Have the Japanese game makers lost their touch?

T

TH

CAG Veteran
Hi folks,

I just wanted to ask a quick informal observation regarding Japanese games for this gen.

So my girl made a very interesting observation about my game collection for the 360. She said I didn't have any Japanese games for my 360. For my PS2, I have all the DMC 1-3, FFX, FFXII, Ace Combats 4 + 5, Shadow of the Colossus, RE4, etc. I rented most of the games for the 360 cuz they are now $50/60 clams each. I found that I didn't buy RE5, Ace Combat 6, FF13, or DMC 4.

I bought instead Dead Space, Mass Effect 1/2, Forza 2/3, Batman AA, Assassin's Creed 2 and zero games from Capcom or Square Enix. FF13 was the last straw.. finished it.. but hated the whole game and thought WTF.

Beside SSFIV, are you guys experiencing what I am experiencing.. a higher quality of US / European made games over Japanese game makers?

Let's take for example Gran Turismo 5 and FF 13... two highly anticipated AAA+ games with tons of delays. GT5 is still not out and Forza 2 and 3 was produced w/ great reviews. FF13 didn't come out until Mass Effect 2. It really feels to me like the Japanese game makers have lost touch with the core audience while US game makers can produce higher quality products faster. FF13 was damn beautiful.. but freakin' not fun. Arrogance? Hubris maybe? Or just out of touch?

Not trying to start any race wars.. but this is my honest assessment. How bout u? Thx. Peace out.
 
im going to say yes, im going through FF13 right now and its really a struggle for me, it doesn't even have the magic I think FF12 has, and most people seemed to dislike that one lol.
 
While I agree that Japan does send a lot of trash to the west, they do still make top quality software.

If we're talking commercial success, Japan has been dominating the hand held market almost single-handedly. The Wii as we all know has also been dominating the industry since it's release.

Quality wise -- yes I think it has dropped it certain areas. DMC4, Ninja Gaiden 2, Resident Evil 5 and Ace Combat 6 are all generally agreed upon to be a step down or simply disappointing (they certainly aren't bad games though). Console JRPGs have also been a mixed bunch but it's always been that way in the West. There's been several niche hits like Valkyria Chronicles, and also big blockbusters like FFXIII which is as superb as any Western RPG -- it's just a very different style of game design.

Gran Turismo 5 may be taking it's time but it looks to deliver much more than anything its currently competing with but we'll have to wait and see.

No one is being arrogant, it's just not as easy to make games that appeal around the world. Do you see Western games doing well in Japan? It's a very different culture and yet there's still some big hitters to be had later this year like The Last Guardian, FFXIV, Metroid Other M, and MGS: Peace Walker off the top of my head.
 
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Eastern studios tend to put out games that are better received by Eastern audiences, while Western studios tend to put out games that are better received by Western audiences. The big difference between now and then is that Western studios are putting out bigger, more noticeable titles than ever before. How many console gamers really knew the names Bioware and Bethesda before this console generation?

'Course, who cares where the game was made? All that should matter is "is the game fun?" There's plenty of titles that come from both sides that I enjoy, and I couldn't tell you the country of origin for half of them.

It also doesn't help that you only mentioned having a 360. That console is doing downright terrible in Japan, so there's little reason for anyone to do anything on it.
 
Yeah, it just seems like the games made over there aren't as polished. There's still a lot of good stuff though but it feels like it's going downhill overall.
 
Panzerfaust, Salamando3000,

You both made good points. So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt about culture and such. So you're right, maybe ME's localization (translations) may lose some of the original source intent.

However, cultural differences doesn't explain why Capcom didn't update the game mechanic w/ RE5 (can't run and shoot) or SE 's rail decision for FF13. Dead Space was scary and a surprise for me and totally fun. So was Mass Effect 1. I love ME's near endless choices and possible outcomes (and mutli-playthoroughs for the various female hook ups, u know?) DS & ME were not on my radar until I gave them a shot.

To me, the game designs from Japan seems to have stopped progressing and are not fun for me. Even now, I hear some really bad comments about Lost Planet 2.
 
RE5's shooting mechanics and FFXIII's linearity aren't flaws, they are design choices.

RE5's flaw was that the overall experience lacked in every aspect compared to its predecessor, save for the co-op which saved it. Stop and Shoot didn't suffer because the player couldn't move, it suffered because the game failed to deliver satisfying encounters. Stop and Shoot as a design choice is supposed to make the player feel pressure and keep you unnerved like it did in RE4.

And nothing is wrong with FFXIII's linearity, just as nothing is wrong with Mass Effect's dialogue system. There are people who are into different types of games.
 
yes and no.

yes, if we're looking at shooters, racing games, action games and generally mainstream titles. mostly due to lower budgets, smaller teams and lack of ability to make those games on par with next gen titles from western dewelopers(they are usually great in concept and poor and clunky in execution).

no, if we're talking about ideas and concept. just look at Bayonetta(and all Platinum Games in general), Blazblue, Trauma series, Professor Layton series or upcoming El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron.

the problem with japanese developers(at least most of them) is that unlike in the past they try to appeal to mass market in US/Europe by simply copying ideas from existing games made by western developers without budget or ability to do it properly and without thinking how it will impact the core experience of the game.
 
Yeah for the most part. The west is kicking their asses. Trust me I'm a big RPG, action, and platforming gamer...so it hurts me to say this.

I haven't played a good game from a JDM developer this entire generation. By and By on the PS1 and N64 era the japs were king. Then when the PS2 came out all the good jap games were on it and very creative western made games were on the Xbox. This generation it seems that almost all the good games out are made by western developers with exception to a small few (Nintendo games still kick ass!). The japs have just dropped the ball...they aren't nearly as competitive as they once were. If a good game does come out of japan then its a game in a very niche market some might not like. Hell some of them are starting to use the unreal engine since they just can't compete otherwise (not that there is anything wrong with that). For the most part the last generation of Japanese developers prided themselves on coding unique game engines for each title, those days seem long gone.

Even JRPG's aren't as good as a lot of western ones theses days.

For comparisons sake I can think of only a hand full of good japanese games this generation... MGS4 (IMO MGS4 was the weakest entry in the series. I hated it, some loved it though), Just about any Mario game on the Wii, and Valkyria Chronicles (some hated it and some loved it...I found it to be a pretty okay strategy game...what a crappy story).

Some western games that I find superior are GTA4, Uncharted 2 (which is way better than MGS4, and kind of similar but different less stealth, more plat forming, and bigger action), God of War 3, hell even Rock Band Beatles is better than a lot of JDM games.
 
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The main problem (which Yoshida, who is the head of SCE WW once said) is that most Japanese developers are just struggling with development on HD console. Many Japanese studios lack high end graphics/programming people, which explains why we aren't seeing many Japanese HD games. There are multiple developers who either can't afford it, lack enough resources, and so on. And the big issue is that many HD games (especially early on) had to sell 500k to break even. Especially for a JRPG where only a few series can break 500k alone in just Japan, it's just a major risk to develop HD games (that's one reason why we don't see many JRPGs on PS3/360).

Part of it comes from this article:
http://playstation.joystiq.com/2008/09/24/sonys-yoshida-admits-japan-lagging-in-games-technology/

Because of handhelds being less powerful and performing quite well in Japan, that's why the majority of Japanese developed games have moved to handhelds.

I still think Japanese games are quite good this gen (my favorites are for sure FFXIII and MGS4), it's just that my collection isn't so dominant in Japanese games this gen because their output is much lower.

GT5 is taking forever because I remember when the creator of GT himself said designing a car on PS1 would only take a day, PS2 a few weeks, while PS3 can take 4-6 months. When you add in multiple cars, tracks, etc., that is why it's taking forever to create GT5.
 
Fighting game wise, I don't see anyone, but Japan make a good fighter.

After that...Yeah, going to agree and say that vast majority of games from Japan I don't really get excited for anymore.
 
i really wouldn't take any guy from Polyphony Digital seriously considering their track record and statements. jrpgs don't have huge budgets like Gears of War for example. makers of those really niche jrpgs for ps3 probably have to sell 100-150k full priced copies to break even. games like Lost Odyssey, Infinite Undiscovery etc. need a lot more since they have very high production value.

i think that with all the problems with high costs of HD development we will see more games from eastern development studios.
Metro 2033 - lacked polish of those 25-30mln$ games like Fear or Resistance, but was really good and very impressive graphically. made profit after 2 weeks of sales on 360 alone(they sold like 150k copies then).
Sniper Ghost Warrior - so far graphically on par with titles like Bad Company 2 or Call of Duty games and looks very promising from what we've seen so far. development budget? less than 1mln$.
Call of Juarez 2: Bound in Blood - 6-7mln$ development budget.
The Witcher - 8mln$ development budget.
 
I think Japan is not doing as good as last gen in America, but they are still having some good quality games coming out over here. What I think is the problem with this gen is that most of the games are now FPS games, instead of RPG games like last gen. I do like FPS games, just not this much to be honest.
 
I think they're trying too hard to westernize their games to be honest. 'Yeah, let's make a western-style RPG? How are western style games? Oh, let's make it incredibly linear with absolutely no separate paths because that's what they want/like.' That's one example. Another would be RE5's co-op to basically appease the 'this is racist' argument. Also, anime kinda ruined their ability to tell good stories.
 
Yeah. There's the occasional success, but pretty much everything that Capcom, Konami, and Square put out now is shit... which is a shame considering these used to be some of the best companies in the industry. Japanese devs are trying to develop for Western tastes, and they just don't get it.
 
There are bad Western games as well. Too Human was a joke, Dark Void and Bionic Commando were huge let down.
 
I don't think it's Japan losing its touch as much as it is the west improving as game developers. Japan still makes great games but they're making a lot more crap too. The west still makes crap but has also improved greatly since the 16/32/64-bit eras.

Metal Gear Solid 4 is one of the best games of this gen and Galaxy 2 will likely be GotY, as was Mario Galaxy before it.
 
I don't think they've lost their touch. I think my tastes just changed.

I used to love platformers, fighting games, liked JRPGs (was never super huge into them) etc. Never liked combo based, button mashers like DMC.

But I just eventually got sick of those genres and didn't really rekindle interest in gaming until getting a 360 and discovering that I had a lot more fun playing FPS games and western style RPGs and the occasional action/adventure game like Prince of Persia or Assassins Creed 2 etc.

I don't think Japanese games are any worse than they were when I was playing them for most of my life up until this generation. I think my tastes just changed and I didn't dig those genres so much anymore, didn't dig the lame stories in Japanese RPGs (never into anime either) etc.

I'm also a much more casual gamer than I used to be, so I have little patience for difficult games--and Japanese games tend to be more hardcore in that regard than most western games in my experience.
 
Yes - many Japanese developers have gone on record as saying that the East has failed to progress as fast as the West during the current console iteration.

Most of this appears to be cultural. In the West, companies openly share their experience with other companies. All you need to do is look at conferences like GDC to see what I mean. Japan is much more secretive about their proprietary information, thus every company is re-inventing the wheel. Sometimes even within the same company! Middleware is less accepted over there as well, so there is a lot of time spent writing their own tools.

During development of Western games, developers constantly try new ideas, iterate on those that work, and throw away those that don't. They are much more willing to try something out that may not work because failure is something we openly expect to achieve during the course of finding the correct solution. Again, in the East this is not the case.
 
Wow.. Thanks for all the replies.

My girl is a bit happier to see it's just not her seeing this. See, all of this came about cuz FF13 nearly brought her to tears. She nearly broke the controller as she was very upset not able to pass the 2nd or 3rd gestalt encounters for more than 10+ times. She's a huge fan of all the previous FFs. She couldn't figure out why SE designed the game where the REQUIRED gestalt fights are so damn HARD. She just wanted to continue the story and see the ending. There should be more multiple ways for her to finish the game. The convergence against really hard encounters turned her off. Like she says.. pretty but not fun. I really agree with her.

So to us, it would seem that fun games don't torture you. Games that torture you like Ninja Gaiden are not fun.. they are painful.

And yeah, we do see MSG4 and SMG 1/2 are excellent.. so that's encouraging. We really hope the upcoming Last Guardian and GT5 really live up to the hype. We hope it's fun and not torturous.

1 last thing.. we are curious, do Japanese gamers prefer games like RE5 and FF13? Famitsu gave them really high scores. Or did they feel like us over here in the states?
 
I am not follow you here. First you are talking about Japanese game not progressing, then you talk about the difficulty of FF13? Both are valid point and I do agree that FF13 is hard, but not sure what they have to do with each other.
 
This is not about the game being hard or easy but rather about something completely different.

Time spent learning vs. Time spent playing

Regardless of genre (FPS,TPS, FPRPG) if there is any shooting involved the general Western gamer will already have the abilities to play the game at a higher capacity than those that do not play shooters. We have become a dual stick shooter community and shooter games as our norm (ME2 is an RPG, but a shooter first). American/Western games almost come completely without manuals. For one, people don't read them anymore, but for the fact that every American pretty much knows how to play the game without even playing it before. Haven't you skipped trainning mode because the controls were the same as what you are use to?

Now look at Japanese games. All over the place with different styles that are unique to their own game. Each come with a booklet that most will go unread (SSF4 was 48 pages!). The Japanese market is willing to try new things, new controls for the players to learn rather than to just play.

So have they lost their touch? I doubt it. They are just trying to create something that could grasp our attention, but they are missing the point. However there have been a few Japanese games that tried new things and succeed. Demon's Souls is more of a western RPG with the annoying factor of the Japanese RPG that does well in all areas. Street Fighter 4 cemented itself as the true king of fighting games. Valkyria Chronicles introduced the strategy rpg to the next generation. MGS4 told everyone how much cutscenes you are not allowed to do. Yakuza 3 said we have our own version of GTA, but with more punching and kicking. Each game different from the rest, requiring the gamer to learn the game first before playing.

The learning curve for a Japanese game is longer than that of a Western game. Yes there are a few Western games that have steep learning curve, but the majority of those are on the PC (MMORPGS and RTS).

We play to enjoy our games. The Japanese learn their games and become fucking annoyingly good at it.
 
I have a friend who's library last gen and before consisted almost entirely of Japanese games.

This gen, it's been all western games for him.

I wouldn't say Japanese games are all done though, there's still plenty of JP games, especially JRPGs. The japanese will always make better 2d shooters and fighters.
 
I've had similar epiphanies looking over my current gen (Xbox 360) games: all of them are western. I think, for me, that in may ways western designers are just hitting me in that "right" cultural way that draws me in.
 
[quote name='j-cart']This is not about the game being hard or easy but rather about something completely different.

Time spent learning vs. Time spent playing

[/QUOTE]

It's both actually.

Japanese games tend to have steeper learning curves. But they also tend to be harder. And many don't have adjustable difficulty--like most JRPGs.

With say Oblivion or Fallout 3 I have the option of turn the difficulty down and just enjoying the exploration and questing. With say a Final Fantasy game or other JRPGs, you have no choice but to get through tough battles or give up. Often having to resort to level grinding etc.

Both kill them for me. I don't have the patience for steep learning curves, and I don't have the patience for hard games where I die all the time etc.

As you say I play to relax and have fun. Not to learn the game, get good at it and get some sense of accomplishment.

Games are nothing but mindless time wasters for me that I play to have fun and veg out. My career is where I challenge myself and seek a sense of accomplishment.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']anime kinda ruined their ability to tell good stories.[/QUOTE]

Haha, oh wow. As expected of a guy calling himself "KingBroly."
 
[quote name='Gentlegamer']I've had similar epiphanies looking over my current gen (Xbox 360) games: all of them are western. I think, for me, that in may ways western designers are just hitting me in that "right" cultural way that draws me in.[/QUOTE]


You do own an American console. If you read my previous post (two above yours) then I you'll understand why they got it "right." You are playing to enjoy yourself and so far the games you have been playing. But did you learn the game? or did you just play it?

That I believe is the difference between Western games and Japanese games.


dmaul1114: Hit right on spot. I agree with everything you say and THAT is the difference. Playing to enjoy vs Learning to play.
 
[quote name='TH']1 last thing.. we are curious, do Japanese gamers prefer games like RE5 and FF13? Famitsu gave them really high scores. Or did they feel like us over here in the states?[/QUOTE]

Gamasutra has a weekly column called "Saling the World" that looks at the top five games sold that week for each console in Japan, US, and UK. Week after week, the UK and US charts are fairly similar, while the Japan charts consist of (a majority of) Japanese titles. On some weeks, I can't recognize a single title. So, even if they do feel that Japanese games lost their touch, they still lap up what they put out (instead of going Western).

It's also worth bringing up Famitsu's review scores (they're the only Japanese reviews I ever hear about). No Western game has received a perfect 40/40, even though they've been giving perfect scores to more games recently than they have in the past (9 of the 14 perfects occurred in 2006 or later). There's some Western games that receive near-perfects, but no where near as many.
 
[quote name='62t']I am not follow you here. First you are talking about Japanese game not progressing, then you talk about the difficulty of FF13? Both are valid point and I do agree that FF13 is hard, but not sure what they have to do with each other.[/QUOTE]

Sorry about the confusion. Just using FF13 as example as it was the last game played.

Games should be fun, first and foremost. SE's game design and rails direction seems to be to branch out to more gamers. Which is fine.. but the difficult REQUIRED choke points is not fun. So I took over the game and beat it, but didn't have to use any of those damn gestalts. So why make them REQUIRED? Why is this not clear to the game designer? We checked w/ Amazon and Gamefly's user feedbacks, and had similar sentiments.

If we were to create a game for lots of people.. we'd make it fun and accessible, not hard and inaccessible. Thus, the gripe about them losing their touch. Last I checked, games are entertainment.. not torture sessions. To us, their game designs are not progressing.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']
It's also worth bringing up Famitsu's review scores (they're the only Japanese reviews I ever hear about). No Western game has received a perfect 40/40, even though they've been giving perfect scores to more games recently than they have in the past (9 of the 14 perfects occurred in 2006 or later). There's some Western games that receive near-perfects, but no where near as many.[/QUOTE]

The only reason for that is that Famitsu is a "reviews-for-sale" magazine. I'm not even fucking with you. Your score is based on how much you pay in. I guarantee anything would get 40/40 if enough money was pumped into Famitsu.
 
[quote name='TH']Games should be fun, first and foremost. SE's game design and rails direction seems to be to branch out to more gamers. Which is fine.. but the difficult REQUIRED choke points is not fun. So I took over the game and beat it, but didn't have to use any of those damn gestalts. So why make them REQUIRED? Why is this not clear to the game designer? We checked w/ Amazon and Gamefly's user feedbacks, and had similar sentiments.

If we were to create a game for lots of people.. we'd make it fun and accessible, not hard and inaccessible. Thus, the gripe about them losing their touch. Last I checked, games are entertainment.. not torture sessions. To us, their game designs are not progressing.[/QUOTE]

So, what, you want the hard parts of a game to be completely optional? Believe it or not, there are some people that like a bit of challenge in their games. Fun is very subjective. Fun and hard are not mutually exclusive terms. There is overlap, just not for particular people. Ever consider the possibility that the game just wasn't made for people like you? Not every game is designed for everyone. If you don't like the game, don't play it.

In the case of FF13, the gestalt fights are a story element. They're used in at least a handful of cutscenes, and are supposed to act as a struggle for the character...as a reminder to the character that even in their times of desperation they can overcome mighty trials. It makes more sense for the fights to be tough than it would for them to be easy.
 
U-S-A, U-S-A!!! If the Japanese developer think that they are lacking than I'm sorry to say that there is no need for any other confirmation. Japanese culture as much as they are obsessed with the United States they still rather support their own native products than support American made. Oh and some say that their games are structured a certain way. Structure as it may be it is POOR structure.
 
One of my biggest gripes is the Japanese action RPGs. The action isn't fun, and the RPG aspect isn't as fun. I played through about 80% of Crisis Core and stopped completely because I closed my eyes and mashed the attack button and moved around randomly and got through 3 fights in a row, including a mini-boss fight. How is that supposed to make me feel like it's not a waste of time to continue? I haven't really touched any Japanese "action RPG" since, because they all feel like that.

Most people agree also that current gen RPGs are best on DS, and some on PSP, because most of them stick to the traditional way of what works. FF3 and FF4 didn't do too well in their 3D remakes, I don't think.

Granted, my favorite games this generation are still Japanese (Bayonetta, Infinite Space, and Etrian Odyssey), but even I have more Western 360 titles than Japanese titles. But I did get bored of FPSes before I became a console gamer, so a lot of current gen offerings don't really pique my interests.
 
[quote name='javeryh']Dead Rising save system anyone?[/QUOTE]

To be fair that was fixed in the Wii version
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']So, what, you want the hard parts of a game to be completely optional? Believe it or not, there are some people that like a bit of challenge in their games. Fun is very subjective. Fun and hard are not mutually exclusive terms. There is overlap, just not for particular people. Ever consider the possibility that the game just wasn't made for people like you? Not every game is designed for everyone. If you don't like the game, don't play it.

In the case of FF13, the gestalt fights are a story element. They're used in at least a handful of cutscenes, and are supposed to act as a struggle for the character...as a reminder to the character that even in their times of desperation they can overcome mighty trials. It makes more sense for the fights to be tough than it would for them to be easy.[/QUOTE]

Yes, we agree not every game is for everyone. However, this is a FF game marketed globally to families and teens with all the pretty art direction. As long time fans of the FF series, this had a WTF design that diverged so far from their core hallmark.

We like challenges and when bosses are hard. However, as we stated, the gestalts were not required to beat all the bosses. As for the required element, great. Why make it required and not use it in appropriate fashion? Heck, look at FFX, u beat those trials and get those aeons to beat some hard bosses with. Here, you NEED to beat something hard and don't need to use. In addition, it prevents the progression toward the completion of the story and game. You don't see a problem with this design?

BTW, what is your honest take on FF13? The best in the series?
 
[quote name='TH']Yes, we agree not every game is for everyone. However, this is a FF game marketed globally to families and teens with all the pretty art direction. As long time fans of the FF series, this had a WTF design that diverged so far from their core hallmark.

We like challenges and when bosses are hard. However, as we stated, the gestalts were not required to beat all the bosses. As for the required element, great. Why make it required and not use it in appropriate fashion? Heck, look at FFX, u beat those trials and get those aeons to beat some hard bosses with. Here, you NEED to beat something hard and don't need to use. In addition, it prevents the progression toward the completion of the story and game. You don't see a problem with this design?

BTW, what is your honest take on FF13? The best in the series?[/QUOTE]

I realize you were addressing someone else, but really? You thought the Gestalt battles were hard? They all came down to heal/buff/debuff. Wait until you attempt a Level B or higher quest, those'll make you weep.

To address the original topic, I generally have less to complain about from Japanese developers than US. Maybe it's just due to tastes, but it's like an entire nation caters to my whims. (I have almost no love for FPS, sports games, racing, sandboxes, etc..)
 
In online play? Yeah. Especially on the PSP when they ignore the fact that most of the world isn't able to play on local wi-fi with strangers whenever they want and leave out online play. Then there are the developers that don't quite get how to do co-op (RE5/LP2) like some in the west.

In singleplayer? Not really. Some developers seem content to put out the same kinds of games they've put out for years and others are pushing things forward by trying out new things with their games (Sony Japan on the PSP/PSN, Q-Games, the one good developer at Sega that made Valkyria Chronicles, From Software, Nintendo, and others), though it tends to be done more on the handhelds than the consoles since that is what sells over there.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']So, what, you want the hard parts of a game to be completely optional? Believe it or not, there are some people that like a bit of challenge in their games. Fun is very subjective. Fun and hard are not mutually exclusive terms. There is overlap, just not for particular people. Ever consider the possibility that the game just wasn't made for people like you? Not every game is designed for everyone. If you don't like the game, don't play it. [/QUOTE]

I agree with all that.

It's just to me most Japanese games fall into that category as most devs over there--outside of Nintendo and companies making casual Wii games--tend to cater more to the hardcore gamer crowd that likes a challenge.

Western devs seem to do more for the casual gamers, or at the least put in scalable difficulty that has a true easy mode. Unlike say Ninja Gaiden 2 which was still way to hard for me even on the easiest mode. For me, I think the simple solution is to have user selectable difficulty modes, with the easy modes being truly easy. Rather than making the hard parts optional etc.

Anyway, add in my disinterest in most genre's they focus on (not many FPS games or open, western style RPGs coming over their) and the typical settings/story lines in those games and I just don't give a crap about 99% of games coming from over there these days.

Big change from prior to this gen where pretty much every game I played outside of some sports games was Japanese developed.
 
[quote name='TH']We like challenges and when bosses are hard. However, as we stated, the gestalts were not required to beat all the bosses. As for the required element, great. Why make it required and not use it in appropriate fashion? Heck, look at FFX, u beat those trials and get those aeons to beat some hard bosses with. Here, you NEED to beat something hard and don't need to use. In addition, it prevents the progression toward the completion of the story and game. You don't see a problem with this design?[/QUOTE]

Why should "they weren't required to beat any boss" matter? Would you have had no problem with those boss fights if they were just hard and didn't reward you with something? Would you have been okay with them if the game then forced you to use them in a future fight? I'm not entirely sure I understand your argument.

Now, if your complaint is just that "I found these fights to be more difficult than other parts of the game", I can understand that. However, you should recognize that that's not a uniquely Japanese game design element. I can think of dozens of bosses/levels/parts of games from anywhere that caused me significantly more trouble than surrounding areas.

[quote name='TH']BTW, what is your honest take on FF13? The best in the series?[/QUOTE]

Best? Fark no. I did enjoy it though, especially how it required a lot more strategy than I remember previous FF's needing. Hard to compare it to earlier games since they're so different and it's been so long since I played them. Gun to my face though, I'd say FF6 was the best.
 
I think in the end that Western games are more standardize with difficulty. For Japanese games there aren't. Fire Emblem and Tales of Vesperia allow you to choice difficulty and very playable at easy. Heck you can change the difficulty at anytime in Tales of Vesperia so you can lower it for a difficult boss. And in new Mario Galaxy the Cosmic Guide will actually get the star for you if you get stuck. I dont think any Western games have the reach the point where it will complete the game for you.
 
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