Holy Badman! (aka Namaikida) Coming Stateside! - Demo Out Now

My big thing about this whole DD thing is that once I download the game it has no monetary value anymore. If it were a game like Disgaea 2 that I love and will be playing for hours on end then that would be ok. But for a game like Badman that I may or may not like there is no way I would buy a digital copy. At least with a UMD I could trade/rent/sell if I didn't get into the game.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']:lol: once again at the random DD hate.

If anything, I'm surprised people aren't happy the UMD is being phased out.[/QUOTE]

So, you're a CAG that likes the idea of removing the used game market?

Regardless, I heard the game will likely get a UMD release in Europe in the fall. I'll be waiting for that. Might not be as cheap as the DD...but there's a hell of a lot better chance I'll eventually be able to get my money back out of it if I want.
 
[quote name='darkwingduck13']So, you're a CAG that likes the idea of removing the used game market?

Regardless, I heard the game will likely get a UMD release in Europe in the fall. I'll be waiting for that. Might not be as cheap as the DD...but there's a hell of a lot better chance I'll eventually be able to get my money back out of it if I want.[/QUOTE]

CAGs like used game deals...but if you look at the majority of the listings in the deals forum they are for new copies of games. Just look at all the Steam deals...DD offers a lot for CAGs in up front savings, so that we may no longer have to worry about resale value.
 
[quote name='TctclMvPhase']CAGs like used game deals...but if you look at the majority of the listings in the deals forum they are for new copies of games. Just look at all the Steam deals...DD offers a lot for CAGs in up front savings, so that we may no longer have to worry about resale value.[/QUOTE]

The thing with console DD is totally different from Steam, though. Steam has competition with various B&M stores, along with other online DD services, so they have reason to push good deals.

If the UMD is totally eliminated, where are you going to get your games other than the PSN? Nowhere. There won't be any hardcopies in stores for people to discount against the online competition. There will be no used game market. There will be no online competition, because PSN is the ONLY place you'll be able to get the games.

I'm just saying that there's going to be a LOT less competition, and when you remove the competition on price, the need/drive to reduce prices is going to go with it.

People claim that DD results in lower prices on games, too, but for the most part, that's not significantly true. Even with the removal of distribution, packaging, production of physical media...I bet we don't see any real lowering of initial price on games. $5-10 at most on a $39.99 title, and that's if anything at all!

Anyway, my bitch about the removal of the used games market doesn't have anything to do with buying copies off the forums here. I'm talking about all the local game stores in my area, and all over the state. Do you think I want to see the used copies dry up there? I can walk into any one of 3 or 4 shops in my area and buy a complete, used copy of Star Ocean 2 for PSP for $14.95, and I have been able to do that for months, long before Amazon or Best Buy or anyone else dropped the price below $29.99 for a new copy. I'm sure I'm not the only one, either. I don't think any of us really want to lose that option.
 
[quote name='darkwingduck13']So, you're a CAG that likes the idea of removing the used game market?

Regardless, I heard the game will likely get a UMD release in Europe in the fall. I'll be waiting for that. Might not be as cheap as the DD...but there's a hell of a lot better chance I'll eventually be able to get my money back out of it if I want.[/QUOTE]

The best form of DD I've seen is the apple App Store system. If most DD was handled the same way by devs, you wouldn't even give a shit about used.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']The best form of DD I've seen is the apple App Store system. If most DD was handled the same way by devs, you wouldn't even give a shit about used.[/QUOTE]

Right up until the company goes out of business or they decide it's more profitable to disable the store and force everybody to rebuy all their software. :D

Until it's completely open, and they allow you to back up your legally purchased software without all the hacking bullshit, DD is and will only be yet one more way for the companies to try to control the consumer.

If you trust a company to do the right thing, you're already screwed. I've still got NES carts I can play. I own those games. I can trade them with friends. I can sell them. I can rebuy them. I can play them on any NES that I want. The same goes for all my other physical media.

Bottom line: I like being free to do whatever I want with the things that I buy. I like owning something once I've paid money for it. For that reason alone (and it's by far not the only one), I will always "give a shit about used."
 
Apple was supposedly pulling a certain game I forget which, that was free from best buy or something? Hell MS pulled Yaris from the market to after awhile. I'll always be content if I can re-download things 20 years down the line, but whos to say they can't disable your copy if you connect online, or like KOF somehow disable multiplayer without buying a newer version? It can happen.
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']Apple was supposedly pulling a certain game I forget which, that was free from best buy or something? Hell MS pulled Yaris from the market to after awhile. I'll always be content if I can re-download things 20 years down the line, but whos to say they can't disable your copy if you connect online, or like KOF somehow disable multiplayer without buying a newer version? It can happen.[/QUOTE]

QFMotherF'nT!

Mack gets it. What you give up when you go the route of DD is control. Control, freedom, whatever you want to call it. There's no arguing this point. It's a basic truth. Nobody knows what the company will do 5 or 10 years down the line. With DD, they can screw you over and they'll still have your money...and you'll have already agreed to some shitty EULA when you signed up that says they can do whatever they want.
 
[quote name='darkwingduck13']Right up until the company goes out of business or they decide it's more profitable to disable the store and force everybody to rebuy all their software. :D

Until it's completely open, and they allow you to back up your legally purchased software without all the hacking bullshit, DD is and will only be yet one more way for the companies to try to control the consumer.

If you trust a company to do the right thing, you're already screwed. I've still got NES carts I can play. I own those games. I can trade them with friends. I can sell them. I can rebuy them. I can play them on any NES that I want. The same goes for all my other physical media.

Bottom line: I like being free to do whatever I want with the things that I buy. I like owning something once I've paid money for it. For that reason alone (and it's by far not the only one), I will always "give a shit about used."[/QUOTE]

SO what happens to your NES collection when it starts to fail? Are you going to send that to Nintendo and they are going to just give you a replacement? IF anything DD has better longevity than a physical copy, because physical copies degrade over time. Particularly from the PSN you have unlimited downloads, so feel free to make back up copies. All you have to do is put in an extra memory stick and you have your back-ups...

Your precious physical media represents a finite rescource and as such it has a defined level of scarcity. As time goes on the scarcity increases as titles fail, which raises prices. You may love your physical media and your used market in the short term, but anyone who was late to the game on say FFVII is out of luck for a physical copy unless they wanted to spend over $60 for it. Yet Sony is able to offer it for only $9.99. By your previous argument this should not have occured, because the PSN would only need to compete with the physical copies sold in stores, thus by your own logic they should have been charging up to a few dollars less than those used copies...yet they dont.

The lack of scarcity for DD is also why your previous argument about pricing was flawed. Sony wants to get maximum profit for the titles they sell. Thus as sales for a title slows, they have every reason to lower the price of the digital copy in order to squeeze a few more sales out of a title. Because there is no scarcity, prices only go down and never climb back up. It is also worth noting that the costs of packaging, shipping and inventory risk are not insignificant as the two DD only examples on the PSN have been sold at a 33% reduction from normal retail price for a PSP game.
 
I wondered how long it would take for this argument to come up. Let me break it down for you:

[quote name='TctclMvPhase']SO what happens to your NES collection when it starts to fail? Are you going to send that to Nintendo and they are going to just give you a replacement? IF anything DD has better longevity than a physical copy, because physical copies degrade over time. Particularly from the PSN you have unlimited downloads, so feel free to make back up copies. All you have to do is put in an extra memory stick and you have your back-ups...[/quote]

I can freely back up my NES collection if I'd like. The medium is the only issue here. If I want to back up my PSOne, PS2, etc titles it's even easier...don't even have to have a cart-reader for that. The issue is having the freedom to do so. What are you going to do when your DD copies have a limited number of re-downloads? They're encrypted? They've got flags embedded in them so that if you have an unauthorized "copy" they get shut down next time you go online? The bottom line is that it's not an issue of longevity, it's an issue of OWNING WHAT YOU fuckING PAY FOR. I don't rent games for $20-60 apiece, thanks.

Your precious physical media represents a finite rescource and as such it has a defined level of scarcity. As time goes on the scarcity increases as titles fail, which raises prices. You may love your physical media and your used market in the short term, but anyone who was late to the game on say FFVII is out of luck for a physical copy unless they wanted to spend over $60 for it. Yet Sony is able to offer it for only $9.99. By your previous argument this should not have occured, because the PSN would only need to compete with the physical copies sold in stores, thus by your own logic they should have been charging up to a few dollars less than those used copies...yet they dont.
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That's the risk you run with any product. Prices move up and down. I notice you're also cherry-picking an example of a game that IS NOT NEW and cannot be WIDELY BOUGHT AT RETAIL. Sony SHOULD be able to offer it for $9.99. Less, really, because all you're getting is the ones and zeroes. Thanks for more or less proving my point that having a lack of choices in where to buy a game can lead to bad things happening with the price. I also hope you realize that I wasn't speculating a bit on what the pricing would be for a PSOne Classic title. I was talking about PSP games. Apples and oranges here.

The lack of scarcity for DD is also why your previous argument about pricing was flawed. Sony wants to get maximum profit for the titles they sell. Thus as sales for a title slows, they have every reason to lower the price of the digital copy in order to squeeze a few more sales out of a title. Because there is no scarcity, prices only go down and never climb back up. It is also worth noting that the costs of packaging, shipping and inventory risk are not insignificant as the two DD only examples on the PSN have been sold at a 33% reduction from normal retail price for a PSP game.
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Here you've got a flawed assumption. How do you know what price those two games would have been on UMD? Neither of them are exactly AAA titles. This also sidesteps the real issue of pure digital distribution through a single source removing competition in the marketplace and control from the hands of the consumers.

The ultimate choice will just be whether or not to buy a console/system/device that limits itself solely to "authorized" digital distribution. When the only options for gaming revolve around systems that are limited in that way, I'll likely have to quit the hobby.
 
[quote name='darkwingduck13']I wondered how long it would take for this argument to come up. Let me break it down for you:



I can freely back up my NES collection if I'd like. The medium is the only issue here. If I want to back up my PSOne, PS2, etc titles it's even easier...don't even have to have a cart-reader for that. The issue is having the freedom to do so. What are you going to do when your DD copies have a limited number of re-downloads? They're encrypted? They've got flags embedded in them so that if you have an unauthorized "copy" they get shut down next time you go online? The bottom line is that it's not an issue of longevity, it's an issue of OWNING WHAT YOU fuckING PAY FOR. I don't rent games for $20-60 apiece, thanks.



That's the risk you run with any product. Prices move up and down. I notice you're also cherry-picking an example of a game that IS NOT NEW and cannot be WIDELY BOUGHT AT RETAIL. Sony SHOULD be able to offer it for $9.99. Less, really, because all you're getting is the ones and zeroes. Thanks for more or less proving my point that having a lack of choices in where to buy a game can lead to bad things happening with the price. I also hope you realize that I wasn't speculating a bit on what the pricing would be for a PSOne Classic title. I was talking about PSP games. Apples and oranges here.



Here you've got a flawed assumption. How do you know what price those two games would have been on UMD? Neither of them are exactly AAA titles. This also sidesteps the real issue of pure digital distribution through a single source removing competition in the marketplace and control from the hands of the consumers.

The ultimate choice will just be whether or not to buy a console/system/device that limits itself solely to "authorized" digital distribution. When the only options for gaming revolve around systems that are limited in that way, I'll likely have to quit the hobby.[/QUOTE]

Your example fails because PSN does allow unlimited downloads as well as back ups as mentioned before (in the post you quoted in fact). Also, be careful who you tell about your backing up practices...because its not actually legal. In order to backup those games (many of which are encrypted by the way) you need to use a program to break the decryption or disc protection in order to copy the contents of the disc. This is illegal because it requires reverse engineering the protection and encryption methods (read your EULA). So while you may think that you have the option to back up your games in case something happens, in the legal sense, you dont. IN other words you can "own" all the "fucking" media that you want but youre still stuck with just one copy. If anything, since PSN allows multiple copies of the download to be made LEGALLY, it is actually better for preserving your collection. If you simply dont care about the legal aspect, then nothing is preventing you from finding ways to back up the DD content either...

As for the FFVII example, it was simply chosen to more clearly illustrate the point. How about instead we use Guilty Gear Judgement, which currently sells for $6.99 on the PSN. Just doing a Google search for prices, there is one copy on Ebay going for that price, with the next cheapest being $13.00. Then we get to major retail outlets with the cheapest being $12.99 from Gamestop for the USED version. Is that orange enough for you?

ALso as I mentioned in my own post there are two factors that affect price and thats supply and demand, so by removing the supply aspect (DD games have a practically infinite number of copies) you will no longer see the prices of rare games go up. SO unlike your used market you wont get the same fluctuations that have made owning a title, like FFVII or as a more recent example just about any Atlus title, ridiculously expensive. It will likely start out cheaper (due to lower costs up front) and only get cheaper with time.

Finally you are correct about the assumptions as far as Patapon 2 goes. However, Amazon has had a listing for a long time for HIoPB (before it decided to go DD) and it was in fact $29.99.

I think Rolento's point about the app store is a very valid one as well. DD lowers the barriers of entry for small producers, such as in the case of Unbound Saga, you get a competition effect similar to retail chains. You now have an increased supply of alternative titles and thus titles will try to set their prices lower in order to capture the market. RIght now your choices are limited with DD on the PSN, but as it becomes more widespread prices will decrease. If Sony follows thorugh with their rumored App Store knock-off, then it is even better for prices because then the full retail games have to compete with the small casual games for the same set of dollars. The reason why the App Store has such ridiculously low prices even when compared to similar games on PSN or XBLA is because there are so many of them. A saturated market will lead to lower prices.
 
[quote name='TctclMvPhase']Your example fails because PSN does allow unlimited downloads as well as back ups as mentioned before (in the post you quoted in fact). Also, be careful who you tell about your backing up practices...because its not actually legal. In order to backup those games (many of which are encrypted by the way) you need to use a program to break the decryption or disc protection in order to copy the contents of the disc. This is illegal because it requires reverse engineering the protection and encryption methods (read your EULA). So while you may think that you have the option to back up your games in case something happens, in the legal sense, you dont. IN other words you can "own" all the "fucking" media that you want but youre still stuck with just one copy. If anything, since PSN allows multiple copies of the download to be made LEGALLY, it is actually better for preserving your collection. If you simply dont care about the legal aspect, then nothing is preventing you from finding ways to back up the DD content either...[/quote]

I can't recall ever agreeing to a EULA on a console game, and your way of saying the PSN allows "unlimited" downloads is pretty farcical. As far as I'm aware, you only get so many "activations" before you're screwed. Also, their backup function seems very useful in case you fry your PS3: http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=3875645

I don't care how many "activations" you get for redownloading. It's not the point. The point is that it's a limitation. You still don't own what you paid for. I'm not "activating" any of my PS2 games before I play them.

As for the FFVII example, it was simply chosen to more clearly illustrate the point. How about instead we use Guilty Gear Judgement, which currently sells for $6.99 on the PSN. Just doing a Google search for prices, there is one copy on Ebay going for that price, with the next cheapest being $13.00. Then we get to major retail outlets with the cheapest being $12.99 from Gamestop for the USED version. Is that orange enough for you?
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Not really. Did it debut for sale at $6.99? Is it a new, exclusive PSN release? No, it was released in like 2006. It's the PSP version of the Final Fantasy VII argument. I did not make any predictions about the long-term effects on price by the PSN-exclusive releases! I stated that a new, exclusive PSN release isn't likely to be as cheap as you'd expect, given the removal of overhead for getting the game into your hands. I also freely phrased it as speculation.

ALso as I mentioned in my own post there are two factors that affect price and thats supply and demand, so by removing the supply aspect (DD games have a practically infinite number of copies) you will no longer see the prices of rare games go up. SO unlike your used market you wont get the same fluctuations that have made owning a title, like FFVII or as a more recent example just about any Atlus title, ridiculously expensive. It will likely start out cheaper (due to lower costs up front) and only get cheaper with time.
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This part of your argument is (in theory) true, to a point. I'll argue that owning a title like FFVII is not necessarily expensive at all if you're willing to wait for the right price. It's an individual choice (which is what the basis for this discussion is all about, really) as to what the right price is, but the point is you have lots of outlets in which to search and wait for that price to come around. Valkyrie Profile for PSOne for $9.95 was a great price when I found it at one of my game shops. Just because it's hard to find doesn't mean you can't find a good deal on it. The other side of this is that if a game is released on the PSN and then later pulled, no longer available for sale, it might accrue some additional value somehow.

Finally you are correct about the assumptions as far as Patapon 2 goes. However, Amazon has had a listing for a long time for HIoPB (before it decided to go DD) and it was in fact $29.99.

I think Rolento's point about the app store is a very valid one as well. DD lowers the barriers of entry for small producers, such as in the case of Unbound Saga, you get a competition effect similar to retail chains. You now have an increased supply of alternative titles and thus titles will try to set their prices lower in order to capture the market. RIght now your choices are limited with DD on the PSN, but as it becomes more widespread prices will decrease. If Sony follows thorugh with their rumored App Store knock-off, then it is even better for prices because then the full retail games have to compete with the small casual games for the same set of dollars. The reason why the App Store has such ridiculously low prices even when compared to similar games on PSN or XBLA is because there are so many of them. A saturated market will lead to lower prices.
Click to expand...

I just want to clear something up: I'm not trolling here. I think DD could be a great thing if implemented correctly. However, with the current way companies are implementing DD, there is no way to get around the fact that you're still just trusting a company to do the right thing!

In this case, we're talking about trusting a company who not too long ago installed a ROOTKIT on tons of peoples' PCs. If some junior high school kid had pulled that shit, he'd be in jail right now! There sure as hell won't be any significant repercussions if Sony just remotely disables someone's PSP games from playing.

As it stands, the only company who does DD that I've intentionally supported is http://www.gog.com. They've got a good philosophy, good support, and when I buy something? It's mine.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']:lol: at this debate.[/QUOTE]

The funny thing? It's not even a debate. I've only said a couple of things that are opinion. :lol:
 
[quote name='darkwingduck13']I can't recall ever agreeing to a EULA on a console game, and your way of saying the PSN allows "unlimited" downloads is pretty farcical. As far as I'm aware, you only get so many "activations" before you're screwed. Also, their backup function seems very useful in case you fry your PS3: http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=3875645

I don't care how many "activations" you get for redownloading. It's not the point. The point is that it's a limitation. You still don't own what you paid for. I'm not "activating" any of my PS2 games before I play them.



Not really. Did it debut for sale at $6.99? Is it a new, exclusive PSN release? No, it was released in like 2006. It's the PSP version of the Final Fantasy VII argument. I did not make any predictions about the long-term effects on price by the PSN-exclusive releases! I stated that a new, exclusive PSN release isn't likely to be as cheap as you'd expect, given the removal of overhead for getting the game into your hands. I also freely phrased it as speculation.



This part of your argument is (in theory) true, to a point. I'll argue that owning a title like FFVII is not necessarily expensive at all if you're willing to wait for the right price. It's an individual choice (which is what the basis for this discussion is all about, really) as to what the right price is, but the point is you have lots of outlets in which to search and wait for that price to come around. Valkyrie Profile for PSOne for $9.95 was a great price when I found it at one of my game shops. Just because it's hard to find doesn't mean you can't find a good deal on it. The other side of this is that if a game is released on the PSN and then later pulled, no longer available for sale, it might accrue some additional value somehow.



I just want to clear something up: I'm not trolling here. I think DD could be a great thing if implemented correctly. However, with the current way companies are implementing DD, there is no way to get around the fact that you're still just trusting a company to do the right thing!

In this case, we're talking about trusting a company who not too long ago installed a ROOTKIT on tons of peoples' PCs. If some junior high school kid had pulled that shit, he'd be in jail right now! There sure as hell won't be any significant repercussions if Sony just remotely disables someone's PSP games from playing.

As it stands, the only company who does DD that I've intentionally supported is http://www.gog.com. They've got a good philosophy, good support, and when I buy something? It's mine.[/QUOTE]

First off, I dont think you are trolling and I really appreciate your side of the argument and you have made many good points (and done so in civilized manner far too rare on the internet).While I do see where you are coming from I think my main issue is that I feel the extent of the damage caused by DD is being completely overblown. When it comes down to it, Sony wants to sell as many copies of their games as possible and while I can see situations where a used market may offer a low cost alternative, I have also seen situations where it causes higher costs.

Anyways, the activation issue only applies to how many consoles you can simultaneously have the content on (which is what allows gamesharing, which I havent touched on but effectively reduces the costs of ownership of new titles to a mere 1/5th of their release price and is completely legal).

For backing up with PSP, take your PSP memory stick, download the game and then take a different memory stick and there you have the back up and this can be done unlimitied number of times. Under current circumstances this isnt even necessary as PSN does allow unlimited downloads to any of the five machines attached to your account. The PS3 is different and the thread you linked to is onyl a criticism of the back up utility, which in the directions for the PS3 does clarify that said utility is only for harddrive upgrades. As mentioned further down in the same thread, the solution is simply to redownload your games as the PSN does allow the unlimited downloads I mentioned before.

As far as the EULA, it is in every game and while you may not see it, it is there. Several games will simply mention it in the manual, Team Ninja games used to display it before their opening cinematic or it is common for PC games to have it displayed just before you install. I believe the PS2 also included a general EULA in the console's user manual. Regardless, if it requires using a tool to circumvent the licensed hardware (your console) or data encryption, then it is illegal. (I believe the specific piece of legislation is the DMMCA)

As for Guilty Gear it did debut on the PSN for $6.99. However, it also did not go straight to DD. This point of contention may need to be held off until we have a significant number of releases that are released as DD and retail simulataneously in order to compare. Your point that you found a game for cheaper just by searching is not necessarily valid, because economically speaking time is a resource just like money and searching for a better price may lower the monetary cost but raises the cost in real terms. The time cost is one aspect where DD does have a benefit. If you look over in the Crimson Gem Saga thread there are still people looking for a new copy of the game. With DD, everyone could have had their copy day one.

I echo your love of GOG and think they have a great system. However, I think a big part fo the reason why they dont need to use DRM is based on the types of titles they offer.
 
[quote name='darkwingduck13']The funny thing? It's not even a debate. I've only said a couple of things that are opinion. :lol:[/QUOTE]

When you quote someone and then reply with your opinions reflected on that quote and both sides flip-flop back and forth, that's a debate.

But yeah, please guys don't crap on this thread. it's my baby. DD discussion is better placed somewhere else. Either that or you guys can give each other hugs or dryhump in respectful manner to end this ;)
 
Pretty much why I didn't really post my opinions on the matter earlier as this kind of discussion will pretty much instantly derail any topic it sets foot in. :p

But anyways, yeah, the game is Dungeon Keeper meets Dig Dug. What's not to like? Hot shit. Hot shit indeed.
 
[quote name='darkwingduck13']I can freely back up my NES collection if I'd like. The medium is the only issue here. If I want to back up my PSOne, PS2, etc titles it's even easier...don't even have to have a cart-reader for that. The issue is having the freedom to do so. What are you going to do when your DD copies have a limited number of re-downloads? They're encrypted? They've got flags embedded in them so that if you have an unauthorized "copy" they get shut down next time you go online? The bottom line is that it's not an issue of longevity, it's an issue of OWNING WHAT YOU fuckING PAY FOR. I don't rent games for $20-60 apiece, thanks.[/QUOTE]
Wait, you think backing up NES games is easy, but copying DD games is impossible? Since we're in the PSP forum here, you should note that, for PSP, the answer to each of your questions is no. You buy the game, you transfer it to your PC, and now you have it forever.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']
But yeah, please guys don't crap on this thread. it's my baby. DD discussion is better placed somewhere else. Either that or you guys can give each other hugs or dryhump in respectful manner to end this ;)[/QUOTE]

...so yeah definately excited about this one. Ive decided to forego Steambot to pick this one up instead.

Has anyone played through the entire import yet?I have heard this gets real difficult towards the end.

Was the demo a good indication of gameplay?

Does it ever get repetitive?
 
Why would Gamestop refuse to stock the game? They seem to go for exclusive rights on a tenth of the low selling niche games out there lately.
 
GS? hell they go around getting exclusives for low selling games just so they can jack up the price when people are forced to come to them because they're the only ones WITH the game.

Nao Zook, PR person for NISA said Sony wouldnt allow them to release a UMD and DLC version at the same time until October when the PSPgo came out. I dont know how true that is since Monster Hunter apparently got both but it seems to me like they wanted to make money on the sale of the game as soon as possible with minimal overhead and the DL route sounded best to them. This way they make money one a game that might not sell well and they didnt have to do it with the cost of UMD production. On the other hand there are millions of people out there that wont even touch the game unless a UMD versions appears, myself included.

The reasons are plentiful, the arguments are pointless. The only thing that matters is the sales, If they make enough sales of UMDs they dont have to consider DL only. So you dont want DL versions then dont cave in and buy it until it does come out as UMD.

Which is a shame since I actually found the demo quite fun but I'm not getting into the habit of dropping 20 bucks on data because that sets a dangerous precident for what these companies perceive as value and the next thing you know Capcom is charging us 5 bucks for costume Pallet swaps.
 
[quote name='Alpha2']
Nao Zook, PR person for NISA said Sony wouldnt allow them to release a UMD and DLC version at the same time until October when the PSPgo came out. I dont know how true that is since Monster Hunter apparently got both but it seems to me like they wanted to make money on the sale of the game as soon as possible with minimal overhead and the DL route sounded best to them. This way they make money one a game that might not sell well and they didnt have to do it with the cost of UMD production. On the other hand there are millions of people out there that wont even touch the game unless a UMD versions appears, myself included.

The reasons are plentiful, the arguments are pointless. The only thing that matters is the sales, If they make enough sales of UMDs they dont have to consider DL only. So you dont want DL versions then dont cave in and buy it until it does come out as UMD.

Which is a shame since I actually found the demo quite fun but I'm not getting into the habit of dropping 20 bucks on data because that sets a dangerous precident for what these companies perceive as value and the next thing you know Capcom is charging us 5 bucks for costume Pallet swaps.[/QUOTE]

How dare a game company try to make money on a game...especially one that offers an innovative art style, fresh gameplay and a genuine sense of humor. You show them Alpha-2....you show the world.
 
[quote name='Alpha2']GS? hell they go around getting exclusives for low selling games just so they can jack up the price when people are forced to come to them because they're the only ones WITH the game.

Nao Zook, PR person for NISA said Sony wouldnt allow them to release a UMD and DLC version at the same time until October when the PSPgo came out. I dont know how true that is since Monster Hunter apparently got both but it seems to me like they wanted to make money on the sale of the game as soon as possible with minimal overhead and the DL route sounded best to them. This way they make money one a game that might not sell well and they didnt have to do it with the cost of UMD production. On the other hand there are millions of people out there that wont even touch the game unless a UMD versions appears, myself included.

The reasons are plentiful, the arguments are pointless. The only thing that matters is the sales, If they make enough sales of UMDs they dont have to consider DL only. So you dont want DL versions then dont cave in and buy it until it does come out as UMD.

Which is a shame since I actually found the demo quite fun but I'm not getting into the habit of dropping 20 bucks on data because that sets a dangerous precident for what these companies perceive as value and the next thing you know Capcom is charging us 5 bucks for costume Pallet swaps.[/QUOTE]

Or, again, just wait and import the Euro version when it comes out on UMD.
 
Yeah. I love this game... one of the reasons I decided to grab a PSP recently. But I will say it is very hard, and try and error with the dungeon making can be frustrating. I still love it. Can't get past a certain spot (if I'm lucky, if not then the dungeon I build doesn't get me that far even).
 
How do I beat the last training mission? It talks a lot about using demons to fortify your defense and then tells me to use lizardmen to do a pincer attack to beat the hero, but that doesn't work for me.

I kind of wish there was a save for the main mode, so I could save between stages and tweak my strategies without having to start over. I think that would ultimately let me learn what works much better than starting fresh every single time.
 
Yeah, that's my main complaint. It just doesn't really do a great job of teaching me the mechanics and then giving me good feedback for what I'm doing wrong. I know the overlord dude mentions a few things, but the furthest I've gotten is maybe to the sixth or seventh stage and I'm still figuring out how to properly build paths in the dungeons so I can expand when needed without undermining the structure of the dungeon.

The basic mana ghosts don't replicate, do they? That would help make that side of the food chain/minion tree a bit easier to utilize, as I can get a million slimes and omnoms pretty easily.
 
Ugh. Mana servant food chain is the hardest thing to make work for me. I'll hatch some ghosts and they may die... may make some stronger blocks... usually they end up going into skeletons or portals to make stronger wookiemen or whatever those things are called.

I too wish there was some feedback on what the heck I need to do to make it all work. Can get the slime side of things going no problem. Pain that mana comes from dead heroes.

Anyone have any tips thus far? Maybe as to best creatures to upgrade first etc?
 
Is it true this game can be beaten in 30 minutes? Can anyone confirm how much playtime you can get out of this game.
 
Very scary. I spent the weekend playing the demo over and over. I was frustrated with it at first (no idea how it worked) but due to its quirky nature I wanted to like it.

Got the full game Sunday night, during my Monday commute, within one try, I get up to the final fight in story mode effortlessly. I end up losing because I accidentally carved a shortcut to Badman that the hero took, skipping my entire army.

Sooo...don't spoil yourself on the demo! :lol:
 
[quote name='J7.']Are there other game modes besides story? Are they lengthy?[/QUOTE]

There are challenges where the game puts you in certain scenarios and gives you missions to complete within a time limit, also giving you a score. A lot of people are saying that's where the meat and potatoes of the game is.
 
Damn that makes me want it more again. But I think I'm going to put off the purchase for now. I'll probably get Prinny and hope this does end up coming to UMD or being reduced in price years from now.

I found out this for those wondering about how many challenges:

If anything, the story mode can be used as extended training as the really daunting gameplay comes with the challenges. There are around 30 challenges available and they get increasingly more difficult; defeating them is no easy feat. Unlike the story mode, each challenge starts players off with in a set scenario, so it's a lot more restricted. http://www.gamingunion.net/reviews/...badman-what-did-i-do-to-deserve-this--34.html
 
So my second run on story mode I ended up beating it on a single commute (29mins). Turns out that when you beat the game:
you get a notice that alternating between L and R 5 times will give you a second story mode. This one is said to be much harder and the story is much quirkier. I don't know whether I'm just very good or it's still easy because on my first run I got up to the last boss and then game-paused it. The heroes were definitely stronger but I was still able to split them up and get them killed.

Overall, I think it's a very well spent $10. I was frustrated at the demo but once I figured out how to play the game I'm really enjoying it, it's very addicting.
 
just a small heads up: The sequel to Badman (Namaikida 2... or more like 1.5) is coming stateside. the second release is a million times better than the first due to it actually having legs like a story mode and alternate characters to play as through DLC.
 
Hello everyone!

Happy Friday!

First of all, thank you very much for participating in the Holy Invasion of Privacy, Badman! UMD poll. We have received a lot of votes, and we also received lots of emails from our fans telling us that they really wanted the UMD of Badman. We are now happy to tell you that we've decided to start the preorder for Holy Invasion of Privacy, Badman! on UMD at the RosenQueen store! (The preorder ends on 11/13).

In order to make it possible for us to release Badman on UMD, we will have to receive at least 1,000 preorders by 11/13. We are currently trying to get some support from retailers for this UMD version of Badman, by letting them know that there are many fans who are still interested in the UMD version of Badman! If we could get supoprt from them, we will be able to make the UMD version of Badman even if the preorders at RosenQueen don't reach 1,000!

If you know anybody who wanted to have the UMD version of Badman, let them know about this preorder!
Click to expand...

http://rosenqueen.com/catalog/Holy-Invasion-of-Privacy-Badman-p-16301.html

It begins now and ends November 13. Basically in order for them to justify a run of UMDs they have to get at least 1000 preorders. I know I'm not the only one around here who refused to buy this as a download so here's your chance to make an effort to show your support for physical media.
 
[quote name='Alpha2']http://rosenqueen.com/catalog/Holy-Invasion-of-Privacy-Badman-p-16301.html

It begins now and ends November 13. Basically in order for them to justify a run of UMDs they have to get at least 1000 preorders. I know I'm not the only one around here who refused to buy this as a download so here's your chance to make an effort to show your support for physical media.[/QUOTE]
Well said. Where did you get that expanded info? I was trying to find out if this is only going to be available through Rosenqueen or if it is going to come to some retailers, it sounds like it may not come to retailers.
 
[quote name='Rosenqueen'] We are currently trying to get some support from retailers for this UMD version of Badman, by letting them know that there are many fans who are still interested in the UMD version of Badman! If we could get supoprt from them, we will be able to make the UMD version of Badman even if the preorders at RosenQueen don't reach 1,000. [/QUOTE] .
 
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