How religious are you?

[quote name='rockhero']"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura[/quote]

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.
 
[quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='rockhero']"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura[/quote]

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.[/quote]

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.
 
[quote name='rockhero'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='rockhero']"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura[/quote]

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.[/quote]

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.[/quote]

let us not forget he was an actor as well. :lol:
 
[quote name='rockhero'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='rockhero']"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura[/quote]

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.[/quote]

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.[/quote]

Why would being a SEAL (though, I thought he wasn't and just got grandfathered into the title) make him an authority on religion?
 
[quote name='rockhero'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='rockhero']"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura[/quote]

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.[/quote]

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.[/quote]

I take my advice from experts. Priests, the Pope, clerics, renoun athiests, etc. Men/Women who have basically given thier lives in the pursuit of the spirtual or arguing against it.

An ex-actor/pro wrestler/Navy Seal spouting a weak restatement a marxist doctrine carries no water with me.
 
[quote name='jmcc'][quote name='rockhero'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='rockhero']"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura[/quote]

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.[/quote]

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.[/quote]

Why would being a SEAL (though, I thought he wasn't and just got grandfathered into the title) make him an authority on religion?[/quote]

I was mainly talking about this: "or any matter of any real import"
 
[quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='rockhero'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='rockhero']"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura[/quote]

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.[/quote]

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.[/quote]

I take my advice from experts. Priests, the Pope, clerics, renoun athiests, etc. Men/Women who have basically given thier lives in the pursuit of the spirtual or arguing against it.

An ex-actor/pro wrestler/Navy Seal spouting a weak restatement a marxist doctrine carries no water with me.[/quote]

It's unfortunate that you feel one human being is more worthy than another to give you advise about your spirituality and relationship with God.

It's exactly that kind of attitude that has allowed organized religion to remain the juggernaut that it is, and has been, for thousands of years. Too many people are convinced that only through devotion to their respective church and its "professional" leaders, will they gain happiness in life (and even the afterlife).

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. For the most part, organized religion is nothing more than a method to control large groups of people. People with attitudes like yours only perpetuate the notion of the exclusivity of religion.
 
[quote name='Zoltek99'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='rockhero'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='rockhero']"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura[/quote]

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.[/quote]

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.[/quote]

I take my advice from experts. Priests, the Pope, clerics, renoun athiests, etc. Men/Women who have basically given thier lives in the pursuit of the spirtual or arguing against it.

An ex-actor/pro wrestler/Navy Seal spouting a weak restatement a marxist doctrine carries no water with me.[/quote]

It's unfortunate that you feel one human being is more worthy than another to give you advise about your spirituality and relationship with God.

It's exactly that kind of attitude that has allowed organized religion to remain the juggernaut that it is, and has been, for thousands of years. Too many people are convinced that only through devotion to their respective church and its "professional" leaders, will they gain happiness in life (and even the afterlife).

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. For the most part, organized religion is nothing more than a method to control large groups of people. People with attitudes like yours only perpetuate the notion of the exclusivity of religion.[/quote]

Kind of glossed over that section about "renoun atheists" eh?
Yes, there are exceptions, but if you want to learn about a subject, you go to experts. I mean really, why should I believe people who haven't studied thier beliefs more deeply in matters so important?
 
[quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='Zoltek99'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='rockhero'][quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='rockhero']"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

-- Jesse 'The Body' Ventura[/quote]

The day I take advice on religion, spirituality, or any matter of any real import from an ex-professional wrestler is the day I unload a clip of bullets from an AK47 into my mouth.[/quote]

I'm surprised that you would think that advice from a former navy SEAL and governor is less valid than advice from anyone else.[/quote]

I take my advice from experts. Priests, the Pope, clerics, renoun athiests, etc. Men/Women who have basically given thier lives in the pursuit of the spirtual or arguing against it.

An ex-actor/pro wrestler/Navy Seal spouting a weak restatement a marxist doctrine carries no water with me.[/quote]

It's unfortunate that you feel one human being is more worthy than another to give you advise about your spirituality and relationship with God.

It's exactly that kind of attitude that has allowed organized religion to remain the juggernaut that it is, and has been, for thousands of years. Too many people are convinced that only through devotion to their respective church and its "professional" leaders, will they gain happiness in life (and even the afterlife).

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. For the most part, organized religion is nothing more than a method to control large groups of people. People with attitudes like yours only perpetuate the notion of the exclusivity of religion.[/quote]

Kind of glossed over that section about "renoun atheists" eh?
Yes, there are exceptions, but if you want to learn about a subject, you go to experts. I mean really, why should I believe people who haven't studied thier beliefs more deeply in matters so important?[/quote]

If you want to learn about the history of religion, then yes, experts are probably the best sources.

I didn't gloss over the part about renown atheists. I'm just saying that it's a fallacy to consider that there even exist people who know more about my relationship with God than anyone else does.

Personal beliefs, about God, about religion, about anything, are just that....personal...i.e. subjective. Just because an individual devotes his/her life to "studying his beliefs more deeply", that doesn't give his/her words about about spirituality any more import than the homeless man on the corner of the street or Jesse Ventura, ex-governor and ex-Navy SEAL.
 
[quote name='Zoltek99']Personal beliefs, about God, about religion, about anything, are just that....personal...i.e. subjective. Just because an individual devotes his/her life to "studying his beliefs more deeply", that doesn't give his/her words about about spirituality any more import than the homeless man on the corner of the street or Jesse Ventura, ex-governor and ex-Navy SEAL.[/quote]

Dude, it really depends.

I may be in the minority here, but I think Jesse Ventura is actually a pretty clever guy, and it would be wrong to dismiss his comment just because one of his prior jobs was rasslin'

However I cannot agree that every person's opinion about spirituality has the same validity. Surely the Pope, Nietzsche, the Dali Lama, and any other incredibly intelligent person that has spent a great deal of their life attempting to answer the great question "Why?" will have more insight into the human spirit then the average man on the street.
 
[quote name='camoor'][quote name='Zoltek99']Personal beliefs, about God, about religion, about anything, are just that....personal...i.e. subjective. Just because an individual devotes his/her life to "studying his beliefs more deeply", that doesn't give his/her words about about spirituality any more import than the homeless man on the corner of the street or Jesse Ventura, ex-governor and ex-Navy SEAL.[/quote]

Dude, it really depends.

I may be in the minority here, but I think Jesse Ventura is actually a pretty clever guy, and it would be wrong to dismiss his comment just because one of his prior jobs was rasslin'

However I cannot agree that every person's opinion about spirituality has the same validity. Surely the Pope, Nietzsche, the Dali Lama, and any other incredibly intelligent person that has spent a great deal of their life attempting to answer the great question "Why?" will have more insight into the human spirit then the average man on the street.[/quote]

Good point. I think I'm not being clear about this, partly as a result of my not exactly being sure what I want to say....but I'll give it another go.

IMO, organized religion is a hoax and I'm not talking about that here.

Personal religion, that is, one's relationship with God (whatever form that relationship may take) is not a hoax, but it is personal, i.e. entirely subjective. People like the Pope, or the Dalai Lama, or theologicians may be more articulate about their thoughts about spirituality, but their thoughts may very well be no more valid than the thoughts of the homeless man on the corner of the street.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that nobody has been granted a divine right to prescribe to you what you think/believe/feel about your own personal relationship with God, regardless of their background and expertise. You may choose to listen to what others have to say, and that's a good thing, but if you want to listen to Jesse Ventura over the Pope, then so be it.

Hmm, I think I'm getting more off-target so I'll just leave it at that for now.
 
It is mind boggling how many religious people throughout the years have killed and murdered in the name of God. Yes, religion, what a wonderful thing!!
 
[quote name='Isles Guru']It is mind boggling how many religious people throughout the years have killed and murdered in the name of God. Yes, religion, what a wonderful thing!![/quote]

Amen :p
 
[quote name='PhrostByte'][quote name='Isles Guru']It is mind boggling how many religious people throughout the years have killed and murdered in the name of God. Yes, religion, what a wonderful thing!![/quote]

Amen :p[/quote]

There are plenty of completely secular philosophies/governements with adherents that have killed and murdered without just cause (Communism for example). I find this blanket statment about religion rather shallow.
 
[quote name='Isles Guru']It is mind boggling how many religious people throughout the years have killed and murdered in the name of God. Yes, religion, what a wonderful thing!![/quote]

What have atheist as a whole contributed to this world?

How many orphanages, charities and humanitarian organizations are run by athiest?

Do atheist feed the hungry, care for the sick and protect the weak?

What atheist nation stands as an example of greatness to mankind?

What universal theory do atheist have about the beginning of time?

What happens to atheist when they die or someone very close to them dies?
Do you just cease to exist and rot away in a grave?

The only contribution of atheist I've seen to date is their constant assault on people who believe in God.

I honestly feel sorry for atheist. You may not understand this now but -
Some day someone very close to you, or you yourself will be in an extremely difficult situation that requires a miracle.
Who do you turn to?

I have witnessed a miracle first-hand that medical science cannot explain other to say it is a miracle.
 
[quote name='Inmate #10943'][quote name='Isles Guru']It is mind boggling how many religious people throughout the years have killed and murdered in the name of God. Yes, religion, what a wonderful thing!![/quote]

What have atheist as a whole contributed to this world?

How many orphanages, charities and humanitarian organizations are run by athiest?

Do atheist feed the hungry, care for the sick and protect the weak?

What atheist nation stands as an example of greatness to mankind?

What universal theory do atheist have about the beginning of time?

What happens to atheist when they die or someone very close to them dies?
Do you just cease to exist and rot away in a grave?

The only contribution of atheist I've seen to date is their constant assault on people who believe in God.

I honestly feel sorry for atheist. You may not understand this now but -
Some day someone very close to you, or you yourself will be in an extremely difficult situation that requires a miracle.
Who do you turn to?

I have witnessed a miracle first-hand that medical science cannot explain other to say it is a miracle.[/quote]

Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?
 
[quote name='jmcc']Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?[/quote]

I don't want to bore anyone with how God and religion brought it about but-
I had cancer and coughed it out. Completely. I'm cured!
Thank God!
 
[quote name='Inmate #10943'][quote name='jmcc']Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?[/quote]

I don't want to bore anyone with how God and religion brought it about but-
I had cancer and coughed it out. Completely. I'm cured!
Thank God![/quote]

Brain cancer?
 
[quote name='"jmcc"'][quote name='"Inmate #10943"'][quote name='"jmcc"']Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?[/quote]

I don't want to bore anyone with how God and religion brought it about but-
I had cancer and coughed it out. Completely. I'm cured!
Thank God![/quote]

Brain cancer?[/quote]

A pure genius like response if I ever saw one... (assuming you are in all seriousness being sarcastic.)
 
[quote name='Inmate #10943']What have atheist as a whole contributed to this world?[/quote]

That's about as ridiculous as asking what have religious people contributed to this world. To imply that only religious people are good giving people is a bit short-sighted. Whether you believe in God or not has nothing to do with what type of person you are.

How many orphanages, charities and humanitarian organizations are run by athiest?

Again. Look above...

Do atheist feed the hungry, care for the sick and protect the weak?

Some do. Some don't. Some believers do. Some believers don't.

What atheist nation stands as an example of greatness to mankind?

The 1st world countries on this planet are civil nations, and go out of their way to attempt to separate church from state. The United States, which I'm guessing you are referring to, has this very concept in its constitution.

What universal theory do atheist have about the beginning of time?

The Big Bang.

What happens to atheist when they die or someone very close to them dies?

The heart stops beating. The neurons stop firing. Metabolism soon stops. The body begins to decay. And that's it....

The same thing happens to a believer as well.

Do you just cease to exist and rot away in a grave?

Yep. Everybody and everything does. It's the way of the universe...decay and entropy.

The only contribution of atheist I've seen to date is their constant assault on people who believe in God.

The only contribution of religious people I've seen to date is their constant molestation of little children.

I just made a pretty awful blanket statement. It's not true...but neither is saying that athiests' only contribution is to assault believers.

Nobody is assaulting believers of God. At least I'm not. I just don't see how the ideas of an afterlife and an all-powerful God have a place in the universe we live in.

I honestly feel sorry for atheist. You may not understand this now but - Some day someone very close to you, or you yourself will be in an extremely difficult situation that requires a miracle.
Who do you turn to?

I will do everything in my power to make that miracle possible, even if I have to pray.

I have witnessed a miracle first-hand that medical science cannot explain other to say it is a miracle.

That is fantastic to hear and I'm not trying to be sarcastic when I say I'm glad that you experienced such an amazing miracle.

It just still doesn't proove to me that God played a role. Humans still know very little about science and medicine and how the body works.
 
[quote name='KingNES'][quote name='jmcc'][quote name='Inmate #10943'][quote name='jmcc']Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?[/quote]

I don't want to bore anyone with how God and religion brought it about but-
I had cancer and coughed it out. Completely. I'm cured!
Thank God![/quote]

Brain cancer?[/quote]

A pure genius like response if I ever saw one... (assuming you are in all seriousness being sarcastic.)[/quote]

Well, it could explain some things, is all.
 
[quote name='Zoltek99'][quote name='Inmate #10943']What have atheist as a whole contributed to this world?[/quote]

That's about as ridiculous as asking what have religious people contributed to this world. To imply that only religious people are good giving people is a bit short-sighted. Whether you believe in God or not has nothing to do with what type of person you are.[/quote]

I'm not talking of individuals.
Again, what have atheists as a non-religion contributed to the world?

[quote name='Zoltek99'][quote name='Inmate #10943']How many orphanages, charities and humanitarian organizations are run by athiest?[/quote]

Again. Look above...[/quote]

I did! It's a simple question, just list a few of the orphanages or charities atheist have established.

[quote name='Zoltek99'][quote name='Inmate #10943']Do atheist feed the hungry, care for the sick and protect the weak?[/quote]

Some do. Some don't. Some believers do. Some believers don't. [/quote]

The "Some" doesn't compute. What programs are run by atheist to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, care for the sick and protect the weak?
I can name the religious sponsored programs can you name the atheist ones?

[quote name='Zoltek99'][quote name='Inmate #10943']What atheist nation stands as an example of greatness to mankind?[/quote]

The 1st world countries on this planet are civil nations, and go out of their way to attempt to separate church from state. The United States, which I'm guessing you are referring to, has this very concept in its constitution.[[/quote]

You're again avoiding the question. Here are some great atheist countries: U.S.S.R., China, and North Korea. Fine examples of atheist nations.

[quote name='Zoltek99'][quote name='Inmate #10943']What universal theory do atheist have about the beginning of time?[/quote]

The Big Bang.[/quote]

Did the Big Bang happen all by itself out of nothingness?

[quote name='Zoltek99'][quote name='Inmate #10943']What happens to atheist when they die or someone very close to them dies?[/quote]

The heart stops beating. The neurons stop firing. Metabolism soon stops. The body begins to decay. And that's it....

The same thing happens to a believer as well.[/quote]

Wrong! For me there's an afterlife where hopefully I can be with the people I loved here on earth.

[quote name='Zoltek99'][quote name='Inmate #10943']Do you just cease to exist and rot away in a grave?[/quote]

Yep. Everybody and everything does. It's the way of the universe...decay and entropy.[/quote]

True! Our bodies all rot away. But I believe we have a soul and an afterlife.

(skip the next two)

[quote name='Zoltek99'][quote name='Inmate #10943']I have witnessed a miracle first-hand that medical science cannot explain other to say it is a miracle.[/quote]

That is fantastic to hear and I'm not trying to be sarcastic when I say I'm glad that you experienced such an amazing miracle.

It just still doesn't proove to me that God played a role. Humans still know very little about science and medicine and how the body works.[/quote]

Well I really don't want to get into the details but God did play a role.
I saw 3 of the best medical specialist in the field and had a well-known cancer center involved and their conclusion was they had never ever heard of this and could not offer any explantion.
 
A person religion determines what they can and cannot do?

I hope to become a theoretical physicist and an eletrical engineer.
Will my status as an atheist create a glass wall that prevents me from accomplishing anything?

Will god smite me if I am about to create or discover something important?

Please tell me, because I need to know whether I should change my career path to something that god approves of for an atheist.
 
[quote name='jmcc'][quote name='KingNES'][quote name='jmcc'][quote name='Inmate #10943'][quote name='jmcc']Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?[/quote]

I don't want to bore anyone with how God and religion brought it about but-
I had cancer and coughed it out. Completely. I'm cured!
Thank God![/quote]

Brain cancer?[/quote]

A pure genius like response if I ever saw one... (assuming you are in all seriousness being sarcastic.)[/quote]

Well, it could explain some things, is all.[/quote]

I didn't even think that warranted a reply because it was so absurd.
Even if it was "brain" cancer you'd have some zippy reply.
The best way to settle this is for you to got to medical school and then do your residency in oncology.
Then I'll turn all of my medical records and findings by some reputable doctors over to you
and you can then come up with some reasonable scientific explanation. Thus disproving my God/miracle thing.
 
[quote name='Inmate #10943'][quote name='jmcc'][quote name='KingNES'][quote name='jmcc'][quote name='Inmate #10943'][quote name='jmcc']Ooh. What was this miracle you bore witness to?[/quote]

I don't want to bore anyone with how God and religion brought it about but-
I had cancer and coughed it out. Completely. I'm cured!
Thank God![/quote]

Brain cancer?[/quote]

A pure genius like response if I ever saw one... (assuming you are in all seriousness being sarcastic.)[/quote]

Well, it could explain some things, is all.[/quote]

I didn't even think that warranted a reply because it was so absurd.
Even if it was "brain" cancer you'd have some zippy reply.
The best way to settle this is for you to got to medical school and then do your residency in oncology.
Then I'll turn all of my medical records and findings by some reputable doctors over to you
and you can then come up with some reasonable scientific explanation. Thus disproving my God/miracle thing.[/quote]

THAT'S what you consider the best way to settle my request for a description of a miracle you say happened to you? I think I'll stand by my "brain cancer?" question. "I had cancer but now I don't" is pretty vague for a personal story, let alone a miracle.
 
[quote name='jmcc'][quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='jmcc'][quote name='pumbaa'][quote name='Tromack']Well, I believe that there is a god. And I believe in the teachings of the bible when looked at as a set of moral guidelines. But I don't believe in the bible as anything more than that.

Edit- I also believe in a clockmaker god. I believe that there is some supreme being that created the universe. But humans being the chosen ones I doubt. I also don't believe in an ever present god watching over us and controlling our lives in mysterious ways.

Edit 2- One must also remember most of the people on this board are mid-teenagers, and you have to remember that most teenagers think it is cool to be an atheist.[/quote]

Intresting last comment. Most of the atheist I've met have been between the ages of 16-21. Although, Atheism seems like it has a strong base in rebellion, so I guess the teenager thing makes sense.[/quote]

Yeah, atheism is sort of the teen boy's wicca..[/quote]

And religion is the weak man's crutch.

It's pretty conceited that in the expanse of the universe, god gives a crap about you. If there were a god and he created the splendorous mind of man, his heart aches from the knowledge that his creation cowers like a child afraid of his own existence, clings to a belief in the return to nothingness as ideal, and shuns his own life as unworthy, repeatedly begging for forgiveness.

It's not rebellion, it reason.[/quote]

Assuming she's still alive, your mother is wringing her hands in distress. Mission accomplished.[/quote]

Sorry, my mother is an atheist. Although she used to call me jesus christ a lot as a child. Actually I think it was "jesus fucking christ", as I remember.
 
The "Some" doesn't compute. What programs are run by atheist to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, care for the sick and protect the weak?
I can name the religious sponsored programs can you name the atheist ones?

I can name the biggest one of all:

Uncle Sam.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']
The "Some" doesn't compute. What programs are run by atheist to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, care for the sick and protect the weak?
I can name the religious sponsored programs can you name the atheist ones?

I can name the biggest one of all:

Uncle Sam.[/quote]

Sweet sassy molassy!
 
Inmate, I think you should really broaden your horizons. There are alot of people who don't believe in one "God" that do a great deal of good in the world.

I googled Athiesm and came up with this site. It gives a great explaination of the ways and reasons many Atheists contribute to charity:

"You mentioned Christians who campaign for increased foreign aid. What about atheists? Why aren't there any atheist charities or hospitals? Don't atheists object to the religious charities?"

There are many charities without religious purpose that atheists can contribute to. Some atheists contribute to religious charities as well, for the sake of the practical good they do. Some atheists even do voluntary work for charities founded on a theistic basis.

Most atheists seem to feel that atheism isn't worth shouting about in connection with charity. To them, atheism is just a simple, obvious everyday matter, and so is charity. Many feel that it's somewhat cheap, not to say self-righteous, to use simple charity as an excuse to plug a particular set of religious beliefs.

To "weak" atheists, building a hospital to say "I do not believe in God" is a rather strange idea; it's rather like holding a party to say "Today is not my birthday". Why the fuss? Atheism is rarely evangelistic.

Atheist FAQ
 
Inmate, camoor made a great point. I think you are confusing beliief in God as indicative of one's "goodness".

You say it isn't about individuals....but is is, don't you see? It's the individuals who are good or bad people, not by virtue of whether they believe if a God exists, but whether they believe in being "kind to their neighbor". By talking about groups, as a whole, all that does is stereotype and leads to untrue blanket statements.

Believe me, as an individual taking the stance you are, you do not want to be judging believers or athiests as groups. Athiests, as a non-religion, did not start the Crusades. Athiests, as a non-religion, did not start the strife rampant throughout the Middle East. Athiests, as a non-religion, are not responsible for the brutality involved with the fight for Israel.

The Red Cross. The Salvation Army. Goodwill. Make a Wish Foundation. The U.S government with welfare, and social security, and food stamps. The thousands upon thousands of research centers devoted to curing Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's, or AIDS, or cancer. The thousands upon thousands of local food shelters (dozens of which in my hometown of San Francisco have nothing to do with the church). Believers and athiests alike contribute to and fund these operations.

The U.S.S.R, in practice, was actually not an athiest nation, neither was China. It was the communist platform to remove any official tokens of religion, but the people, especially in Russia were devoutly religious. Speaking of which, the US is an athiest nation. Are they not the paradigm for a great nation, a world leader?

If I knew how the Big Bang arose, I would be in Stockholm accepting my Nobel Prize. Suffice it to say, one of the popular theories floating around is that our universe, our Big Bang, simply arose from another universe. Still a much better proposition than an imaginary friend creating it.

Last thing...again...we don't know much more than we know about how the human body works. Your recovery from cancer was miraculous, but possibly entirely explainable by scientific processes.
 
Just a quick question. Do any of you who do not believe in God believe in any of the following? UFO's, ETs, Nessy,Big Foot,Demons,Ghosts,Spirits (etc, U get my drift.) I am just curious is all. Thanx in Advance.
 
Atheists:

Why are you an atheist? I'm just very curious. I definitely flirted with atheism, and I would count it amoung the worst times of my life. I'm not saying anything about the lifestyle, but whenI was struggling with whether or not their was a God... I felt sick to my stomach everyday... just because the gravity of the deiscion was pounding on me like a hammer. Have you have a similar experience with atheism? Have you tried to grasp a religions reasonings? I would consider myself a very logical and reasonable person. I'm definitely not a mindless drone following "big brother" Jesus. I've put some serious thought and logic into my religions deiscions, and continue to grow as a spritual person (and I've never even molested a child!). But from your statements, I don't see much logic beyond "Its obviously the logical thing, and religion and the bible is bullshit".Please don't just reason with "reason and logic" BS. Give me something specific. I'm not challenging you, I am truly just trying to understand another man's reasoning and thought processes, perhaps expanding mine.

BTW: America is by no means an atheist nation. It's tradition is obviously deeply rooted in White Protestantism. While Church and State are seperate, the morals and "values" that our most basic laws were built on were made in a Christian environment. I'm not saying this is good or bad... I'm just making the point that if your looking for a country based in secularism... America isn't it.
 
I cannot speak for others, but I'll do my best at getting my thoughts across.

Scientific discovery after scientific discovery has shown that the universe is, by nature, an objective construct. It's governed by logical rules through and through. Everything that happens, microscopically or macroscopically, happens because the rules of biology, physics, and chemistry prescribe that they happen. Even the idea of consciousness, and even free will, are beginning to be revealed as governed by objective rules.

In this massive conglomeration of objectivity, I see no place for the existence of an all-powerful being that watches over us, cares for us, lends us passage to the afterlife, etc...

I just feel the concept of God is nothing more than an archaic remnant of early civilization's attempts to explain the unknown. For whatever reason, perhaps because it provides a sense of solace for people encountering hard times, God has lived through the ages.

Civilization created God, not the other way around.

As we learn more and more about the Big Bang and the existence of possible multi-verses, the likelihood that some sentient being created our universe seems ever less likely.

I guess the difference between me and a believer is faith, faith that despite no supporting evidence, God does, in fact, exist and watches over us all. You know what? Maybe the believers are right. I think they are naive but maybe they're right. I'm just not the type of person to allow my faith, or lack thereof, to shape my view on life, existence, the universe, etc...

People say you need faith. You just have to believe he's there. You can't proove he doesn't exist so if you believe, you might be right. The problem I have with that is that you can say that about just about anything that doesn't exist. For example, let's say I believe there is an eight-legged monkey that lives in the Congo. Even if it doesn't exist, I can still maintain that I've seen no evidence contrary so it must exist.

I'm a man who deals in numbers, in formulas, in facts....in objective truths which I can perceive and understand. There is no place for a sentient creator of the universe in my world of objectivity.

With that said, I don't think religion is wrong. I think organized religion is wrong. It only purports the idea that there is one way to "enlightenment" as opposed to the "wrong" way offerred by other religions. Still, the teachings of the major religions of the world all have fantastic messages...and it just so happens those messages all boil down to one concept...Love. That is as marvelous as message as any and I am all for the religious teachings (be it from the Bible, or the Koran, or the Talmud) that try and spread the message.

It's just when that when the message becomes entangled with "devotion to Jesus" or "devotion to Mohammed" or "the TRUE path to salvation", then I take offense.

Quick note: America may have been founded in a Protestant environment, but the morals and values taught by Protestantism were around much earlier than Protestantism, itself. The morals and values themselves are very secular, despite the religious upbringings of the Founders. The fact that churches, synagogues, mosques, and other places of worship flourish side by side in America provides pretty good evidence for the success of separation of church and state. I guess that doesn't make America an atheist nation, per say, but it does make it secular, in that rather than affiliate itself with one religion, it affiliates itself with no religion and, in turn, becomes a civil nation.
 
Thank you Zoltek, you boiled it down to exactly what it is. Faith. I respect your opinion, and I respect your arguement. I wish more atheists were like you. And although I obviously disagree with you about God... your views on love are spot on, thats what its all about... (IMHO) As long as the person on the other line is governed by this single idea... I can see no wrong. Awesome.
 
[quote name='KingNES']Just a quick question. Do any of you who do not believe in God believe in any of the following? UFO's, ETs, Nessy,Big Foot,Demons,Ghosts,Spirits (etc, U get my drift.) I am just curious is all. Thanx in Advance.[/quote]

With the infinite universe it is theoretically impossible for the not to be an infinite number of intelligent species.

It is logical to assume that the universe is innfinite because those would be some huge ass walls.
 
[quote name='pumbaa']Atheists:

Why are you an atheist? I'm just very curious. ...I felt sick to my stomach everyday... just because the gravity of the deiscion was pounding on me like a hammer. Have you have a similar experience with atheism? [/quote]

No, I have never had a bad experience because of my lack of faith in god

Have you tried to grasp a religions reasonings?

yes, I've tried, but the logic always seems to end on a particular faith, which I do not share. More accurately, that 'faith' is usually in a book written by men who have no greater claim to speak with an almighty than I. Who can argue with a person who believes in a word simply because it was written down buy someone who claims to know god ?

I would consider myself a very logical and reasonable person. I'm definitely not a mindless drone following "big brother" Jesus.
Except that logic is usually thrown out the window when dealing with concepts such as Jesus, god, and THE word.

But from your statements, I don't see much logic beyond "Its obviously the logical thing, and religion and the bible is bullshit".

Unfortunately, the lines between religion, it's dogma and practice, and god are too blurry for me to answer this. The Christian belief that god is merciful, benevolent, and personally interceeds in a christian's everyday life is illogical to me. The problem of evil sealed the deal. Bad things happening to good people, to me, cannot be brushed aside as "god's master plan". Every time some innocent dies in a car accident the quote in the paper is that "it was god's plan". The minister at the funeral always says "she's in a better place, now". No she's not, she's dead. God is is a serious whack job if his master plan is to fuck with every living thing he created, to test them and their faith on a daily basis instead of letting them enjoy their gift of life as their own. That god is a spoiled child who demands obedience, distributes mercy (unearned forgiveness), and desires to be worshipped by his creations as their primary purpose for existing. This cannot be the true creator of the universe. It's too shallow and narcissitic.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Unfortunately, the lines between religion, it's dogma and practice, and god are too blurry for me to answer this. The Christian belief that god is merciful, benevolent, and personally interceeds in a christian's everyday life is illogical to me. The problem of evil sealed the deal. Bad things happening to good people, to me, cannot be brushed aside as "god's master plan". Every time some innocent dies in a car accident the quote in the paper is that "it was god's plan". The minister at the funeral always says "she's in a better place, now". No she's not, she's dead. God is is a serious whack job if his master plan is to shaq-fu with every living thing he created, to test them and their faith on a daily basis instead of letting them enjoy their gift of life as their own. That god is a spoiled child who demands obedience, distributes mercy (unearned forgiveness), and desires to be worshipped by his creations as their primary purpose for existing. This cannot be the true creator of the universe. It's too shallow and narcissitic.[/quote]

Stan : "Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my friend. Why can't God take someone else's friend?"
Chef : "Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God, Stan. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand?"
Stan : "But then, why does God give us anything to start with?"
Chef : "Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, then you would have nothin' to cry about. That's like God, who gives us life and love and help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power."
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Will my status as an atheist create a glass wall that prevents me from accomplishing anything? [/quote]

No even atheist can be all they want to be.

When you go for a job interview here are some helpful tips:
- have good manners
- avoid the "I'm smarter than anybody else" attitude
- don't be rude and attain some humility
- do not use offensive language

Now practice practice practice.
Who knows someday you may win the Nobel Peace Prize.

Good Luck!
 
Atheist are so typical you can predict what they're going to say.

[quote name='jmcc']THAT'S what you consider the best way to settle my request for a description of a miracle you say happened to you? I think I'll stand by my "brain cancer?" question. "I had cancer but now I don't" is pretty vague for a personal story, let alone a miracle.[/quote]

Yes your exalted majesty, I will immediately submit to all Godless people proof of a miracle. Who cares what you believe!
 
[quote name='Inmate #10943']Atheist are so typical you can predict what they're going to say.

[quote name='jmcc']THAT'S what you consider the best way to settle my request for a description of a miracle you say happened to you? I think I'll stand by my "brain cancer?" question. "I had cancer but now I don't" is pretty vague for a personal story, let alone a miracle.[/quote]

Yes your exalted majesty, I will immediately submit to all Godless people proof of a miracle. Who cares what you believe![/quote]

So you got nothing, huh? I guess I'm not surprised, really.
 
[quote name='jmcc'][quote name='bmulligan']Unfortunately, the lines between religion, it's dogma and practice, and god are too blurry for me to answer this. The Christian belief that god is merciful, benevolent, and personally interceeds in a christian's everyday life is illogical to me. The problem of evil sealed the deal. Bad things happening to good people, to me, cannot be brushed aside as "god's master plan". Every time some innocent dies in a car accident the quote in the paper is that "it was god's plan". The minister at the funeral always says "she's in a better place, now". No she's not, she's dead. God is is a serious whack job if his master plan is to shaq-fu with every living thing he created, to test them and their faith on a daily basis instead of letting them enjoy their gift of life as their own. That god is a spoiled child who demands obedience, distributes mercy (unearned forgiveness), and desires to be worshipped by his creations as their primary purpose for existing. This cannot be the true creator of the universe. It's too shallow and narcissitic.[/quote]

Stan : "Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my friend. Why can't God take someone else's friend?"
Chef : "Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God, Stan. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand?"
Stan : "But then, why does God give us anything to start with?"
Chef : "Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, then you would have nothin' to cry about. That's like God, who gives us life and love and help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power."[/quote]

That my friend. Is hilarious.

bmulligan: Obviously to you... someone who doesn't know me, logic is "thrown out the window" when it comes to religion. I just don't see it that way. There's some very logical arguements FOR a God. Someone once said that religion was just started by early people because they didn't understand what was going on with the world, and its survived for some stupid reason. This is one of my logical reasons for BELIEVEING in a God. I mean shit, this stuff has survived through years and years, in various iternerations. The whole of humanity has always believed in something larger than itself. So many people have believed it in one form or another. It's lasted so long... Name one other belief that humans have had throughout history. You look up into the night sky, and see beautiful randomness. I look up into the night sky and see the same, but know that there is a rhyme reason for this randomness.
 
[quote name='jmcc']So you got nothing, huh? I guess I'm not surprised, really.[/quote]

Another brilliant, well-conceived, witty, highly-intelligent, thought-provoking post
from the author who gave us "Brain Cancer". It's always a pleasure reading posts from
the Grand Spam Master as he inches closer to that coveted "2600 Post" landmark with
his meaningful and enlightening posts.
 
So how many people on this site believe that if you don't believe in Jesus Christ as the Lord and Savior before you die yada yada you will spend an eternity in hell REGARDLESS of how good a person you may be.
 
Which atheist:
started the Crusades?
ran the Inquisition?
burned witches at the stake?
are warring in the Middle East?
covered up child molestation by Priests?
promoted slavery?
 
[quote name='Zoltek99']You say it isn't about individuals....but is is, don't you see? It's the individuals who are good or bad people, not by virtue of whether they believe if a God exists, but whether they believe in being "kind to their neighbor". By talking about groups, as a whole, all that does is stereotype and leads to untrue blanket statements.[/quote]

It's not about individuals, it's about mankind.
You atheists love to talk about individualism when it applies to you but when it involes Christians it's a different story.
When a few bad Christians do something wrong you don't attack the individual you attack the religion.

[quote name='Zoltek99']Believe me, as an individual taking the stance you are, you do not want to be judging believers or athiests as groups. Athiests, as a non-religion, did not start the Crusades. Athiests, as a non-religion, did not start the strife rampant throughout the Middle East. Athiests, as a non-religion, are not responsible for the brutality involved with the fight for Israel.[/quote]

No but you fail to mention atheist governments like the Soviet Union that murdered over 18 million of its citizens.
When it comes to abusing people and taking away freedoms nobody can match the atheists.

[quote name='Zoltek99']The U.S.S.R, in practice, was actually not an athiest nation, neither was China. It was the communist platform to remove any official tokens of religion, but the people, especially in Russia were devoutly religious.[/quote]

"not an atheist nation" - How about an atheist dictatorship that slaughtered its own people and tried to destroy organized religion.
I'm Eastern (Russian) Orthodox and the atheist Soviet government did everything it could to destroy the church.

[quote name='Zoltek99']If I knew how the Big Bang arose, I would be in Stockholm accepting my Nobel Prize. Suffice it to say, one of the popular theories floating around is that our universe, our Big Bang, simply arose from another universe. Still a much better proposition than an imaginary friend creating it.[/quote]

Well it's "entirely explainable by scientific processes". Stephen Hawkings a renowned scientist who knows more about the universe than anyone here, believes in God from his observations of the universe.

[quote name='Zoltek99']As we learn more and more about the Big Bang and the existence of possible multi-verses, the likelihood that some sentient being created our universe seems ever less likely.[/quote]

You should debate this with Stephen Hawking.

You atheists are really incredible. You look for any excuse to knock Christians or anyone who believes in God.
When scientists say God exists well then it's faulty science.

I've been wondering why atheists have avoided answering my questions about charities or good they have provided for mankind.
But it's dawned on me that atheists aren't avoiding the question, it's simply they have no answer.
Because there is not one single charity or humanitarian act that has ever been sponsored and supported by atheists.
They can't name one single thing atheists have ever done throughout history to benefit mankind.
There has never been an atheist government that has ever succeeded.
And a majority of atheists won't come out and admit it but they're anti-Christian bigots.

[quote name='pumbaa']The whole of humanity has always believed in something larger than itself.[/quote]

WOW! Did you stumble upon the core beliefs of atheists or what!
Atheists believe there is nothing larger than themselves.
It's all about them. A God cannot exist because they are Gods.
 
bread's done
Back
Top