Gran Turismo 5 - 1000+ Cars! - 1/6: GT5 XL Edition w/DLC & Spec 2.0 - 1/17 - $39.99

Well, I sat down and played a couple of hours last night. It was my first real chance to play (alone). The holidays were busy and other people were fooling around in arcade mode. I managed to gold all the B and A License tests. I also got through the intermediate classes in both karting and nascar. I really have enjoyed both of those modes thus far. Nascar is a blast because it feels so hectic. It sounds strange to say, but I'm really looking forward to some long, tough, oval races. I'm nearly complete with the Beginner Races in A-Spec. This has been the least exciting thus far but I am sure it will perk up.

I have been fooling around with head tracking and I can't say that I am happy with it yet. I'm not sure if it is my setup or not. I have a G27 coupled with a WheelStandPro and I have mounted the playstation eye on the top of the gear shift to the right of the steering wheel. Looking left is very responsive and is enjoyable. However; looking right is not as responsive and I'm beginning to think the EYE needs to be dead 12 O'clock to be most effective. Even if I do managed to concoct some sort of mount at 12 o'clock, I'm not sure if I want that bright blue and red light messing with my "racer vision". As of right now, the EYE is about 2.5 feet away from my head and about 30 degrees from center in case anyone is concerned about a PS Eye mount.

My first real taste of the GT series was GT5P and I while I enjoyed it, it felt so limited that I got bored and quit playing. The online was terrible and there were 5 tracks. Cars are cool, but variety and choices are cooler. GT5, imo, completely eliminates that feeling this go round. There is always something new to go do which is going to make this game a lot of fun for a long time. In fact, I really wish I was home playing right now instead of working.

On the other hand, I'm a little underwhelmed by the graphics. I was sort expecting an upgrade from GT5P and I would most consider GT5 a downgrade in a lot of areas. The shadows are worse, the screen tearing is worse, and the courses look plasticky. The cars look great and I really enjoy all of the weather effects (even the rain) and even the grass effects when running off the road look good. Those I would consider and upgrade. Things like no falling leaves on Autumn Ring is kind of lame. I mean, the PS3 should be able to do this stuff. Petty- I know, but this game took a long time to make and autumn leaves do actually fall. I know it isn't a tree simulator but it is very irritating. I remember a Colin McCrae Xbox game that had fallling leaves and it really polished the course. Sometimes I just question whether they had enough people working on the less important stuff in the game (crowd detail, leaves, etc).

Lastly, the sound is incredible. I'm not sure what type of sound system you guys are using but there are quite a few options available for sounds. I initially thought it was a little absent for a LPCM 7.1 system but then I went and tweaked the setting to a Small Home Theater and 7.1 and then the game started rumbling. It is really cool hearing another car's engine come in from its own discreet channel and gradually make harmony with your own engine. This really the first time I've noticeably made use of my 7.1 setup and it is impressive.


[quote name='iwannadie']I had a hard time with the VW bus race I was getting frustrated but kept at it and eventually got my passing zones down. I was able to brake late and slide right past 1 or 2 at a time in certain spots.[/QUOTE]

I just tried this race once last night and as soon as I saw those cones, I was like fuck- this is gonna take a while. These things are slow and big.

I'm not enjoying getting used to racing bump free and cone free but I know that in the long run, I will be a lot better racer because of it. This also was a detractor from GT5P; not really learning how to drive. In hindsight; GT5P was probably the worst GT to start with. Oh well. GT5 is here and it is a lot of fun. If anyone wants to add me, my PSN tag is Jugsta. I'm pretty noob but I have a wheel and like to race clean. Thanks for reading this rant.
 
One thing I have to say that I am anticipating but will not do until my wheel arrives - the Laguna Seca race with pickups. This has always been one of my favorite tracks simply for that blind over-the-hill S curve that I always seem to take too fast. I am trying to imagine how I am going to keep a pickup on the track there.

Got the DFGT coming this week...we shall see who gets to use it more....dad or the 4 year old....the scary part is he actually steers pretty well....now if he can just reach the pedals.
 
Ahh, Gt 5 after playing you for a few hours, you feel just like my old girlfriend. You do feel familiar, but you've also put on a few pounds, even though you did put on some lipstick before coming over.

Same old game, with same old faults, just nicer to look at. Yes, I know I will irritate some people with those comments, but hey this was fresh back in the 90s when I paid to import the Japanese version of Gran Turismo because I hated the music in the U.S. version. Perhaps the team needs some new blood, but a reboot is in order...OR maybe I just don't care for that old girlfriend (anymore).
 
[quote name='jughead']I just tried this race once last night and as soon as I saw those cones, I was like fuck- this is gonna take a while. These things are slow and big.

I'm not enjoying getting used to racing bump free and cone free but I know that in the long run, I will be a lot better racer because of it. This also was a detractor from GT5P; not really learning how to drive. In hindsight; GT5P was probably the worst GT to start with. Oh well. GT5 is here and it is a lot of fun. If anyone wants to add me, my PSN tag is Jugsta. I'm pretty noob but I have a wheel and like to race clean. Thanks for reading this rant.[/QUOTE]
You can still bump people, you just have to be softer about it. I know in the A10 License test I knocked the yellow car right out of the way with a soft bump on the rear driver's side of his bumper. You can even slide right into people, just don't slide past them while rubbing. In some cases it's refined brutality and I like it. I can see why people are just doing the oval tracks in NASCAR cars because bump drafting is evil and you can take somebody out really gently instead of having to T bone them.
 
@Jughead - Well said and thanks for the audio tip. I initially planned on getting an upgraded audio environment for the game but was dissuaded after reading all the complaints about audio.

[quote name='dragonjud']Ahh, Gt 5 after playing you for a few hours, you feel just like my old girlfriend. You do feel familiar, but you've also put on a few pounds, even though you did put on some lipstick before coming over.[/QUOTE]

:rofl: That's pretty good.
 
So this is my first GT game ever. My interest in racers are more toward arcade titles like Mario Kart, blur, burnout, etc...

So I did not know what to really expect. This is a more true to life race car game...but thats a given. I really like that aspect. I am not a car buff, so I do not know what even some of the simplest stuff does in a car...like a carberator..etc.

That shows you, how much of a car noob I am. So going in to this game is like learning a whole new different language.

I am on my second day of playing, and its pretty cool how many different things there are to do. This game is like a masochists wet dream...Getting those golds are very infuriating and extremely challenging, but when you perfect that course it feels so rewarding. Its like some Sonic games where you have to know the course, you mess up, but if you perfect the jumps and spins, you feel so free.

The game also...Looks so beautiful; there are some iffy textures here and there, but when its all in motion, it is negligible.
 
What is the limit on custom soundtracks? How many minutes of tracks can you put on a playlist before it doesn't work. I just found some ill mp3's on the bayontop.com. Been looking for over a decade for some of these tracks and now i got em all.
 
[quote name='Mr. 420']What is the limit on custom soundtracks? How many minutes of tracks can you put on a playlist before it doesn't work. I just found some ill mp3's on the bayontop.com. Been looking for over a decade for some of these tracks and now i got em all.[/QUOTE]
I dropped the whole flash drive from my car into my PS3, skipped the playlist(just change the play mode to all songs) and hit shuffle.
 
From gtplanet.net (via Kazunori-san's Twitter page)...

* Flexible camera angles and “dynamic and wide-area lighting needs” are to blame for the sometimes blocky shadows. Yamauchi admits they are a problem and wants to improve them.
* Yamauchi appears to consider the possibility of removing the in-game HUD (heads-up-display features) at some point in the future.
* To unlock the Red Bull X1, you’ll need to complete the “Sebastian Vettel Challenge”, which appears at Level 30.
* Online “lounge” functionality and other features will be added “one by one”.
* Polyphony Digital continues to work on fully supporting the Logitech G25 and G27, though Yamauchi admits he would like a “new steering device soon”…
* Mechanical damage options will be implemented in a new update for GT5 coming “early December”.
* As you may know, many players noticed that GT5’s face-tracking functionality only worked in Arcade mode. According to Yamauchi, it’s not available in GT mode due to memory issues with the PS3.
* In-game rewards (such as the monetary prize in GT5 Prologue) for your performance in online events is something Polyphony Digital is considering, and may be implemented in a future update.
* Gran Turismo 5’s official, 2-disc sound-track will be released soon.
* Yamauchi wanted to implement a “free roam” gameplay mode in GT5, where players could drive around, respecting speed limits and obeying traffic laws, and even exit the car to walk around and explore the environment on foot.
* The YouTube replay upload feature had to be pulled from the final version of the game because it took a very long time to render and it consumed too much memory. Yamauchi is still considering it, however.
Click to expand...


http://www.gtplanet.net/yamauchi-on-gt5s-mechanical-damage-updates-more/
 
I hopped into my first real online lobby and the race was 220 hp and under. I dumbed down my mm-R cup car by 7 hp, raced and got second. Second race the guy said 300 is the limit, I couldn't figure wtf was wrong with my car last race. Turns out for whatever reason your offline specs are what you revert to, you have to manually change your tires and bump up your transmission. So found all that, fixed it, ran my mm-R with my soft racing tires and I drafted to a nice .150 second win from behind the next race. Definitely had a ton of fun, a couple of quotes from the set of races were great.

Host: Play nice or I'll put you into a wall.
Guy wipes out.
Host: ... Or you could do it yourself.

It's amazing the quality of drivers out there. It's going to be an AWESOME experience.
 
Man, online play with random people is super balls. Especially NASCAR.

I got booted because I happened to get caught up in three wrecks. First time two cars clipped each other in front of me, and I was unlucky. Second time, somebody spun out way in front of me, took me out because he wasn't staying low, and then people were pissed because I hadn't gotten low yet. Third time, somebody got free and spun out directly in front of me without me tapping him at all, I got caught up, stayed low, got blamed for fucking nothing, and got booted.

On top of people not being able to keep their shit together with NASCAR, people are dicks. General online gameplay can fuck right off. I hope CAG nights are better. I've never been part of a CAG night before. I hope it's friendlier than this.

I hope those dickheads run a replay and watch the part where Jr. got loose in front of me, and there was nothing I could do about it.
 
Man, I'm still pissed off about that. If I were Kyle Busch, I'd be telling the NASCAR official he's number 1 right now.
 
Online play is terrible for me. I have not been able to play one match, I always get booted or the games never connect.

Despite that fact, I am not too worried...tbh, the cpu races are already hard enough for me... :(
 
I have to wait for my wheel before more Nascar racing...gold and silver, but that second test was very frustrating with the controller. It was like trying to take an S curve at 80 with a bus without going off-road.
 
Photomode is sick!


bernmarketstreet0.jpg


Full Image

Off to Atankt airport?

clubmanstageroute55.jpg



Full Res pic
 
Just a little fair warning, I didn't run into it with lower horsepower cars(sub 200) but the higher in horse and torque you go, the more you're going to have to keep an eye on your suspension and LSD. This only applies if you care about cornering at relatively stupid speeds.

I was using my Supra for B-Spec and my driver pretty much demolished everybody until he spun out twice and came in second his last race, leading up to that I slowly started adding more mods. I did the Chasis Rigidity mod(strut tower bar basically) and some lightweight stuff along with retweaking the suspension for the tires. At that point I decided to hop into the car and put it on the same track at obviously much higher speeds than my driver would. Somewhere along the way I picked up a crap ton of understeer I'm directly attributing to my LSD since this car has more torque than horsepower, it's very noticeable.

I've had torque steer but it wasn't until I went below 1510 kilos to 1280 and did I start to notice a decline in my drivers ability. The extra weight help keeps the torque in check and doesn't trip your LSD as often(since it doesn't lose traction as often with extra weight holding it down). If you're going to hop into a big bitch, just be prepared that if you slim her down and make her meaner, you're going to have to deal with a lot of attitude. That or don't install an LSD in a FR car, it's not like you need the understeer unless your oversteer is truly that terrible(I'm looking at you McLaren F1 Stealth).
 
So far I'm quite impressed by the frequency of the patches. On one hand it exposes that PD still wasn't done but on the other it shows their willingness to support GT5. (hopefully that'll last)

It's funny to hear console-centric gamers bitch about patches and installs. I'd rather have a patch every single damn day if things are being fixed and content is being added. Microsoft has certainly spoiled people with their fantastic tiny/fast title updates but even the 50 minute installs and 5-10 minute patches on the PS3 are nowhere near that of what goes on in the PC realm. (download/patch an MMO for 8+ hours and then get back to me about 50 mins :razz:)

I am not into cars or sim racing in the least and I have to wholly disagree with people who claim that those are a requirement for liking the GT games. I love RPGs and the GT games have always been RPGs to me...the paced upgrades, the stats and variables, and now yummy yummy leveling? It's an RPG damnit and no one can convince me otherwise.:bouncy:
 
My online experience was just plain weird today.

My first race was against this weird guy that kept on lagging out. He was putting himself in the wall and driving slowly as far as I could see. Even though my hefty NASCAR could have wiped the floor with his Corvette if we were having a non-lagged race, he somehow finished 10 seconds ahead of me. I'm wondering if he was using a lag switch, but that still doesn't explain how he finished so far ahead.

Then I went the longest time just trying to find a race. I think I only saw one other car, in the free-run time trial, that wasn't weird in some way. We bumped back and forth for a little bit, and then he took himself out. This seems to be a theme with other people and NASCAR cars. I, on the other hand, saved myself gloriously after he bumped me into the grass.

Then I went looking for a DeLorean race, and everybody was just doing free run stuff. Nobody wanted to race. Except for this one race where the only other two drivers inexplicably decided to quit halfway through the first lap.

It's like everybody's high and/or has a bad connection.
 
I'm having an issue where my X button on the controller isn't working when I'm driving. It works via the XMB, and via the GT5 game menus but for some reason today, the X (acceleration) button is not working. Anyone else have that issue? I saw that some one posted a similar issue on a playstation forum. The fix was that the user had to restart the Playstation. I'm going to restart and see if it works for me.
 
I'm probably overlooking something very simple, but please still inform me: Is there a way to do a search in the dealership for specific criteria like HP or drivetrain? I feel like I'm spending about as much time in the GT Mode menu and race requirements menu trying to find a car that will satisfy the race requirements.
 
[quote name='Fell Open Ian']

I am not into cars or sim racing in the least and I have to wholly disagree with people who claim that those are a requirement for liking the GT games. I love RPGs and the GT games have always been RPGs to me...the paced upgrades, the stats and variables, and now yummy yummy leveling? It's an RPG damnit and no one can convince me otherwise.:bouncy:[/QUOTE]

That's how I've always felt.

Start as a weakling, gather some money/exp, then buy the expensive high-powered shit and pwn.
 
I raced these classic car races last night. It's two races in the Expert events section of A-Spec. I used the craziest car ever, the Chapparel 2J race car.

This thing looks like a refridgerator laid on it's side, with a washer and dryer strapped to the back of it. The description says that it had a second engine, a snowmobile engine, that was used to suck the air out from under the car. In this way the car 'sticks' to the road with vacuum power! Craziest thing I think I've ever drivin in a GT game.
 
[quote name='SteveMcQ']I'm probably overlooking something very simple, but please still inform me: Is there a way to do a search in the dealership for specific criteria like HP or drivetrain? I feel like I'm spending about as much time in the GT Mode menu and race requirements menu trying to find a car that will satisfy the race requirements.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, there is no sorting at the used dealer currently except by new arrivals(aka Just In) and by Price. It'd be nice if they patched that in though. If I don't see anything I like in the Used dealer I just do a quick circuit of 3 races since it adds 6 cars every time you race, so 18 new used cars show up and I just sort of sift through it that way. Depending on which row of 3 the car you want is in, you have 4 or less races to run to get the money to purchase it.

So far I've purchased on impulse a GNX, 2nd gen Supra, 1st gen Supra, a Nismo 270R and F-150 Lightning, mostly because I'm not sure if I'll see another GNX or a Nismo 270R(which I'm still not sure why I bought it).
[quote name='Puffa469']I raced these classic car races last night. It's two races in the Expert events section of A-Spec. I used the craziest car ever, the Chapparel 2J race car.

This thing looks like a refridgerator laid on it's side, with a washer and dryer strapped to the back of it. The description says that it had a second engine, a snowmobile engine, that was used to suck the air out from under the car. In this way the car 'sticks' to the road with vacuum power! Craziest thing I think I've ever drivin in a GT game.[/QUOTE]
I want to drive that car, I've only seen it once in the used Dealer. I definitely didn't have enough money for it at the time with buying cars for races, tuning and impulse purchases. The whole thing is pretty awesome, I loved the story in the description about it.
 
I saw Jay Leno's Tank Car in the used section yesterday, 3+ million credits.

License A-3 is gonna be a doozy to get gold on.


Anyone have problems with the game not saving times or even for that matter gold medals for licenses? I had to repeat A-2 for gold.
 
[quote name='j-cart']I saw Jay Leno's Tank Car in the used section yesterday, 3+ million credits.

License A-3 is gonna be a doozy to get gold on.

Anyone have problems with the game not saving times or even for that matter gold medals for licenses? I had to repeat A-2 for gold.[/QUOTE]
If you exit to the home section of GT5, it'll save. I had to repeat B5 and realized that I must have simply shut down(automatically, 1 hour timer) or quit before saving. Autosave will save when you get to the main menu every time.

Also updated the Primer again for anybody interested with some additional info on B-Spec, specifically added Endurance, Driver Growth and expanded on Overtaking, I need more data for Driver Growth overall though. Also changed the colors around and bolded stuff to make it easier to read or identify what is personality affected.
 
[quote name='m_d_amore']I wonder if the used dealerships are synced or is it random for everyone[/QUOTE]

It's random, if somebody didn't have PSN then they wouldn't be able to get used cars if it was sync. Also my brother and I have different used cars while playing on the PS3.
 
Anybody have any tips on countering the torque steer on the McLaren F1 Stealth? I sort of have it halfway handled but the thing torques steers like a pissed off girlfriend who has you by the balls and decides to squeeze every time I step on the gas while taking a corner.

I've managed to tweak the LSD Initial Torque way up, zero out the Toe on the rear tires(helped a ton), played around with the suspension to get it somewhat steadier but the torque just spins my tires when I hit the gas. I even resorted to throwing on ASM and that's helpful but now I can't swing bitch's ass out at the expense of not spinning out the rear wheels I think I'm going to have to give the rear some negative Toe. I can't believe how hard it is just to make this car drivable in anything but straights.
 
[quote name='jello44']Wasn't that Chapparel in GT4 as well? I remember reading about that somewhere with that exact description.[/QUOTE]

I think the entire used car selection is from GT4. I think that any of the 800 'Standard' cars can randomly appear in the used section.

I never saw the Chapparel in GT4 becuase thats the GT game I played least.
 
I got a questions, do you always get special cars or something if you shoot

for gold on all events????????


Where exactly do you find "CLASSIC" Japan cars?, their is an event in the

beginner section that asks for classic Japan cars but I don't where to

get them, I go to the dealership and I see just new cars there.



Can you keep earning money over and over in a single event?, like if I can

repeat an event that gives me 9,000 over and over that would give me

quite the amount of money, is that even possible?.
 
Older cars you generall find at the used dealership. The flaw with this game is that the used dealership appears to be random, and new cars are available after every race. New cars are the same as "premium" cars and they may be old "new" cars. For example, the 1970 Dodge challenger is sold at the new dealership.

You can repeat races over and over for money, however this does not work for special events as far as I know. Also, you do get a special car for getting all golds in a race series. You even get cars for getting bronze/silver/gold in the license tests.
 
[quote name='Killagamer']I got a questions, do you always get special cars or something if you shoot

for gold on all events????????


Where exactly do you find "CLASSIC" Japan cars?, their is an event in the

beginner section that asks for classic Japan cars but I don't where to

get them, I go to the dealership and I see just new cars there.



Can you keep earning money over and over in a single event?, like if I can

repeat an event that gives me 9,000 over and over that would give me

quite the amount of money, is that even possible?.[/QUOTE]

Yes you get a prize car for Golding an event. For license tests, you can win three different cars, one for all bronze, silver, gold respectively.

Classic cars can be found in the used section. The selection is random, and a 6 new cars are added each time you race, do a license test, or otherwise load up a track. You don't even have to race, you can load a race, quit out, and you'll have 6 new used cars to choose from.

You absolutely can re-race events to win more cash. You can't get prize cars more than once, but you can win the cash over and over. In fact, one of the criticisms of the game is the lack of unique events. To get to higher levels you NEED to grind events repeatedly to earn more XP.

And of course, you can always use the Birthday trick.
 
Things i noticed playing last night were major screen tearing in Rome, when i look in reverse my muscle car sounds like a rice rocket, and traction control is trash. It really upsets me that games like this and RDR have training wheels as the default controls settings. I just don't get it.
 
Anybody have a Blue or Silver mm-R cup car they may want to trade for my Yellow one? It's completely modded, so I'll take on the expense of modding yours if it's not. I just really like the Blue and/or Silvers. I'll gladly take a donation though.
 
[quote name='Mad39er']Anybody have a Blue or Silver mm-R cup car they may want to trade for my Yellow one? It's completely modded, so I'll take on the expense of modding yours if it's not. I just really like the Blue and/or Silvers. I'll gladly take a donation though.[/QUOTE]

Dude - you're more of a freak than I am. :) Let me check the color on mine....are you saying dark or light blue? I cannot remember what color mine is, but I think either light blue or silver.
 
:wall:

Spent around 2 hrs on the second beginner AMG Nurburgring Challange last night. I then spent around an hour on the IC Cone license test. Golded both :)
 
[quote name='jmbreci']Dude - you're more of a freak than I am. :) Let me check the color on mine....are you saying dark or light blue? I cannot remember what color mine is, but I think either light blue or silver.[/QUOTE]
The one Blue car was either 38 or 63 for a number. I think the Silver was a 63. I can't help it, it's not even like a bad yellow, I just really liked the Silver and Blue ones I saw in the One Make Race I did in Practice Mode. I can't even repaint it, which is sucky.

I did pick up a turbo'd 97 MR2 which I think is pretty rare, awesome car for cheap too. I'm going to have to repaint it since it came in like a burnt orange that is just horrible, but finding a turbo'd MR2 was hard enough so I couldn't pass it up.

By the way, did you get a chance to watch the replay clip? I'm in no rush for a return on the video but I figured I'd just get your impressions on my crappy driving that day. It's definitely not indicative of the rest of my driving but it's just hard to start that the way I did and care about neatness for the rest of the race, the front end was caved in already, lol.
 
[quote name='daphatty']Ok. The Test Track events can eat a bowl of dicks. There is no way a Lotus Elise handles so poorly...[/QUOTE]
I'm purposely staying away from the Top Gear stuff. It doesn't hurt that every time I scrounge up 50 grand there are like 1 to 3 cars that I want to buy that show up in the Used dealership out of nowhere.

Today's pickups are...
Clio Renault Sport V6 24V '00
Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
Caterham Seven Fireblade '02
Lotus Elise Sport 190 '98
Toyota MR2 GT-S '97
Lotus Elise Type 72 '01

Really looking forward to dicking around with the Fireblade.
 
[quote name='daschrier']Older cars you generall find at the used dealership. The flaw with this game is that the used dealership appears to be random, and new cars are available after every race. New cars are the same as "premium" cars and they may be old "new" cars. For example, the 1970 Dodge challenger is sold at the new dealership.

You can repeat races over and over for money, however this does not work for special events as far as I know. Also, you do get a special car for getting all golds in a race series. You even get cars for getting bronze/silver/gold in the license tests.[/QUOTE]

Thanks I was wondering where the classic Japan cars were for that beginner event, if it is random though it is kinda weird why not let me buy them right away since that beginner event is not even a high level event.

Oh well thanks for the break down, only time I had to spend money on a cars performance so far was on the YARIS event, new engine and turbo kick did the trick.


btw I got a LANCER 07 all hooked up and it was accept in a event in the beginner section I felt like I cheated LOL, I left them all behind in the first few seconds of the race.
 
[quote name='Mad39er']I'm purposely staying away from the Top Gear stuff. It doesn't hurt that every time I scrounge up 50 grand there are like 1 to 3 cars that I want to buy that show up in the Used dealership out of nowhere.

Today's pickups are...
Clio Renault Sport V6 24V '00
Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
Caterham Seven Fireblade '02
Lotus Elise Sport 190 '98
Toyota MR2 GT-S '97
Lotus Elise Type 72 '01

Really looking forward to dicking around with the Fireblade.[/QUOTE]



I think for those people need to use DRIVING AIDS, I know some people like to play without them but if is giving you stress then your not having fun, so what's the point?, just use driving aids and patience then pass them.
 
[quote name='Killagamer']I think for those people need to use DRIVING AIDS, I know some people like to play without them but if is giving you stress then your not having fun, so what's the point?, just use driving aids and patience then pass them.[/QUOTE]

They're turned off on the special events and License tests I believe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top