Has SEGA's Sonic Team completely lost their touch?

R

Ruined

CAGiversary!
From gamerankings.com...

Sonic Adventure DC - 8/31/99 - 88%
Sonic Adventure 2 DC - 6/18/01 - 84%
Sonic Heroes XBX - 1/27/04 - 74%
Sonic the Hedgehog X360 - 11/14/06 - 52%

Phantasy Star Online DC - 1/29/01 - 89%
Phantasy Star Online Ep1&2 XBX - 4/15/03 - 82%
Phantasy Star Universe X360 - 10/25/06 - 67%

What the hell happened to Sonic Team?
 
Yes... I think it all started with Sonic Adventure... that game was awful and Sonic Team continued to get worse and worse after that.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Yes... I think it all started with Sonic Adventure... that game was awful and Sonic Team continued to get worse and worse after that.[/quote]Sonic Adventure DC? That game was fucking awsome
 
Personally, I don't think a 3-d sonic "works", and I refuse to pay a monthly fee for phantasy star. These review scores show that I'm not alone.

Anyways, where the hell is the followup to Nights?
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Yes... I think it all started with Sonic Adventure... that game was awful and Sonic Team continued to get worse and worse after that.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Sonic Adventure was absolutely horrible, as was everything since, amongst a sea of Sonic Adventure rehashes and re-releases.

I liked Phantasy Star Online, but - at the same time- - I don't like Phantasy Star Universe because it's too much like Phantasy Star Online, which is probably one of the many reasons the new Sonic title is absolute shit.
 
yeah, why dont they make a next generation sonic with amazing graphics but with 2-d play mechanics in the lines of viewtiful joe, or new super mario bros. and focus on great play mechanics? they attempted this on the DS and it turned out great, imagine it on an XBOX 360!
 
[quote name='pop311']Sonic Adventure DC? That game was fucking awsome[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Sonic Adventure 1 on DC was amazing. You have to wonder WTF has gone on with Sonic Team's talent since then.
 
[quote name='Brak']Yeah. Sonic Adventure was absolutely horrible, as was everything since, amongst a sea of Sonic Adventure rehashes and re-releases.

I liked Phantasy Star Online, but - at the same time- - I don't like Phantasy Star Universe because it's too much like Phantasy Star Online, which is probably one of the many reasons the new Sonic title is absolute shit.[/QUOTE]

I think its more than just that the games are similar - I *loved* Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast and Phantasy Star Online, and I honestly would have been happy with the same gameplay mechanics with just new maps/creatures/items added. But instead it seems Sonic Team made some major changes to the gameplay of both series for the worse.
 
Sonic shouldn't be having "adventures"... just levels. And just Sonic. Maybe 1 other person. Fast awesome levels.

But none of this Sonic and Friends bullshit.
 
It's like Castlevania. Some series are just meant to stay 2-D. But I'm sure they do some 'focus group' bulls*** and then Shadow the Hedgehog sells (relatively) well, and their stubborn insistence on continuing to make 3-D Sonic is validated for yet another console generation.

Oh, and some of the greats just lose it. Also see: U2, The Simpsons.
 
[quote name='[email protected]']yeah, why dont they make a next generation sonic with amazing graphics but with 2-d play mechanics in the lines of viewtiful joe, or new super mario bros. and focus on great play mechanics? they attempted this on the DS and it turned out great, imagine it on an XBOX 360![/quote]

Sonic Rivals on PSP fits this description. It's supposed to be fun.
 
Is "Sonic Team" even made up of the same people that did the Genesis Sonic titles?

Sonic Adventure would have been fine if it were a one-off and not the game that set the new standard for Sonic titles. It wasn't as good as the older games but was still fun and worthwhile.

Sonic 1-3 were all great. Didn't play the add-on title, I'm assuming that was at least passable.
 
I've always said this but a 3d sonic doesn't work. Poor controls have you running every which way, unlike the 2d sonic all you had to worry about was left or right.

Sonic's past its prime and the team's idea of keeping it fresh is to add more cast members. Either stick to 2d or leave it all behind. And I never liked Phantasy Star in the first place, except for part 4 so I'd probably wouldn't enjoy the PSU games. Japanese sci-fi/fantasy games (includes xenosaga series) = boring.

Edit: Sonic 1 and 2 especially part 2 were great. I thought part 3 lost some of the charm but still good. Sonic and Knuckles started to get more complicated in level design and had players braking all the time.
 
Doesn't it have to do with the fact that their lead programmer, Yuji Naka (spelling?) is no longer with Sonic Team? He was like the Miyamoto of Sega.
 
Yuji Naka really didn't have much to do with it. He was the lead programmer, but nothing nearly as important as Miyamoto. For example, it wasn't Naka who designed Sonic. That said, Sega as a whole sucks now, whereas they were amazing a mere 6 years ago with the Dreamcast. The last awesome Sega game I can think of was Panzer Dragoon Orta, which was 2002. And that team, arguably Sega's best development team, Smilebit, has since been disbanded.
 
The sad part about all of this is the Sonic games sell like hotcakes still.

Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 both went Player's Choice on the GC, Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog all went PC / PH / GH, and Sonic for 360 will probably sell a boatload as well.

Why should Sega change what, to them, isn't broken because they are making a shitload of money on it regardless of review scores?

We'll never see a change :(
 
And you can thank small children weanded on 3-D gaming and 'xtreme' 'attitude' and drooling, unconditional SEGA loyalists in arrested development for that.
 
I havnt played a Sonic game since Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast, which in my opinion, was fun as hell. There were too many playable characters, maybe it should have just been Sonic, Knuckles, and Tails, but otherwise, it was a good game. I would hate to see Sonic go back to 2-d.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']Is "Sonic Team" even made up of the same people that did the Genesis Sonic titles? [/QUOTE]

One of the lead people behind Sonic 2, Sonic 3, and Sonic & Knuckles was Matt Cerny. Since then he's worked on the Crash Bandicoot (2-3), Jak (1-3), and Ratchet & Clank (1-2) series which have all been great.
 
yeah, I'm not so sure I want to see what they'd do to a new Nights. They'd probably run a focus group, get feedback and turn it into an FPS
 
[quote name='toper']Personally, I don't think a 3-d sonic "works", and I refuse to pay a monthly fee for phantasy star. These review scores show that I'm not alone.

Anyways, where the hell is the followup to Nights?[/quote]

Some things are best left in memories. With Team Sonics decline I really don't want them to ruin the Nights experience by releasing a sequel.
 
It never had anything to do with 2d versus 3-d in my mind, it was the simple fact in Sonic Adventures you were forced to play with other characters who were nowhere near as fun, Team Sonic seems to have run with the idea ever since. I loved Sonic Adventures only for the Sonic levels. I played the demo for the 360 version and deleted it in record time, somebody screwed up big time, the camera was an absolute mess, sense of speed was almost nothing, much harder to get a real flow going. The problem is the whole adventure mindset which dilutes what Sonic is supposed to be about, pure speed.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Yes... I think it all started with Sonic Adventure... that game was awful and Sonic Team continued to get worse and worse after that.[/quote]

I am actually in the middle of playing Sonic Adventure again on the Dreamcast. I still think it is pretty damn good. Much better than the current Sonic games (not that that is hard). I also went back and played Sonic Adventure 2 and i like it better now than I did back then.

Ditto the person above about playing Sonic 2 with the other people besides Sonic. That is where the game really really suffers. Give me all Sonic levels and Sonic Adventure 2 for the DC would have been really really good. That Mech like machine you use in an early tails level is just ridiculous.

The problem with the SOnic games is that Sega really has no motivation to put any money into making changes. They still sell like Hot cakes. It's really a shame because I LOVED the Sonic games on the Genesis and DC. I don't think i have even made it past 1 level on the newer ones.

Here's to Sonic on the WII getting it right.
 
[quote name='captainfrizo']Sonic needs to return to 2D where he belongs.[/quote]

Exactly! I think Sega should forget about next gen and do work on Xbox Live Marketplace, PS3 Network, and the Wii Virtual Console. They should just make new 2D games for those online stores instead of trying anymore....oh wait they stopped trying a long time ago.
 
I think you all forget Sega's DS efforts

Feel the Magic
Sonic Rush

Both solid games, especially Sonic Rush, it felt just like the old days only better, and the boss battles are near identical to NiGHTS

Sega Genesis Collection should be a good reminder of what Sega's made of.

It's hard for traditional Sega to make it in the market today. Their titles are either too uniquely Japanese or too simple and straight forward.

But I think the brand awareness is there, people don't say "Oh, God, another Sonic spinoff" like they do with the Mario games...they say "Oh, maybe this will be a GOOD Sonic game!"

In a way, that puts into a better perspective: people still have hope for a GREAT Sonic game after so many mistakes. The legacy is there and people genuinely love the character.

I'm looking forward to playing Sonic on my new 360 though....reviews aren't right all the time...otherwise FFXII would not get a perfect 10.
 
they only game that really fell off for me was Sonic Heroes. That forced on the fly character switching was too much and made the game fell apart. I think SA 1 was the best version of the gameplay because you chould choose who you're playing at whatever time.
Also in SA 1, sonic did have the most levels. Tails was almost a clone of sonic except that he could fly, and all his levels were races.
 
Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are very good games. Now Billy Hatcher, thats a game I dont have any thing good to say.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Yes... I think it all started with Sonic Adventure... that game was awful and Sonic Team continued to get worse and worse after that.[/quote]
Agreed. Sonic Adventure was just awful with the adventure BS that should've never been there to begin with.
 
[quote name='alongx']Yuji Naka really didn't have much to do with it. He was the lead programmer, but nothing nearly as important as Miyamoto. For example, it wasn't Naka who designed Sonic. That said, Sega as a whole sucks now, whereas they were amazing a mere 6 years ago with the Dreamcast. The last awesome Sega game I can think of was Panzer Dragoon Orta, which was 2002. And that team, arguably Sega's best development team, Smilebit, has since been disbanded.[/quote]

I loved Panzer Dragoon Orta and Smilebit was one of my if not my favorite Sonic develpment team after Sonic Team went to Crap. I still hope for a proper Panzer Dragoon Orta sequel and maybe Saga to be ported. Orta was insanely addictive and fun to play through and try and get S rankings, even though it was hard as hell. I can only imagine the achievements for that game if it was on 360 now.

Oh and I must be in the minority, but I loved both Sonic Adventures. Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, the new Sonic all suck huge donkey balls though.
 
Well it can all be summed down with one name

Yuji Naka

Yuji Naka has now founded PROBE.

When Yuji Naka left his workers at Sonic Team and Sega behind, he did not announce if he would be continuing work on Sonic the Hedgehog and other games currently being produced. Those workers he left behind are reported to be worried about carrying on without his supervision. Sonic Team's studio is currently headed by Masahiro Kumono, while Shun Nakamura is currently leading the Sonic The Hedgehog project.

Ten members of Sega's Sonic Team joined Naka at PROPE, which has a starting capital of 10 million yen (10% of which comes from Sega). [1] Sega can exercise a "first dibs" option for publishing games made at PROPE, though if Sega rejects a title produced by the new studio, Naka would then be free to approach other publishers. [2]

The new company was announced on May 8, 2006, and has yet to release details on any current projects in production.
 
I actually quite liked SA2 and even SH, but I haven't played the actual versions of Shadow or the new Sonic yet, so I can't say for those

Who didn't like Sonic Heroes, and why? It was a pretty decently fun game
 
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