[quote name='camoor']Invented... or utilized. Early religion was also likely an attempt at science - IE look at those lightning bolts coming down - it must be because a god is angry.[/QUOTE]
That's funny, you just reiterated Troy's point about control. The priests in those ancient religions knew more of the 'science' than they let on. And they used their knowledge to take advantage of the ignorant who thought god was mad at them. The funnier thing is that those who claim to speak for god are still telling people god is mad at them for not doing what they want (e.g., Pat Robertson). The sickening thing is that people still believe him.
[quote name='camoor']bmulligan - we have overcome our personal bodily gravity with the power of thought - the Wright Brothers dreamed up a flying device and I guarantee that the design used equal parts of practical imagination and engineering know-how. They literally transformed the world with an idea - an idea followed up with alot of hard work and elbow grease but an idea none-the-less. If someone wishes to believe that this idea was just a bunch of organized neurons firing in a specific way in the brain of an advanced primate then that's their prerogative, but I feel that it doesn't explain or communicate what the average human understands as an "idea". And since science is ultimately empirical, I have other theories about a shadow world of ideas, theories that I'm willing to abandon if someone proves to me that they are not the best explanation of the way the universe works[/QUOTE]
I don't think you understood my point - gravity exists. No matter what ideas you come up with, gravity will still exist, independent of what you are thinking or believe or what ideas you have in your head. The Wright brothers weren't Peter Pan, they tried lots of 'ideas' before they found one that worked to acomplish their objective. They didn't wish it into existence, did not perform a miracle, did not mute a physical law of nature. They used the rules as they exist and applied them in different configurations to solve a problem My point was, as someone else has said, "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed."
I understand your concept of a 'shadow world of ideas' in a Platonic sense. This exists only in your mind. It has no basis or tangibility in the real world and cannot be duplicated in someone elses mind for corroboration. It does not exist, it is 'imaginary'. Yes, there are immeasurable resources in the imagination, but they cannot control anything outside of your self, and certainally cannot nullify the force of two opposing magnets, or the force of an electron from it's innermost orbit, yet.
That's funny, you just reiterated Troy's point about control. The priests in those ancient religions knew more of the 'science' than they let on. And they used their knowledge to take advantage of the ignorant who thought god was mad at them. The funnier thing is that those who claim to speak for god are still telling people god is mad at them for not doing what they want (e.g., Pat Robertson). The sickening thing is that people still believe him.
[quote name='camoor']bmulligan - we have overcome our personal bodily gravity with the power of thought - the Wright Brothers dreamed up a flying device and I guarantee that the design used equal parts of practical imagination and engineering know-how. They literally transformed the world with an idea - an idea followed up with alot of hard work and elbow grease but an idea none-the-less. If someone wishes to believe that this idea was just a bunch of organized neurons firing in a specific way in the brain of an advanced primate then that's their prerogative, but I feel that it doesn't explain or communicate what the average human understands as an "idea". And since science is ultimately empirical, I have other theories about a shadow world of ideas, theories that I'm willing to abandon if someone proves to me that they are not the best explanation of the way the universe works[/QUOTE]
I don't think you understood my point - gravity exists. No matter what ideas you come up with, gravity will still exist, independent of what you are thinking or believe or what ideas you have in your head. The Wright brothers weren't Peter Pan, they tried lots of 'ideas' before they found one that worked to acomplish their objective. They didn't wish it into existence, did not perform a miracle, did not mute a physical law of nature. They used the rules as they exist and applied them in different configurations to solve a problem My point was, as someone else has said, "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed."
I understand your concept of a 'shadow world of ideas' in a Platonic sense. This exists only in your mind. It has no basis or tangibility in the real world and cannot be duplicated in someone elses mind for corroboration. It does not exist, it is 'imaginary'. Yes, there are immeasurable resources in the imagination, but they cannot control anything outside of your self, and certainally cannot nullify the force of two opposing magnets, or the force of an electron from it's innermost orbit, yet.