Help fund Double Fines next game!

[quote name='Strell']The reductive reasoning in here is staggering.[/QUOTE]

Kind of as we'll likely not know their reasoning for using Kick Starter to be able to produce any relevant in-depth arguments. We can only throw up a bunch of conjecture until we know for certain.
 
[quote name='Draekon']Kind of as we'll likely not know their reasoning for using Kick Starter [/QUOTE]

I think there's a million reasons for using Kick Starter, and likely several more to follow.
 
[quote name='Halo05']Pretty much what I was going to say.

Must be nice to be able to make a game with no worries about recouping your losses by making the game good.

Yeah, I realize it'll probably be good if you're into the point and click thing but still, this seems backwards. I realize that creating games is getting more expensive, especially when looking at retail games, but there are also easier ways to distribute any sort of game. More retail options and many more digital options. One look at the Xbox Live Indie marketplace makes me wish that there were fewer games.[/QUOTE]
You're missing two key points.

1. Simply because they have money upfront does not mean they don't have to worry about making the game good. The damage to their brand capital alone would be staggering, and the backlash and alienation of fans -- the very fanbase that keeps the company afloat -- would potentially spell disaster for the company's longevity. This sets aside the pride the creators will likely have in, you know, making a good game. No one sets out to make a shit game.

2. Your opinion is based on incorrect presumptions about how the industry works. Double Fine can't simply make the game and release it, otherwise, well, they would. Almost all developers have to pitch their game to a publisher who agrees to bankroll the development costs in exchange for recouping their costs plus some percent of profits and whatever else. In this case, Double Fine couldn't get the pitch picked up by any publisher. Before, that would be it, show's over, the game can't be made because Double Fine doesn't have the resources to make it themselves. But now, people have put forth the capital in exchange for the game, so it can be made.
 
[quote name='Draekon']Kind of as we'll likely not know their reasoning for using Kick Starter to be able to produce any relevant in-depth arguments. We can only throw up a bunch of conjecture until we know for certain.[/QUOTE]

Actually, they say why on the Kickstarter site, under "Why Kickstarter?"

Reading IS fundamental.
 
[quote name='JustYourAverageJoe']Simply because they have money upfront does not mean they don't have to worry about making the game good. The damage to their brand capital alone would be staggering, and the backlash and alienation of fans -- the very fanbase that keeps the company afloat -- would potentially spell disaster for the company's longevity. [/QUOTE]

Holy shit you're right.

That's something no other game company has to worry about, publicly financed or no.

Maybe this isn't as risk free as I thought

 
[quote name='TheLongshot']Actually, they say why on the Kickstarter site, under "Why Kickstarter?"

Reading IS fundamental.[/QUOTE]

There's more to the explanation than what's written there. It's pretty basic and short and have a hard time believing that's all there is to it for their entire decision process between when Tim said "That's it, I want to do another adventure game" and them posting it on Kick Starter. Doubt we'll ever get a full explanation, unless they do it in their documentary.
 
[quote name='Draekon']There's more to the explanation than what's written there. It's pretty basic and short and have a hard time believing that's all there is to it for their entire decision process between when Tim said "That's it, I want to do another adventure game" and them posting it on Kick Starter. Doubt we'll ever get a full explanation, unless they do it in their documentary.[/QUOTE]

I think watching the video will give you a better idea, since it is kinda hinted in there. They probably been getting requests for a long time to do a point-and-click adventure game (since that is what Schafer is known for), but they can't sell it to game publishers. So, why not go to those who are requesting it to ask them for the money? So far, it seems to have gone beyond expectations for them.

There are other things that could have gone into the decision, like the failure of Brutal Legend is making it tough to get an in with a publisher. But, I think the main reason is that this type of game is requested most by fans, so he's figuring out a way to get it done.
 
[quote name='camoor']Holy shit you're right.

That's something no other game company has to worry about, publicly financed or no.

Maybe this isn't as risk free as I thought

[/QUOTE]
I'm surprised there isn't more of a whooshing sound when you dodge a response or miss a point.
 
[quote name='JustYourAverageJoe']This is the most condescendingly ignorant thing I've read in a while. You might want to do some amount of superficial Googling and reading about Double Fine before making the most asinine of assertions with no actual knowledge with which to back them up.
[/QUOTE]You're talking to a guy who bought Psychonauts three times.

[quote name='camoor']It's not wrong, it's genius.

It's the best pre-order scam of all time - for $15 you are promised a copy of a non-existent game. That we know almost nothing about. Distributed on Steam. The other tiers pile on more worthless junk for a cold hard cash premium.
[/QUOTE]
Thinking about it more, it seems to me that offering as few details about the game as possible works in their favor. When people donate, I imagine they are imagining their ideal point and click adventure game. Of course, everybody's idea of the ideal game is different. If we had concept art to look at or a rough idea of the actual gameplay, it would automatically turn a segment of potential donors off.

I would theoretically buy shares of stock in Double Fine if were that were possible because I would be able to look at financial reports and make an informed decision. But there is so little to go on right now that shelling out cash for this makes me uncomfortable.

This site is dedicated to giving consumers full information on product prices. It's why I'm here. People share information in order to become better informed consumers. Double Fine's Kickstarter venture is the antithesis of this idea. Without the emotional plea and victim complex of a segment of game enthusiasts, paying for a game that doesn't even exist yet would be considered irrational.
 
I don't think anyone who pitched in has had the wool pulled over their eyes.

Oh no, I pre-ordered a game from someone who's made my all-time favorite games, never made one I didn't like, and it's going to be in a genre that I'd like to see thriving.

I'm such a SUCKER!
 
[quote name='Spokker']You're talking to a guy who bought Psychonauts three times.[/QUOTE]
Then I withdraw the snark of my comment, but I am still surprised you made the comments you did, especially in light of your past support.


[quote name='Spokker']Double Fine's Kickstarter venture is the antithesis of this idea. Without the emotional plea and victim complex of a segment of game enthusiasts, paying for a game that doesn't even exist yet would be considered irrational.[/QUOTE]
If it's irrational, then why is it done so often, in varying forms? It's no different than donating to PBS or NPR. You have no idea what content will be created with your money, but familiarity with the channel and its programs informs you of what to expect, and what your patronage now will likely give you in the future. Really, this is most directly like that, or the older idea of being a "patron" of an artist, funding their future works based on current performance and future capability.

But other modern examples would be pre-ordering, or buying a season pass for DLC. In both cases, you're putting money down for content you don't often know much about beyond superficial details.

I can respect that some people would want to wait and see what it may actually be before committing to it. But it's hardly irrational to support a creator you like based on your enjoyment of their past work. That's what being a fan is.
 
[quote name='JustYourAverageJoe']Then I withdraw the snark of my comment, but I am still surprised you made the comments you did, especially in light of your past support.[/quote]I love Double Fine but my position is a principled one. I would say the same about Miyamoto or Sakaguchi or whoever. I'm not pre-ordering Zelda or Final Fantasy because I loved Ocarina of Time or Final Fantasy VI.

If it's irrational, then why is it done so often, in varying forms? It's no different than donating to PBS or NPR. You have no idea what content will be created with your money, but familiarity with the channel and its programs informs you of what to expect, and what your patronage now will likely give you in the future.
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If Double Fine wants to go non-profit like NPR and PBS then I would give them all my money. I can also look at PBS' annual reports.

But other modern examples would be pre-ordering, or buying a season pass for DLC. In both cases, you're putting money down for content you don't often know much about beyond superficial details.
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I don't pre-order or buy season passes either. But you can, however, get your money back if you decide to cancel your pre-order in most cases.
 
[quote name='Spokker']I love Double Fine but my position is a principled one. I would say the same about Miyamoto or Sakaguchi or whoever. I'm not pre-ordering Zelda or Final Fantasy because I loved Ocarina of Time or Final Fantasy VI. [/quote]

Well, in the case of Sakaguchi, it would be "The Last Story" instead of Final Fantasy, since he hasn't designed a FF game in years. And while you think it is irrational, many who are fans are willing to play import prices to preorder it based on his name and what he has done in the past.

I don't pre-order or buy season passes either. But you can, however, get your money back if you decide to cancel your pre-order in most cases.
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In this case, no money is spent until the Kickstarter ends. At any time, you can withdraw your pledge. If you feel like that you are comfortable with what other people have supported and want to wait-and-see how it will turn out, you have that option. Course, it may be required by Kickstarter that you have to release details as the time period goes on. I know that Kickstarter does have a vetting process for all people who submit stuff like this.

No one is telling you you have to support this. But, saying that people are irrational to give money to support the development of something they want is a little silly. When it can mean the difference between something happening or not happening, many would give money to make it happen, or to show support. Obviously, many have.
 
[quote name='Vegan']I don't think anyone who pitched in has had the wool pulled over their eyes.

Oh no, I pre-ordered a game from someone who's made my all-time favorite games, never made one I didn't like, and it's going to be in a genre that I'd like to see thriving.

I'm such a SUCKER![/QUOTE]

Yeah but what do you expect at a site named cheap ass gamer.

Most investors are just assholes who want as much profit as quickly as possible. Likewise being a cheapass is no lofty goal. You guys are different - that's great!

It's just not what I would do with my money and I thought I'd offer my perspective because others might find it interesting. You don't have to convince me that it's a smart use of money because it's not my money - if it brings you enjoyment I say go for it!
 
[quote name='Spokker']This site is dedicated to giving consumers full information on product prices. It's why I'm here. People share information in order to become better informed consumers. Double Fine's Kickstarter venture is the antithesis of this idea. Without the emotional plea and victim complex of a segment of game enthusiasts, paying for a game that doesn't even exist yet would be considered irrational.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. That's a logical, concise version of what I'm trying to say.
 
I have no problem funding Kickstart projects. I mean hell if a bunch of guys from Electronic Arts decided to develop an idea that their company wouldn't back but allowed them to retain the rights to, and they had a Kickstart page I'd consider investing if it interested me. Plus I have a soft spot for point & click adventure titles.

I think this is a brilliant idea in itself. As gamers, we are too spoiled in getting to play a demo and learn about a game then decide if we want to throw money at it. This is why we continually play crap, then whine about why it's crap. If I toss some cash at a few developers for projects they would like to consider, sure I might get some misses. But in my mind there will be enough hits of such quality in the end that it's worth the risk. This is where true developers enjoy creating instead of putting in 25-50% of their talents on whatever garbage the big guns feeling like shoveling out there.

And for those of you who are skeptical, most Kickstart projects have a minimum they want to raise. If they don't raise that much, you are charged nothing. Example: you pledge $50 but they don't reach their minimum of $100,000 in 60 days. Then you owe nothing.
 
[quote name='Spokker']This site is dedicated to giving consumers full information on product prices. It's why I'm here. People share information in order to become better informed consumers. Double Fine's Kickstarter venture is the antithesis of this idea. Without the emotional plea and victim complex of a segment of game enthusiasts, paying for a game that doesn't even exist yet would be considered irrational.[/QUOTE]
It only depends on your logic. If the line of thinking is:
  1. I would like to see a new adventure game made by Tim Shafer.
  2. The only way he'll make a new adventure game is if it's funded in advance by fans.
  3. My $15 contribution will get me a copy of the game, access to the beta, and involvement in the creation of it (and more money would get me other bonuses).
  4. I have $15 (or more) to spare.

Then it seems perfectly rational to get involved in the project.

If you truly need to know more about a game before committing money to it, then by all means wait until a demo or reviews are available. However, don't suppose that your viewpoint is the only sane and reasonable response.
 
[quote name='TheLongshot']In other news, it looks like Obsidian is putting out feelers about a Kickstart-style project. Thing is, I'm not sure what I'd recommend them do considering most of their portfolio is sequels to other people's games.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/10/obsidian-want-to-know-what-you-want-them-to-make/[/QUOTE]
Finish Alpha Protocol

also, Obsidian is made up of guys from Black Isle, the guys who made Planescape Torment, Fallout 1(?) and 2
 
An adventure game being brought to us by the king of adventure games? Here's my money tim. You deserve it. This is probably the only scenario i can see right now where kickstarters are going to see a lot of success. He hasn't made a bad game in my eyes and, honestly, now that this is fan's money and not some company's, he's probably going to make extra sure this game doesn't suck. I expect this to one of his best games, if not his best. The only thing like this i can possibly see being successful is iff there was a fund for a new earthbound game and making sure that it actually comes stateside.

You know what i think would be awesome? If they now made the game and gave everyone who donated their money back with a not on it that says "thanks for being great"
 
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[quote name='justasplanned']Finish Alpha Protocol

also, Obsidian is made up of guys from Black Isle, the guys who made Planescape Torment, Fallout 1(?) and 2[/QUOTE]
If I'm not mistaken, they weren't "officially" Black Isle when they were making Fallout 1, but were instead just a part of Interplay. The same team (minus the people who left to create the short-lived but mostly awesome Troika) made Fallout 2, uber-RPG Planescape Torment, and the Icewind Dale games under the Black Isle name.

Ain't Obsidian supposed to be focused on their South Park RPG, though? I'd love to see a third Knights of the Old Republic out of them once that's done with. Sith Lords was flawed as fuck, but they were going in a pretty interesting direction that Bioware just ain't capable of.
 
For months before this whole Double Fine thing happened, I was thinking if it'd be possible to build an entire company around this concept. And now I'm even more curious if it could be done.

Although, I was thinking more along the lines of localizing things rather than making all-new things, but sort of the same idea.

Granted, I have no idea how much it could cost to localize a game, and I'm sure just the cost of licensing would be multiple millions.
 
A bit more news.

First, an interview with Greg Rice, the producer of Double Fine Adventure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YAaEA6XOz0


Then, Kickstarter Update #2:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66710809/double-fine-adventure/posts/180150

Basically, they've added several more rewards, including Documentary OST, Documentary DVD/Blu-ray, and a book of game art.


Finally, as mentioned in the update, a 35 minute conversation between Ron Gilbert and Tim Schafer about adventure games in general, and this game specifically (recorded before the kickstarter went live).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re_LWmRJK-g
 
Kickstarter Update #3, from 2 Player productions, detailing how the documentary will work:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../183370?ref=email&show_token=11f846498d7c08eb

Then, a lengthy article detailing the making of the pitch video (basically like a transcribed commentary track):
http://2playerproductions.com/blog/levering/327-making-the-pitch

Outtakes from the pitch video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo5eIQ51Rn8


Finally, Tim will be doing an “Ask Me Anything” on Reddit this Sunday, March 4th, from 1pm to 3pm PST.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/
 
Here's the Ask Me Anything from March 4th:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/qhk98/i_am_a_tim_schafer_ask_me_about_loom_or_anything/


Only 26 hours left on this kickstarter, and it's at $2.8 million pledged from 77,000 backers.

Kickstater Update post:
Update #4: Shirts and Stuff
Posted 3 days ago
With only four days left until the end of the Double Fine Adventure Kickstarter Campaign, we bring you Mr. Tim Schafer himself for some very important announcements:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycZhmnfJgtY


Or maybe you don't have time for all this video nonsense. In that case, let me break it down for you using three cute little bullet points:

• The Collector's Edition will be packaged in a cardboard box reminiscent of the old school games we all know and love. It will be awesome.

• Mr. Schafer himself will be signing all of the Double Fine Adventure books. He'll also gently caress all of their bindings. I mean, if you're into it.

• We've added a fancy new shirt to the $100 tier so you may show the world how amazing you are. Check it out!:
v3ekvm.jpg

All of these fabulous rewards will only be made available to backers, so get them while you can!

We love you! Like, too much.
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10 hours left, and they've broken $3 million, from approx. 80,000 backers.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66710809/double-fine-adventure/posts/189200
Update #5: The Final Countdown
Posted about 11 hours ago
It's less than 24 hours until the end of our Kickstarter campaign, and we're rapidly approaching $3,000,000. This is cause for celebration! Please join us tomorrow as we count down the final minutes until we embark on this crazy adventure. It all begins at 3:00 pm PDT [6:00PM EDT] right here:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/double-fine-adventure

To those of you who have backed the project, thank you so much! We'll see you soon on the backer forums!

To those of you who haven't yet backed the project, there's still time! Many of these rewards will only be made available to backers, so act now if you don't want to miss out. We've been hearing from a lot of folks that would like to back the project, but are unable to do so because they are outside of the US and do not have a credit card. Well, here's Tim Schafer to the rescue with information on how to obtain a pre-paid credit card to back the project:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbXygxSObUQ


An important detail-in order for your payment to go through with a pre-paid credit card, you must add $1 more to the card than you are pledging. More details can be found here:
http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/5981

And if we could make one last request, please do not refresh the Kickstarter page in the final minutes, as we don't want to break Kickstarter again during this high traffic time. Plus, the party is going to be over on Ustream!

SEE YOU TOMORROW!!!!!!
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Tim is so funny.

I really liked that Haloween game he did.

If he ever does a kickstarter for a console game I will probably chip in. I hope this one doesn't disappoint...
 
Costume Quest? That wasn't a Tim Schafer game. Tasha Harris, who did one of the Double Fine comics on their site, was the lead on that game and has since left the company.
 
Double Fine has just announced the ability for latecomers to back their project, basically an extended pre-order like for Wasteland 2 and LSL:
Starting today we are allowing latecomers (let's call them "Slacker Backers") to support the project through PayPal. They will only have access to the $15 tier--the game and the development updates--while all physical rewards remain completely exclusive to you punctual types.

We think this is a good way to help the project while keeping special rewards like the t-shirt, poster, and big box one-time-only deals.
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The site for pre-ordering is:
http://www.doublefine.com/dfa/


As a bonus, they've released the first episode of the documentary to the general public, with a new intro by Tim Shafer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMbQRnoxZ2E

They also have sent some press an image of the upcoming game in the form of a jigsaw puzzle, although some had better luck assembling it than others...
http://kotaku.com/5909338/so-far-ron-gilberts-next-adventure-game-is-way-over-my-head
 
Through a rather strange, non-gaming related and top-secret set of circumstances I actually met an illustrator who was contracted for this project. That's all I have to contribute to this thread really....I'm worthless.

Well that, and the fact that I still can't believe they're paying $100,000 for this documentary. It's a fun watch because Tim Schaefer is a funny guy, but this does not seem like a project that requires 100k to create...
 
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