I need a CHEAP new car for commuting only [Smart Car?]

[quote name='Dead of Knight']There's a smart car/BMW dealership down the road from me. They're so cute.[/QUOTE]

I love these kind of quotes from you DoK, especially when you drive V8 powered Charger. ;)

[quote name='javeryh']OK, I'm definitely buying an new car this weekend and I have to start looking... Here's my list:

- Nissan Versa
- Honda Fit
- Honda Civic
- Chevy Cobalt
- Ford Fusion
- Ford Focus
- Toyota Corolla
- Toyota Prius

Anything else I should be looking at? My wife has been indicating that she wants to get something along the lines of an Accord or Camry but that's about a $10,000 jump in what I want to spend.[/QUOTE]

I'll give high praise to the Versa and the Fusion. An employer of mine leases a Versa 5 door hatch and every time I've driven it, I've been impressed with it's responsiveness and quality.

The Focus is another nifty Ford. It has more soul than the state-side Focus ever will have, yet it's not as boring as the Taurus (at least until the upcoming redesign).

I'll also add that the Mazda3 5 door hatch is another amazing choice. Had one as a rental car down in Florida a week back and man, was it a blast to drive. Mazda really knows how to properly engineer small cars.

If you're looking to spend a little bit more for something even more fun than the 3 (which I'll say is the most enjoyable of the list), check out the VW GTI with the DSG gearbox. Still pulls out decent fuel economy, but man... is it ever a force to be reckoned with. I think there are a few GTI owners on the forums, maybe they can pipe in with a word or two.
 
I have to throw in the Hyundai Accent too. Can be had for $10,000 or less with A/C and all the other stuff some of these cars don't come with. Plus you get one of if not the best warranty in the auto industry and if you lose your job within the next year Hyundai will take the car back. Hyundai's reliability ratings are also up there with Honda these days.
 
[quote name='Illini Jeeper']I love these kind of quotes from you DoK, especially when you drive V8 powered Charger. ;)
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that was before I started dating my boyfriend and he turned me into a hippie. :D I still love pretty much everything about my Charger except the mediocre mpg. I don't drive it nearly enough for buying a new, more fuel efficient car to make sense though. I plan on learning stick this summer so I can drive my boyfriend's Fit for the 10 mile commute to work when I start in September.
 
Definitely learn to drive stick. IMO, every driver should know how in case of an emergency or something. Also, stick is WAY more fun to drive than an automatic.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Except in heavy traffic, then manuals are a pain in the ass.[/quote]

I honestly don't notice it.

[quote name='VipFREAK']No, it's just more challenging then. I LOVE sticks and will never go back.[/quote]

Me too but the wife wants an automatic. :cry:

We are looking at the CR-V now too. It's a little pricier than I want but the ratings are good and I could actually put the kids in there.
 
I hate sticks, sort of learned back in high school, but probably couldn't drive one today and would never buy one. I want everything in life, especially routine tasks like driving, to be as convenient as possible.

That said, one of the things I love about my Mazda 3 is you have the option of fullly automatic or being able to change gears yourself (kind of, won't let you shift at certain speeds, downshifts automatically when you slow down if you don't downshift first etc.) by just pushing the stick up or down with no clutch or anything to worry about.

But I still drive in the fully automatic probably 85% of the time.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I hate sticks, sort of learned back in high school, but probably couldn't drive one today and would never buy one. I want everything in life, especially routine tasks like driving, to be as convenient as possible.

That said, one of the things I love about my Mazda 3 is you have the option of fullly automatic or being able to change gears yourself (kind of, won't let you shift at certain speeds, downshifts automatically when you slow down if you don't downshift first etc.) by just pushing the stick up or down with no clutch or anything to worry about.

But I still drive in the fully automatic probably 85% of the time.[/quote]

I have noticed that everything you ever say is because you seem too lazy to want to do anything.
I cant play anything except games like gears that require thought.
I cant drive a stick because it requires thought and hand eye coordination.
I could find more things that you say you hate because it requires effort, but dude. Come on driving a stick does not require effort. It requires more effort to change the radio station.
 
To each their own.

I'm not lazy at all. I work very hard (and long hours), go to the gym etc. I just like convenience in things like driving as I'm usually pretty tired and burned out on evenings (if I have one) and weekends. A lot of the posters here are high school kids and college kids. Many of you will be singing a different tune when your huge amounts of free time shrink dramatically.

I don't like dealing with a clutch, especially in stop and go traffic or on hills. The shifting is fun at times, but I can do that in my Mazda 3 with out fucking with a clutch.

With games, it's not laziness. I just play games I have fun with--which are largely FPS and western RPGs. Games I can pick up and play and not have to "practice" like you do with fighting games, action games etc. That's just not fun to me after a long day/week of work. I just want to play something I can turn on and veg out and not have to work to be good at.

To each their own.
 
speaking of driving stick i love it, been doing it since 12 or so, it's how i learned. who can shift gears with their left hand? I think it's something I picked up while using the cell, but friends are always amazed when I do it, it's pretty natural though. maybe should get a right hand driver!
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Yeah I know what they are. Since I have owned my car I have never locked my brakes up in any type of emergency stop so that means if I had anti-lock brakes they would still be unused. So PISS on anti-lock brakes.[/quote]

Since I have owned my car I have never had my airbags deployed in any kind of crash so that means if I had airbags they would still be unused. So PISS on airbags.

Since I have owned my car I have never had my seat belts lock up so that means if I had seat belts they would still be unused. So PISS on seat belts.

Since I have been here I have never had a health issue so that means if I had health insurance it would be unused. So PISS on health insurance.
 
[quote name='von551'] who can shift gears with their left hand? [/quote]

Ugh... I can't, I'd be an uncoordinated retard. I can't even wear a watch on my right hand. (left handed)
 
Rick, everything you mentioned is for after the accident. Brakes are before the accident and if you are a shitty driver and require alb to keep you from wrecking that is your problem. I dont feel a need for alb. Alb dont do a fucking thing if someone hits you...all the other shit you mentioned does.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Rick, everything you mentioned is for after the accident. Brakes are before the accident and if you are a shitty driver and require alb to keep you from wrecking that is your problem. I dont feel a need for alb. Alb dont do a fucking thing if someone hits you...all the other shit you mentioned does.[/QUOTE]
Good luck trying to buy insurance after getting sick. ABS can help you stop someone from hitting you.
 
[quote name='rickonker']ABS can help you stop someone from hitting you.[/quote]

Last time I checked, if an object is at rest and another object in motion is moving towards it, applying anti-lock brakes to the object at rest still gets its ass smashed.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Last time I checked, if an object is at rest and another object in motion is moving towards it, applying anti-lock brakes to the object at rest still gets its ass smashed.[/QUOTE]
So you're always at rest when you're driving? How does that work exactly?
 
From what I have read you also have to use premium gas in the smart cars. I own a 06 Scion xb (the last year before they remodeled the vehicle) and it gets about 32 mpg.
 
[quote name='rickonker']So you're always at rest when you're driving? How does that work exactly?[/quote]

If two object in motion are headed towards each other and one of those objects applies anti-lock brakes, the object in motion, amazingly, still hits the other object.

Anti-lock brakes keep YOU from hitting shit, not shit from hitting you - that is called a force field. No production vehicles currently have force fields as a factory (or any) option.
 
You do realize that no matter how safe and careful a driver you are that you may have to slam on brakes due to factors out of your control right? Some one pulling out in front of you. Deer or other animals jumping out in front of you. Dumb ass pedestrians jay walking. etc. etc.

You may not feel you need ABL (maybe you're just poor as fuck and want to save money where ever you can), but there's no denying that ABL is a useful thing to have in a car. Maybe not a necessity, but it's a nice safety feature to have nonetheless.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']You do realize that no matter how safe and careful a driver you are that you may have to slam on brakes due to factors out of your control right? Some one pulling out in front of you. Deer or other animals jumping out in front of you. Dumb ass pedestrians jay walking. etc. etc.

You may not feel you need ABL (maybe you're just poor as fuck and want to save money where ever you can), but there's no denying that ABL is a useful thing to have in a car. Maybe not a necessity, but it's a nice safety feature to have nonetheless.[/quote]

I completely agree with you. I just prefer not to have anti-lock brakes on the little car I drive cause I don't feel the need for them as a must have safety feature. My next vehicle which will most likely be a full sized 4 door truck (Tundra) will definatley have the feature. I feel anti-lock brakes are important to have on heavier, harder to stop vehicles as oppossed to my little 2 door car.
 
People used to say Seatbelts were more dangerous than good, and nobody would wear them. "I'll get cut in half!" (remember, shoulder belts didn't appear until waaaay later).

Then they'd get in a minor fender-bender at 10mph without wearing a seatbelt and find themselves in the ICU.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']I completely agree with you. I just prefer not to have anti-lock brakes on the little car I drive cause I don't feel the need for them as a must have safety feature. My next vehicle which will most likely be a full sized 4 door truck (Tundra) will definatley have the feature. I feel anti-lock brakes are important to have on heavier, harder to stop vehicles as oppossed to my little 2 door car.[/QUOTE]

I can see that. Doesn't hurt to have them on smaller cars as well. Anything to add safety is a good thing in my book.

Tends to be moot for me as none of the models I looked at came without ALB in configurations I would consider buying (some didn't offer models without them, some only in barebones that lacked to many other things I wanted).
 
[quote name='captainfrizo']As someone who's worked for Honda and has other family members working for Toyota/Lexus...your statement there isn't quite as true as you may think or hope.

Oddly enough, the technicians at the dealerships I worked for and have been around all drive American cars and the majority won't touch foreign outside of work. Take that for what it's worth.[/quote]

For what it's worth I don't trust those techs at dealerships barely making $10/hr. My mechanic's owned his own shop in town for 25 years and is the most honest under-selling mechanic one could hope for and he drives japanese. I would think the reasoning behind those techs is that american cars have cheaper parts and obviously they know how to work on their own cars, they're not the average person. it's not hoping or thinking that toyota is reliable, it's in the stats. it's always honda, subaru, and toyota in the top three for reliability. my dad's '85 toyota pickup ran well into the early 2000's and my '03 is still kickin hard as ever.
 
So the question is then, what makes toyotas more reliable? Do people drive them differently? Are the parts made by better companies who adhere to tighter tolerances? Are they simply designed better? Or is it more along the lines of peoples expectations and perceptions? Or do the Japanese simply shoot for higher goals than American companies do? And, what about the Koreans?
 
I think most people pin the reliabilty of japanese cars to having better assembly lines and using better parts.

As for not listening to dealer mechanics, I tend to agree. You have to remember that those people do nothing all day but work on cars that did have problems (well and routine maintenance of course) so they may have skewed views of the models they work on. But that doesn't mean that the reliability isn't much higher than other makes still.
 
Well what does a "better assembly line" actually mean? The workers are better at assembling? Or the parts engineered are better. And if so, where do those parts come from, the lowest bidder or what?

Now having said all that, I worked for a time for a major aircraft component manufacturer...and I saw the people who assemble these parts...and frankly, it scared the beejeebus out of me to get on a plane after that :p

You want nerds with rocket science degrees assembling stuff like this....instead its a whole lotta Fred and Barneys sneaking beers at lunch :p
 
I don't know the specifics, I just remember reading that part of the reason the Japanese companies are doing better is the factories are more reliable and the workers much better trained--i.e. they get trained on everything rather than just one job. So I assume those type of things lead to less assembly fuck ups.

For parts I'm not sure. I imagine they're engineered in Japan rather than the US, so that probably helps (engineering seems better over their--look at technology devices). I also suspect that they do less of going to the lowest bidder than US companies have. US manufacturing is all about getting something made and on the market as cheaply as possible.

But it could just be my bias as I've never liked American cars.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I don't know the specifics, I just remember reading that part of the reason the Japanese companies are doing better is the factories are more reliable and the workers much better trained--i.e. they get trained on everything rather than just one job. So I assume those type of things lead to less assembly fuck ups.

For parts I'm not sure. I imagine they're engineered in Japan rather than the US, so that probably helps (engineering seems better over their--look at technology devices). I also suspect that they do less of going to the lowest bidder than US companies have. US manufacturing is all about getting something made and on the market as cheaply as possible.

But it could just be my bias as I've never liked American cars.[/QUOTE]


also the japanese work ethic is incredible. They rarely take holidays and they have alot of pride in what they due. If its efficiency than thats a different story. alot of companies tend to carry dead weight due to the attachment of an employee. But yeah the factories and workers work with alot of pride and care. So you should be getting quality stuff with a work force who is that dedicated.
 
The corporate philosophies are different. Their view is that higher quality will reduce costs in the end, and they invest more in engineering and quality control. American car companies focus on costs first, leading to a decline in quality and ultimately higher costs. The Japanese do enjoy a significant cost advantage in the first place which reinforces both views.

It begins and ends with management. Read this guy's biography and see what he did for the Japanese, and later Ford.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_deming
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I don't know the specifics, I just remember reading that part of the reason the Japanese companies are doing better is the factories are more reliable and the workers much better trained--i.e. they get trained on everything rather than just one job. So I assume those type of things lead to less assembly fuck ups.

For parts I'm not sure. I imagine they're engineered in Japan rather than the US, so that probably helps (engineering seems better over their--look at technology devices). I also suspect that they do less of going to the lowest bidder than US companies have. US manufacturing is all about getting something made and on the market as cheaply as possible.

But it could just be my bias as I've never liked American cars.[/QUOTE]

Not all Japanese cars are engineered in Japan. Like I said, my boyfriend worked for Honda in America, and a lot of the engineering was done here for some models, not at all for others.
 
Between me and my parents, we have had 4 Hyundai Elantras since 2001 and have been happy with them. Good mileage and low maintenance and safe.
 
I want to STRANGLE car salesmen. I just spent TWO full days going to dealerships trying to buy a car and it was the worst buying experience I've ever had (and I haven't bought anything yet). The wife and I have kind of settled on the Toyota Rav4 but the people at the two places we went were total dicks. We looked at Honda, Acura, Ford and a couple of others and every single one of them were offering prices UNDER invoice. The Toyota people would barely move from MSRP. SO frustrating.

We are headed back in a little bit to see if we can get a Toyota Rav4 AWD V6 Sport for $25,000 otherwise we are going beck to Honda to get the fully loaded (leather, Nav, etc.) CR-V for $24,900. I liked the power of the V6 in the Toyota as well as the interior design but I refuse to be ripped off.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Wow, that's quite a change from wanting a small car in the $10-12K range. :D[/QUOTE]

this.

i thought you just needed a car for work javery?
 
[quote name='javeryh']I want to STRANGLE car salesmen. I just spent TWO full days going to dealerships trying to buy a car and it was the worst buying experience I've ever had (and I haven't bought anything yet). The wife and I have kind of settled on the Toyota Rav4 but the people at the two places we went were total dicks. We looked at Honda, Acura, Ford and a couple of others and every single one of them were offering prices UNDER invoice. The Toyota people would barely move from MSRP. SO frustrating.

We are headed back in a little bit to see if we can get a Toyota Rav4 AWD V6 Sport for $25,000 otherwise we are going beck to Honda to get the fully loaded (leather, Nav, etc.) CR-V for $24,900. I liked the power of the V6 in the Toyota as well as the interior design but I refuse to be ripped off.[/quote]

my parents own a rav4 and it's a blast to drive. why the change from compact car though? Oh, if you really want to take the headache out of car shopping, go through an auto broker. That's what I did through my credit union and they do all the leg work for free, calling dealerships for cheapest prices, delivering car to credit union, etc. I called in the morning and by the afternoon went and picked up my car from the credit union, signed papers and everything right there at credit union. just a thought.

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If I had to guess, I guess the change was for the wife, as he said earlier that she was pushing for an Accord or larger car.

So maybe they decided to go with a small SUV and he'll drive her car for his commute or something?
 
[quote name='javeryh']I want to STRANGLE car salesmen. I just spent TWO full days going to dealerships trying to buy a car and it was the worst buying experience I've ever had (and I haven't bought anything yet). The wife and I have kind of settled on the Toyota Rav4 but the people at the two places we went were total dicks. We looked at Honda, Acura, Ford and a couple of others and every single one of them were offering prices UNDER invoice. The Toyota people would barely move from MSRP. SO frustrating.

We are headed back in a little bit to see if we can get a Toyota Rav4 AWD V6 Sport for $25,000 otherwise we are going beck to Honda to get the fully loaded (leather, Nav, etc.) CR-V for $24,900. I liked the power of the V6 in the Toyota as well as the interior design but I refuse to be ripped off.[/quote]


Go to Toyota's website and then send off for an email quote from your local dealers...once they all get back you take the best deal offered and send it to all the other dealers telling them that is the offer you want them to beat. Then you do that until you get the best deal. Before you go to the dealer you get financing taken care of BEFORE you step foot on the dealership. Once there you go see the guy who you were emailing and show him/her the quote they gave you. Then you offer them less than the quote since yo uare basically paying in cash. Works pretty well for me.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']If I had to guess, I guess the change was for the wife, as he said earlier that she was pushing for an Accord or larger car.

So maybe they decided to go with a small SUV and he'll drive her car for his commute or something?[/quote]

yeh, his balls must have fallen off in the last week. LOL. i know how it is being married.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']If I had to guess, I guess the change was for the wife, as he said earlier that she was pushing for an Accord or larger car.

So maybe they decided to go with a small SUV and he'll drive her car for his commute or something?[/quote]

Exactly. Well, almost. My wife will continue to drive our MDX but when that dies we will have another "family car" to drive the kids around in. Plus, my kids are getting to the age where they are going to have various weekend activities that we will be carting them around to. I would have been fine with a $12,000 car just for work but it does make sense for us to get something a little bigger.

We ended up with the 2009 Rav4 Sport for invoice. The V6 engine is really nice. Plus, it came with XM for a year! I love how it is covered in mud after driving it for 30 minutes. Oh well, the inside smells nice!
 
[quote name='von551']For what it's worth I don't trust those techs at dealerships barely making $10/hr. My mechanic's owned his own shop in town for 25 years and is the most honest under-selling mechanic one could hope for and he drives japanese. I would think the reasoning behind those techs is that american cars have cheaper parts and obviously they know how to work on their own cars, they're not the average person. it's not hoping or thinking that toyota is reliable, it's in the stats. it's always honda, subaru, and toyota in the top three for reliability. my dad's '85 toyota pickup ran well into the early 2000's and my '03 is still kickin hard as ever.[/QUOTE]


Actually as an automotive technician for Toyota and previously Lincoln I do recommend Japanese and European (German) cars. however that dealership technicians barely making $10 an hour is bullox. Maybe a brand new untrained tech, but a good deal of master techs make between $28-$40 hourly. Also remember that an hour pay is not necessarily an actual hour of time.

But to add to the thread I can back the hyundai accent. i had one I got dirt cheap and drove for 100,000 miles never putting more than brakes and tires into the car and still got 40-45 mpg

Also Reccomend the Yaris or corolla
 
[quote name='javeryh']Exactly. Well, almost. My wife will continue to drive our MDX but when that dies we will have another "family car" to drive the kids around in. Plus, my kids are getting to the age where they are going to have various weekend activities that we will be carting them around to. I would have been fine with a $12,000 car just for work but it does make sense for us to get something a little bigger.

We ended up with the 2009 Rav4 Sport for invoice. The V6 engine is really nice. Plus, it came with XM for a year! I love how it is covered in mud after driving it for 30 minutes. Oh well, the inside smells nice![/quote]

nice, yeah my parents '08 rav4 v6 hauls butt and is really nice.
 
[quote name='Dustwalker14']Actually as an automotive technician for Toyota and previously Lincoln I do recommend Japanese and European (German) cars. however that dealership technicians barely making $10 an hour is bullox. Maybe a brand new untrained tech, but a good deal of master techs make between $28-$40 hourly. Also remember that an hour pay is not necessarily an actual hour of time.

But to add to the thread I can back the hyundai accent. i had one I got dirt cheap and drove for 100,000 miles never putting more than brakes and tires into the car and still got 40-45 mpg

Also Reccomend the Yaris or corolla[/quote]

yes, i understand master tech pay, but how many are there really? most are tire changing grunts that make less than me. I was just getting at I'd rather take my shop-owning expert mechanic that his livelihood depends on repeat business over some punk in the back of Toyota straigth outta MTI just there for a paycheck.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']If two object in motion are headed towards each other and one of those objects applies anti-lock brakes, the object in motion, amazingly, still hits the other object.[/quote]

Maybe if you live in a 1D world. In the real world a car could be approaching an intersection from an angle, and if you stop faster or steer better (ABS generally improves steering ability) you could avoid hitting it altogether.

Actually, even your 1D example is wrong, because you're assuming the other car isn't braking at all. And even if they did hit each other, with ABS the collision could be at a safer angle or a slower speed, which reduces the chance of serious injury.
 
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