I want 2D games, and I want them on the Playstation 3!

Who says that 2D games have to be made with sprites? You can make games that employ 2D gameplay but use 3D graphics engines. Contra: Shattered Soldier, anyone?

But I do love me those sprites.
 
Ok, I think for both 2D and 3D games there's a point where us humans won't be able to notice further graphical improvements. The difference is, we're going to reach that point faster for 2D games.
 
I agree. I'd love to see more 2D games on PS3, although I doubt it will happen. Actually, I'd like games in 2.5D, with impressive graphics, but on a 2D plane. The SIXAXIS controller doesn't have too bad of a d-pad.

But, I think they'll be plenty of 2D games on the e-distribution download service.

[quote name='Roufuss']Honestly, it wouldn't be hard to make a good 3D Castlevania, I thought Lament of Innocence had some awesome gameplay but was marred by drab environments which killed the game. Too many damn hallways, but the whip action was soooo nice, imo.

Curse of Darkness was like 10 steps backwards, imo.[/QUOTE]Other than the long halls (that kept repeating), I thought Castlevania: LoI was an excellent attempt to bring Castlevania in 3D (especially the whip action, since I enjoyed it a lot too. And that soundtrack was awesome too). But like you said, Curse of Darkness was a step backwards. I really wanted the game and hoped I"d like it, but I find myself going back to playing LoI instead.
 
Umm, why do people think 2d wouldn't touch 5 percent of the PS3's power?

Imagine any of your favorite 2d games [one of mine is Legend of Oasis]

With high resolution, 1080i display [meaning all sprites, objects, and backgrounds would have to be large resolution]

Full scrolling, animation, and movement effects [meaning all objects move in 24 fps, like real animation, at a high resolution]

2d and 3d high definition effects [smoke, water, fire, ice, wind, etc]

Now add in advanced AI for game play

Tons of event flags

Wrap it up with Dolby Digital or DTS, real multi channel music, surround sound effects, multiple language tracks, etc

Render all cut scenes as fluid HD hand drawn animation

and of course, make it so that everything loads on the fly.

Add in six axis or force feedback depending on the console

That would take quite a bit of the PS3's or 360's power, more than you think.

Think about when your PC loads a 6 megapixel photo...

now have that happen a thousand times on a screen in HD = )
 
[quote name='sarausagi']Umm, why do people think 2d wouldn't touch 5 percent of the PS3's power?

Imagine any of your favorite 2d games [one of mine is Legend of Oasis]

With high resolution, 1080i display [meaning all sprites, objects, and backgrounds would have to be large resolution]

Full scrolling, animation, and movement effects [meaning all objects move in 24 fps, like real animation, at a high resolution]

2d and 3d high definition effects [smoke, water, fire, ice, wind, etc]

Now add in advanced AI for game play

Tons of event flags

Wrap it up with Dolby Digital or DTS, real multi channel music, surround sound effects, multiple language tracks, etc

Render all cut scenes as fluid HD hand drawn animation

and of course, make it so that everything loads on the fly.

Add in six axis or force feedback depending on the console

That would take quite a bit of the PS3's or 360's power, more than you think.

Think about when your PC loads a 6 megapixel photo...

now have that happen a thousand times on a screen in HD = )[/QUOTE]

I would kill for something like that. And I never knew about Legend of Oasis. Beyond Oasis is one of my favorite games.
 
[quote name='Rusty Ghia']I would kill for something like that. And I never knew about Legend of Oasis. Beyond Oasis is one of my favorite games.[/QUOTE]

Legend of Oasis is the closest thing to that

Fully hand drawn fluid animation

Ambient sound [I think it's Dolby Pro Logic]

Huge levels, detailed textures, good special effects
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Yep, and that game would cost a shitload to make and won't even come close to ever breaking even.

So, keep dreaming.[/QUOTE]Hey, you never know. I don't think the "casual" gamer even has a conscious preference for 3-d. I think they just want the most awe-inspiring, jaw-droppingly realistic graphics out there. Call it "graphics whoring" or whatever you want.

Who's to say that a 2-d game couldn't grab some attention from the casuals, if it looked badass enough? The "graphics whore" could still salivate over the amazing 2-d game that sarausagi described, if that was the hot new thing. Contrary to common opinion, I doubt that these people are actually thinking "2D iz gay" just on principle.
 
My hope is kind of that we're past the DUDEZ ITZ THE 3DS!!!! Phase now, and that 2D might even look and play fresh to people.

I'd love to know if Sony really is anti-2D or not. They were CLEEEEEAR back in the very early days of the PS1, but I don't know now. I know they have some kind of weird rule about maybe older games having to be packaged with more than one game as part of the package (ie King of Fighters titles, Growlancer Generations), but I don't know if that's because they're 2D, or just because they're older games. Hopefully just the latter.

Heck, I will buy ANY system if it has a good 2D Metroid style game. That's my secret weakness. I would have bought an X-Box 1 for one, back years ago when I was boycotting it because it was Microsoft (alright, so I caved over Buffy instead :D )
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']look, this is a good example of what the PS3 should have, but can probably be even better:

http://www.limbogame.org/[/QUOTE]o crap! did u see that buzzsaw?!?!

the suspense is killing me!!

but the real question is...

did the buzzsaw kill him????
 
To the OP I think what you want is the Nihon Falcom remakes of the Y's games on the PC. They've been remade and look quite good. In fact when I first saw the preview video of it, especially the cutscenes, I thought the cutscenes looked like the BEST Anime I had EVER seen reswise. This was before I had seen HD mind you and I don't think HD was as widespread in the U.S. at the time.
Saying that, to the people saying PS2 can easily handle 2D I say bullshit. Have you seen the PC requirements for Y's 1 and 2? Either the PS2 could handle it, BARELY or just a little over, or it would have to downgrade some stuff to avoid slowdown and no I'm not joking. This game requires a decent amount of RAM, like 128-256 mb.
Unfortunately Nihon has decided to go 3D with their new Y's offerings though the 3D looks arcadelike which I like.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']To the OP I think what you want is the Nihon Falcom remakes of the Y's games on the PC. They've been remade and look quite good. In fact when I first saw the preview video of it, especially the cutscenes, I thought the cutscenes looked like the BEST Anime I had EVER seen reswise. This was before I had seen HD mind you and I don't think HD was as widespread in the U.S. at the time.
Saying that, to the people saying PS2 can easily handle 2D I say bullshit. Have you seen the PC requirements for Y's 1 and 2? Either the PS2 could handle it, BARELY or just a little over, or it would have to downgrade some stuff to avoid slowdown and no I'm not joking. This game requires a decent amount of RAM, like 128-256 mb.
Unfortunately Nihon has decided to go 3D with their new Y's offerings though the 3D looks arcadelike which I like.[/QUOTE]

I think lots of you who think even the PS2 can handle 2d flawlessly needs to look at all the great 2d fighters on it: most of them don't hold a candle to even SEGA SATURN versions, and even more simple stuff like the SEGA GENESIS COLLECTION isn't console perfect; I have a Genesis and the Genesis versions are so incredible compared to the originals it's not even funny [and that's with the PS2's advantage of component prog scan and optical out for audio] Another great example is some of the slow down on some DS lite games [Sonic Rush, Princess Peach, I'm looking at you] And the biggest example of them all, Sonic 2 slow down on a REAL Genesis.

Here's some nice ideas...

Sonic the Hedgehog anniversary you say? How about a 1080i, 60 FPS remake of Sonic 3? With twice as many sprites, all redrawn in glorious hi def, as many scrolling and particle effects as possible, billions of colors blazing by you at high speeds, the whole screen filled with super detailed sprites and absolutely lush high definition back grounds, then on top of that, add all the new mechanics from Sonic Advance and Rush, plus make the enemy AI a little tiny bit harder, and then on top of it all make the levels THREE times as big

There's so many ideas..a 2d Street Fighter that moves as fluidly as a big budget anime with huge multi tiered levels...an insanely animated high definition 2d Final Fantasy...an Ecco the Dolphin where it looks better than an actual photo of the ocean...
 
I know I may sound stupid saying tis, but I 100% believe this:

either after or during the next-next gen (Ie. Xbox 720/PS4) very nice looking 2d games will be coming along... by then there will be a larger demand for it.
 
Hope so! :)

Maybe some kind of tools will come along to make it easier to generate 2D art too (for some parts that aren't as important).
 
[quote name='sarausagi']I think lots of you who think even the PS2 can handle 2d flawlessly needs to look at all the great 2d fighters on it: most of them don't hold a candle to even SEGA SATURN versions, .[/QUOTE]

Um... what? I've played most of the PS2 fighters and they are arcade perfect, so I'm not sure where you've decided to pull this statement from.

The only one I can think of is MvC 2 was a bit worse than the DC version because Capcom did a half ass port. There are plenty of fighters that are superior to their Saturn / Dreamcast counterparts.
 
[quote name='RelentlessRolento']I know I may sound stupid saying tis, but I 100% believe this:

either after or during the next-next gen (Ie. Xbox 720/PS4) very nice looking 2d games will be coming along... by then there will be a larger demand for it.[/quote]I'm wondering the same things. Many things in life are cyclical. Games haven't been around along enough to know if this'll happen, but you can see it in fashion, music, etc.

Retro gaming being "in" had its glory day a few years back, it's still hanging on, but I think the cue to look at is the DS and PSP remakes / new games in 2D. I think, given the sucess many of those titles had, we may see things come full circle at some point. Not 8bit sprites and slowdown with 2 enemies on the screen, but a tiring of the FPS, 3D Adventure, and 3D platforming genres. There will be a longing for something "new," which more often than not, is actually something quite old in idea, if not in execution.
 
The thing I don't get is this "Amazing AI" some of you are talking about. In an FPS, AI is shown by the way the NPCs move around the environment, take cover, how good they are at aiming, etc.

What could they do in a 2D space? Other than ducking under a short wall placed right in front of it....

Of course there are things you can do with AI other than that, but the possibilities are endless when it comes to a 3D space. Same with what you as the character can do. Would Oblivion, with it's wide open world, be possible in 2D?
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Um... what? I've played most of the PS2 fighters and they are arcade perfect, so I'm not sure where you've decided to pull this statement from.

The only one I can think of is MvC 2 was a bit worse than the DC version because Capcom did a half ass port. There are plenty of fighters that are superior to their Saturn / Dreamcast counterparts.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking of MVC2 exactly: also was thinking about the Metal Slug compilation, and Capcom VS SNK 2. However, SFA Anthology and KOF 02/03 is perfect..especially SFA [like millisecond loading times] and KOF looks REALLY good on my TV
 
You guys are missing out on what the most important thing for 2d is.

Ram...memory...

This allows more fluid animation at higher resolution. Guilty Gear shows this. Now Street Fighter 3 animation with guilty gear higher resolution needs more memory.

BTW: Saturn with ram add on equalled arcade perfect! Marvel Superheroes vs Street Fighter, Darkstalkers 3, Dungeons and Dragons Collection, and more.

King of Fighters never even used the 4mb memory ad on for the Saturn. It only needed the 1mb memory ad on. King of Fighters hasn't really evolved since then.

The reason whey Marvel vs Capcom 2 didn't work is because the ram issue. It had more going on screen at any point of time then Capcom vs SNK.
 
Yeah, there's a HUUUUGE difference between 512MB and 40MB...and I think I said this earlier, but the texture compression on the GPU might be able to get used for 2D to help even more, or running decompression code on an SPE or something like that. The 512MB is worth even more per MB probably than the PS2's 38MB.
 
[quote name='SpreadTheWord']The thing I don't get is this "Amazing AI" some of you are talking about. In an FPS, AI is shown by the way the NPCs move around the environment, take cover, how good they are at aiming, etc.

What could they do in a 2D space? Other than ducking under a short wall placed right in front of it....

Of course there are things you can do with AI other than that, but the possibilities are endless when it comes to a 3D space. Same with what you as the character can do. Would Oblivion, with it's wide open world, be possible in 2D?[/QUOTE]2D games never focus on AI or whatever is going around in the background,

they focus on the abilities of the unit you are controlling as well as core gameplay.

in a game like battletoads, you were chased by that damn sphere thing!

so to beat if you had to precisely push the direction you were heading in,

which was limited to only up down left or rite.

in a 3d game, the camera becomes an issue and you could not make a game like this.
 
[quote name='JEKKI']2D games never focus on AI or whatever is going around in the background,

they focus on the abilities of the unit you are controlling as well as core gameplay.

in a game like battletoads, you were chased by that damn sphere thing!

so to beat if you had to precisely push the direction you were heading in,

which was limited to only up down left or rite.

in a 3d game, the camera becomes an issue and you could not make a game like this.[/QUOTE]

Well..AI makes sense even in 2d games. For example, 2d fighters could take advantage of processing power to run AI's based on the player's skill [recording your moves, analyzing your play style] and also to emulate the play styles of high level play and tournament players. Or in a platforming game, I remember sometimes I'd stand below a ledge and jump up a little to shoot, an easy way to get through. A more advanced AI could have the enemy detect your approach, and actually come towards you not letting you sneak up on it so easily. Or in a game like Sonic or Mario, enemies could run from you, or dodge your jump or roll [spin dash into a robot, the robot jumps up or fires a laser]
 
[quote name='sarausagi']Well..AI makes sense even in 2d games. For example, 2d fighters could take advantage of processing power to run AI's based on the player's skill [recording your moves, analyzing your play style] and also to emulate the play styles of high level play and tournament players. Or in a platforming game, I remember sometimes I'd stand below a ledge and jump up a little to shoot, an easy way to get through. A more advanced AI could have the enemy detect your approach, and actually come towards you not letting you sneak up on it so easily. Or in a game like Sonic or Mario, enemies could run from you, or dodge your jump or roll [spin dash into a robot, the robot jumps up or fires a laser][/QUOTE]

Good points.

You could also run motive based stuff for RPG characters like in Oblivion in a 2D game just as much as in 3D.

Though I'm with Wombat where a lot of times I *LIKE* dumb, predictable A.I. Stuff becomes a really different game with good A.I., and not ALWAYS for the better.
 
Seriously though Wolf what I said stands. I think you should buy a PC to get Y's 1 and 2 remakes. There's even an English patch for it plus there are games like "Cave Story" around which are quite good 2D platformers though not the most technically demanding.
Where does everyone think Melty Blood came from? The Watanabe group and just ONE of the people in that group developed "Cave Story".
edit: Oh and to the person commenting on the FPS fad dying out I REALLY hope that happens. I think typical FPS's are like typical RPG's except with WORSE plots!
 
One major stumbling block I think you guys are leaving out, schools are mostly 3d these days, not so many 2d animators out there. I mean they exist but theres far more supply of 3d animators available.
 
How can you guys talk 2d without bringing up Treasure???? Astro boy for the GBA is so many times better than the 3d home console version. Show any person the two games side by side and I'm almost sure the majority will pick the GBA version.

Or how about gunstar?

Viewtiful Joe was an awesome 2d/3d hybrid so there is some hope, but then again Clover studios was disbanded.
 
[quote name='jngx80']How can you guys talk 2d without bringing up Treasure???? Astro boy for the GBA is so many times better than the 3d home console version. Show any person the two games side by side and I'm almost sure the majority will pick the GBA version.

Or how about gunstar?

Viewtiful Joe was an awesome 2d/3d hybrid so there is some hope, but then again Clover studios was disbanded.[/QUOTE]

I loved Astro Boy too, and I've been really thankful that the GBA has had so much 2D stuff (it's why I've bought more GBA games this past generation than probably anything else).

But I was really wanting some real support on the big consoles too. Partially because I just want more 2D stuff, and partially because I'm drooling over what the Playstation 3 could do in 2D. It could be drop dead gorgeous.
 
sarausagi>>> first of all, even the best AI could NEVER emulate a high skill fighter.

in terms of a 2d fighter, the best they can do is use a frame advantage and counter on things you did just one single frame ahead. However, playing humans is just totally different as AI can only comprehend certain offensive and defensive playstyles, but not mind games.

as far as AI in platformers, that's dumb. I'm playing castlevania, I don't want my enemies to adapt to my playstyle. The fact that they're put into a specific location, and attack in their own specific way is the best way to challenge the player. What matters is the fact that you can switch out your weapon, change characters, throw subweapons, double jump, etc. Again it's all about how you control your character, not enemy intelligence.

jngx80>>> u kno what makes treasure a great example of how great 2d gaming is??

the fact that their 3d games suck balls!

Wario World was horrible, and I hear the same about stretch panic as well...
 
[quote name='JEKKI']...
Wario World was horrible, and I hear the same about stretch panic as well...[/QUOTE]

Stretch Panic was MUCH worse than Wario World IMO. Wario World put me to sleep, but didn't make me want to actively destroy the disc :D

Regrading AI, what you said also applies to 3D games too. Some games really great A.I. can be fun, but they're VERY different from having fairly stupid A.I., which can often be quite fun.
 
I would do so much for more SNES style games. Super Mario World and Link to the Past are (IMO) the best of the Mario and Zelda series.*gets shot for not saying OoT is best*

I think Wii's VC is the best hope for new 2D games. With the VC, the only cost is development. With other games, you have to pay for
so much more, but with the VC, there is minimal loss, allowing for higher risks.

New Super Mario Bros. was so un-difficult, why can't they just make new levels with the same old graphics? I liked SMW's graphics better than Mario 64 or any other Mario game.
People(at least I am:p) are starting to realize that for a while, 2D games are going to look better than 3D games, especially with PS3 and 360 slipping into Uncanny_Valley.
My $0.0212 (6% sales tax on 2 cents;))
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Uh, what new MotW game??[/quote]
I'm pretty sure who ever posted that was misinformed. There is supposedly a MOTW movie in the works, not a game. You could sift through this if you'd like.

[quote name='Qslugs']One major stumbling block I think you guys are leaving out, schools are mostly 3d these days, not so many 2d animators out there. I mean they exist but theres far more supply of 3d animators available.[/quote]
You are the winner.
 
You are the winner.
Click to expand...

Indeed, wanting something doesn't make it so.

either after or during the next-next gen (Ie. Xbox 720/PS4) very nice looking 2d games will be coming along... by then there will be a larger demand for it.
Click to expand...

I agree, just not as soon. I think 2D will be the next 3D a long time from now.
 
[quote name='Doomed']I would do so much for more SNES style games. Super Mario World and Link to the Past are (IMO) the best of the Mario and Zelda series.*gets shot for not saying OoT is best*

I think Wii's VC is the best hope for new 2D games. With the VC, the only cost is development. With other games, you have to pay for
so much more, but with the VC, there is minimal loss, allowing for higher risks.

New Super Mario Bros. was so un-difficult, why can't they just make new levels with the same old graphics? I liked SMW's graphics better than Mario 64 or any other Mario game.
People(at least I am:p) are starting to realize that for a while, 2D games are going to look better than 3D games, especially with PS3 and 360 slipping into Uncanny_Valley.
My $0.0212 (6% sales tax on 2 cents;))[/QUOTE]

Ummm yeah.

http://www.falcom.co.jp/yso/gallery.html

Pay attention, they're called Nihon Falcom and they create NEW 2D games for the PC, COUGHXanaduNextCOUGH. Remember "Faxanadu" and "Y's"?
 
[quote name='Circa2113']I'm pretty sure who ever posted that was misinformed. There is supposedly a MOTW movie in the works, not a game. You could sift through this if you'd like.


You are the winner.[/QUOTE]

Nope, there actually is a new MoTW game in the works. I'm hoping it uses high rez sprites like KOF XII is supposed to.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Nope, there actually is a new MoTW game in the works. I'm hoping it uses high rez sprites like KOF XII is supposed to.[/quote]

Where have I been? Link please.:)

If it is really coming out (which I highly doubt), something tells me it's just going to be another shoddy playmore release ruining yet another perfectly good franchise...
 
[quote name='Roufuss']
I mean, 360 has been out in the US for a year now, I can't think of one 2-D retail release game for it or one that is coming out soon.[/quote]

The Slypheed sequel will be out soon.
 
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