I don't think that a person is worth more or less because of what they do for a living. I can understand that kids don't grow up saying "I want to be a janitor!", but those people are worth no less than anyone else. You can argue some people are more important than other people, and I guess I can understand that, however the more important someone is, the less they want to do anything they see as beneath them. For that I would say to look at how people don't give a damn when they make a mess somewhere, because they know someone else will just clean it up, and they don't want to get down and do it themselves. So if anyone thinks janitors are unimportant, just wait until they have to clean up after themselves and see how important janitors suddenly are.
I should have been a custodian
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The problem I've noticed with the IT field is that the majority of jobs in that field now are either low-end tech support (which means you're better off working at a supermarket) or high-end programming. I think it's because the world at large has become more familiar with computers, even if I think we've gotten progressively worse. I know a great deal more than many people, but I still know very little in comparison.
cindersphere
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[quote name='camoor']That's cute but it's way out of whack with mainstream American society.
I'm just curious, how would you define your overall political philsophy? IMO you sound like an idealistic Communist.[/QUOTE]
What's cute? My opinion of IT? I honestly wasn't trying to be cute at all, and not really out of whack with American society IMO. Most IT are basically relegated to menial tasks, given little respect, and for the most part are not thought of as relatively important.
If your serious in thinking of me as a communist, then I have to answer no. I really don't equate employment nor working with the highest virtues, a pre req in my opinion for being a communist. No, actually I guess if I am the closest ideology I would say I am more of a liberal egalitarian. Although I guess it depends on how you look at ideology, I mean if you wanted to you could try to say I was a market socialist, but I believe I am closer to liberal egalitarian.
I'm just curious, how would you define your overall political philsophy? IMO you sound like an idealistic Communist.[/QUOTE]
What's cute? My opinion of IT? I honestly wasn't trying to be cute at all, and not really out of whack with American society IMO. Most IT are basically relegated to menial tasks, given little respect, and for the most part are not thought of as relatively important.
If your serious in thinking of me as a communist, then I have to answer no. I really don't equate employment nor working with the highest virtues, a pre req in my opinion for being a communist. No, actually I guess if I am the closest ideology I would say I am more of a liberal egalitarian. Although I guess it depends on how you look at ideology, I mean if you wanted to you could try to say I was a market socialist, but I believe I am closer to liberal egalitarian.
[quote name='davo1224']The problem I've noticed with the IT field is that the majority of jobs in that field now are either low-end tech support (which means you're better off working at a supermarket) or high-end programming. I think it's because the world at large has become more familiar with computers, even if I think we've gotten progressively worse. I know a great deal more than many people, but I still know very little in comparison.[/QUOTE]
It depends, a lot of companies are simply outsourcing the simpler stuff like desktop support. Which means the jobs are at those outsourcing companies, and probably get paid less. Colleges on the other hand seem to keep everything on site. That may change eventually as old faculty retire, but I don't think it will be very common still. Most faculty seem to know just enough to use things like office and an internet browser, and that's about it. For anything else, or any problems that creep up they're going to need support staff. They also don't like to wait very long, and outsourcing stuff like that could take longer.
i have seen the other end too however, those in the sciences who, despite being in something like chemistry, actually know a fair bit about different softwares etc. I'll never forget talking about Linux with one of our chem professors.
It depends, a lot of companies are simply outsourcing the simpler stuff like desktop support. Which means the jobs are at those outsourcing companies, and probably get paid less. Colleges on the other hand seem to keep everything on site. That may change eventually as old faculty retire, but I don't think it will be very common still. Most faculty seem to know just enough to use things like office and an internet browser, and that's about it. For anything else, or any problems that creep up they're going to need support staff. They also don't like to wait very long, and outsourcing stuff like that could take longer.
i have seen the other end too however, those in the sciences who, despite being in something like chemistry, actually know a fair bit about different softwares etc. I'll never forget talking about Linux with one of our chem professors.
[quote name='Clak']It depends, a lot of companies are simply outsourcing the simpler stuff like desktop support. Which means the jobs are at those outsourcing companies, and probably get paid less. Colleges on the other hand seem to keep everything on site. That may change eventually as old faculty retire, but I don't think it will be very common still. Most faculty seem to know just enough to use things like office and an internet browser, and that's about it. For anything else, or any problems that creep up they're going to need support staff. They also don't like to wait very long, and outsourcing stuff like that could take longer.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's an age thing. Older faculty didn't grow up with computers and need more IT support. Younger faculty like me seldom call on them as I can install software and deal with viruses/spyware etc. on my own for the most part as I've been using computers most of my life.
Hell, I just upgraded by work provided laptop to windows 7 myself rather than having them do it as they do a disc image install that takes a lot longer to boot for some reason.
I'm sure it varies by type of college to. Research university faculty are probably more knowledgeable on average since we have to use a lot of special software for statistical analyses etc. and aren't using just Office etc.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's an age thing. Older faculty didn't grow up with computers and need more IT support. Younger faculty like me seldom call on them as I can install software and deal with viruses/spyware etc. on my own for the most part as I've been using computers most of my life.
Hell, I just upgraded by work provided laptop to windows 7 myself rather than having them do it as they do a disc image install that takes a lot longer to boot for some reason.
I'm sure it varies by type of college to. Research university faculty are probably more knowledgeable on average since we have to use a lot of special software for statistical analyses etc. and aren't using just Office etc.
[quote name='dmaul1114']
But we spend at least a 1/3rd of hour adult lives (increasingly 50+ years) laboring on our careers, so people should strive to do something meaningful with that time IMO. [/QUOTE]
I don't mean to be rude, but why do you think that your work is "meaningful?" Also, did you stop your education or leave academia at any point to work in the "real world"?
Personally, I'm impressed by someone who does their job well, regardless of what their job may be.
But we spend at least a 1/3rd of hour adult lives (increasingly 50+ years) laboring on our careers, so people should strive to do something meaningful with that time IMO. [/QUOTE]
I don't mean to be rude, but why do you think that your work is "meaningful?" Also, did you stop your education or leave academia at any point to work in the "real world"?
Personally, I'm impressed by someone who does their job well, regardless of what their job may be.
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[quote name='chiwii']I don't mean to be rude, but why do you think that your work is "meaningful?" Also, did you stop your education or leave academia at any point to work in the "real world"?
Personally, I'm impressed by someone who does their job well, regardless of what their job may be.[/QUOTE]
My job's certainly not as meaningful as many other professions like K-12 teachers, doctors, social workers and numerous others IMO.
By I work primarily on research with police agencies aimed at finding what tactics work the best in making communities safer while minimizing any negative impacts for law-abiding citizens in targeted communities. I'd say that's meaningful. And it involves doing work with practitioners in the real world.
And even in purely academic terms, any generating of new knowledge is meaningful as the world can't be improved without improvements in knowledge. The criminal justice system can only improve through research demonstrating what works best and using that knowledge to shape practice. Same with medicine or anything else.
And then there's the teaching aspect of it of giving knowledge to students who go on to be criminal justice practitioners that hopefully helps them do a better job in their careers.
Finally, as I've said repeatedly, I'm don't judge people's worth by their professions. I'm talking about the respect/admiration I (and society on average) has for various professions. A janitor can do a great job, work hard and provide for his/her family and be a great person in general--and thus be worthy of a lot of respect. Just like a doctor or whatever can be a shitty person in their personal life--and not be worthy of respect.
But in terms of only looking at career, I have more admiration for people who applied themselves and did something meaningful with their careers than people who just bust ass in menial jobs.
Again, that's saying nothing about whether they're a good person or not. Just a reflection of the value that's placed on their profession. Again, parents don't sit around hoping their kids grow up to be janitors or factory workers etc. So I'm not saying anything controversial here, people just keep reading it the wrong way.
Personally, I'm impressed by someone who does their job well, regardless of what their job may be.[/QUOTE]
My job's certainly not as meaningful as many other professions like K-12 teachers, doctors, social workers and numerous others IMO.
By I work primarily on research with police agencies aimed at finding what tactics work the best in making communities safer while minimizing any negative impacts for law-abiding citizens in targeted communities. I'd say that's meaningful. And it involves doing work with practitioners in the real world.
And even in purely academic terms, any generating of new knowledge is meaningful as the world can't be improved without improvements in knowledge. The criminal justice system can only improve through research demonstrating what works best and using that knowledge to shape practice. Same with medicine or anything else.
And then there's the teaching aspect of it of giving knowledge to students who go on to be criminal justice practitioners that hopefully helps them do a better job in their careers.
Finally, as I've said repeatedly, I'm don't judge people's worth by their professions. I'm talking about the respect/admiration I (and society on average) has for various professions. A janitor can do a great job, work hard and provide for his/her family and be a great person in general--and thus be worthy of a lot of respect. Just like a doctor or whatever can be a shitty person in their personal life--and not be worthy of respect.
But in terms of only looking at career, I have more admiration for people who applied themselves and did something meaningful with their careers than people who just bust ass in menial jobs.
Again, that's saying nothing about whether they're a good person or not. Just a reflection of the value that's placed on their profession. Again, parents don't sit around hoping their kids grow up to be janitors or factory workers etc. So I'm not saying anything controversial here, people just keep reading it the wrong way.
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[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, it's an age thing. Older faculty didn't grow up with computers and need more IT support. Younger faculty like me seldom call on them as I can install software and deal with viruses/spyware etc. on my own for the most part as I've been using computers most of my life.
Hell, I just upgraded by work provided laptop to windows 7 myself rather than having them do it as they do a disc image install that takes a lot longer to boot for some reason.
I'm sure it varies by type of college to. Research university faculty are probably more knowledgeable on average since we have to use a lot of special software for statistical analyses etc. and aren't using just Office etc.[/QUOTE]
Heh, I'd say it depends on what kind of research you mean. I work at a research school, and aside from those in the sciences as I said earlier, office is about the extent of their ability. Put it this way, do you backup any of your important research data on your own? Or would you just hope that in the event of a problem that IT could save it all?
Hell I've caught some using bittorrent if you can believe that, I'm grateful we have good anti-virus software.
Hell, I just upgraded by work provided laptop to windows 7 myself rather than having them do it as they do a disc image install that takes a lot longer to boot for some reason.
I'm sure it varies by type of college to. Research university faculty are probably more knowledgeable on average since we have to use a lot of special software for statistical analyses etc. and aren't using just Office etc.[/QUOTE]
Heh, I'd say it depends on what kind of research you mean. I work at a research school, and aside from those in the sciences as I said earlier, office is about the extent of their ability. Put it this way, do you backup any of your important research data on your own? Or would you just hope that in the event of a problem that IT could save it all?
Hell I've caught some using bittorrent if you can believe that, I'm grateful we have good anti-virus software.
I back up everything obsessively. I have all my data etc. on my office hard drive, an external hard drive, my work laptop hard drive and my home desktop that I seldom use. Smaller files like drafts of papers I also keep on the cloud with drop box.
That's pretty common among my other junior colleagues in the social sciences, grad school classmates etc.. But I notice that a lot of the older faculty don't back up much, loses pages of writing as they haven't hit save for a couple hours before the power flickers etc. They also tend to be more likely to do all or most of their work in the office, so they aren't getting the "natural" back ups myself and others get from simply having to have the data in multiple places to allow working from home on nights and weekends a lot.
So I think it's more an age thing. I've was using computers from high school on up so I have long been engrained in the importance of back ups, the need to keep a computer running well to be able to do my work etc.
So I'd think as the work force becomes more fully staffed by people who grew up on computers a lot of the lower level IT stuff will become less necessary and be more and more focused on maintaing the networks and servers, setting up new computers on the network etc. rather than dealing with mundane shit people should be able to handle on their own.
That's pretty common among my other junior colleagues in the social sciences, grad school classmates etc.. But I notice that a lot of the older faculty don't back up much, loses pages of writing as they haven't hit save for a couple hours before the power flickers etc. They also tend to be more likely to do all or most of their work in the office, so they aren't getting the "natural" back ups myself and others get from simply having to have the data in multiple places to allow working from home on nights and weekends a lot.
So I think it's more an age thing. I've was using computers from high school on up so I have long been engrained in the importance of back ups, the need to keep a computer running well to be able to do my work etc.
So I'd think as the work force becomes more fully staffed by people who grew up on computers a lot of the lower level IT stuff will become less necessary and be more and more focused on maintaing the networks and servers, setting up new computers on the network etc. rather than dealing with mundane shit people should be able to handle on their own.
[quote name='dmaul1114']You might be able to find some of that type of occupation specific info here:
http://www.bls.gov/oes/home.htm
There's a lot there and I don't have the patience to dig through it at the moment. Though at a glance it seems like the data lags behind a couple years (the few tables I found were 2009 data).
That said, IT is going to be a tough field. That hits on my earlier point of a lot of success being luck in getting in the right field at the right time.
IT was a hot field a few years ago, but has gotten tough as so many people went and got computer science degrees, certifications in trade schools etc.
So unfortunately for you, I'd guess unemployment will be slower to improve in that field than in some others. I doubt it will get much better until we see another boom in new businesses opening and existing ones expanding, and thus creating new IT positions along with everything else.[/QUOTE]Well I just found out I make less than the average for my job title. I'll have to save this for when I come up for a raise.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/home.htm
There's a lot there and I don't have the patience to dig through it at the moment. Though at a glance it seems like the data lags behind a couple years (the few tables I found were 2009 data).
That said, IT is going to be a tough field. That hits on my earlier point of a lot of success being luck in getting in the right field at the right time.
IT was a hot field a few years ago, but has gotten tough as so many people went and got computer science degrees, certifications in trade schools etc.
So unfortunately for you, I'd guess unemployment will be slower to improve in that field than in some others. I doubt it will get much better until we see another boom in new businesses opening and existing ones expanding, and thus creating new IT positions along with everything else.[/QUOTE]Well I just found out I make less than the average for my job title. I'll have to save this for when I come up for a raise.
[quote name='dmaul1114']I back up everything obsessively. I have all my data etc. on my office hard drive, an external hard drive, my work laptop hard drive and my home desktop that I seldom use. Smaller files like drafts of papers I also keep on the cloud with drop box.
That's pretty common among my other junior colleagues in the social sciences, grad school classmates etc.. But I notice that a lot of the older faculty don't back up much, loses pages of writing as they haven't hit save for a couple hours before the power flickers etc. They also tend to be more likely to do all or most of their work in the office, so they aren't getting the "natural" back ups myself and others get from simply having to have the data in multiple places to allow working from home on nights and weekends a lot.
So I think it's more an age thing. I've was using computers from high school on up so I have long been engrained in the importance of back ups, the need to keep a computer running well to be able to do my work etc.
So I'd think as the work force becomes more fully staffed by people who grew up on computers a lot of the lower level IT stuff will become less necessary and be more and more focused on maintaing the networks and servers, setting up new computers on the network etc. rather than dealing with mundane shit people should be able to handle on their own.[/QUOTE]
Possibly, but it seems to me that the computer knowledge of most college students is centered around facebook. I don't know, we'll see in the future I suppose, from my perspective I don't have much faith.
As for older faculty, that's definitely true. Then when you can't recover everything they get upset with you, as if you can pull it out of the air. I'd say the schools should provide some sort of seminar or something to faculty about basic computer practices, but most of them probably wouldn't want to go anyway.
That's pretty common among my other junior colleagues in the social sciences, grad school classmates etc.. But I notice that a lot of the older faculty don't back up much, loses pages of writing as they haven't hit save for a couple hours before the power flickers etc. They also tend to be more likely to do all or most of their work in the office, so they aren't getting the "natural" back ups myself and others get from simply having to have the data in multiple places to allow working from home on nights and weekends a lot.
So I think it's more an age thing. I've was using computers from high school on up so I have long been engrained in the importance of back ups, the need to keep a computer running well to be able to do my work etc.
So I'd think as the work force becomes more fully staffed by people who grew up on computers a lot of the lower level IT stuff will become less necessary and be more and more focused on maintaing the networks and servers, setting up new computers on the network etc. rather than dealing with mundane shit people should be able to handle on their own.[/QUOTE]
Possibly, but it seems to me that the computer knowledge of most college students is centered around facebook. I don't know, we'll see in the future I suppose, from my perspective I don't have much faith.
As for older faculty, that's definitely true. Then when you can't recover everything they get upset with you, as if you can pull it out of the air. I'd say the schools should provide some sort of seminar or something to faculty about basic computer practices, but most of them probably wouldn't want to go anyway.
[quote name='Clak']Possibly, but it seems to me that the computer knowledge of most college students is centered around facebook. I don't know, we'll see in the future I suppose, from my perspective I don't have much faith.
As for older faculty, that's definitely true. Then when you can't recover everything they get upset with you, as if you can pull it out of the air. I'd say the schools should provide some sort of seminar or something to faculty about basic computer practices, but most of them probably wouldn't want to go anyway.[/QUOTE]
Yeah...most people still don't build their own computers and only know Very basic troubleshooting, if that.
As for older faculty, that's definitely true. Then when you can't recover everything they get upset with you, as if you can pull it out of the air. I'd say the schools should provide some sort of seminar or something to faculty about basic computer practices, but most of them probably wouldn't want to go anyway.[/QUOTE]
Yeah...most people still don't build their own computers and only know Very basic troubleshooting, if that.
Yeah, the average person isn't going to build their own computer etc. ever.
But I think people in my generation and younger (with the younger ones even more knowledgeable on average than 30 somethings like me) are a lot more competent than older generations in terms of knowing the importance of backing up data, how to install software, how to keep the anti-virus software updated and run scans etc.
So I think over time some of those menial IT tasks will become a smaller part of IT professionals jobs. Particularly in universities and business with more educated employees who've spent their whole lives on computers etc.
But I think people in my generation and younger (with the younger ones even more knowledgeable on average than 30 somethings like me) are a lot more competent than older generations in terms of knowing the importance of backing up data, how to install software, how to keep the anti-virus software updated and run scans etc.
So I think over time some of those menial IT tasks will become a smaller part of IT professionals jobs. Particularly in universities and business with more educated employees who've spent their whole lives on computers etc.
[quote name='Clak']Well I just found out I make less than the average for my job title. I'll have to save this for when I come up for a raise.[/QUOTE]
Make sure to pull up the average salary for your state/metropolitan area.
They won't care about the national average if you're in a lower cost of living area etc.
Make sure to pull up the average salary for your state/metropolitan area.
They won't care about the national average if you're in a lower cost of living area etc.
cindersphere
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Unfortunately I think i helped to derail this thread.
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, the average person isn't going to build their own computer etc. ever.
But I think people in my generation and younger (with the younger ones even more knowledgeable on average than 30 somethings like me) are a lot more competent than older generations in terms of knowing the importance of backing up data, how to install software, how to keep the anti-virus software updated and run scans etc.
So I think over time some of those menial IT tasks will become a smaller part of IT professionals jobs. Particularly in universities and business with more educated employees who've spent their whole lives on computers etc.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that they'd eliminate those positions ever in large universities of large businesses. Security is a HUGE issue and simple user account controls aren't enough to prevent someone from mucking up their workstation. Menial is kind of a misnomer because "simple" troubleshooting is something that the average employee won't have access to. But that's something that a good IT dept would be enforcing instead of letting users like you go willy nilly on running torrents on school property.
Smaller businesses, I can totally see just contracting all of that stuff.
But I think people in my generation and younger (with the younger ones even more knowledgeable on average than 30 somethings like me) are a lot more competent than older generations in terms of knowing the importance of backing up data, how to install software, how to keep the anti-virus software updated and run scans etc.
So I think over time some of those menial IT tasks will become a smaller part of IT professionals jobs. Particularly in universities and business with more educated employees who've spent their whole lives on computers etc.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that they'd eliminate those positions ever in large universities of large businesses. Security is a HUGE issue and simple user account controls aren't enough to prevent someone from mucking up their workstation. Menial is kind of a misnomer because "simple" troubleshooting is something that the average employee won't have access to. But that's something that a good IT dept would be enforcing instead of letting users like you go willy nilly on running torrents on school property.
Smaller businesses, I can totally see just contracting all of that stuff.
Oh yeah, IT position's won't go away as they have to have them in house to keep the network up and running and all that kind of stuff. They'll just cut back on things like the low-level people (mostly student assistants anyway) who do nothing but minor trouble shooting as they'll be less needed over time.
As for torrents, I don't even use that at home, much less the office. Other than net surfing on sites like this, I'm careful not to use my office computer for personal use. My work provided laptop is my main home computer, so I do whatever for it and maintain it myself. But I'm still careful not to do anythign that's likely to get viruses or spyware since I'm so dependent on it as I work at home so much.
Speaking of IT control, this university (or at least my college within it as this was college-level policy) was ridiculous about it in the past. We didn't have any administrator access on our office computers so we had to get the IT people to come up anytime we needed simple things done like installing new software. We raised a stink over that as they were slow as hell and we don't have time to wait a couple of days when we need some new stats software we bought (or downloaded if it's a free one) installed ASAP to run some stuff to get a grant proposal or article in before a deadline etc. So I think most people (if not all) in our department have administrator access now.
Honestly, if that hadn't got fixed I'd have been looking to move to a different job, and/or threatening to just come in for teaching/office hours/meetings and doing all my other work at home where I didn't have such hampering restrictions on my computer. I get the need for keeping the network secure and minimizing work station problems. But you can't do that at the expense of treating end users as incompetent idiots and making their work more difficult by blocking basic tasks like installing software.
As for torrents, I don't even use that at home, much less the office. Other than net surfing on sites like this, I'm careful not to use my office computer for personal use. My work provided laptop is my main home computer, so I do whatever for it and maintain it myself. But I'm still careful not to do anythign that's likely to get viruses or spyware since I'm so dependent on it as I work at home so much.
Speaking of IT control, this university (or at least my college within it as this was college-level policy) was ridiculous about it in the past. We didn't have any administrator access on our office computers so we had to get the IT people to come up anytime we needed simple things done like installing new software. We raised a stink over that as they were slow as hell and we don't have time to wait a couple of days when we need some new stats software we bought (or downloaded if it's a free one) installed ASAP to run some stuff to get a grant proposal or article in before a deadline etc. So I think most people (if not all) in our department have administrator access now.
Honestly, if that hadn't got fixed I'd have been looking to move to a different job, and/or threatening to just come in for teaching/office hours/meetings and doing all my other work at home where I didn't have such hampering restrictions on my computer. I get the need for keeping the network secure and minimizing work station problems. But you can't do that at the expense of treating end users as incompetent idiots and making their work more difficult by blocking basic tasks like installing software.
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[quote name='Clak']It depends, a lot of companies are simply outsourcing the simpler stuff like desktop support. Which means the jobs are at those outsourcing companies, and probably get paid less. Colleges on the other hand seem to keep everything on site. That may change eventually as old faculty retire, but I don't think it will be very common still. Most faculty seem to know just enough to use things like office and an internet browser, and that's about it. For anything else, or any problems that creep up they're going to need support staff. They also don't like to wait very long, and outsourcing stuff like that could take longer.[/quote]
That's true. It's just that there's an infinitely smaller number of positions available then.
Something that's happening a lot too is that just about anyone nowadays can B.S. their way through simple troubleshooting, whereas before people used to look at me like I knew the dark arts.
That's true. It's just that there's an infinitely smaller number of positions available then.
Something that's happening a lot too is that just about anyone nowadays can B.S. their way through simple troubleshooting, whereas before people used to look at me like I knew the dark arts.
Trancendental
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[quote name='cindersphere']What's cute? My opinion of IT? I honestly wasn't trying to be cute at all, and not really out of whack with American society IMO. Most IT are basically relegated to menial tasks, given little respect, and for the most part are not thought of as relatively important. [/QUOTE]
WAY too broad a statement to be making. I think even the biggest dunderheads understand that all of their cool gadgets are powered by hardware and software engineered by IT guys. Go to the next smartphone unveiling (or E3 if you like) and see how excited folks get.
While I appreciate his service, I'll never be able to drum up the same excitement for the guy who comes around at 2pm to empty my trashcan.
[quote name='cindersphere']If your serious in thinking of me as a communist, then I have to answer no. I really don't equate employment nor working with the highest virtues, a pre req in my opinion for being a communist. No, actually I guess if I am the closest ideology I would say I am more of a liberal egalitarian. Although I guess it depends on how you look at ideology, I mean if you wanted to you could try to say I was a market socialist, but I believe I am closer to liberal egalitarian.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, but even you have to understand that liberal egaltarianism is at best a fringe position in American politics. I could stand on a city street for half a day and not meet anyone with the same politics (well maybe the bums...)
WAY too broad a statement to be making. I think even the biggest dunderheads understand that all of their cool gadgets are powered by hardware and software engineered by IT guys. Go to the next smartphone unveiling (or E3 if you like) and see how excited folks get.
While I appreciate his service, I'll never be able to drum up the same excitement for the guy who comes around at 2pm to empty my trashcan.
[quote name='cindersphere']If your serious in thinking of me as a communist, then I have to answer no. I really don't equate employment nor working with the highest virtues, a pre req in my opinion for being a communist. No, actually I guess if I am the closest ideology I would say I am more of a liberal egalitarian. Although I guess it depends on how you look at ideology, I mean if you wanted to you could try to say I was a market socialist, but I believe I am closer to liberal egalitarian.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, but even you have to understand that liberal egaltarianism is at best a fringe position in American politics. I could stand on a city street for half a day and not meet anyone with the same politics (well maybe the bums...)
[quote name='camoor']WAY too broad a statement to be making. I think even the biggest dunderheads understand that all of their cool gadgets are powered by hardware and software engineered by IT guys. Go to the next smartphone unveiling (or E3 if you like) and see how excited folks get.
[/QUOTE]
I think the issue is when most people here IT they aren't thinking of the engineers designing new gadgets, or the programmers making new software etc.
IT=information technology so I mainly think of people who keep networks and databases running for businesses. And some how simple tech support has got lumped under the IT label--I guess in many places they are the same people (especially smaller companies).
With universities we have IT guess in each college that run the networks, keep the servers running etc. and deal with those type of big issues, and simple tech support people who just set up new computers, do trouble shooting etc.
The tech support people frustrate me as they're mostly students, many of who are less computer literate than me and end up taking longer to fix things than I do it myself. The IT people I have no issues with as I don't know the first thing about networks, servers, etc.--much less the large scale networks and databases they're maintaining every day.
Anyway, my rambling point is that younger, computer literate people don't have a lot of respect for tech support people these days and view the work as "menial" as it's mostly stuff they can fix on their own.
I think you'd find levels of respect higher for the true IT people who are maintaining big networks, and even more for the engineers designing new gadgets, creating new software etc.
[/QUOTE]
I think the issue is when most people here IT they aren't thinking of the engineers designing new gadgets, or the programmers making new software etc.
IT=information technology so I mainly think of people who keep networks and databases running for businesses. And some how simple tech support has got lumped under the IT label--I guess in many places they are the same people (especially smaller companies).
With universities we have IT guess in each college that run the networks, keep the servers running etc. and deal with those type of big issues, and simple tech support people who just set up new computers, do trouble shooting etc.
The tech support people frustrate me as they're mostly students, many of who are less computer literate than me and end up taking longer to fix things than I do it myself. The IT people I have no issues with as I don't know the first thing about networks, servers, etc.--much less the large scale networks and databases they're maintaining every day.
Anyway, my rambling point is that younger, computer literate people don't have a lot of respect for tech support people these days and view the work as "menial" as it's mostly stuff they can fix on their own.
I think you'd find levels of respect higher for the true IT people who are maintaining big networks, and even more for the engineers designing new gadgets, creating new software etc.
[quote name='dmaul1114']Oh yeah, IT position's won't go away as they have to have them in house to keep the network up and running and all that kind of stuff. They'll just cut back on things like the low-level people (mostly student assistants anyway) who do nothing but minor trouble shooting as they'll be less needed over time.
As for torrents, I don't even use that at home, much less the office. Other than net surfing on sites like this, I'm careful not to use my office computer for personal use. My work provided laptop is my main home computer, so I do whatever for it and maintain it myself. But I'm still careful not to do anythign that's likely to get viruses or spyware since I'm so dependent on it as I work at home so much.
Speaking of IT control, this university (or at least my college within it as this was college-level policy) was ridiculous about it in the past. We didn't have any administrator access on our office computers so we had to get the IT people to come up anytime we needed simple things done like installing new software. We raised a stink over that as they were slow as hell and we don't have time to wait a couple of days when we need some new stats software we bought (or downloaded if it's a free one) installed ASAP to run some stuff to get a grant proposal or article in before a deadline etc. So I think most people (if not all) in our department have administrator access now.
Honestly, if that hadn't got fixed I'd have been looking to move to a different job, and/or threatening to just come in for teaching/office hours/meetings and doing all my other work at home where I didn't have such hampering restrictions on my computer. I get the need for keeping the network secure and minimizing work station problems. But you can't do that at the expense of treating end users as incompetent idiots and making their work more difficult by blocking basic tasks like installing software.[/QUOTE]
Well in their defense, some of your co-workers probably shouldn't have admin access to their office system. I know it seems restrictive and all, and I wouldn't like it either, but man some people are just too dumb for their own good. We've got people here who I seriously don't think should have admin rights on their systems, they just don't know how to act responsibly with it. They'll change a setting, or install something they shouldn't have and then come crying to us to fix it, and expect it done in practically no time. I've seen this done both ways, giving them admin rights and not, and frankly I wish the school I'm at now didn't.
Now again, if the faculty were willing to take some sort of basic competency course that might be different, then they wouldn't have an excuse for doing anyhting stupid. Again though, I know they wouldn't want to.
As for torrents, I don't even use that at home, much less the office. Other than net surfing on sites like this, I'm careful not to use my office computer for personal use. My work provided laptop is my main home computer, so I do whatever for it and maintain it myself. But I'm still careful not to do anythign that's likely to get viruses or spyware since I'm so dependent on it as I work at home so much.
Speaking of IT control, this university (or at least my college within it as this was college-level policy) was ridiculous about it in the past. We didn't have any administrator access on our office computers so we had to get the IT people to come up anytime we needed simple things done like installing new software. We raised a stink over that as they were slow as hell and we don't have time to wait a couple of days when we need some new stats software we bought (or downloaded if it's a free one) installed ASAP to run some stuff to get a grant proposal or article in before a deadline etc. So I think most people (if not all) in our department have administrator access now.
Honestly, if that hadn't got fixed I'd have been looking to move to a different job, and/or threatening to just come in for teaching/office hours/meetings and doing all my other work at home where I didn't have such hampering restrictions on my computer. I get the need for keeping the network secure and minimizing work station problems. But you can't do that at the expense of treating end users as incompetent idiots and making their work more difficult by blocking basic tasks like installing software.[/QUOTE]
Well in their defense, some of your co-workers probably shouldn't have admin access to their office system. I know it seems restrictive and all, and I wouldn't like it either, but man some people are just too dumb for their own good. We've got people here who I seriously don't think should have admin rights on their systems, they just don't know how to act responsibly with it. They'll change a setting, or install something they shouldn't have and then come crying to us to fix it, and expect it done in practically no time. I've seen this done both ways, giving them admin rights and not, and frankly I wish the school I'm at now didn't.
Now again, if the faculty were willing to take some sort of basic competency course that might be different, then they wouldn't have an excuse for doing anyhting stupid. Again though, I know they wouldn't want to.
The IT field spans a wide swath of people. From network admins, system admins, desktop support, help desk support, database admins, it's a lot of people doing different things. Honestly what I do isn't all that complicated, at least by IT standards, but this place couldn't function without us.
Cindi is right in that IT staff are often under appreciated. The only time anyone gives a damn about us is when they need help. But that's kind of the curse really.
Cindi is right in that IT staff are often under appreciated. The only time anyone gives a damn about us is when they need help. But that's kind of the curse really.
[quote name='Clak']The IT field spans a wide swath of people. From network admins, system admins, desktop support, help desk support, database admins, it's a lot of people doing different things. Honestly what I do isn't all that complicated, at least by IT standards, but this place couldn't function without us.
Cindi is right in that IT staff are often under appreciated. The only time anyone gives a damn about us is when they need help. But that's kind of the curse really.[/QUOTE]
STFU and fix my printer now you desktop jockey.:lol:
Cindi is right in that IT staff are often under appreciated. The only time anyone gives a damn about us is when they need help. But that's kind of the curse really.[/QUOTE]
STFU and fix my printer now you desktop jockey.:lol:
Submit a work order.
Little side story. One professor here had her printer die, her own office printer. She didn't know there was a big Xerox copier/printer right outside her office and around the corner she could use. She was amazed when I showed her. How you can be there for years and not notice that is beyond me.
Little side story. One professor here had her printer die, her own office printer. She didn't know there was a big Xerox copier/printer right outside her office and around the corner she could use. She was amazed when I showed her. How you can be there for years and not notice that is beyond me.
cindersphere
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[quote name='camoor']WAY too broad a statement to be making. I think even the biggest dunderheads understand that all of their cool gadgets are powered by hardware and software engineered by IT guys. Go to the next smartphone unveiling (or E3 if you like) and see how excited folks get.
While I appreciate his service, I'll never be able to drum up the same excitement for the guy who comes around at 2pm to empty my trashcan.
Fair enough, but even you have to understand that liberal egaltarianism is at best a fringe position in American politics. I could stand on a city street for half a day and not meet anyone with the same politics (well maybe the bums...)[/QUOTE]
What I meant by IT dept was much more focused on the dude behind the counter at best buy, worker at printing room in colleges, and for the most part about 80% of the people in the computer departments that do nothing but check off someone's name when renting equipment or telling some dude over the phone to restart their computer. Generally these people are treated on the same level as janitors. I wasn't really attacking any of the people directly involved with the designing/manufacturing of a tech product.
On fringe positions, I do agree it is a fringe position but it is more my ideological fantasy. I generally show support for measures that are more popular and coincide with my view point, same as anyone else. It's the reasons for the most part I still vote Democrat, which is a fringe position where I am at. But honestly I am not very ideological in my personal life, going hungry for most of my childhood taught me to separate my personal politics/opinions from things that allow me to eat and get shelter.
While I appreciate his service, I'll never be able to drum up the same excitement for the guy who comes around at 2pm to empty my trashcan.
Fair enough, but even you have to understand that liberal egaltarianism is at best a fringe position in American politics. I could stand on a city street for half a day and not meet anyone with the same politics (well maybe the bums...)[/QUOTE]
What I meant by IT dept was much more focused on the dude behind the counter at best buy, worker at printing room in colleges, and for the most part about 80% of the people in the computer departments that do nothing but check off someone's name when renting equipment or telling some dude over the phone to restart their computer. Generally these people are treated on the same level as janitors. I wasn't really attacking any of the people directly involved with the designing/manufacturing of a tech product.
On fringe positions, I do agree it is a fringe position but it is more my ideological fantasy. I generally show support for measures that are more popular and coincide with my view point, same as anyone else. It's the reasons for the most part I still vote Democrat, which is a fringe position where I am at. But honestly I am not very ideological in my personal life, going hungry for most of my childhood taught me to separate my personal politics/opinions from things that allow me to eat and get shelter.
I'm pulling a half Javery in that I'm asking an off topic question in here instead of making a thread.
AT&T vs Sprint: Anyone have any input? I can either get an AT&T plan with a 2GB cap or a Sprint with unlimited data. Otherwise they are fairly equivalent situations. Anyone here use an iPhone and can tell me what their rough data usage is per month? I'm only considering the iPhone simply because I know it offers more support in the future, and I can get it super cheap.
Yeah I'm off topic, wanna fight about it? Uh, go Custodians, beat those...Dishwashers from Dishwasher Uni State. CLEAN THEIR PLATES, hur hur get it get it?
There, I'm on topic now, wanna fight about it?
AT&T vs Sprint: Anyone have any input? I can either get an AT&T plan with a 2GB cap or a Sprint with unlimited data. Otherwise they are fairly equivalent situations. Anyone here use an iPhone and can tell me what their rough data usage is per month? I'm only considering the iPhone simply because I know it offers more support in the future, and I can get it super cheap.
Yeah I'm off topic, wanna fight about it? Uh, go Custodians, beat those...Dishwashers from Dishwasher Uni State. CLEAN THEIR PLATES, hur hur get it get it?
There, I'm on topic now, wanna fight about it?
[quote name='Strell']I'm pulling a half Javery in that I'm asking an off topic question in here instead of making a thread.
AT&T vs Sprint: Anyone have any input? I can either get an AT&T plan with a 2GB cap or a Sprint with unlimited data. Otherwise they are fairly equivalent situations. Anyone here use an iPhone and can tell me what their rough data usage is per month? I'm only considering the iPhone simply because I know it offers more support in the future, and I can get it super cheap.
Yeah I'm off topic, wanna fight about it? Uh, go Custodians, beat those...Dishwashers from Dishwasher Uni State. CLEAN THEIR PLATES, hur hur get it get it?
There, I'm on topic now, wanna fight about it?[/QUOTE]
If you're in a major city, both are going to be pretty close to the same. Peak times will give you slow data speeds. I hit about 1gb a month, but that's only through email and a 2-3 hours web(all text and no media) a day. If you're cruising youtube or streaming music, 2gb will be reached Very quickly. If you're planning on tethering for "free", Sprint is your only option, otherwise, ATT will give it to you with a splintery baseball bat with sandpaper as lube. If you need customer service, they both suck, so pick your poison...LOLZ.
AT&T vs Sprint: Anyone have any input? I can either get an AT&T plan with a 2GB cap or a Sprint with unlimited data. Otherwise they are fairly equivalent situations. Anyone here use an iPhone and can tell me what their rough data usage is per month? I'm only considering the iPhone simply because I know it offers more support in the future, and I can get it super cheap.
Yeah I'm off topic, wanna fight about it? Uh, go Custodians, beat those...Dishwashers from Dishwasher Uni State. CLEAN THEIR PLATES, hur hur get it get it?
There, I'm on topic now, wanna fight about it?[/QUOTE]
If you're in a major city, both are going to be pretty close to the same. Peak times will give you slow data speeds. I hit about 1gb a month, but that's only through email and a 2-3 hours web(all text and no media) a day. If you're cruising youtube or streaming music, 2gb will be reached Very quickly. If you're planning on tethering for "free", Sprint is your only option, otherwise, ATT will give it to you with a splintery baseball bat with sandpaper as lube. If you need customer service, they both suck, so pick your poison...LOLZ.
Trancendental
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[quote name='Strell']I'm pulling a half Javery in that I'm asking an off topic question in here instead of making a thread.
AT&T vs Sprint: Anyone have any input? I can either get an AT&T plan with a 2GB cap or a Sprint with unlimited data. Otherwise they are fairly equivalent situations. Anyone here use an iPhone and can tell me what their rough data usage is per month? I'm only considering the iPhone simply because I know it offers more support in the future, and I can get it super cheap.
Yeah I'm off topic, wanna fight about it? Uh, go Custodians, beat those...Dishwashers from Dishwasher Uni State. CLEAN THEIR PLATES, hur hur get it get it?
There, I'm on topic now, wanna fight about it?[/QUOTE]Sprint and get an Android phone.
AT&T vs Sprint: Anyone have any input? I can either get an AT&T plan with a 2GB cap or a Sprint with unlimited data. Otherwise they are fairly equivalent situations. Anyone here use an iPhone and can tell me what their rough data usage is per month? I'm only considering the iPhone simply because I know it offers more support in the future, and I can get it super cheap.
Yeah I'm off topic, wanna fight about it? Uh, go Custodians, beat those...Dishwashers from Dishwasher Uni State. CLEAN THEIR PLATES, hur hur get it get it?
There, I'm on topic now, wanna fight about it?[/QUOTE]Sprint and get an Android phone.
[quote name='camoor']This thread needs more Nick Burns
http://www.hulu.com/watch/19050/saturday-night-live-nick-burns[/QUOTE]
I used to love those skits.:lol:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/19050/saturday-night-live-nick-burns[/QUOTE]
I used to love those skits.:lol:
[quote name='Clak']Well in their defense, some of your co-workers probably shouldn't have admin access to their office system. I know it seems restrictive and all, and I wouldn't like it either, but man some people are just too dumb for their own good. We've got people here who I seriously don't think should have admin rights on their systems, they just don't know how to act responsibly with it. They'll change a setting, or install something they shouldn't have and then come crying to us to fix it, and expect it done in practically no time. I've seen this done both ways, giving them admin rights and not, and frankly I wish the school I'm at now didn't.[/QUOTE]
Well the way it could be done, IMO, is to give everyone Admin access and take it away from people that have problems over time.
No doubt some people are better off not having it--especially older, faculty with lesser computer literacy on average. But it's silly to take it away from everyone when most people probably don't have an problems because of it--especially the younger faculty who've dealt with computers for 20+years.
In any case, it's a new question I'll ask during any future job interviews as it was a major annoyance not having admin access for a while and I don't want to work somewhere with that rule again.
Though I will say that there should be some less restrictive settings to protect most settings and allow things like installing software and usb devices (with drivers that have to install automatically) etc., as that kind of thing is the only thing that really bothered me about not having admin access.
Maybe there is and they just don't use it, which wouldn't surprise me at all as our IT department is pretty terrible in general. They had my computer for a month last summer trying to figure out some "virus" the network had detected. Their explanation was that it turned out to just be some signal the Lenovo computers they'd switched to just that year (and I was one of the first to get) was sending out on the network and not a virus at all. Also bearing in mind that the forced this switch to Lenovo computers from Dells that were used before.
Well the way it could be done, IMO, is to give everyone Admin access and take it away from people that have problems over time.
No doubt some people are better off not having it--especially older, faculty with lesser computer literacy on average. But it's silly to take it away from everyone when most people probably don't have an problems because of it--especially the younger faculty who've dealt with computers for 20+years.
In any case, it's a new question I'll ask during any future job interviews as it was a major annoyance not having admin access for a while and I don't want to work somewhere with that rule again.
Though I will say that there should be some less restrictive settings to protect most settings and allow things like installing software and usb devices (with drivers that have to install automatically) etc., as that kind of thing is the only thing that really bothered me about not having admin access.
Maybe there is and they just don't use it, which wouldn't surprise me at all as our IT department is pretty terrible in general. They had my computer for a month last summer trying to figure out some "virus" the network had detected. Their explanation was that it turned out to just be some signal the Lenovo computers they'd switched to just that year (and I was one of the first to get) was sending out on the network and not a virus at all. Also bearing in mind that the forced this switch to Lenovo computers from Dells that were used before.
No doubt. It could be minimized if there was a clear policy of admin rights being revoked because of repeated problems due to user error.
But anyway, that stuff is up to the college administrators and the IT folks to work out. Admin access (or at least the ability to install stuff etc.) is a must for me or I'll go work elsewhere.
But anyway, that stuff is up to the college administrators and the IT folks to work out. Admin access (or at least the ability to install stuff etc.) is a must for me or I'll go work elsewhere.
bread's done