Good beginner RTS?

orbit18

orbit18

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I have played many RTS but I really, really suck at them! I got into the SC2 beta, but I suck at that too. Is there any rts that's quite easy to learn all the units and so on, or a good one to begin with?

List of RTS that I have or played:
Warcraft 3 FT
Company Of Heroes
C&C Tiberian Sun
LOTR Middle Earth
SC2 beta


I'm sure I've played more, but thats all I remember. I suck at each and every single one :D.
 
 
[quote name='orbit18']I have played many RTS but I really, really suck at them! I got into the SC2 beta, but I suck at that too. Is there any rts that's quite easy to learn all the units and so on, or a good one to begin with?

List of RTS that I have or played:
Warcraft 3 FT
Company Of Heroes
C&C Tiberian Sun
LOTR Middle Earth
SC2 beta


I'm sure I've played more, but thats all I remember. I suck at each and every single one :D.[/QUOTE]

How do you suck at them? Micro? Build order? You can generally get good at any game as long as you watch how skilled players play. And if we can pinpoint your weakness (something specific in which you suck at), we might be able to suggest a game that doesn't have that element.
 
Well, I can use an example. I play FPS usually, and regardless whether a new game or old game, you gain a universal skill of aiming most of the time. With RTS I don't really get how to mess around with the units and whats the best option, but I guess that just comes with watching other people play, and trying not to get obliterated online
.
 
[quote name='orbit18']Well, I can use an example. I play FPS usually, and regardless whether a new game or old game, you gain a universal skill of aiming most of the time. With RTS I don't really get how to mess around with the units and whats the best option, but I guess that just comes with watching other people play, and trying not to get obliterated online
.[/QUOTE]

Every RTS has something different to offer.

Some RTS games give you the ability to build up resources and get more units using those resources. Traditional RTS.

Some RTS games give you a specific amount of resources and/or units to use with little to no control over getting more. Squad based tactics.

Some RTS games are tower defense games. Where you use resources and units to defend your base...but mostly you are in one spot issuing orders.

Other RTS games are hybrids.

From the list I provided above I would try...

Rise and Fall: Civilizations At War - It's a standard RTS but allows you to control your leader/unit and play that unit like a third person action game when you want to get up close and personal. It has a tutorial that is very helpful and it's free :)

Base Invaders - Is more of a tower defense game where you use your units to defend your base from attacks. It gives you a lot of room for other moves but would teach you some good ideas of strategy that will be universal in all RTS you will ever play. It's also free :)

Savage and Savage 2 - This game you may be find easier to get up and running. It's a hybrid game that using RTS/FPS and Third Person Shooters all in one. You can join an online match and just play in FPS mode to test your skill and such. One of your teammates will be playing the game in an RTS format and give you rally points to defend and order you may chose to follow. The tutorial there is great also. It's also free.

I would check them each out they have reviews, system requirements and screenshots/videos for you see what they are about.

Everyone sucks in the beginning.
 
World in Conflict. I'd hardly call it an RTS as it has very limited resource management, almost zero micro required and in regular multiplayer games you usually only ever have 4 units. It's more of an action game really but it's damn good fun.
 
I don't see it get a lot of love, but I recommend the Dawn of War 2 series.

It gets rid of all the tediousness of building bases and you gather your resources by capturing points on a map to simply build your army to take other points and destroy the other person's starting area.

I recommend this because:
It removes the tedious "economy" aspect many RTS games have. This also simplifies the game for you making it easier to focus.
It lets you focus entirely on combat and tactics.
This makes the game entirely about fighting/defending points which means you get into the action very quickly.

I think its great, especially for beginners.
 
Are you trying to be good at multiplayer or single player? Just turn down the difficulty for single player and you might really suck at RTS to have much fun playing online.
 
My favorite RTS that has come out in ages was Warhammer 40k Dawn of War I + II. Both are extremely solid games, with a minimum of the build build build rush crap that most RTS games get into these days.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']I don't see it get a lot of love, but I recommend the Dawn of War 2 series.

It gets rid of all the tediousness of building bases and you gather your resources by capturing points on a map to simply build your army to take other points and destroy the other person's starting area.

I recommend this because:
It removes the tedious "economy" aspect many RTS games have. This also simplifies the game for you making it easier to focus.
It lets you focus entirely on combat and tactics.
This makes the game entirely about fighting/defending points which means you get into the action very quickly.

I think its great, especially for beginners.[/QUOTE]

I completely and totally agree. Those games were great.
 
[quote name='darthbudge']Age of Empires 2. A good RTS for beginner's and one of the best RTS games ever made.[/QUOTE]
Seconded. IIRC, this was my own first RTS.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']I don't see it get a lot of love, but I recommend the Dawn of War 2 series.

It gets rid of all the tediousness of building bases and you gather your resources by capturing points on a map to simply build your army to take other points and destroy the other person's starting area.

I recommend this because:
It removes the tedious "economy" aspect many RTS games have. This also simplifies the game for you making it easier to focus.
It lets you focus entirely on combat and tactics.
This makes the game entirely about fighting/defending points which means you get into the action very quickly.

I think its great, especially for beginners.[/QUOTE]

Forgot about DoW, also agree.
 
[quote name='Megazell']
MechCommander 1

MechCommander Gold

MechCommander 2
[/QUOTE]

I would hardly call it easy, but it doesn't have resource gathering. Once you get better, you try to not damage enemy mechs as much before the pilot ejects/dies, which allows you to salavage and sell them for more money, or repair them for your own use for less money.

There's a load of customization in it though, but it's also what makes it great.
 
Supreme Commander 2 is user friendly, and got rid of the ridiculous economy war in the first one. I love the first one for what it is, but the second one is ALOT easier to jump in and play.

First one could be hours long battles... the 2nd one, nothing lasts past 45 minutes... someone is going to lose in a half hour, or will know it by the time 45 minutes has passed.

Starcraft is an easy managed RTS, and you already know the mechanics because you played the sequel. NO difference there.

Total Annihilation is the cream of the crop for RTS. Pure build and destroy. Large armies, great maps, many enemies and fully modded and user made units if you dip into the aftermarket.

I always loved the Age of Empires series, and currently slogging through the 3rd one right now.... but I always heart the Age of Mythologies one just for that fantasy aspect, plus great seperation of the 4 factions when you have the Titans expansion. As always, the single player senarios for the Empire series rock, awesome stories.

RTS and RPGs are really my only games I play, I have a stint with FPSs, but hate all real war related games, last one was Section 8 which is good with friends.
 
All of the Warhammer 40000 games are very fun RTS games. Starcraft has a lot of influence from them if you liked starcraft.
 
Even though I hate to recommend a console RTS, you should try Halo Wars. Playing that game will give you a firm grasp on RTS's and how they work. It's not that complicated of an RTS, but it is fun and it is an easy way to learn how RTS's generally work. You don't want to start playing a complicated RTS right off the bat. StarCraft was my first RTS ever and let me tell you that I sucked hard at it for a while until I learned and it took me a while to learn how to play it.
 
[quote name='DarkRider23']Even though I hate to recommend a console RTS, you should try Halo Wars. Playing that game will give you a firm grasp on RTS's and how they work. It's not that complicated of an RTS, but it is fun and it is an easy way to learn how RTS's generally work. You don't want to start playing a complicated RTS right off the bat. StarCraft was my first RTS ever and let me tell you that I sucked hard at it for a while until I learned and it took me a while to learn how to play it.[/QUOTE]

That's incorrect. The first RTS game to come out was back in 1983. Prior to that they were all table top games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_strategy
 
I never cared for an RTS before Red Alert 2. I tried it once before and didn't care for it, I never found them terribly exciting, coupled with the fact I generally stink at them. CivRev, while admittedly turn-based, was my first great strategy love, and that compelled me to try RA2 once again, and I basically ran straight out and bought it.
 
[quote name='DarkRider23']StarCraft was MY first RTS ever. It was the first RTS I ever played, not that came out :p.[/QUOTE]

Damn my engrish! LOL ;)
 
Playing online, you will often find others will be better than you. What I would do is try to find a friend that's new to the game, and then you can improve equally. Although... getting a friend into the Starcraft 2 beta could be a problem ;)

I suggest reading some competitive guides before you jump away from Starcraft 2. Nothing brings you up to par than a good ole competitive guide.

Familiarizing yourself with the first Starcraft would be beneficial as well. It would give you a chance to get a feel of the pace of the game, without being overly discouraged by online opponents. You would be able to take as much time as you needed to actually learn how to play competitively. Sure the units and such would be different, but the core aspects of the game are still there, and they're just as important, if not more.
 
You should probably play the game you want to get better at. If you want to get better at SC2, then play SC2.

There is a bit that carries over from RTS to RTS, but it's more worthwhile to invest your time in the one you want to play. I played Company of Heroes quite a bit before SC2 came out, and nothing really carries over from that game.
 
Heroes of Newerth!
... o_o


No, the community will destroy newbies.

I'd recommend Warcraft III. Not my first RTS, but one that actually helped me learn.
You can play the campaign mode and it teaches you the basics.
 
[quote name='kainzero']You should probably play the game you want to get better at. If you want to get better at SC2, then play SC2.[/QUOTE]

This. Not much carries from one RTS to the next, imo. Even Warcraft and Starcraft don't carry too much if you think about it.

In Warcraft, you generally have peons at the gold mine so that there's always one in there, and you don't have a bunch of them hanging out outside the mine.

In Starcraft, you usually put 2 SCV/drone/probe per mineral, and do roughly the same thing for vespene gas as you do for Warcraft mines... And this is with two games from the same people on just gathering basic resources!

In FPS, all you do is find a gun and aim. There's not much difference going from game to game, other than learning the map, unless you play something like... I don't know, MAG.

(Disclaimer: I've never played MAG. I've not played StarCraft II. I didn't finish WarCraft III because I didn't like it compared to WarCraft/WarCraft II and StarCraft. Got through about 3/5 of the game, and didn't touch Frozen Throne except for tower defense maps. It's been years since I played RTS, or any game for that matter, competitively. And MechCommander is awesome.)
 
Looks like OP abandoned this thread. We still don't know if it is the single player or multiplayer he sucks at.
 
[quote name='laaj']Looks like OP abandoned this thread. We still don't know if it is the single player or multiplayer he sucks at.[/QUOTE]

Obviously, he's bad at multiplayer :cool:
 
[quote name='laaj']Looks like OP abandoned this thread. We still don't know if it is the single player or multiplayer he sucks at.[/QUOTE]
The single person campaign for SCII isn't available in the beta, is it?
 
[quote name='Lawyers Guns N Money']The single person campaign for SCII isn't available in the beta, is it?[/QUOTE]

It's MP only, but there are people out there coding bot hacks for the game for SP vs. cpu goodness.
 
[quote name='laaj']Looks like OP abandoned this thread. We still don't know if it is the single player or multiplayer he sucks at.[/QUOTE]


I didn't abandon, just busy with work and school. :( I read most of the responses and I suck at multiplayer! In SC2, I get obliterated fairly quick. I have WC3 and FT so I might start on those all over, because I played a few missions and never went back. So I think I'll stick to single player for now, and eventually when I find a game I enjoy to play as RTS, I'll stick with that one as my primary. Love reading all the opinions though, because I have several RTS but never play too much of them.
 
Just stick with SC2 or WC3. Don't worry about the single player unless you want the story -- playing single player won't help you in multiplayer, they're very different, and multiplayer is a much more rewarding experience.

When new, don't expect to win many of you games. Nobody wins many games when new. Just stick with it.. watch replays.. get better.. don't get discouraged by losses. If you get dominated, save the replay and watch it from the other person's view, and try to emulate what they did. It's worth the effort. Persevere.




Specific tips...

(a) understand the tech trees. You should be able to judge the situation and know what you want. E.g. "this guy is building a lot of defense... I want siege tanks" you shouldn't then have to think "wait, what buildings do I need to make siege tanks?" or you'll waste too much in-game time. If you ever find yourself even a little unsure of how to tech up to what you want, you should devote some time to studying the tech tree. Understanding other race's tech trees is important too, because you need to be able to scout their base, see a building, and assume what they're gonna get... E.g. "ancient of lores, no huntresses... this guy's probably teching to bears, I'm gonna make some air."

(b) understand unit counters. Self explanatory -- this just takes experience.

(c) keep a balanced economy. This is a lot harder than it sounds, most newbs fail to do it. It's common for newbs to save up a bit (often unintentionally, as they get distracted and forget to train) then amass their army all at once, that's wrong. All game, you should try to keep as much of your resources spent as possible, with a steady stream of unit production. The goal is to have just enough unit-producing capability to keep all of your resources spent. There are exceptions for certain builds, but for low-level play this is a good goal. If you're amassing your army slow and steady throughout the game and apply pressure, you will almost always beat players who do the save-and-spend thing.




(d) is learn hotkeys, get comfortable with hotkeys. I'm making this sort of a separate point because it's so important. The first three above are more "learn how the game is designed", and this point is more "get comfortable with the game's controls" Learning how the game is designed comes first, but I'd say this (control) is more important.

(1) All building and training should be done with hotkeys. If you have to click "Build Structure", click "Altar of Heroes", then place it, you're wasting time. B-A-Click will save you a few seconds. Stuff like that adds up a lot over the course of a game. Learn all the common build/train/skill hotkeys of your primary race, and use them.

(2) Control groups should help you access buildings without moving the screen to your base. Highlight two barracks, hold control and press the 9 key, now anytime you press '9' you'll have selected your two barracks. Now, say you're attacking your opponent and the battle needs your attention... well, all you have to do to train marines is press 9-A, you can keep the screen focused on the battle. If you do this and your opponent doesn't, you'll have gained a pretty big advantage as their unit production was idle during the battle and yours wasn't, or else they had to lose focus of the battle to train.

(3) Micromanaging during battles should involve lots of keyboard use. Micromanagement -- 'dancing' damaged units, focus-firing their weak units, etc -- is more important in WC than SC, but important in both and one of the hardest aspects to master. This is the active part of the game, reflex-oriented. A lot of newbs just attack-move and don't micromanage much... that's fine for beginners, but good micromanagement can easily make or break a battle. The most basic example is to imagine 10 Marines vs 10 Marines -- one group attack-moves, the other focus-fires one Marine at a time, the focus-firing group will certainly win. It should make sense, but if not just think about it. Your units should all be assigned to different control groups to help with this. If you've got 10 Marines and 10 Marauders, assign each to their own control group... highlight Marines and Ctrl+1, highlight Marauders and Ctrl+2, then if you see Roaches you can just press 2-T to stim your Marauders, press 1 and right click to retreat the marines a bit... that sort of maneuver would be cumbersome without the hotkeys.
 
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I love a recommend the Age of Empires series as well. But it does focus on building an economy, if that isn't your thing...
 
starcraft was my first RTS I really got into, after Warcraft II, but those are good ones IMO.. do campaigns, that will help and then just play multiplayer, you'll learn a lot haha
 
I think you guys are picking far to complicated ones to start. I would recomend some of the oldies with one resource and simple rock paper scissors gameplay. Age of Empires: Wonderfull RTS, but not only do you resource manage food/rock/gold/timber, your work force is very important.. while i agree its a great learning one, I dont think its the best first one.

I would go back, the graphics are ugly but DUNE II (still my all time favorite, but pretty simple nowdays) or Warcraft. Dune II has one resource and really teachs how easy it is to be shut down if you cut off the resources. Warcraft adds 2 resources... Tis purely from a learning standpoint, the interface is clunky, the gameplay is simple.

I do agree, Starcraft may be the single best "overall" one to get a grasp on. It has almost ever thing that makes a RTS good, non mirror units, rock/paper/scissor. Always a counter to whatever the other guys does. learning to use different types of units instead of the "tank rushs" the early games where so famous for.

I think in the end the COH RTS is about the best "balance" and one of the most fun.

I cant imagine people who dont enjoy or play RTS's, they may be my favorite game genre. I think i have played almost every one made (many horrible ones, even more so-so ones and some good, and a couple great ones).

As for multi play, no amount of single play can prepare you for the smake down you will get in Multi. As somebody said, single play and multi are completely different. If you want to play multi you need to learn every Hotkey by heart, be able to manage units in the mini map as well as the full map, basicly you have to make two hands do what it should take 4 hands to do. Reaction time is important, unit makeup is important, build rate, build order, owning certian parts of maps at certian times, cutting off map, worker rushes, turtleing up, choke points, defence, offece.. and about 100 more things i forget. Once you get good at multi, single play is worthless :( enjoy the dingle play days!
 
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