"God Hates Fags" group sued for $11 million - justice or squashing of free speech?

Maklershed

Maklershed

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Link to the article in question:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/10/31/funeral.protests.ap/index.html


I for one think its justice on the grandest scale. These people cause nothing but heartache to people who are already grieving. Even worse, they do it to the family of people who fight for the rights of our nation and defend our freedom. I'm sure there's a special place in hell for people who practice their kind of religion. But then again, perhaps they deserve the right to spread their message as much as anyone else. Should their kind of message be silenced just because I (and many others) dont like it? What do you think. Is this lawsuit squashing "God Hates Fags" rightful freedom of speech or is it a deserved punishment?


http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/10/31/funeral.protests.ap/index.html
 
Ugh, people like this irritate me so much. This is not concern for someone you feel are endagering their souls. This is mindless, mob-mentality hate. The fewer people like this out there, the better.
 
[quote name='CrimGhost']fuck those backwoods inbred hicks.[/quote]
Ok, I hate those people in all, but now your just stereotyping.
If I remember correctly from the special on BBC, they all lived in the same neighborhood in an urban area of Kansas, not in some trailer park.
 
[quote name='skid']Ok, I hate those people in all, but now your just stereotyping.
If I remember correctly from the special on BBC, they all lived in the same neighborhood in an urban area of Kansas, not in some trailer park.[/QUOTE]



i emphasized the key part. Kansas used to be a very progressive state, now I can't think of anything good that state offers.
 
I was conflicted about this at first, until I realized this isn't even really about "free speech" per se. It's about WHERE you can practice it. We've long held that there are some places that you don't get to say whatever you want, and this just adds funerals to that list. If these shitbirds want to spread their hate elsewhere, they can still do that.
 
I think the sentiment is fine (cemetaries are sacred ground - I'd say that's tantamount to private property) but the fee is ridiculous.

11 million? Come on.
 
[quote name='camoor']I think the sentiment is fine (cemetaries are sacred ground - I'd say that's tantamount to private property) but the fee is ridiculous.

11 million? Come on.[/QUOTE]
I'm disappointed it wasn't two or three times that amount, honestly.
 
It's a civil case, first of all, and it's about the consequences of the speech, not the speech itself. It's similar to someone publishing lies about you in their newspaper. If you can prove that that speech caused you damages in some way, well there ya go.
 
[quote name='skid']Ok, I hate those people in all, but now your just stereotyping.
If I remember correctly from the special on BBC, they all lived in the same neighborhood in an urban area of Kansas, not in some trailer park.[/QUOTE]

The majority of the WBC is comprised of the Phelps family itself.

$11million won't stand, so it's neither justice nor stifling of free speech issues. I also don't see the WBC stopping in our lifetimes, until sexuality issues are as embedded as race issues, in terms of social acceptance at large. Not until "fuck those fags" is as inappropriate to say as "fuck those niggers" will we see things stop (which is kinda redundant, now that I think about it).
 
From a Constitutional First Amendment analysis, the most protected areas are public parks and sidewalks. The picketing can't stop traffic or endanger people, and many permitting ordinances have been upheld so long as they are not subject to someone's discretion. Obviously, as the article states, many laws restricting speech (picketing) at funerals have been upheld because they are not discretionary and are not overbroad.

Do these people have a right to be there? Probably, at least according to the First Amendment and the progeny of USSC cases espoused therefrom. I think every state, or even the federal government, could constitutionally ban picketing at funerals. I suppose until this happens, $11 million verdicts will act as a nice dissuasion.

Do I want them to die painful awful deaths, and then have peopel pickett their funerals? Yeah, its hate speech. What we can't do is prevent these people from picketing just because we don't agree with what they have to say.

I always got a kick out of discussing whether "hate speech" should be protected under the 1st A. I think what differentiates this story from alot of other hate speech scenarios is that it took place at a funeral. Thats fucked up IMO.
 
I think it's really an issue of "time & place". Let the WBC spout their shit. Just let'em do it in an appropriate time & forum. I liken it to not yelling 'bomb' at the airport or 'fire' in a crowed theater. Hate speech at a funeral for a soldier has the potential to incite a riot and cause more grief beyond that person's death. So I say the $11 million is appropriate. Any sum less than extravagant probably wouldn't deter the WBC from, at the very least, being a bit more thoughtful about where/when they want to call someone a fag.
 
[quote name='jaykrue']I think it's really an issue of "time & place". Let the WBC spout their shit. Just let'em do it in an appropriate time & forum. I liken it to not yelling 'bomb' at the airport or 'fire' in a crowed theater. Hate speech at a funeral for a soldier has the potential to incite a riot and cause more grief beyond that person's death. So I say the $11 million is appropriate. Any sum less than extravagant probably wouldn't deter the WBC from, at the very least, being a bit more thoughtful about where/when they want to call someone a fag.[/QUOTE]Agreed.

The $11 million is too much of a fine though, because it "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants."
The aim is to punish them, not bankrupt them.
 
[quote name='Liquid 2']Agreed.

The $11 million is too much of a fine though, because it "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants."
The aim is to punish them, not bankrupt them.[/QUOTE]
I'd say bankruptcy is a fantastic punishment for these people. But not harsh enough - perhaps paralysis from the neck down?
 
[quote name='Kirin Lemon']I'd say bankruptcy is a fantastic punishment for these people. But not harsh enough - perhaps paralysis from the neck down?[/QUOTE]
Oh, I don't agree with them by any means; I agree that they're pieces of trash that aren't worth anyone's time, but if a precedent for excessive punishments like this is set, they'll just become more common.

The 8th Amendment is there to prevent that, thankfully.
 
The $11 million is excessive, why not just a million bucks everytime these idiots do something like this? I think that would be a reasonable deterrant.

I dunno how much money they really have though, and I think it should be relative to that. If $11 million dollars to them isn't bankrupting, but still a significant amount then go for it, but if they don't really have that much money then a smaller amount would do. If it isn't a large enough amount then it will just become a cost of business to them.

I'm with the other people that say that free speech doesn't mean you can say anything anywhere with no consequences.
 
You're not going to deter people who do things in the name of their "god" - the more oppressed they become, the more convinced they are of their righteousness.
 
This only encourages them, and raises awareness of the crap they are trying to spread. So basically, this is doing more harm than good to these nuts. Although I take great pleasure in knowing that when they die, they will finally see how wrong they are and how they wasted their lives.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']This only encourages them, and raises awareness of the crap they are trying to spread. So basically, this is doing more harm than good to these nuts. Although I take great pleasure in knowing that when they die, they will finally see how wrong they are and how they wasted their lives.[/QUOTE]

I dunno, I prefer a good ol' in-this-mortal-plane reawakening. I'm very disappointed that we didn't get one out of Jerry Falwell, and that Strom Thurmond's biracial bastard waited until after his death to come clean with the public - depriving us of our rightly deserved "how the fuck am I gonna explain this?" from Thurmond himself.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I dunno, I prefer a good ol' in-this-mortal-plane reawakening. I'm very disappointed that we didn't get one out of Jerry Falwell, and that Strom Thurmond's biracial bastard waited until after his death to come clean with the public - depriving us of our rightly deserved "how the fuck am I gonna explain this?" from Thurmond himself.[/quote]I literally cheered when I heard Falwell kicked the bucket. I was almost tempted to buy a giant statue of him, just so I could beat it with my shoes.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']I literally cheered when I heard Falwell kicked the bucket. I was almost tempted to buy a giant statue of him, just so I could beat it with my shoes.[/QUOTE]
Every so often I remember that Falwell is dead, and that makes me smile.
 
[quote name='SpazX']The $11 million is excessive, why not just a million bucks everytime these idiots do something like this? I think that would be a reasonable deterrant.[/quote]

That's a good idea. This ruling won't stop them, but you find them, I say 5 million dollars everytime they do this and they might get the hint.
 
First of all. Yes I blame the old people for taking away our sisters and brothers. That they pushed them into battle for no reason. Yes the United States did have a reason to invade IRAQ.

Just remember the reason why he launched a missle and I am not talking that midget guy at all.

A grieving father won a nearly $11 million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets military funerals in the belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality
Click to expand...

Look if you want to blame anybody then blame the parents. They are the ones who let there children become homosexauls. You think somebody got drunk and end up in the same gender or said we are going to be girlfreind and girlfreind is the way this thing started.

Yes they are cool to hang with but if it was my own child I would send there bags packing to timbuckto.

That is all you gotta know about the idea of homosexauls. Okay to be freinds with but not okay when it is your own child. It is like if I was on drugs and I am your freind but if it was my own child then I would wash there mouth out with soap.
 
Sorry to disagree but I think an "every time we do this we are going to more than bankrupt our church and we wont have any place to 'worship' or funds to buy construction paper, picket sticks and paint" message is a very strong deterrent indeed.

I do agree that you wont make them beleive that they're wrong but they sure as hell will be deterred from doing it again at other funerals if they know they'll bankrupt their church (and possibly risk individual personal liability) by doing it. This is just my opinion and no need to go into a long drawn out debate on whether deterrence exists again.
 
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