Trancendental
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[quote name='Quillion']Good job at quoting "Fishers of Men" out of context. Jesus was asking the fishermen to preach.[/quote]
It's called a joke.
It's called a joke.
If God existed, can he be the nicest being?
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Trancendental
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[quote name='Riyonuk']I also just found out about the anti-christ that will someday walk the land...man that sounds so cool.[/quote]
Christian mythology has it's literary qualities; I like how Satan is the ruler of the material world (the one that obeys the natural laws of science) and Jesus is the ruler of a magical paradise that every follower of god goes to when they die, where these followers are rewarded by the chance to reunite with dead loved ones, angel wings, icecream, virgins, and whatever else they want.
Which one is the lord of illusion again?
Christian mythology has it's literary qualities; I like how Satan is the ruler of the material world (the one that obeys the natural laws of science) and Jesus is the ruler of a magical paradise that every follower of god goes to when they die, where these followers are rewarded by the chance to reunite with dead loved ones, angel wings, icecream, virgins, and whatever else they want.
Which one is the lord of illusion again?
Duo_Maxwell
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[quote name='seanr1221']Well autism is a spectrum disorder, so it can range from severe autism to very mild (asperger's). My sister has what is called PDD, which is a mild form of autism, however not as mild as aspergers. She has speach delays and trouble putting together sentences, so I think they asked my mom to make a list of sins my sister committed and the priest read them to her and then absolved her. Yea you know what the sins were like? "I went into my brothers room and took his markers without asking."
It made me so angry they made her get confession...was it so wrong for my mom to want my sister to get communion? Of course not. She wants my sister to have SOME normalcy in her life.[/QUOTE]
Wait... was it her first communion? As in she haven't recieved that sacrament before?
Because if it was everyone is supposed to recieve the sacrament of reconciliation (i.e. confession) before they recieve communion for the first time. Actually I think it's still technically a part of catholic canon that you're supposed to have confession before taking any communion, first or not. Though I don't believe most churches (if any really) adhere to that law anymore. It's sort of built into the mass, asking for forgiveness that is, (called the Penitential Rite IIRC), but it could be possible they still practice the older laws (for some odd reason).
It made me so angry they made her get confession...was it so wrong for my mom to want my sister to get communion? Of course not. She wants my sister to have SOME normalcy in her life.[/QUOTE]
Wait... was it her first communion? As in she haven't recieved that sacrament before?
Because if it was everyone is supposed to recieve the sacrament of reconciliation (i.e. confession) before they recieve communion for the first time. Actually I think it's still technically a part of catholic canon that you're supposed to have confession before taking any communion, first or not. Though I don't believe most churches (if any really) adhere to that law anymore. It's sort of built into the mass, asking for forgiveness that is, (called the Penitential Rite IIRC), but it could be possible they still practice the older laws (for some odd reason).
D
Dick Tracy
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[quote name='camoor']Christian mythology has it's literary qualities; I like how Satan is the ruler of the material world (the one that obeys the natural laws of science) and Jesus is the ruler of a magical paradise that every follower of god goes to when they die, where these followers are rewarded by the chance to reunite with dead loved ones, angel wings, icecream, virgins, and whatever else they want.
Which one is the lord of illusion again?[/QUOTE]
If you choose to misinterpret "material", sure.
Which one is the lord of illusion again?[/QUOTE]
If you choose to misinterpret "material", sure.
Trancendental
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[quote name='Brak']If you choose to misinterpret "material", sure.[/quote]
I think you make a fair point, however I'm afraid this conversation is headed for a dead-end because I just don't interpret the books chosen for the OT bible literally, which is the direction this coversation would eventually turn.
I think you make a fair point, however I'm afraid this conversation is headed for a dead-end because I just don't interpret the books chosen for the OT bible literally, which is the direction this coversation would eventually turn.
If God can make such a heavy mountain, God can't lift it. This means there is something God cannot do. But if God can't make such a heavy mountain, then that is also something God cannot do. If God makes a mountain, and then can lift it, then it didn't make the mountain heavy enough, and perhaps God cannot make it heavier. So, can a god do everything? Is there a limit to what gods can do, too?
elprincipe
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[quote name='joevan']If God can make such a heavy mountain, God can't lift it. This means there is something God cannot do. But if God can't make such a heavy mountain, then that is also something God cannot do. If God makes a mountain, and then can lift it, then it didn't make the mountain heavy enough, and perhaps God cannot make it heavier. So, can a god do everything? Is there a limit to what gods can do, too?[/QUOTE]
Is this what they teach you kids in 8th grade nowadays?
Is this what they teach you kids in 8th grade nowadays?
NesHavok
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[quote name='joevan']If God can make such a heavy mountain, God can't lift it. This means there is something God cannot do. But if God can't make such a heavy mountain, then that is also something God cannot do. If God makes a mountain, and then can lift it, then it didn't make the mountain heavy enough, and perhaps God cannot make it heavier. So, can a god do everything? Is there a limit to what gods can do, too?[/quote]
thats something people say to be sarcastic of religion, even evolution and any religion other than christianity can be treated the same way.. But did you know that all of the prophecies in the bibleexcept for a few have been proven true.... the rest will come true in time
thats something people say to be sarcastic of religion, even evolution and any religion other than christianity can be treated the same way.. But did you know that all of the prophecies in the bibleexcept for a few have been proven true.... the rest will come true in time
NesHavok
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[quote name='camoor']Christian mythology has it's literary qualities; I like how Satan is the ruler of the material world (the one that obeys the natural laws of science) and Jesus is the ruler of a magical paradise that every follower of god goes to when they die, where these followers are rewarded by the chance to reunite with dead loved ones, angel wings, icecream, virgins, and whatever else they want.
Which one is the lord of illusion again?[/quote] actually in heaven there are no virgins cause everyone is in a different form where there are no penis or poons, excuse my french...
Which one is the lord of illusion again?[/quote] actually in heaven there are no virgins cause everyone is in a different form where there are no penis or poons, excuse my french...
[quote name='NesHavok']think about this..... If you were God and you made humans, and overtime humans didnt respect you, and they didnt believe in you would you let all of theminto heaven? I think not...[/quote]
Isn't that a human, vengeful thought pattern? Shouldn't God be above petty human traits? Afterall, all-loving would mean God loved all, not just those that believed in him/her/it/whatever.
[quote name='NesHavok']actually in heaven there are no virgins cause everyone is in a different form where there are no penis or poons, excuse my french...[/quote]
You're seriously 24? Excuse my french for saying penis/poons?
Anyway, can you cite that verse from the bible?
Isn't that a human, vengeful thought pattern? Shouldn't God be above petty human traits? Afterall, all-loving would mean God loved all, not just those that believed in him/her/it/whatever.
[quote name='NesHavok']actually in heaven there are no virgins cause everyone is in a different form where there are no penis or poons, excuse my french...[/quote]
You're seriously 24? Excuse my french for saying penis/poons?
Anyway, can you cite that verse from the bible?
?
Trancendental
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[quote name='elprincipe']Is this what they teach you kids in 8th grade nowadays?[/quote]
Better to teach logic then creationism.
Better to teach logic then creationism.
Trancendental
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[quote name='NesHavok']actually in heaven there are no virgins cause everyone is in a different form where there are no penis or poons, excuse my french...[/quote]
No poons - Oh Noes!!
No poons - Oh Noes!!
mykevermin
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[quote name='NesHavok']actually in heaven there are no virgins cause everyone is in a different form where there are no penis or poons, excuse my french...[/QUOTE]
Such language will *NOT* be tolerated!
BACK TO THE HOUSE OF PAIN!
BACK TO THE HOUSE OF PAIN!
BACK TO THE HOUSE OF PAIN!
Such language will *NOT* be tolerated!
BACK TO THE HOUSE OF PAIN!
BACK TO THE HOUSE OF PAIN!
BACK TO THE HOUSE OF PAIN!
[quote name='NesHavok']think about this..... If you were God and you made humans, and overtime humans didnt respect you, and they didnt believe in you would you let all of theminto heaven? I think not...[/quote] God should not care for the respect humans give to him more than the respect humans give to each other and the earth. And you know 3/4 of the world doesnt give a shit about one another. That would also include me because there are many things i do not have respect for.. bums (can i have a dollar).
And there are things that "God" cannot do. Is that so hard to believe? If God knew if you are a good or bad person, why dont he let you go to heaven b4 you die? So he cannot predict the future. If God knew who respect him, then why did he ask that dude (forgive me for not remembering) to kill his child. So God can not read a man's heart.
If God is real, he is a creator just like humans. He created us, as humans create their own children. He would not know how they will turn out.
Do you still have your dingy if you go to hell? I do not believe I will lose my wewe if i do go to heaven. I can always ask God to revert me back to my original form though right
And there are things that "God" cannot do. Is that so hard to believe? If God knew if you are a good or bad person, why dont he let you go to heaven b4 you die? So he cannot predict the future. If God knew who respect him, then why did he ask that dude (forgive me for not remembering) to kill his child. So God can not read a man's heart.
If God is real, he is a creator just like humans. He created us, as humans create their own children. He would not know how they will turn out.
Do you still have your dingy if you go to hell? I do not believe I will lose my wewe if i do go to heaven. I can always ask God to revert me back to my original form though right
[quote name='xeverex18']So i was just thinking that even though i am not religios, i thought it was pretty fuccked up that God would only let people who are religous go on to heaven. If God only wanted people who worshipped him to live with him then I wouldnt want to go to that heaven anyways. Would someone so righteous really make humans just to serve him? Sounds like a jew to me.
Sarcasm but also some real thoughts added.[/QUOTE]
Look, kid.
When I make up a story, I get to decide how the characters in my story behave. When you make up your own invisible monster, you decide on its superpowers and attitude or whatnot.
There's plenty of religions where signing up before dying (or even dying before the religion was founded) isn't the deciding factor; some don't even have heaven or hell.
What's scary to me is that you're probably from a christian background - and you act like it's either that or nothing - you don't even seem aware of anything else out there (and hey, if nothing tickles your fancy, roll your own!).
I've read just your post, none of the replies yet, so sorry if I'm being mr. redundancy man.
And just for fun:
http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/
http://www.infidels.org/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Sarcasm but also some real thoughts added.[/QUOTE]
Look, kid.
When I make up a story, I get to decide how the characters in my story behave. When you make up your own invisible monster, you decide on its superpowers and attitude or whatnot.
There's plenty of religions where signing up before dying (or even dying before the religion was founded) isn't the deciding factor; some don't even have heaven or hell.
What's scary to me is that you're probably from a christian background - and you act like it's either that or nothing - you don't even seem aware of anything else out there (and hey, if nothing tickles your fancy, roll your own!).
I've read just your post, none of the replies yet, so sorry if I'm being mr. redundancy man.
And just for fun:
http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/
http://www.infidels.org/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
[quote name='Skelah']how come christians dont get that the way they see scientology and cults is how we who arnt christians see christianity? its pretty silly and when someone trys to get into a deep converstation with me about there faith I pitty them .[/QUOTE]
Scientology is a well oiled money machine with no redeeming qualities; the "church" part was added to avoid paying taxes. Practically all real religions mean well (or used to, at some point) and have actual upsides.
Scientology is a well oiled money machine with no redeeming qualities; the "church" part was added to avoid paying taxes. Practically all real religions mean well (or used to, at some point) and have actual upsides.
[quote name='Full_Throttle']Well, I think God does not exist. Whatsoever. I have disproven her existence using 4 different forms of logic, and I could probably come up with more if I really tried.[/QUOTE]
You haven't.
Religion evolved over the years; while many of the early religions could be disproved (break the idol, climb to the top of mount Olympus, etc) the current ones are fashioned in a way that makes them impossible to contradict.
Of course, it's very easy to come up with this kind of stuff that can't be proven or disproven. It doesn't make it true.
You haven't.
Religion evolved over the years; while many of the early religions could be disproved (break the idol, climb to the top of mount Olympus, etc) the current ones are fashioned in a way that makes them impossible to contradict.
Of course, it's very easy to come up with this kind of stuff that can't be proven or disproven. It doesn't make it true.
[quote name='Riyonuk']WTH!? seanr1221 , we cannot shave? If thats true then I consider that unfair due to the fact that teachers at my school force me to shave. So am I like going to be smited one day walking home from gamestop?[/QUOTE]
Leviticus sez:
19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
Straight from the horses mouth. No shaving, and probably no tattoos.
Leviticus 20 tells us to kill the gays, witches, adulterers, those who give their seed to the ammonites, and people who cuss their parents.
Leviticus sez:
19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
Straight from the horses mouth. No shaving, and probably no tattoos.
Leviticus 20 tells us to kill the gays, witches, adulterers, those who give their seed to the ammonites, and people who cuss their parents.
D
Dick Tracy
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I think one thing the Bible proves is that man can ruin a good thing.
Man's more-than-apparent editing of the Bible, throughout the ages, is pretty funny... but I don't think it's proper enough evidence to disprove God, or to make God look cruel -- which people use quite often, in regards to cruelty.
Isn't it a little on the contradictory side to disprove God because, in some instances, he's cruel in the Bible?
Man's more-than-apparent editing of the Bible, throughout the ages, is pretty funny... but I don't think it's proper enough evidence to disprove God, or to make God look cruel -- which people use quite often, in regards to cruelty.
Isn't it a little on the contradictory side to disprove God because, in some instances, he's cruel in the Bible?
CorporalJackson
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Let me ask you this how can someone go to heaven if they don't believe that God is real? It's like if you say that I'm not real and then expect me to let you in my house when you have killed someone. It makes no sense that you even can think this way. But, you will just argue this most likely but no matter you will find out someday. I fell sorry for any of you going to hell wish I could change your minds still Jesus loves you even if you don't believe in him
Also about all these cracks about churches scamming ppl into "donating". You obviously don't give a tithe and have never attended a real Born again church. 75% of my Church's money head strait to other country to help ppl and to missionaries. You are just to ignorant to actually look into any real truths Jesus loves you
still Jesus loves you even if you don't believe in him Also about all these cracks about churches scamming ppl into "donating". You obviously don't give a tithe and have never attended a real Born again church. 75% of my Church's money head strait to other country to help ppl and to missionaries. You are just to ignorant to actually look into any real truths
Jesus loves you
Trancendental
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[quote name='CorporalJackson']Let me ask you this how can someone go to heaven if they don't believe that God is real? It's like if you say that I'm not real and then expect me to let you in my house when you have killed someone. [/quote]
Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what it's like.
Now go read your New Testament and leave the grown-ups alone.
Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what it's like.
Now go read your New Testament and leave the grown-ups alone.
CorporalJackson
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[quote name='camoor']Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what it's like.
Now go read your New Testament and leave the grown-ups alone.[/quote]
this was an example said at a bible school and well I kinda changed the words and the instance and well... I messed it up sorry. I do know what I'm talking about though I have completed ISOM and am attending rheum bible training school. I just don't know how to argue this kinda stuff to well yet that some of what I'm learning sorry if I miss represented anything its hard to deal with ppl on "there" lvl hehehe
and I'm not religious at all I am just striving to be like Jesus like EVERYONE should. I am a tongues speaking believer that Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross for our sins and was raised 3 days latter and that he is the son of God just like the Bible says which means I'm saved
P.S. I have read the New testament
Now go read your New Testament and leave the grown-ups alone.[/quote]
this was an example said at a bible school and well I kinda changed the words and the instance and well... I messed it up sorry. I do know what I'm talking about though I have completed ISOM and am attending rheum bible training school. I just don't know how to argue this kinda stuff to well yet that some of what I'm learning sorry if I miss represented anything its hard to deal with ppl on "there" lvl hehehe
and I'm not religious at all I am just striving to be like Jesus like EVERYONE should. I am a tongues speaking believer that Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross for our sins and was raised 3 days latter and that he is the son of God just like the Bible says which means I'm saved
P.S. I have read the New testament
CorporalJackson
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also just for people info the bible has been proven to be one of the most accurate historical books. As in locations, dates and, cities proven by other types of books diaries former rulers and just going to site of ruined cities like Sodom and Gomorrah. A group of scientists went to the site trying to disprove the bible and found lard abouts of tar and such.
[quote name='CorporalJackson']also just for people info the bible has been proven to be one of the most accurate historical books. As in locations, dates and, cities proven by other types of books diaries former rulers and just going to site of ruined cities like Sodom and Gomorrah. A group of scientists went to the site trying to disprove the bible and found lard abouts of tar and such.[/quote]
I think you're trying to say large amounts of tar and such. I didn't realize that tar wasn't a naturally occuring phenomenon. Did they find a pillar of salt too?
Nobody knows the actual location of Sodom and Gomorrah, since the names for the two cities were given after the destruction. Sodom is hebrew for "Burnt" and Gomorrah is hebrew for "A Ruined Heap".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah
Maybe if you learned some actual history, you might discover that as a historical text the Bible is rather lacking.
I think you're trying to say large amounts of tar and such. I didn't realize that tar wasn't a naturally occuring phenomenon. Did they find a pillar of salt too?
Nobody knows the actual location of Sodom and Gomorrah, since the names for the two cities were given after the destruction. Sodom is hebrew for "Burnt" and Gomorrah is hebrew for "A Ruined Heap".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah
Maybe if you learned some actual history, you might discover that as a historical text the Bible is rather lacking.
Trancendental
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[quote name='Brak']I think one thing the Bible proves is that man can ruin a good thing.
Man's more-than-apparent editing of the Bible, throughout the ages, is pretty funny... but I don't think it's proper enough evidence to disprove God, or to make God look cruel -- which people use quite often, in regards to cruelty.
Isn't it a little on the contradictory side to disprove God because, in some instances, he's cruel in the Bible?[/quote]
What was the good thing? The only time the Christian God is not cruel is when that petulant tyrant gets his way.
And before you point at the Jebus, take a look at this little snippet on family values:
Mission accomplished.
Man's more-than-apparent editing of the Bible, throughout the ages, is pretty funny... but I don't think it's proper enough evidence to disprove God, or to make God look cruel -- which people use quite often, in regards to cruelty.
Isn't it a little on the contradictory side to disprove God because, in some instances, he's cruel in the Bible?[/quote]
What was the good thing? The only time the Christian God is not cruel is when that petulant tyrant gets his way.
And before you point at the Jebus, take a look at this little snippet on family values:
Mission accomplished.
[quote name='CorporalJackson']Let me ask you this how can someone go to heaven if they don't believe that God is real? It's like if you say that I'm not real and then expect me to let you in my house when you have killed someone. It makes no sense that you even can think this way. But, you will just argue this most likely but no matter you will find out someday. I fell sorry for any of you going to hell wish I could change your minds still Jesus loves you even if you don't believe in him [/QUOTE]
So:
You believe in this entity, with no proof of its existence (if there was any proof, no faith would be needed).
You believe that upon death, it has the power to - and does - send us to one of two places.
And you're arguing about what rules it uses to make its decision?
Your example doesn't work because in it we're doing the "expecting", not you.
And remember, we're going to your hell according to what we believe in, not you. As it happens, according to other religions, you're going to their version of hell because you don't believe in them.
What a nice piece of advertising! Suppose pepsico could convince people they would be granted eternal joy for consuming their products and eternal pain for choosing something else - all after dying. Nobody can prove its not the truth, and people who are conned into it would be too scared to switch brands (or stopping drinking sodas altogether, which would be much better for them). How wonderful for business!
[quote name='CorporalJackson']You are just to ignorant to actually look into any real truths Jesus loves you[/QUOTE]
Truths? That's what you believe in. Again: modern religions are constructed so that there's no way to prove or disprove them.
There are billions of people that think your religion is wrong, there's is the truth, and they'd love to teach you about it. Face it: it's what you believe. It's not "the truth". If you choose to accept it as the truth, go ahead - as long as you make the choice for yourself, and that's it.
still Jesus loves you even if you don't believe in him [/QUOTE]So:
You believe in this entity, with no proof of its existence (if there was any proof, no faith would be needed).
You believe that upon death, it has the power to - and does - send us to one of two places.
And you're arguing about what rules it uses to make its decision?
Your example doesn't work because in it we're doing the "expecting", not you.
And remember, we're going to your hell according to what we believe in, not you. As it happens, according to other religions, you're going to their version of hell because you don't believe in them.
What a nice piece of advertising! Suppose pepsico could convince people they would be granted eternal joy for consuming their products and eternal pain for choosing something else - all after dying. Nobody can prove its not the truth, and people who are conned into it would be too scared to switch brands (or stopping drinking sodas altogether, which would be much better for them). How wonderful for business!
[quote name='CorporalJackson']You are just to ignorant to actually look into any real truths
Jesus loves you[/QUOTE]Truths? That's what you believe in. Again: modern religions are constructed so that there's no way to prove or disprove them.
There are billions of people that think your religion is wrong, there's is the truth, and they'd love to teach you about it. Face it: it's what you believe. It's not "the truth". If you choose to accept it as the truth, go ahead - as long as you make the choice for yourself, and that's it.
D
Dick Tracy
Guest
[quote name='camoor']What was the good thing? The only time the Christian God is not cruel is when that petulant tyrant gets his way.
And before you point at the Jebus, take a look at this little snippet on family values:
Mission accomplished.[/QUOTE]
Well, as per all of your arguments, you're manipulating and sculpting everything said, up to this point, and using evidence to your advantage, which delves you deeper into ignoring what it was you're actually arguing about. In this case, you're attempting to argue about nothing:
As I've mentioned before, the Bible was written and edited by man -- this is obvious.
God's "cruelty" was crafted by man, to instill "the fear of God" into his believers, so they don't stray away, otherwise.
Again, the counterintuity of using the Bible as a catalyst to disprove the Bible is a round-about kinda circle.
And before you point at the Jebus, take a look at this little snippet on family values:
Mission accomplished.[/QUOTE]
Well, as per all of your arguments, you're manipulating and sculpting everything said, up to this point, and using evidence to your advantage, which delves you deeper into ignoring what it was you're actually arguing about. In this case, you're attempting to argue about nothing:
As I've mentioned before, the Bible was written and edited by man -- this is obvious.
God's "cruelty" was crafted by man, to instill "the fear of God" into his believers, so they don't stray away, otherwise.
Again, the counterintuity of using the Bible as a catalyst to disprove the Bible is a round-about kinda circle.
[quote name='CorporalJackson']also just for people info the bible has been proven to be one of the most accurate historical books. As in locations, dates and, cities proven by other types of books diaries former rulers and just going to site of ruined cities like Sodom and Gomorrah. A group of scientists went to the site trying to disprove the bible and found large abouts of tar and such.[/QUOTE]
I'm scared that somebody would think this makes sense.
The bible's a jumble of books written by many people over centuries; it contains history, stories, legend, and mythology.
I love these stories people tell each other - "bad people - you know, scientists - tried to do something bad (against god) - but they were punished by having it backfire on them. we win!"
Scientists are concerned with facts. Like I said, you can't prove or disprove modern religions. So, large amounts of tar. Does that tell you a magical entity destroyed those cities? How? Nobody's saying they never existed. But just because california experiences earthquakes once in a while does not mean Lex Luthor is real and attacking it.
[both posts made much too early in the morning, and so contain stupid spelling and grammatical errors]
I'm scared that somebody would think this makes sense.
The bible's a jumble of books written by many people over centuries; it contains history, stories, legend, and mythology.
I love these stories people tell each other - "bad people - you know, scientists - tried to do something bad (against god) - but they were punished by having it backfire on them. we win!"
Scientists are concerned with facts. Like I said, you can't prove or disprove modern religions. So, large amounts of tar. Does that tell you a magical entity destroyed those cities? How? Nobody's saying they never existed. But just because california experiences earthquakes once in a while does not mean Lex Luthor is real and attacking it.
[both posts made much too early in the morning, and so contain stupid spelling and grammatical errors]
D
Dick Tracy
Guest
[quote name='eldad9']It's not "the truth". If you choose to accept it as the truth, go ahead - as long as you make the choice for yourself, and that's it.[/QUOTE]
It's a truth in the sense that it's his truth. It not being your truth doesn't make it false, as the Earth doesn't revolve around you -- which is, ironically under it all, how you feel about your (anti-)beliefs.
Devote your life to something else, as opposed to trying to shoot down the beliefs of others. Your life might be less embittered.
It's a truth in the sense that it's his truth. It not being your truth doesn't make it false, as the Earth doesn't revolve around you -- which is, ironically under it all, how you feel about your (anti-)beliefs.
Devote your life to something else, as opposed to trying to shoot down the beliefs of others. Your life might be less embittered.
You want cruelty in the bible? there you go.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
D
Dick Tracy
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[quote name='eldad9']You want cruelty in the bible? there you go.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html[/QUOTE]
You're only furthering my point with this semi-random-ass post.
Thanks.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html[/QUOTE]
You're only furthering my point with this semi-random-ass post.
Thanks.
Trancendental
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[quote name='Brak']Well, as per all of your arguments, you're manipulating and sculpting everything said, up to this point, and using evidence to your advantage, which delves you deeper into ignoring what it was you're actually arguing about. In this case, you're attempting to argue about nothing:
As I've mentioned before, the Bible was written and edited by man -- this is obvious.
God's "cruelty" was crafted by man, to instill "the fear of God" into his believers, so they don't stray away, otherwise.
Again, the counterintuity of using the Bible as a catalyst to disprove the Bible is a round-about kinda circle.[/quote]
Wiza-what?
Where was I trying to disprove the bible in this post - you have your posters confused, man.
Oh - and "sorry" for using evidence and facts to my advantage.
As I've mentioned before, the Bible was written and edited by man -- this is obvious.
God's "cruelty" was crafted by man, to instill "the fear of God" into his believers, so they don't stray away, otherwise.
Again, the counterintuity of using the Bible as a catalyst to disprove the Bible is a round-about kinda circle.[/quote]
Wiza-what?
Where was I trying to disprove the bible in this post - you have your posters confused, man.
Oh - and "sorry" for using evidence and facts to my advantage.
[quote name='Brak']It's a truth in the sense that it's his truth. It not being your truth doesn't make it false, as the Earth doesn't revolve around you -- which is, ironically under it all, how you feel about your (anti-)beliefs.
Devote your life to something else, as opposed to trying to shoot down the beliefs of others. Your life might be less embittered.[/QUOTE]
Truth doesn't work like that, but never mind that.
The problem is when people don't recognize that other viewpoints are valid and try hurting others who don't share them.
Devote your life to something else, as opposed to trying to shoot down the beliefs of others. Your life might be less embittered.[/QUOTE]
Truth doesn't work like that, but never mind that.
The problem is when people don't recognize that other viewpoints are valid and try hurting others who don't share them.
D
Dick Tracy
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[quote name='camoor']Wiza-what?
Where was I trying to disprove the bible in this post - you have your posters confused, man.
Oh - and "sorry" for using evidence and facts to my advantage.[/QUOTE]
No, no...
Here, look at the post of mine that you quoted earlier:
[quote name='Brak']Man's more-than-apparent editing of the Bible, throughout the ages, is pretty funny... but I don't think it's proper enough evidence to disprove God, or to make God look cruel -- which people use quite often, in regards to cruelty.[/QUOTE]
That's me discussing mans obvious first-hand impact on what the Bible is, and tells.
You challenged my comment on "Man ruining a good thing" with a verse from the Bible. Kinda foolish, right?
[quote name='camoor']What was the good thing? The only time the Christian God is not cruel is when that petulant tyrant gets his way.
And before you point at the Jebus, take a look at this little snippet on family values:
[Insert Verse Here][/QUOTE]
Where was I trying to disprove the bible in this post - you have your posters confused, man.
Oh - and "sorry" for using evidence and facts to my advantage.[/QUOTE]
No, no...
Here, look at the post of mine that you quoted earlier:
[quote name='Brak']Man's more-than-apparent editing of the Bible, throughout the ages, is pretty funny... but I don't think it's proper enough evidence to disprove God, or to make God look cruel -- which people use quite often, in regards to cruelty.[/QUOTE]
That's me discussing mans obvious first-hand impact on what the Bible is, and tells.
You challenged my comment on "Man ruining a good thing" with a verse from the Bible. Kinda foolish, right?
[quote name='camoor']What was the good thing? The only time the Christian God is not cruel is when that petulant tyrant gets his way.
And before you point at the Jebus, take a look at this little snippet on family values:
[Insert Verse Here][/QUOTE]
D
Dick Tracy
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[quote name='eldad9']Truth doesn't work like that, but never mind that.
The problem is when people don't recognize that other viewpoints are valid and try hurting others who don't share them.[/QUOTE]
Again, more of the embittered stressing of your beliefs onto others, claiming there is no other way. Which is ironic, since you keep claiming things in the vein "The problem is when people don't recognize that other viewpoints are valid and try hurting others who don't share them."
I guess becoming what you claim to hate is natural when you try fighting fire with fire.
If a guy were to believe he were Santa Claus... does that not make him Santa? To us, it doesn't -- but to him, he genuinely believes that he is Santa. It's a truth, to him
Who are we to tell him otherwise.
Sure, it'd be pertinent to his health to explain otherwise... but it's just an example.
The problem is when people don't recognize that other viewpoints are valid and try hurting others who don't share them.[/QUOTE]
Again, more of the embittered stressing of your beliefs onto others, claiming there is no other way. Which is ironic, since you keep claiming things in the vein "The problem is when people don't recognize that other viewpoints are valid and try hurting others who don't share them."
I guess becoming what you claim to hate is natural when you try fighting fire with fire.
If a guy were to believe he were Santa Claus... does that not make him Santa? To us, it doesn't -- but to him, he genuinely believes that he is Santa. It's a truth, to him
Who are we to tell him otherwise.
Sure, it'd be pertinent to his health to explain otherwise... but it's just an example.
mykevermin
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The irony about CorporalJackson's truths is that his truth was derived from the fact that christianity broke into multiple sects during the protestant reformation - the inherent argument is that the King of England decided that there were some nontruths and politicking amongst Catholics (e.g., indulgences). So, while trying to argue that one's version of the truth is, in fact, *the* truth, the same person makes the argument that other people's versions of the truth are fundamentally flawed; that in itself is fine, but it involves the willfull ignorance and outright denial that manipulation within one person's faith could possibly occur. Faith, in this case, is denial.
I think it's important for one to remain faithful (though, for full disclosure, I rarely am), but skeptical at the same time. Most Christian faiths disdain homosexuality, yet ignore a great deal of the other provisions made in Leviticus (the only book where homosexuality is allegedly condemned as an abomination). As eldad showed, Leviticus is a helluva tough way to live, and I'm willing to put up a dollar against anyone who thinks otherwise that we are all violating, at any point in time, many of the tenets in that book. So, there's manipulation and picking and choosing in just that one book, let alone the dozens of others.
So, it's important to be faithful, but not so faithless as to believe that humans, imperfect creatures that we are (and that's a fact whether or not you believe in a God), can accurately and consistently convey the beliefs of a perfect being(s).
I think it's important for one to remain faithful (though, for full disclosure, I rarely am), but skeptical at the same time. Most Christian faiths disdain homosexuality, yet ignore a great deal of the other provisions made in Leviticus (the only book where homosexuality is allegedly condemned as an abomination). As eldad showed, Leviticus is a helluva tough way to live, and I'm willing to put up a dollar against anyone who thinks otherwise that we are all violating, at any point in time, many of the tenets in that book. So, there's manipulation and picking and choosing in just that one book, let alone the dozens of others.
So, it's important to be faithful, but not so faithless as to believe that humans, imperfect creatures that we are (and that's a fact whether or not you believe in a God), can accurately and consistently convey the beliefs of a perfect being(s).
Trancendental
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[quote name='Brak']No, no...
Here, look at the post of mine that you quoted earlier:
That's me discussing mans obvious first-hand impact on what the Bible is, and tells.
You challenged my comment on "Man ruining a good thing" with a verse from the Bible. Kinda foolish, right?[/quote]
Listen, it's not my problem that your posts contain a bunch of random unconnected musings - I just picked the most ridiculous and attempted to work my way backwards.
However I admit that lauching this attempt was foolish.
Here, look at the post of mine that you quoted earlier:
That's me discussing mans obvious first-hand impact on what the Bible is, and tells.
You challenged my comment on "Man ruining a good thing" with a verse from the Bible. Kinda foolish, right?[/quote]
Listen, it's not my problem that your posts contain a bunch of random unconnected musings - I just picked the most ridiculous and attempted to work my way backwards.
However I admit that lauching this attempt was foolish.
[quote name='Brak']Again, more of the embittered stressing of your beliefs onto others, claiming there is no other way. Which is ironic, since you keep claiming things in the vein "The problem is when people don't recognize that other viewpoints are valid and try hurting others who don't share them."
I guess becoming what you claim to hate is natural when you try fighting fire with fire.
If a guy were to believe he were Santa Claus... does that not make him Santa? To us, it doesn't -- but to him, he genuinely believes that he is Santa. It's a truth, to him
Who are we to tell him otherwise.
Sure, it'd be pertinent to his health to explain otherwise... but it's just an example.[/QUOTE]
I've got no problem with anybody believing in no religion, any religion, or any combination. However, if your guy tries to silence people who say santa doesn't exist, kill people who give each other presents, or try to pass laws prohibiting anybody from coming withing 500 miles of his north pole workshop - that is, when he starts hurting others - it's then that I have a problem with him.
But the whole thing is ridiculous. You're talking about madness, not a new religion, because santa's one of the christian myths. It's a fine distinction, of course.
I guess becoming what you claim to hate is natural when you try fighting fire with fire.
If a guy were to believe he were Santa Claus... does that not make him Santa? To us, it doesn't -- but to him, he genuinely believes that he is Santa. It's a truth, to him
Who are we to tell him otherwise.
Sure, it'd be pertinent to his health to explain otherwise... but it's just an example.[/QUOTE]
I've got no problem with anybody believing in no religion, any religion, or any combination. However, if your guy tries to silence people who say santa doesn't exist, kill people who give each other presents, or try to pass laws prohibiting anybody from coming withing 500 miles of his north pole workshop - that is, when he starts hurting others - it's then that I have a problem with him.
But the whole thing is ridiculous. You're talking about madness, not a new religion, because santa's one of the christian myths. It's a fine distinction, of course.
D
Dick Tracy
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[quote name='camoor']Listen, it's not my problem that your posts contain a bunch of random unconnected musings - I just picked the most ridiculous and attempted to work my way backwards.
However I admit that lauching this attempt was foolish.[/QUOTE]
So, I'm an idiot, then?
Also, everything I've said is disconnected..? Every time you've addressed one of my posts - which all have had the same theme, thus far; you cannot connect them, however - you challenge them with something that has zero correlation with my post. ZERO. Challenge for the sake of challenge.
Again, this can be attributed to the fact that you read and interpret what you want to read and interpret -- which you do every time you post. This is good, though, as you're proving a point*.
Also, you're very wise for encorporating someone else's quote into every one of your posts. You, sir, are very worldly.
[quote name='eldad9']I've got no problem with anybody believing in no religion, any religion, or any combination. However, if your guy tries to silence people who say santa doesn't exist, kill people who give each other presents, or try to pass laws prohibiting anybody from coming withing 500 miles of his north pole workshop - that is, when he starts hurting others - it's then that I have a problem with him.
But the whole thing is ridiculous. You're talking about madness, not a new religion, because santa's one of the christian myths. It's a fine distinction, of course.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. But I'm going to have to go back to the topic where you didn't want to support the Christian juggernaut by donating your old blue jeans (I'm too lazy to look the thread up):
You're generalizing Christians. You claim the Christian religion is the bane of society; causes pain, prejudice, death, etc.
*My point is that it's people who cause those things. There are bad apples in every tree -- the trees being a variety of religions, beliefs and whatnot.
The theme of all of my posts is "interpretation". "Truths" aren't always absolute because of humans' ability of interpretation.
However I admit that lauching this attempt was foolish.[/QUOTE]
So, I'm an idiot, then?
Also, everything I've said is disconnected..? Every time you've addressed one of my posts - which all have had the same theme, thus far; you cannot connect them, however - you challenge them with something that has zero correlation with my post. ZERO. Challenge for the sake of challenge.
Again, this can be attributed to the fact that you read and interpret what you want to read and interpret -- which you do every time you post. This is good, though, as you're proving a point*.
Also, you're very wise for encorporating someone else's quote into every one of your posts. You, sir, are very worldly.
[quote name='eldad9']I've got no problem with anybody believing in no religion, any religion, or any combination. However, if your guy tries to silence people who say santa doesn't exist, kill people who give each other presents, or try to pass laws prohibiting anybody from coming withing 500 miles of his north pole workshop - that is, when he starts hurting others - it's then that I have a problem with him.
But the whole thing is ridiculous. You're talking about madness, not a new religion, because santa's one of the christian myths. It's a fine distinction, of course.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. But I'm going to have to go back to the topic where you didn't want to support the Christian juggernaut by donating your old blue jeans (I'm too lazy to look the thread up):
You're generalizing Christians. You claim the Christian religion is the bane of society; causes pain, prejudice, death, etc.
*My point is that it's people who cause those things. There are bad apples in every tree -- the trees being a variety of religions, beliefs and whatnot.
The theme of all of my posts is "interpretation". "Truths" aren't always absolute because of humans' ability of interpretation.
[quote name='evanft']Christianity is inherently immoral, as it denies reality-based morality in favor of submission to god's will.[/QUOTE]
Almost no religion is all bad - christianity too has those "be nice to others" bits - but most are burdened by the stuff required to make people believe and keep them in line. That is, if you make up a benevolent god, asking people to believe it isn't as bad as if you make up one that has you kill people for stuff like being gay or shaving or eating shellfish.
People are free to deny whatever parts of reality they choose - as long as they choose for themselves. Foolish, maybe, but there's no laws against that, nor should there be.
Almost no religion is all bad - christianity too has those "be nice to others" bits - but most are burdened by the stuff required to make people believe and keep them in line. That is, if you make up a benevolent god, asking people to believe it isn't as bad as if you make up one that has you kill people for stuff like being gay or shaving or eating shellfish.
People are free to deny whatever parts of reality they choose - as long as they choose for themselves. Foolish, maybe, but there's no laws against that, nor should there be.
[quote name='eldad9']Almost no religion is all bad - christianity too has those "be nice to others" bits - but most are burdened by the stuff required to make people believe and keep them in line. That is, if you make up a benevolent god, asking people to believe it isn't as bad as if you make up one that has you kill people for stuff like being gay or shaving or eating shellfish.
People are free to deny whatever parts of reality they choose - as long as they choose for themselves. Foolish, maybe, but there's no laws against that, nor should there be.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and? It's still inherently immoral to base morality on anything other than reality.
People are free to deny whatever parts of reality they choose - as long as they choose for themselves. Foolish, maybe, but there's no laws against that, nor should there be.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and? It's still inherently immoral to base morality on anything other than reality.
bread's done