I mock the EU's piece of crap constitution

CTLesq

CAGiversary!
Hey Chirac - go fuck yourself and your shitty constitution.


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050530/

ap_on_re_eu/france_eu_referendum


French Voters Reject First EU Charter

By JOHN LEICESTER, Associated Press Writer 16 minutes ago


PARIS - French voters soundly rejected the European Union's first constitution Sunday, a stinging repudiation of President Jacques Chirac's leadership and the ambitious, decades-long effort to further unite the continent.

[size=-2][/size]

Chirac, who had urged voters to approve the charter in the bitterly contested referendum, announced the result in a brief, televised address. He said the process of ratifying the treaty would continue in other EU countries.

"It is your sovereign decision, and I take note," Chirac said. "Make no mistake, France's decision inevitably creates a difficult context for the defense of our interests in Europe."

With votes counted in all of France and its overseas territories, the "no" camp had 54.87 percent, with only 45.13 percent voting "yes," the Interior Ministry said. Turnout was close to 70 percent — testifying to the passions that the treaty and the debate surrounding it aroused.

The treaty's rejection in France — the architect of the European project — could set the continent's plans back by years and amounts to a personal humiliation for the veteran French leader.

Although Chirac argued that the constitution would streamline EU decision-making and make the bloc more accessible to its 450 million citizens, opponents feared it would strip France of its sovereignty and generous social system and trigger an influx of cheap labor.

"I think that the constitution will destroy our political structure. It's just about economic interests," said Anne Le Moel, a "no" voter and 42-year-old professor of philosophy, repeating what had become a battle cry among the charter's opponents.

All 25 EU members must ratify the text for it to take effect as planned by Nov. 1, 2006. Nine already have done so: Austria, Hungary, Italy, Germany, Greece, Lithuania, Slovakia, Slovenia and Spain.

Treaty opponents chanting "We won!" gathered at Paris' Place de la Bastille, a symbol of rebellion where angry crowds in 1789 stormed the prison and sparked the French Revolution. Cars blared their horns and "no" campaigners thrust their arms into the air.

"This is a great victory," said Fabrice Savel, 38, from the working-class suburb of Aubervilliers. He was distributing posters that read: "No to a free-market Europe."

EU leaders in Brussels, Belgium, vowed to continue their effort to have the constitution approved.

"I am not a doctor, but the treaty is not dead," said Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker, whose country holds the rotating EU presidency. "This ratification process will continue."

The Dutch vote Wednesday, with polls showing opposition to the constitution there running at about 60 percent. On Friday, the constitution's main architect, former French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing, said countries that reject the treaty will be asked to vote again.

France was the first "no" — even though it was a founder member of what over 50 years has grown into the EU.

"There is no more constitution," said Philippe de Villiers, a leading opponent. "It is necessary to reconstruct Europe on other foundations that don't currently exist."

De Villiers called on Chirac to resign — something the French leader had said he would not do — and called for parliament to be dissolved.

Jean-Marie Le Pen, the extreme-right leader who campaigned vigorously for the constitution's defeat, also called for Chirac's resignation.

Chirac "wanted to gamble ... and he has lost," Le Pen said.

Chirac and European leaders have said there was no fallback plan in the event of a French rejection. But many French voters did not believe that. Many, especially on the left, hoped their "no" vote would force the EU back to the drawing board and improve the 448-clause document. In the meantime, "no" voters expected the EU to continue functioning under existing treaties.

"I voted 'no' because the text is very difficult to understand. Also, I'm afraid for democracy. The way the EU functions is very opaque. Many people there are not directly elected," said Emmanuel Zelez, 32, a film editor.

The outcome caused immediate disarray, with political leaders outside France divided on the significance of the French vote.

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said "the result raises profound questions for all of us about the future direction of Europe."

But the European Union's industry commissioner, Guenther Verheugen, said the vote was not a catastrophe and that the situation should not be over dramatized, but he acknowledged that things did not look good for the Dutch vote.

"It would be a very bitter experience if two founding members of the union, who had always pushed for it, were to vote 'no,'" he said.

Chirac had waged an all-out campaign to persuade nearly 42 million sharply divided voters to approve the charter. But the electorate was in rebellious mood, with unemployment running at 10 percent and wide unease about immigration, Eurocrats and free-market capitalism.

Nicolas Sarkozy, the head of Chirac's ruling Union for a Popular Movement and a leading campaigner for the "yes" camp, called Sunday's defeat "a major political event."

Looking ahead to France's next general elections in 2007, Sarkozy said: "We must decide on an innovative, courageous and ambitious plan of action."

Chirac's popularity ratings have plummeted in recent weeks, and in his television address, the president said he would announce "my decisions concerning the government and its priorities" in coming days.

Noel Clay, a spokesman for the State Department, declined comment Sunday, saying: "When it's official, we'll comment."

A "yes," coupled with another by the Dutch, could have given the constitution potentially unstoppable momentum.

In the end, though, the French — torn between wanting to remain one of the engines of an increasingly competitive Europe yet fiercely protective of the generous social welfare benefits they enjoy — stuck with their perceptions that the charter posed another threat to their cherished way of life.

"If you look at every sentence, every turn of phrase, practically every article has a mention of (financial) markets," Anne-Marie Latremoliere, a 57-year-old graphic designer, said after casting a "no" ballot at a polling station near the Bastille.

"We want Europe to be a beautiful place," she said, "and this is certainly not it."
 
HAHAHA Maybe France is starting to get some common sense. They make this shit up and were part of the first 6, now there are 25 countries and France wants out. Love it.
 
The whole EU thing always seems like a bad idea from the very begining. Well not so much purely "bad" but just "that's never going to work".
 
Very bad move by France and her people. France is already pretty much hated in Europe and now they're just piling on the hate.

"Oh we have such uncertainty about the constitution so we'll vote 'non' to add more uncertainty."

And I absolutely love how a lot of the French are comparing voting no to the French revolution... so pathetic.
 
[quote name='dmpolska']Very bad move by France and her people. France is already pretty much hated in Europe and now they're just piling on the hate.

"Oh we have such uncertainty about the constitution so we'll vote 'non' to add more uncertainty."

And I absolutely love how a lot of the French are comparing voting no to the French revolution... so pathetic.[/QUOTE]

A lot of the "no" votes weren't so much against the consitution, but protests for various other grievences.
 
[quote name='dmpolska']Therefor it's another reason to hate France.[/QUOTE]

your hate is misplaced. You should be praising the French people. If this had passed in England and France, they would have set Europe to become the dominant power in the world again. With them staying fragmented, a concentration of European power is going to be set back for many years to come
 
[quote name='dmpolska']Very bad move by France and her people. France is already pretty much hated in Europe and now they're just piling on the hate.

"Oh we have such uncertainty about the constitution so we'll vote 'non' to add more uncertainty."

And I absolutely love how a lot of the French are comparing voting no to the French revolution... so pathetic.[/QUOTE]

Well, they'll never be able to match the hatred for America felt round the world. Bush is committed to putting the US back at #1. #1 most hated nation.
 
[quote name='dmpolska']Therefor it's another reason to hate France.[/QUOTE]

lol

people don't know whether this is good or bad but it is another reason to bash France.

you probably would've posted the same thing if the measure had passed. I am sure even the OP is confused.
 
you know what's awesome?

the ignore function!

"dudes, france suxorz, dey iz deh stupidz, omg god bless 'merica"

CTLesq, i can't see what you're saying, but i think it's funny that you're mocking france on a videogames forum, where no french people are or care what you say.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']A lot of the "no" votes weren't so much against the consitution, but protests for various other grievences.[/QUOTE]

Yes, many of Chirac's policies have been disasterous for France.

Including his pathetic attempt to stop the US led coalition from invading Iraq - like that was all about principle.
 
[quote name='Sleepkyng']you know what's awesome?

the ignore function!

"dudes, france suxorz, dey iz deh stupidz, omg god bless 'merica"

CTLesq, i can't see what you're saying, but i think it's funny that you're mocking france on a videogames forum, where no french people are or care what you say.[/QUOTE]

Actually this is a politics forum. The videogames forum is up top.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']your hate is misplaced. You should be praising the French people. If this had passed in England and France, they would have set Europe to become the dominant power in the world again. With them staying fragmented, a concentration of European power is going to be set back for many years to come[/QUOTE]



Yes, exactly. I'm from Europe... so that's why I don't like the French. But If I was from one of the countries who's not in the EU or if I was Russian, I would be happy about this.
 
[quote name='CTLesq']Yes, many of Chirac's policies have been disasterous for France.

Including his pathetic attempt to stop the US led coalition from invading Iraq - like that was all about principle.[/QUOTE]

not to mention he is a corrupt son of a bitch who hides behind presidential immunity and will not stop running for the office until he kicks the bucket (its not like he will ever lose either, I mean like an extreme right wing racist candiate is going to beat a moderate in a place as liberal as France)

hopefully this rejection by the people shames him much like DeGaulle's last referendum and he resigns
 
I agree with you people about Chirac. Chirac is a stupid greedy SOB, but at least he was smart enough to try to get the Frenchies to vote yes. But France with their "nostalgia" feelings and thoughts about their revolution long ago are trying to have another revolution. "Oh, this is just like the revolution, we French people are smart, witty, and we accept change, vivre la francias!!!"

All I want to do is tell them, "STFU you f'n morons, you just killed Europe and put it in dismal uncertainty. Good job, you lose."
 
[quote name='CTLesq']Yes, many of Chirac's policies have been disasterous for France.

Including his pathetic attempt to stop the US led coalition from invading Iraq - like that was all about principle.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, why do people like you assume the only reason france's government wouldn't support us is because of money? The overwhelming majority of their population was strongly against the war, that's more than enough reason right there. The people who should be attacked are the ones such as spain, where the government ignored 90%+ of the population to support the war.

Remember, the u.s. loves democracy as long as they vote for us.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']The overwhelming majority of their population was strongly against the war, that's more than enough reason right there.[/QUOTE]

...

Thanks.
 
[quote name='Rich']I'm honestly surprised anyone is amazed that I don't like homeless people. I don't like Mexicans, I don't like Canadians, I definitely don't like US citizens. I made fun of 9/11, and I made fun of the SE Asian Tsunami. I made fun of the Spanish after the train bombings, and I routinely make Hitler and French jokes. I've seen most of the beheading videos, and I find many of the Iraqi dead pictures amusing. I haven't tried to cover this up that much.

I enjoy watching people bitch and moan. Honestly, I'm amazed I went this long on this forum without letting this get out. I don't give a shit about anyone but myself. I'm entirely selfish, and I admit this openly.

If it came down to it, I could find proof to back up my beliefs when possible, but I just don't care. No proof leads to funnier responses, and, well, what a better way to leave the politics forum. I was getting tired of having to find proof of everything anyway, when it only lead to back and forth bickering. I'm totally amused by the turn of events in this thread, and it was a fine way to say good bye.

Think of me as you wish, but when it comes down to it, you don't know me, I don't know you. And, quite frankly, I don't give a shit.[/QUOTE]


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
[quote name='Sleepkyng']:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:[/QUOTE]

Yes. Congrats, you can copy/paste.
 
[quote name='Sleepkyng']hey at least i don't hate everyone[/QUOTE]

To be fair....I like my friends and family. Oh, and that chick that works across the street from my store at Louie G's.

And I can't say I "hate" everyone as much as I don't care about anyone. If half the world were wiped out tomorrow, I probably wouldn't care but at the same time, I would never wish it on them.

Unless it were aliens. Then we'd have to go to war. And I wanna fly a kickass spaceship.
 
[quote name='dmpolska']Please don't bring your argument into this France bashing thread. Thanks ;)[/QUOTE]

:lol::lol:
:applause:

+1 for dmpolska

Oh yeah, France sucks.

HitlerParisSmall.gif


:D
 
[quote name='Rich']To be fair....I like my friends and family. Oh, and that chick that works across the street from my store at Louie G's.[/QUOTE]

Can somebody warn the chick at Louie G's
 
[quote name='camoor']Can somebody warn the chick at Louie G's[/QUOTE]

If you ever met me in real life, you would probably never know how little I cared. I try and not let it interfere...I consider myself pretty socialable and friendly, as hard as it may be to believe.
 
[quote name='Rich']If you ever met me in real life, you would probably never know how little I cared. I try and not let it interfere...I consider myself pretty socialable and friendly, as hard as it may be to believe.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, I know that underneath you are a callous individual who frequently lies and doesn't care about anybody but yourself, so I wanted someone to warn her in case you are such an adept sociopath that you can pass yourself off as a responsible member of society.
 
The EU Constitution will be officially buried Wednesday when the Dutch vote against it. The irony is the most liberal country in Europe has to be conservative to preserve its liberalism. The Dutch are worried about their drug legalization, end of life decisions and prostitution laws under the new EU constitution. Amazing how this turnabout is working.
 
'Europe' Revisited
The French vote down the EU constitution.

Tuesday, May 31, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

The European Union's constitutional treaty began life three-and-a-half years ago as an attempt to bring the EU "closer to its citizens." After Sunday's resounding defeat in France, of all places, the treaty may be said to have achieved a kind of ironic vindication.

The French vote is a victory of democracy against an opaque and elite process that few people really understood. It is also a defeat for those leaders, notably French President Jacques Chirac, who have been unable to deliver on what they promised from a united Europe. The defeat shouldn't be seen as a renunciation of "Europe" writ large, so much as for a particular narrow vision of the Continent.

The document itself is a monstrosity running to 485 pages. As a flavor of its character, consider that one of the treaty's "annexes and protocols" concerns the right of the Sami people to husband reindeer. The treaty was drafted by a convention called into existence in December 2001 and chaired by former French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing. The convention process was supposed to involve Europe's citizenry in its drafting, but in reality it droned on for two years in nigh-perfect anonymity.

The prevailing view among European elites was summed up by a senior EU bureaucrat we spoke to last month who said about the French and the constitution: "They haven't read it. If they had read it, they wouldn't understand it. If they understood it, they wouldn't like it." Nonetheless, he thought that the French should vote yes anyway.

Then, about six weeks ago, something unusual happened: Opinion polls suggested for the first time that the French referendum on ratification might fail. And even more remarkable, a debate erupted. It was messy and often uninformed, but at bottom people had started to ask themselves, what should the EU be?

In answering that question, the French may well have done the right thing for the wrong reason. The opposition included much of the political left, which derided the constitution as an ultra-liberal (in the classical sense of liberal), Anglo-Saxon thing, destined to strip Europe of its social-welfare model. At the same time, Mr. Chirac asserted that the constitution was France's only bulwark against the encroachment of Anglo-Saxon-style capitalism.

Meanwhile, Mr. Chirac's main political opponent in his own ruling party, Nicolas Sarkozy, argued for the constitution on the same grounds that the no camp argued against it--that it would help France by forcing it to reform its bloated welfare state, create more jobs and increase economic growth. We think Mr. Chirac's view of the actual document is the closest to the truth--that it would have enhanced the leverage of French socialism on the Continent--which is why it's just as well that it was defeated.

Probably the underlying sentiment among "no" voters was their rejection of the paternalism with which this constitution, along with so many other EU initiatives, was sold to the public. Europeans are increasingly tired of being told to take their medicine and not ask too many questions. An AP story got to the heart of the matter in quoting one Emmanuel Zelez, a film editor, who said, "I voted 'no' because the text is very difficult to understand. Also, I'm afraid for democracy. The way the EU functions is very opaque. Many people there are not directly elected."

The French vote is also broadly helpful to American interests in Europe. At the margin the treaty would have made it easier to promote a common European foreign policy, and that would have meant the French and German view of Europe as a counterweight to American power. The constitution's failure will make it easier for the U.S. to fashion future coalitions of the willing.

One lesson Americans shouldn't draw, however, is that this is somehow a defeat for the common European currency, despite its 1% speculative fall against the dollar yesterday. The euro's impact may well have contributed to the French defeat by exposing the failure of socialist economic policies. The repudiation earlier this month of Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's Social Democrats in their heartland of North Rhine-Westphalia had similar economic causes. The low-tax challenge from other European nations is precisely what many supporters of the euro, including us, had hoped for. The euro has been a liberalizing force in Europe, while the constitution was designed to be centralizing force.

Now that a genuine debate over the shape of the EU has begun in Europe, we hope it continues. The Dutch hold their referendum on the constitution tomorrow, and another rejection is expected. Once this document dies the death it deserves, the europhiles may conclude that the next time they draft a constitution they'll have to listen more closely to the people it purports to represent.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']The EU Constitution will be officially buried Wednesday when the Dutch vote against it. The irony is the most liberal country in Europe has to be conservative to preserve its liberalism. The Dutch are worried about their drug legalization, end of life decisions and prostitution laws under the new EU constitution. Amazing how this turnabout is working.[/QUOTE]

It has support among the more moderate people, the real conservatives and the real liberals are often against it as it runs counter to their beliefs (it is both a liberal and conservative view)
 
The EU Constitution is a monstorsity. How can a "basic framework" which is all a Constitution is supposed to be run 485 pages?

I think the U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights and Ammendments from 200+ years will still fit on 2 double spaced pages.

Goes to show you you cannot replicate what our founding fathers did and found a new nation of any quality with lawyers involved, which the EU had in spades.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']It has support among the more moderate people, the real conservatives and the real liberals are often against it as it runs counter to their beliefs (it is both a liberal and conservative view)[/QUOTE]

No one has read it. No one understands it. It has been hoisted upon people without their consent or input. To suggest that only the extreme opposite ends of the political spectrum oppose it is without factual support.
 
[quote name='CTLesq']No one has read it. No one understands it. It has been hoisted upon people without their consent or input. To suggest that only the extreme opposite ends of the political spectrum oppose it is without factual support.[/QUOTE]

I did no such thing.

Though how the hell you could say a vote is without peoples consent is beyond me.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']I did no such thing.

Though how the hell you could say a vote is without peoples consent is beyond me.[/QUOTE]

Yet again showing how little the other side understands the issues of the EU constitutional process, yet because I post something negative about something you and your cabal of left wingers on this site rise up to confront me.

1. I didn't day the vote was without the people's consent. I said the constitution was.

2. As for the vote itself, Chirac didn't have to have a referendum, he did it out of hubris and lost.

CTL

I am not asking to be insulting but precisely what is your level of education/profession?

It would assist me in responding to you.

And don't feel bad I would like to know that about many people on this forum.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']PAD, once again it escapes you, just because it says "constitution" does not mean they are trying to europeanize ours.[/QUOTE]

Do you even know what the EU dream is? To rival us on the world stage militarily, politically and from a trade standpoint. I'm not saying their constitution is trying to mirror ours but the purpose of the EU is to contest us.

However their constitution was written by lawyers and diplomats, it is not a core set of values and beliefs like ours is. Furthermore once anyone with a grasp of knowledge about the document will shred it at the polls. The countries that approved it more or less did so because they like the idea of a unified Europe on the world stage, not because they actually know what they voted for.

When the Dutch burn this tomorrow it will be dead for more than a decade.
 
Because as we all know the perfect US constitution and all of the state constitutions were all short, simple, and ratified immediately without need for rewrites or revisions.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Because as we all know the perfect US constitution and all of the state constitutions were all short, simple, and ratified immediately without need for rewrites or revisions.[/QUOTE]

That you would make that comparison [a 485 page monstrosity] to the US Constitution and yet decry Iraq a failure shows just how partisan and desirous you are to jump up and down and say no to anything that is posted which doesn't support your twisted world view.

Chirac failed. Get over it.

You should be used to losing elections by now. Or alternatively disappointed when millions of people show up and it doesn't turn into a blood bath.

CTL
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']

However their constitution was written by lawyers and diplomats, it is not a core set of values and beliefs like ours is.

You just explained my point.

Yet again showing how little the other side understands the issues of the EU constitutional process, yet because I post something negative about something you and your cabal of left wingers on this site rise up to confront me.

1. I didn't day the vote was without the people's consent. I said the constitution was.

2. As for the vote itself, Chirac didn't have to have a referendum, he did it out of hubris and lost.

CTL

I am not asking to be insulting but precisely what is your level of education/profession?

It would assist me in responding to you.

And don't feel bad I would like to know that about many people on this forum.

Wait, so you complain about them not consenting, then complain when they voted on it? Without the peoples consent, this whole process will be derailed.

Though, as for education, when I'm dealing with a guy whose main way of arguing amounts to nothing than sophomoric chest thumping, I don't see how that matters.

I have also mentioned almost nothing in reference to the eu constitution process, and little of what the constitution contains, anywhere on this board.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']
Wait, so you complain about them not consenting, then complain when they voted on it? Without the peoples consent, this whole process will be derailed.[/quote]

No you misunderstood. I mock the EU's constitution because it was a piece of crap. Now that one nation has rejected it, it must be withdrawn. I never mocked the French people for voting against it. I mock Chirac for being such a dumb ass. This debacle, ie vote, was HIS making. It was as much a referendum on his "stewardship" of France as it was about the EU. Ironic as well that it would appear Gerhard Schrodder is also going to lose the next general election in Germany. It wasn't so long ago that the Economist ran a headline with Bush, Blair and Howard on the cover suggesting they were all going to lose. All three were re-elected. Apparently the Axis of Weasels isn't doing so well.

[quote name='alonzomourning23']Though, as for education, when I'm dealing with a guy whose main way of arguing amounts to nothing than sophomoric chest thumping, I don't see how that matters.[/quote]

Weak.

[quote name='alonzomourning23']I have also mentioned almost nothing in reference to the eu constitution process, and little of what the constitution contains, anywhere on this board.[/QUOTE]

And?

CTL
 
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