problems they've been having since launch... and sales will start to level off.. that isn't an indication of failure on N's part either. (so keep those cards and letters..)

And as for "cool" factor... the only people addicted to that intangible are being told what to buy anyway... and it's not consoles. ;)
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']Okay, I'm going to say things you all may not believe I'm saying. I posted this same thing at PSU (where I tend to not be so fanboyish, more so a little more critical of PS3).

I'll admit, I am getting a bit worried myself, although I honestly hope the big step up in advertising helps.

I remember last gen, for the most part, PS2 was the "cool" system to own. Yeah it lacked online, no multi-tap, and IMO was barely a step above PS2 (all it did was add a DVD player, improved the graphics, and had a slightly better controller) and it was insanely popular. At the beginning, Xbox was hated on, where people tried to find faults with Halo (Yes, this was true at one point). GC seemed to be a tad cool near launch, but quickly started to fade after RE remake came to it. Around the Holiday season in 2002 and outwards, it seemed like PS2 and Xbox were the cool consoles, while GC was not. Although people bash the GC a lot (I own one myself and although it wasn't my favorite console, I feel the console deserved more credit than people gave it). So with this generation, it seems like Wii and 360 are the cool consoles to own. Although PS3 might have sold out at launch, things were not exactly looking good because it seemed like the cool thing to do was to buy a PS3 just to Ebay it. And once the pricing came down on ebay and scalpers stopped buying them, it just seemed like the mass market didn't care about a PS3. I dunno if it was lack of advertising or something.

Although many have said themselves, with PS2 still selling well, it shows many have not upgraded and they are still possible PS3 owners (and with PS2 stuff still selling well early this year). Okay, I use to think the exact same thing myself, but I noticed something. I pretty much assumed Guitar Hero III on PS2 would outsell 360, Wii, and PS3 (well, maybe not 360, but at least Wii). Well, PS2 came in 3rd it seems (PS3 selling half of that). That doesn't even equal half of what the 360 version sold. And with Madden and other sports games this year, the 360 version really outsold the PS2 + PS3 version together (I think). And oh course PS2 sales have dropped a bit. Now, if these games were still selling insanely hot on PS2, I would assume people weren't upgrading, but since that doesn't seem to be the case, it seems like many people have upgraded, but just not to a PS3.

Without a doubt IMO, the PS3 is a pretty big upgrade compared to what PS2 was (IMO, bigger than 360 from Xbox and Wii from GC), but it seems to have made little difference. This may be a stupid assumption, but I kind of wonder if PS3 going to the classic black colored console has hurt a little, because the iPod white seems to be the "in color" for electronics (Some may bring up the Elite, but it seems to me the Premium still greatly outsells it). It worries me a little that PS3 doesn't even seem to exists to people (in NA especially). It seems like a Wii and 360 are the only consoles, along with PS2. Sony continues dropping the price and it still barely helps. I'm even getting worried that if PS3 was priced at $200-$300 with several great games, it would still have problems selling.

Please, understand that I'm not trying to say doom and gloom for PS3 (because I absolutely love mine and would love it to do well), the trend I'm seeing really doesn't look good (partially because PS3 is still to release good games and 3rd party games are looking just as good on PS3 now, or most I should say). Things could turn around because they certainly did for the original Xbox (to where it even outsold PS2 in the year 2004 in NA, but was still too far behind). Although, there's no denying this is having a tad effect on me and causing me to greatly consider a Wii (I was going to buy one anyway) and make that my main console (since it's doing well and I do like Japanese type games). At least it seems to be getting 2nd in Japan and most of Europe, so PS3 might still stay my favorite console overall.[/QUOTE]


I see your point and I have to agree with it. Sony was the cool system up until they announced the price at E3... and that immediately turned people off. But its up to Sony to change things around. and so far I'm pleased with what they're doing. Free online, lowered price skus, games. Sony still needs that game that makes people flock to the PS3. MGS4, God of War III, those are games that can bring some customers, and if you can get some customers to the system, then they'll stay because you got all the little extras that people can enjoy - Little Big Planet, Home, Free online, etc.

that lack of games, or no games argument should be thrown out the door, as of last month.
 
What happened last month that should make the no games argument be thrown out?

I don't own any games for my PS3 and I don't plan on buying any until MGS4.
 
Thanks for elaborating guys, I'm getting a bigger picture and understanding what in the world is going on. I tend not to follow this stuff to closely so I'm in the dark half the time >.>

[quote name='zewone']What happened last month that should make the no games argument be thrown out?

I don't own any games for my PS3 and I don't plan on buying any until MGS4.[/quote]
That argument should be cut down a bit (but I guess not completely void til next year?) by the end of this month with all the releases coming out/have come out.
 
The PS3 is getting a ton of games on November 20th and also in early December, the no games argument is dead as far as I'm concerned and starts a good precident for 2008.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']We all know MS are the ones behind pushing HD-DVD further. They love to kill off their competition and want to do whatever it takes to kill Sony off. This is one reason I'm highly against supporting MS even if 75% of the games were on their platform. I just don't support their business tactics.[/quote]

:lol: Umm, no. Take off those Sony shades and open your eyes. One, MS only supported HD because Blu-ray uses Java. MS is anti Java. The PC market is their bread and butter, gaming doesn't make them shit and they are merely protecting the market they dominate. That was the reason for going HD over BD.

Two, beyond your first sentence above, the rest is laughable at best. Do you know nothing of the Playstation's past with Nintendo? They released the PS to crush Nintendo due to the way they were treated on their joint CD based platforming venture. It was all about quantity over quality. Much like the Wii, Sony allowed/put out as much software(aka, shit) as they could to crush the N64 library. Sony aren't the saints you think they are, and are merely repeating history themselves.

Third, Sony is the company that shoe-horned BD into their PS3 just to overtake Toshiba and the HD camp. AKA "They love to kill off their competition and want to do whatever it takes to kill [the competition] off." They thought it would be their Trojan horse to push their proprietary format to the masses. How's that for business tactics? They go to their stock holders and say, "BD may not take off by itself, but if we put it into the PS3 and make it sound like it is required for gaming our 100 million customers will eat it up regardless of the cost." How could the stock holders say no?

And before the flames start, I'm an apple guy, and own all 3 consoles this gen. I've got no ties to MS, just trying to enlighten those that have been trapped in Sonyland for so long.
 
[quote name='Corvin']:lol: Umm, no. Take off those Sony shades and open your eyes. One, MS only supported HD because Blu-ray uses Java. MS is anti Java. The PC market is their bread and butter, gaming doesn't make them shit and they are merely protecting the market they dominate. That was the reason for going HD over BD.

Two, beyond your first sentence above, the rest is laughable at best. Do you know nothing of the Playstation's past with Nintendo? They released the PS to crush Nintendo due to the way they were treated on their joint CD based platforming venture. It was all about quantity over quality. Much like the Wii, Sony allowed/put out as much software(aka, shit) as they could to crush the N64 library. Sony aren't the saints you think they are, and are merely repeating history themselves.

Third, Sony is the company that shoe-horned BD into their PS3 just to overtake Toshiba and the HD camp. AKA "They love to kill off their competition and want to do whatever it takes to kill [the competition] off." They thought it would be their Trojan horse to push their proprietary format to the masses. How's that for business tactics? They go to their stock holders and say, "BD may not take off by itself, but if we put it into the PS3 and make it sound like it is required for gaming our 100 million customers will eat it up regardless of the cost." How could the stock holders say no?

And before the flames start, I'm an apple guy, and own all 3 consoles this gen. I've got no ties to MS, just trying to enlighten those that have been trapped in Sonyland for so long.[/QUOTE]

Very insightful. Distilled down for the cheap seats: Corporations are evil... it's just a different one on top at any given moment... We should not weep for Sony, nor should we believe that nintendo is simply those two funny looking guys in the Yaris on the commercial.

This is a cutthroat industry, and since it's been getting more and more important, we're seeing more overt cutthroat behavior....

I am pretty much platform agnostic, and I won't hesitate to point out the inherent evil in each corporation (even apple... I love Apple products, but their corporate position isn't exactly benign or benevolent.... heck, no company's is.)

Show me a corporation that is honest, cares for its customers, isn't out to take over the world, and is solidly a good corporate citizen and I'll show you one that's out of business. ;)
 
[quote name='Vanigan']The PS3 is getting a ton of games on November 20th and also in early December, the no games argument is dead as far as I'm concerned and starts a good precident for 2008.[/QUOTE]

The "no games" argument was always lame. Now, "no games that interest me" is what people should have been saying as that's subjective.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']The "no games" argument was always lame. Now, "no games that interest me" is what people should have been saying as that's subjective.[/QUOTE]

Indeed. If you really can't find a single thing you want to play on the PS3, you're trying too hard.
 
[quote name='Corvin']:lol: Umm, no. Take off those Sony shades and open your eyes. One, MS only supported HD because Blu-ray uses Java. MS is anti Java. The PC market is their bread and butter, gaming doesn't make them shit and they are merely protecting the market they dominate. That was the reason for going HD over BD.

[/QUOTE]

I think you're wrong on that account.. MS went with HD DVD not because of something as simple as Java. MS long admitted that they would considered using blu ray it won. As a matter of fact initally I don't think they were going to support either format. Not to say that they ONLY went with HDDVD to spite sony, but I think its naive for anyone on either side of the argument to say that MS considered the fact that Blu ray is Sony's product. If they would have went with Blu ray they'd have a better system, and a better product to compete against Sony.. Blu ray is the one feature that MS don't have, and if HDDVD goes under then you got a bunch of customers who just wasted their money.
 
[quote name='zewone']What happened last month that should make the no games argument be thrown out?

I don't own any games for my PS3 and I don't plan on buying any until MGS4.[/QUOTE]

you don't plan on buying any NES games [probably] either, but that doesn't mean they aren't available. That's another problem about this whole format war... people get their own options and decisions confused with the status of the market [or rather PS3 market] Just because you're not buying games doesnt mean they're not there.
 
I'm just bumping this thread to see how PS3 owners are feeling nowadays. (I was searching for "Bioshock" to see if there are any rumors of its release on the PS3, but I digress...)

Personally, I'm feeling better and better about it. No buyer's remorse this time around for me.
 
I have always been active in the console wars (been on the PS3 sides) but really listening to 1upYours and Sam Kennedy really made me stop caring about the console wars because he said that it's not really a war. Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft are not going to drop out or fail... so how the hell are we going to know who won?

Nobody even knows who won last generation. Nobody ever talked about it, they just went to the next generation.

All 3 are doing so damn well, it doesn't matter. This aint Sega Saturn vs. PS vs. N64, where one fails completely. And this aint like Bluray vs HDDVD where won has to drop out.

So, I am done.
 
No, the 360 is the "hardcore" system. It's not America's system like the PS2 was- at least not yet.

Actually, I never think it will, because it has such limited appeal *cough*shooters*cough*. The Wii is stuck in the past, so it will die out soon, and that leaves a big hole for the PS3, which has broad appeal. The only thing holding it back is the price point.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']
Nobody even knows who won last generation. Nobody ever talked about it, they just went to the next generation.[/quote]

Actually, the PS2 won handily...notice that there are no more Xboxes and GameCubes in stores?
 
[quote name='Unickuta']No, the 360 is the "hardcore" system. It's not America's system like the PS2 was- at least not yet.

Actually, I never think it will, because it has such limited appeal *cough*shooters*cough*. The Wii is stuck in the past, so it will die out soon, and that leaves a big hole for the PS3, which has broad appeal. The only thing holding it back is the price point.[/QUOTE]
The Wii is innovative. The HD thing sorta sucks, but the possibilities are great. I only have a problem with the sensor bar not work right for me and the online friends system blows. Those are both fixable.
 
[quote name='zewone']They bet too much on the PS brand name alone and arrogantly made poor business decisions, and it seems now they've finally come to the realization that there is more to be number one, than just a name.[/quote]

When I think "arrogant," I think Microsoft.
 
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