Help me build my computer

heffaji

heffaji

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Edit1-Just updated it with what I have currently, making it a full build now

Ok, here is what I'd like to do and the situation I'm in. I'm looking to spend between $1500-$1700 on a new computer, sans monitor and speakers. Anything else I'm looking to purchase new. Like nearly anyone on a gaming site, I'm looking to use the computer for gaming purposes. Since I don't expect to have the money to start anew several years from now, I'd like to have a computer that will run things well while allowing me to make upgrades if neccessary to keep up with how things change in the future.

But, I have nearly no knowledge when it comes to what is good and bad with modern PC components. I've looked around on my own and put together a build based on what seems to be the right ideas. I'll be putting this computer together myself, so one of my main concerns is that all the components will work together. Also, I'd like to be sure that I'm not purchasing anything that's cost outweighs the benefits in performance over a lesser model. In that area, I'm mostly wondering if the graphics card I have listed below is worth it's price in performance over something like the ATI All-In-Wonder X1800 XL

When it comes to an optical drive, I'm uncertain if there is any specific manufacturer I should be looking to purchase from, since everything appears to be fairly similar in terms of performance. As for the other two, I'm entirely unsure what I'll need in order to fit and power the computer, so I'd appreciate some advice there.

Anyway, thanks in advance and here is what I have so far.

CASE
COOLER MASTER CM Stacker STC-T01-UW Black/ Silver Aluminum Bezel, SECC Chassis ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail 158.00

POWER
COOLER MASTER Real Power RS-450-ACLY ATX12V 450W Power Supply 90 - 264V Nemko / TUV / cUL / CE / CNS - Retail 73.00

PROCESSOR
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester 1GHz FSB 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core Processor - Retail 400

MOTHERBOARD
ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail 153.00

GRAPHICS CARD
3D Fuzion 3DFW78256GTX Geforce 7800GTX 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - OEM 459.00

OPTICAL DRIVE
LITE-ON Black 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 4X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache IDE DVD Burner - Retail 44.99

MEMORY
CORSAIR XMS 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model TWINX1024-3200C2 - Retail 99.00
CORSAIR XMS 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model TWINX1024-3200C2 - Retail 99.00

STORAGE
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 250GB Hard Drive - 99.00
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 250GB Hard Drive - 99.00


Total=1683.99
 
From newegg.com:
$400 for the processor and $450 for the GPU, $100 for the RAM, $230 for the HDD (~$115 each), and $160 for the mobo. Leaves you with a total bill of $1340 so far, and leaves you with $160 for a case, PSU, and optical drive...

Should be possible... the GPU requires a minimum PSU of at least 400 watts, so you'd probably want at least 450-500 watt PSU which should be around $50-70, an NEC optical drive that reads/burns almost all formats is around $60. The case can range from $30 to $150... depending what you want.
 
You seem to be doing an excellent job finding information on your own. I figured I could point you in the direction of a site that helped me out (in case you don't know about it yet). http://www.anandtech.com/ is a great resource for finding deals. Just check out the "guides" section of the site. They tend to have up to date pricing on everything you should need except maybe cases and power supplies. I have heard alot of good about Lian-Li cases and Antec PSU's. You should look at a PSU with 450+ watts if you plan on using newer video cards and extra periph's (yeah, I call 'em periph's, baby. You should do it too!).
Ok, I have a bit of the ol' booze in me, so I can't vouche for my spelling/info, so I leave this in more capable hands. Yay!!
 
So, what advice do you need, exactly? Or are you just looking for a validation of the pieces you already selected?
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']So, what advice do you need, exactly? Or are you just looking for a validation of the pieces you already selected?[/QUOTE]

I think he's wondering about the compatibility of all the hardware... like will the processor, HDD, GPU, etc. work with the mobo and whatnot. As far as I can see, everything looks good.
 
[quote name='Vinny']I think he's wondering about the compatibility of all the hardware... like will the processor, HDD, GPU, etc. work with the mobo and whatnot. As far as I can see, everything looks good.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much. I'd also like to be sure that I'm not paying more for a particular component then is necessary. By that, I mean where while I could pay for the best graphic card there is, the gains in performance in relation to it's higher price are not really worth it over a lesser model. That's what I'm still uncertain of, in addition to being positive that everything will meld together.
 
Check out a 3800+ dual core. The difference in price may warrant the 13 seconds you wait to encode a two hour audio clip or the 1.1 FPS difference on Doom 3.

Also, $158 and $73 on the Case and Power Supply are ridiculous. Try an Enermax PSU (can be had for around $30 some) and there are plenty of lesser expensive cases out there that will do the trick just as well. I mean, even Antec cases are less money than that on average.

Also, unless you want to spend another $400-some on a second video card (has to be exactly the same) find the non-SLI version of that motherboard, since it will be less money. Also, the Deluxe version you have listed doesn't seem to include that much more stuff. I see two doohickeys that I cannot identify. As far as I can tell, it's just a lot more crap than is really necessary. The regular non-deluxe SLI board also has firewire. So, if you need firewire and want to save about $4 on a firewire card (122-109 = $13. Firewire card will be about $17 with shipping), then the non-deluxe SLI board is where it's at.
 
I agree with the post above... that processor is more than you really need. A 3800 is probably sufficient to give you to of the line performance for at least a year or two. Cut back a bit on a slower processor and when the time comes, you can just get a better 939 processor.:)

As for the case and PSU: the case is really personal taste I think, but since you'll have to buy a PSU due to your GPU, get one without a PSU (since most cases come with crappy PSUs) to save money. I always like to think that skimping out the PSU is a bad idea, find one that has a good rating and plenty of reviews.

And buy everything from newegg.com. Best prices on computer hardware and unbeatable service.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']Check out a 3800+ dual core. The difference in price may warrant the 13 seconds you wait to encode a two hour audio clip or the 1.1 FPS difference on Doom 3.

Also, $158 and $73 on the Case and Power Supply are ridiculous. Try an Enermax PSU (can be had for around $30 some) and there are plenty of lesser expensive cases out there that will do the trick just as well. I mean, even Antec cases are less money than that on average.

Also, unless you want to spend another $400-some on a second video card (has to be exactly the same) find the non-SLI version of that motherboard, since it will be less money. Also, the Deluxe version you have listed doesn't seem to include that much more stuff. I see two doohickeys that I cannot identify. As far as I can tell, it's just a lot more crap than is really necessary. The regular non-deluxe SLI board also has firewire. So, if you need firewire and want to save about $4 on a firewire card (122-109 = $13. Firewire card will be about $17 with shipping), then the non-deluxe SLI board is where it's at.[/QUOTE]

Ok, thanks for the help. I really appreciate it. Now, I also have a few questions concerning the above:

1.In terms of case, should I be concerned if it is BTX compatible? From what I've read, it appears as though this format isn't going to take, but is it worth the risk to not be able to switch if things go that way?

2.Likewise, is there little chance of SLI being utilized?

3.As you suggested, I was looking for another PSU. Before I nail one down, should I be looking for a 450W product, or is that amount unnecessary?
 
You need an ATX case, as your motherboard's ATX.

The NEC is the best DVD burner.

Wattage means nothing regarding a PSU. Amps on the 12volt rail are what's important. I don't think your $73 PSU is overkill at all. In truth, it's midrange and has nice amps on the 12v.

SLI is for dual video cards. If you aren't getting two, it's needless.
 
[quote name='heffaji']Ok, thanks for the help. I really appreciate it. Now, I also have a few questions concerning the above:

1.In terms of case, should I be concerned if it is BTX compatible? From what I've read, it appears as though this format isn't going to take, but is it worth the risk to not be able to switch if things go that way?

2.Likewise, is there little chance of SLI being utilized?

3.As you suggested, I was looking for another PSU. Before I nail one down, should I be looking for a 450W product, or is that amount unnecessary?[/QUOTE]

I've not heard anything about BTX, so I don't know. SLI is when you use two video cards in conjunction with each other. If you plan on spending $459 on a second identical graphics card then, I suppose it'd be worth it, otherwise, nah. Also, according to tom's hardware guide, some SLI configurations will run INFERIOR to just running a single video card.

As for the PSU, the wattage is important. Not enough Wattage and your computer will run really funky. Either not starting up, or freezing. Apparently the newer, faster Geforce cards are wattage hogs. I'm just saying the price is high. You can get an Antec PSU for $50 at the same wattage, let alone other good brands. Enermax is one of the inexpensive brands that appears to be recommended all the time.

Also, I want to bring up sound. You may want to consider a sound card (I, personally have an Audigy 1). Doom9 people say that onboard audio can have a problem with electronic noise, bad signal to noise ratio and host of other problems for high fidelity sound. If you're not too concerned, I can understand.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']As for the PSU, the wattage is important. Not enough Wattage and your computer will run really funky. Either not starting up, or freezing. Apparently the newer, faster Geforce cards are wattage hogs. I'm just saying the price is high.[/QUOTE]
No.

Modern computers draw their power from the 12v rail: the CPU takes a good amount, the GPU usually takes more if it's high-end (therefore they aren't "wattage hogs" but "12v rail hogs"). How many watts on a PSU is relatively unimportant by comparison. A 300W Enermax will outperform a 600W generic. Why? Efficiency in giving clean power is one, but the difference between PEAK and CONTINUOUS watts is another, and a bigger one is good brand. Today, all that matters is how many amps are on the 12v. However, more amps means more watts overall, whereas more watts with less amps is deceptive and harmful. This is why wattage is a poor gauge for a PSU, when today the 12v is the most important thing. The price should be high for the system he's building, because with PSUs you get what you pay for. He wants it to last a long time, and he needs a good PSU to do that. Enermax is a good PSU, and I'd easily recommend one of their $80-$100 brands if it's got enough amps on the 12v.

Please do some reading before you give people bad advice.
 
[quote name='P0ldy']Please do some reading before you give people bad advice.[/QUOTE]

300W isn't enough to drive current day computers. 300W wasn't enough to drive computers 5 years ago (as my friend and I discovered to our dismay when trying to run his 1900+ on the previous computer's 300W PSU). There's a difference between where a computer draws the power (12V rail) and how much overall wattage a computer will need. Not to mention, you don't want to run a PSU near it's peak Wattage, just like you don't want to run amplifiers at their peak wattage.

I never discounted how many Amps will run on the 12V rail being important. However, I will not hear that 300W is all you need for a computer like that, since it is simply not true.

Edit: I just went to a PSU calculator here:
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp
The results? 317 Watts MINIMUM! That doesn't include things like fans in the case, USB devices, PCI cards, etc. YOu may suggest a 350W PSU? Wrong! It will take 362 Watts at max load, unless, of course, you think that freezing the computer on any load is a good thing. Let alone GPU load, overclocking or any other sort of thing like that. My recommendation? 450Watts minimum. 500W should be safe.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']300W isn't enough to drive current day computers. 300W wasn't enough to drive computers 5 years ago (as my friend and I discovered to our dismay when trying to run his 1900+ on the previous computer's 300W PSU). There's a difference between where a computer draws the power (12V rail) and how much overall wattage a computer will need. Not to mention, you don't want to run a PSU near it's peak Wattage, just like you don't want to run amplifiers at their peak wattage.[/quote]
That 300W you messed with was probably garbage with virtually NOTHING on the 12v rail, so I don't see how this comment means anything. An Enermax 300W could easily power 5-year-old computers. What are you talking about?

I never discounted how many Amps will run on the 12V rail being important. However, I will not hear that 300W is all you need for a computer like that, since it is simply not true.
Click to expand...
Ok. So, who said a 300W should run that computer? If you're talking about my statement "A 300W Enermax will outperform a 600W generic", that's a general statement-of-fact, not a recommendation. If you'll read, I recommended a 550W Antec PSU.

Edit: I just went to a PSU calculator here:
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp
The results? 317 Watts MINIMUM! That doesn't include things like fans in the case, USB devices, PCI cards, etc. YOu may suggest a 350W PSU? Wrong! It will take 362 Watts at max load, unless, of course, you think that freezing the computer on any load is a good thing. Let alone GPU load, overclocking or any other sort of thing like that. My recommendation? 450Watts minimum. 500W should be safe.
Click to expand...
More irrelevant comments. I never suggested a 300W PSU as you seem to think. But you are suggesting he gets some cheap PSU. Which >$50 PSU with 500W were you thinking of, exactly?
 
[quote name='P0ldy']More irrelevant comments. I never suggested a 300W PSU as you seem to think. But you are suggesting he gets some cheap PSU. Which >$50 PSU with 500W were you thinking of, exactly?[/QUOTE]

A) These are not irrelevent. It shows exactly how much power is needed to run the computer

B) Where did I say that he should get a cheap PSU? (don't confuse the term cheap with inexpensive).

C) The PSU he has listed is above and beyond the price of many good branded PSUs, like enermax and antec, which I ALREADY SAID!

D) Amps determine how much current can run through a wire, not how much POWER. Wattage is POWER. Or, to break it down: Volt-Amps

E) Today, amperage on the 12V rail is more important to items that are powerhungry, but wattage is still a key factor to be looked at since, as I already eluded, more items are become more powerhungry. Processors are requiring more and more Wattages to run correctly.

F) A 300W Enermax will most likely NOT outperform a 600W Generic PSU. A 300W Enermax, however, will probably outlive the Generic PSU. Of course, a 300W Enermax will barely power anything anymore, except for the smallest of computers, or older computers with older components.

[quote name='P0ldy']That 300W you messed with was probably garbage with virtually NOTHING on the 12v rail, so I don't see how this comment means anything. An Enermax 300W could easily power 5-year-old computers. What are you talking about?[/QUOTE]

BZZZZT! Wrong! This computer just required more power than 300W was able to give up at peak performance.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']A) These are not irrelevent. It shows exactly how much power is needed to run the computer[/quote]
No, you wrongly took the fact that I said "300W" somewhere in my post and built a strawman argument around it attempting to prove my "recommendation," as you perceived it, wrong. Unfortunately, you didn't read what I wrote, and backpedaled to "it's just an explanation of what he needs." The fact that you dodged my responce when I restated this plainly in my previous post (but quoted the other two things) is further evidence. Please stop acting like a child.

The PSU calculator, if it's the one I'm thinking of, shows you prima facie exactly why you shouldn't judge a PSU by its wattage like you constantly do. Saying you didn't "[discount] how many Amps will run on the 12V rail being important" is surely a joke.

B) Where did I say that he should get a cheap PSU? (don't confuse the term cheap with inexpensive).
Click to expand...
Don't confuse the pejorative sense of 'cheap' with the inexpensive sense. Nevertheless, recommending a $30 Enermax is nonsensical because, while it is a good brand, it won't adequately power this computer. And likewise, a $50 Antec won't have those specs, which I can tell you haven't bothered to look up and just looked at the watts, which you apparently think is most important.

C) The PSU he has listed is above and beyond the price of many good branded PSUs, like enermax and antec, which I ALREADY SAID!
Click to expand...
Do you have a point, at all? There are "many good branded PSUs" that the price is NOT beyond.

D) Amps determine how much current can run through a wire, not how much POWER. Wattage is POWER. Or, to break it down: Volt-Amps
Click to expand...
And...? Do you usually insert random comments that don't contradict anything I've said? Paraphrasing your latest Google search that has no relevance. Gold.

F) A 300W Enermax will most likely NOT outperform a 600W Generic PSU.
Click to expand...
Yeah, right. Sagging rails decrease performance. In gaming, there could be 15-20fps increase with a good PSU as opposed to junk like a 600W generic.

BZZZZT! Wrong! This computer just required more power than 300W was able to give up at peak performance.
Click to expand...
Sure it did. Unless you provide some actual tests and specs, this is anecdotal evidence and irrelevant.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. OP, you've got a great looking PC there, but please don't skimp on the PSU. It's arguably the most important part of your system, and you want it to run strongly for the next few years. I'd check out Dave's thread and take a selection from there.
 
[quote name='P0ldy']No, you wrongly took the fact that I said "300W" somewhere in my post and built a strawman argument around it attempting to prove my "recommendation," as you perceived it, wrong. Unfortunately, you didn't read what I wrote, and backpedaled to "it's just an explanation of what he needs." The fact that you dodged my responce when I restated this plainly in my previous post (but quoted the other two things) is further evidence. Please stop acting like a child.[/QUOTE]

550W for $95? Above and beyond what he actually needs. How about 450W Antec for $67?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103936
Or just looking around for other stores out there with better deals?

Anyways, if I'm not mistaken, you're the one that started all the finger pointing. Don't shift the blame to me. That being said, you said that a 300W PSU would out perform a Generic 600W PSU. However, I'm pretty sure that all but the most retarded 600W PSUs will run this rig, whereas a 300W could not in any way shape or form run this rig.

[quote name='P0ldy'] The PSU calculator, if it's the one I'm thinking of, shows you prima facie exactly why you shouldn't judge a PSU by its wattage like you constantly do. Saying you didn't "[discount] how many Amps will run on the 12V rail being important" is surely a joke.[/QUOTE]

Is it now? Why not point me in the direction where I allegedly discounted the 12V rail?

[quote name='P0ldy'] Don't confuse the pejorative sense of 'cheap' with the inexpensive sense. Nevertheless, recommending a $30 Enermax is nonsensical because, while it is a good brand, it won't adequately power this computer. And likewise, a $50 Antec won't have those specs, which I can tell you haven't bothered to look up and just looked at the watts, which you apparently think is most important.[/QUOTE]

I bought a $50 450W Antec Power Supply over at Microcenter a month back to replace the PSU in my mom's computer. Just because it's not $50 at newegg doesn't mean it won't be $50 anywhere else.


[quote name='P0ldy'] Do you have a point, at all? There are "many good branded PSUs" that the price is NOT beyond.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying that spending $85 on PSU is too much, when other PSUs can be had for a lot less

[quote name='P0ldy'] And...? Do you usually insert random comments that don't contradict anything I've said? Paraphrasing your latest Google search that has no relevance. Gold.[/QUOTE]
It shows you just don't understand what Amperage, Voltage and Wattage actually is! Wattage is power (work over time). Voltage is essentially the force of the electricity and Amperage is the current. Wattage = Voltage * Amperage, and voltage remains quite constant (minor fluxuations at about .01 Volts). THerefore, more wattage means more Amperage. If you have a high wattage PSU, you're going to have a high amperage on the 12V rail. It's JUST that simple. You can go on about the quality of the actual components within the PSU, but don't think that somehow the PSU is going to limit the amount of Amperage on a 12V rail, or that somehow a 300W PSU is going to be able to provide more amperage on a 12V rail than a 600W PSU.


[quote name='P0ldy'] Sure it did. Unless you provide some actual tests and specs, this is anecdotal evidence and irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
Actually, it's called Empirical evidence, and Empirical evidence is typically the most powerful form of evidence.
 
I said:
And likewise, a $50 Antec won't have those specs, which I can tell you haven't bothered to look up and just looked at the watts, which you apparently think is most important.
Click to expand...
to which you said:
I bought a $50 450W Antec Power Supply over at Microcenter a month back to replace the PSU in my mom's computer. Just because it's not $50 at newegg doesn't mean it won't be $50 anywhere else.
Click to expand...
Thanks for proving my point yet again. I said "those specs," which include the 3.3v rail, the 5v rail, and the DUAL 12v rails (go google his PSU and look), not merely some fashionable peak wattage number. You're only comparing the wattage. Thanks, you proved my points that you don't consider the 12v rail at all and are negligent at least when giving advice about a PSU (other times I've seen proper advice). You will not find an Antec for $50 with "those specs."

And you're right, I was pointing fingers because I'm tired of seeing people get bad advice from people who aren't taking everything into consideration.

Anyway, that's all.

PS - Ask a scientist if "empirical evidence" is being able to say you know X to be true without giving any verifiable data or proof. You'll be surprised at the answer.
 
I'd consider spending a bit more and getting 2x 1GB instead of 4x 512mb

4 dimms usually have to be run at 2T command rate, that hurts performance somewhat. It isn't a huge hit, but the better performance of 1T and the ability to add more ram later would be worth the money, imho.

Try this

I have them in my rig and they've been very good :)

Also, for the GTX, I'd recommend the eVGA 7800 GTX 256mb

at $459-469 (459 at the time of this posting, but I think it is usually $469)

eVGA has great support, lifetime warranty and a 90 day trade-up program where you can exchange your card with them and pay the difference to get a better card :)
 
[quote name='Robobandit']I'd consider spending a bit more and getting 2x 1GB instead of 4x 512mb

4 dimms usually have to be run at 2T command rate, that hurts performance somewhat. It isn't a huge hit, but the better performance of 1T and the ability to add more ram later would be worth the money, imho.

Try this

I have them in my rig and they've been very good :)

Also, for the GTX, I'd recommend the eVGA 7800 GTX 256mb

at $459-469 (459 at the time of this posting, but I think it is usually $469)

eVGA has great support, lifetime warranty and a 90 day trade-up program where you can exchange your card with them and pay the difference to get a better card :)[/QUOTE]

Thanks again to everyone so far. A question about the GTX. I see various versions of the 7800 GTX 256 at the same price point made by different companies. Am I getting any real difference in performance depending on which one I choose?
 
Well, some of them include games in the package, some have higher or lower clock rates (some are factory overclocked since the card can handle a speed higher than nvidia's reference specs due to higher quality memory or other parts)

I don't think there is a huge difference. Mainly I just prefer to get brands that more people are familiar with and I have to say that eVGA's website and message boards are filled with posts by their technicians answering questions and helping their customers (or potential customers). They seem like the kind of company that will go out of its way to help if you have a problem.

(One of the engineers made up a pair of custom BIOS for customers who wanted to get better OC performance out of their cards, tested and posted them)

Not to be pimping eVGA, I'm just illustrating some things that separate cards from a company standpoint as well as the actual hardware.
 
[quote name='Robobandit']Well, some of them include games in the package, some have higher or lower clock rates (some are factory overclocked since the card can handle a speed higher than nvidia's reference specs due to higher quality memory or other parts)

I don't think there is a huge difference. Mainly I just prefer to get brands that more people are familiar with and I have to say that eVGA's website and message boards are filled with posts by their technicians answering questions and helping their customers (or potential customers). They seem like the kind of company that will go out of its way to help if you have a problem.

(One of the engineers made up a pair of custom BIOS for customers who wanted to get better OC performance out of their cards, tested and posted them)

Not to be pimping eVGA, I'm just illustrating some things that separate cards from a company standpoint as well as the actual hardware.[/QUOTE]

That's what I've been noticing. I've been browsing a few boards and the vast majority of people have backed eVGA as well, so I'll probably end up going that route.
 
As far as the whole power supply debate goes--you are fine, just stick with a good trusted name in the industry as far as PS's go and like someone else said before, make sure it's got juice on the 12V.

My Shuttle SN25P has a 350 Watt and can take everything I throw at it including Raptors/7800's. It's all about efficiency of the actual unit, and not the wattage #. Most of the ones boasting about 600+watts are just listing peak anyway.

As far as the choice on the 7800GTX is concerned, go with eVGA. They stand behind their products 100% and even let you claim your warranty if you changed the stock cooler to an aftermarket one and something goes wrong with the card itself.

I also back the statement of getting 2x 1gb ram modules, as someone else has said, running 4 dimms usually results in 2T timings.
 
[quote name='JDMxB'] Most of the ones boasting about 600+watts are just listing peak anyway.[/QUOTE]

I think just about all PSUs list their peak wattages.
 
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