In the Spirit of .9999 not = 1 and 1.10 not = 1.1...
- Thread starter Kayden
- Start date
[quote name='evilmax17']Just popping in to remind everybody that infinity is a mathematical concept and not a number. That is all.[/quote]
An infinity is impossible in material reality. The reason for this is that the existence of any real infinity results in contradictions. The contradictions (e.g. the irresistible force encounters the immovable object) are impossible therefore infinity is impossible, except as a non-material theoretical concept.
An infinity is impossible in material reality. The reason for this is that the existence of any real infinity results in contradictions. The contradictions (e.g. the irresistible force encounters the immovable object) are impossible therefore infinity is impossible, except as a non-material theoretical concept.
Kayden
Banned
[quote name='RichD1'][quote name='evilmax17']Just popping in to remind everybody that infinity is a mathematical concept and not a number. That is all.[/quote]
An infinity is impossible in material reality. The reason for this is that the existence of any real infinity results in contradictions. The contradictions (e.g. the irresistible force encounters the immovable object) are impossible therefore infinity is impossible, except as a non-material theoretical concept.
[/quote]
*head explodes*
An infinity is impossible in material reality. The reason for this is that the existence of any real infinity results in contradictions. The contradictions (e.g. the irresistible force encounters the immovable object) are impossible therefore infinity is impossible, except as a non-material theoretical concept.
[/quote]*head explodes*
[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='RichD1'][quote name='evilmax17']Just popping in to remind everybody that infinity is a mathematical concept and not a number. That is all.[/quote]
An infinity is impossible in material reality. The reason for this is that the existence of any real infinity results in contradictions. The contradictions (e.g. the irresistible force encounters the immovable object) are impossible therefore infinity is impossible, except as a non-material theoretical concept.
[/quote]
*head explodes*[/quote]
:lol: For example of that; I was just talking to a friend about the .99bar = 1 thing:
Him-- i agree it's as close to any number will ever be to being 1... however it never actually hits 1. when you consider 1 to be the whole universe, the difference between .9bar and 1 is about the size of a quark (the subatomic particle). so you can call it 1 if you want, i won't lose sleep over it or anything.
Me --
The whole universe is infinitely large, so the space between the two is also infinitely large, though much smaller than the universe. How can something infinitely large be smaller than something infinitely large. The material concept of infinity will always lead to contradictions.
PS--He wasn't responding to me--I agree with him that .99bar != 1. At best, .99bar ~ 1
An infinity is impossible in material reality. The reason for this is that the existence of any real infinity results in contradictions. The contradictions (e.g. the irresistible force encounters the immovable object) are impossible therefore infinity is impossible, except as a non-material theoretical concept.
[/quote]*head explodes*[/quote]
:lol: For example of that; I was just talking to a friend about the .99bar = 1 thing:
Him-- i agree it's as close to any number will ever be to being 1... however it never actually hits 1. when you consider 1 to be the whole universe, the difference between .9bar and 1 is about the size of a quark (the subatomic particle). so you can call it 1 if you want, i won't lose sleep over it or anything.
Me --
The whole universe is infinitely large, so the space between the two is also infinitely large, though much smaller than the universe. How can something infinitely large be smaller than something infinitely large. The material concept of infinity will always lead to contradictions.
PS--He wasn't responding to me--I agree with him that .99bar != 1. At best, .99bar ~ 1
SadieDee
CAGiversary!
OMG, you guys have way too much time on your hands to be debating mathematical issues.
If you take the finance point of view, in the end everything will be rounded to within 2 decimal places when money exchanges hands (from a bank to a person, it'll have to be rounded to the penny).
or...if you take the chemistry side with "significant figures", 5 * 5 = 20. Yeppers, I didn't do well in chemistry.
If you take the finance point of view, in the end everything will be rounded to within 2 decimal places when money exchanges hands (from a bank to a person, it'll have to be rounded to the penny).
or...if you take the chemistry side with "significant figures", 5 * 5 = 20. Yeppers, I didn't do well in chemistry.
Nirvanaguy777
CAGiversary!
.......
math.
math.
[quote name='evilmax17']Just popping in to remind everybody that infinity is a mathematical concept and not a number. That is all.[/quote]
Then please show me the number(s) where 0.99bar switches and equals 1. IF these two terms were equal, there would be no need for one of them. We would simply count in whole numbers.
Then please show me the number(s) where 0.99bar switches and equals 1. IF these two terms were equal, there would be no need for one of them. We would simply count in whole numbers.
Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).
[quote name='Tromack']Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...9 1/10 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.
And then we come up with that problem again: How can something infinitely close to 1 be closer than something else infinitely close to 1. (the .99...9 vs the .99...9 1/10)
Oh that. I can't put it into words. I'm not sure what that 1/10 would in fact be.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...9 1/10 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.
And then we come up with that problem again: How can something infinitely close to 1 be closer than something else infinitely close to 1. (the .99...9 vs the .99...9 1/10)Oh
that. I can't put it into words. I'm not sure what that 1/10 would in fact be.[quote name='RichD1'][quote name='Tromack']Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.[/quote]
There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.
And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.
[/quote]There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.
And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).
[quote name='Tromack'][quote name='RichD1'][quote name='Tromack']Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.[/quote]
There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.
And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).[/quote]
I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.
Bah. I'm rambling and not even making sense now. I've got all this shit in my head but I can't put it to works.
Regardless, I believe that no matter how infinity small a number gets and how many 9s you put after .999, you can always add one more which will make it still not equal to 1, but .00infinity1 away. The whole problem is whether or not .00infinity1 can exist because the 1 will never be reached, but ehhh, i hope you get the idea.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.
[/quote]There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.
And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).[/quote]
I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.
Bah. I'm rambling and not even making sense now. I've got all this shit in my head but I can't put it to works.
Regardless, I believe that no matter how infinity small a number gets and how many 9s you put after .999, you can always add one more which will make it still not equal to 1, but .00infinity1 away. The whole problem is whether or not .00infinity1 can exist because the 1 will never be reached, but ehhh, i hope you get the idea.
[quote name='RichD1'][quote name='Tromack'][quote name='RichD1'][quote name='Tromack']Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.[/quote]
There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.
And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).[/quote]
I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.[/quote]
I guess you are entitled to your view of infinity. I will just let you know however, that it makes no sense mathematically, so to try to bring it into the established realm of mathematics is nonsensical. You are free to create your own, albeit inferior, mathematics if you want though.
Edit- On second thought you make absolutely no sense. You contradict yourself. You speak of something infinitely long but having an end. You are just horribly incorrect.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.
[/quote]There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.
And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).[/quote]
I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.[/quote]
I guess you are entitled to your view of infinity. I will just let you know however, that it makes no sense mathematically, so to try to bring it into the established realm of mathematics is nonsensical. You are free to create your own, albeit inferior, mathematics if you want though.
Edit- On second thought you make absolutely no sense. You contradict yourself. You speak of something infinitely long but having an end. You are just horribly incorrect.
[quote name='Tromack'][quote name='RichD1'][quote name='Tromack'][quote name='RichD1'][quote name='Tromack']Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.[/quote]
There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.
And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).[/quote]
I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.[/quote]
I guess you are entitled to your view of infinity. I will just let you know however, that it makes no sense mathematically, so to try to bring it into the established realm of mathematics is nonsensical. You are free to create your own, albeit inferior, mathematics if you want though.[/quote]
I've already agreed that it makes no sense mathematically and it has been proven incorrect mathematically which I've proven myself twice now already. I'm talking in totally philosophical terms on the view of infinity. When I do math, I take the standard view of infinity though I disagree with it.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.
[/quote]There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.
And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).[/quote]
I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.[/quote]
I guess you are entitled to your view of infinity. I will just let you know however, that it makes no sense mathematically, so to try to bring it into the established realm of mathematics is nonsensical. You are free to create your own, albeit inferior, mathematics if you want though.[/quote]
I've already agreed that it makes no sense mathematically and it has been proven incorrect mathematically which I've proven myself twice now already. I'm talking in totally philosophical terms on the view of infinity. When I do math, I take the standard view of infinity though I disagree with it.
[quote name='RichD1'][quote name='Tromack'][quote name='RichD1'][quote name='Tromack'][quote name='RichD1'][quote name='Tromack']Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.[/quote]
There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.
And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).[/quote]
I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.[/quote]
I guess you are entitled to your view of infinity. I will just let you know however, that it makes no sense mathematically, so to try to bring it into the established realm of mathematics is nonsensical. You are free to create your own, albeit inferior, mathematics if you want though.[/quote]
I've already agreed that it makes no sense mathematically and it has been proven incorrect mathematically which I've proven myself twice now already. I'm talking in totally philosophical terms on the view of infinity. When I do math, I take the standard view of infinity though I disagree with it.[/quote]
So, what I'm getting is. You are wrong. And you know you are wrong. Well, at least we agree on that.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.
[/quote]There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.
And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).[/quote]
I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.[/quote]
I guess you are entitled to your view of infinity. I will just let you know however, that it makes no sense mathematically, so to try to bring it into the established realm of mathematics is nonsensical. You are free to create your own, albeit inferior, mathematics if you want though.[/quote]
I've already agreed that it makes no sense mathematically and it has been proven incorrect mathematically which I've proven myself twice now already. I'm talking in totally philosophical terms on the view of infinity. When I do math, I take the standard view of infinity though I disagree with it.[/quote]
So, what I'm getting is. You are wrong. And you know you are wrong. Well, at least we agree on that.
[quote name='Tromack'][quote name='RichD1'][quote name='Tromack'][quote name='RichD1'][quote name='Tromack'][quote name='RichD1'][quote name='Tromack']Ok, Ok. Here is a proof of why .999... = 1.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.[/quote]
There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.
And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).[/quote]
I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.[/quote]
I guess you are entitled to your view of infinity. I will just let you know however, that it makes no sense mathematically, so to try to bring it into the established realm of mathematics is nonsensical. You are free to create your own, albeit inferior, mathematics if you want though.[/quote]
I've already agreed that it makes no sense mathematically and it has been proven incorrect mathematically which I've proven myself twice now already. I'm talking in totally philosophical terms on the view of infinity. When I do math, I take the standard view of infinity though I disagree with it.[/quote]
So, what I'm getting is. You are wrong. And you know you are wrong. Well, at least we agree on that.[/quote]
In accordance to mathematical standards, yes. But I don't agree with them. I agree there is a space no matter how small between the graph and the x=1. It is infinitely small, but it is present. As the limit states, it approaches, but does not hit, 1.
Let x = .999...
so, 10x = 9.999... since you just move the decimal place over one space
10x - x = 9x = 9.999... - .999... = 9
thus 9x = 9 which implies that x = 1
I have taken more math than 99.99% of the people in the world (note I do not have the data to back up this statistic, but I would certainly wager on it)
As for the matter of infinity, infinity as term gets bandied around a lot by the general public and it makes us people knowledgable about math very sad.
Oh and RichD1, you do show some insight. The size of the set of the real numbers, i.e. what most people consider if you talk about all numbers, is the same size as the interval from (0,1).[/quote]
We're all seen that proof, and it's usually the one that brings the whole debate to fruition in the first place. It really doesn't prove anything more than the integral I posted or this:
LINKY! (doesn't look right on background)
Still, however, I can't bring myself to accept that infinitely small number from disappearing.
Besides, i would argue that 10x != 9.999....9 but rather 9.99...91 but I can't put it into words right now. And I'm lazy.
[/quote]There is your problem. You are thinking that the .9999.... ends at some point. But it doesn't. It has an infinite number of digits. That's where this all comes from.
And before you say something can't have an infinite number of digits look at a number like square root of 2 or pi (or as I like to refer to it, the ratio between a circle's diameter and circumference).[/quote]
I know you can have an infinite amount of digits, hence the ... in the middle representing the infinity amount of digits before you reach that point, though you'll never actually reach that point. It's like the number is there and then the numbers start appearing in the middle instead of the end. IT'S TEH INSANITY. It's the exact same thing me and eldad went over for, for like 10 pages last year. I know it can't happen, but there's an end that will never be reached because it's infinitely far away. It's like walking up a down escalator at the same speed it's going down, so you'll stay at the same point for an infinite amount of time but the end is there, if you can follow what I'm trying to say. It's just a different view of infinity I have from everyone else, and since infinity can't be described in any material way, it doesn't even matter what anyone thinks because we can never understand it aside from a conceptual idea.[/quote]
I guess you are entitled to your view of infinity. I will just let you know however, that it makes no sense mathematically, so to try to bring it into the established realm of mathematics is nonsensical. You are free to create your own, albeit inferior, mathematics if you want though.[/quote]
I've already agreed that it makes no sense mathematically and it has been proven incorrect mathematically which I've proven myself twice now already. I'm talking in totally philosophical terms on the view of infinity. When I do math, I take the standard view of infinity though I disagree with it.[/quote]
So, what I'm getting is. You are wrong. And you know you are wrong. Well, at least we agree on that.[/quote]
In accordance to mathematical standards, yes. But I don't agree with them. I agree there is a space no matter how small between the graph and the x=1. It is infinitely small, but it is present. As the limit states, it approaches, but does not hit, 1.
lionheart4life
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='Kayden'][quote name='minos1067'][quote name='eldad9'][quote name='minos1067']0.9999 is not equal to 1 and 1.10 is equal to 1.1.
all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.
am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.[/quote]
That thread was not about 0.9999, it was about 0.9999.... (an infinite amount of nines).[/quote]
still not equal. if someone's a stingy ass biotch and you owe him $200, he's not going to accept $199 and a obliterated dollar bill thats in specks of dust. street law says it wont add up.[/quote]
Well... if you wanna get technical, as long as you have 2/3 of a bill its considered legal tender... 2/3=.6666666666 So... .999999 would be like tearing a bit of the corner off, which I'm sure someone would accept.[/quote]
Who I just realized the potential of a possible great deal. Tear the left 1/3 and right 1/3 off of two separate dollar bills and attach them. You now have 3 2/3 dollars = $3 for the price of $2. Deal of the century, now thats useful math.
all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.
am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.[/quote]
That thread was not about 0.9999, it was about 0.9999.... (an infinite amount of nines).[/quote]
still not equal. if someone's a stingy ass biotch and you owe him $200, he's not going to accept $199 and a obliterated dollar bill thats in specks of dust. street law says it wont add up.[/quote]Well... if you wanna get technical, as long as you have 2/3 of a bill its considered legal tender... 2/3=.6666666666 So... .999999 would be like tearing a bit of the corner off, which I'm sure someone would accept.[/quote]
Who I just realized the potential of a possible great deal. Tear the left 1/3 and right 1/3 off of two separate dollar bills and attach them. You now have 3 2/3 dollars = $3 for the price of $2. Deal of the century, now thats useful math.
[quote name='lionheart4life'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='minos1067'][quote name='eldad9'][quote name='minos1067']0.9999 is not equal to 1 and 1.10 is equal to 1.1.
all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.
am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.[/quote]
That thread was not about 0.9999, it was about 0.9999.... (an infinite amount of nines).[/quote]
still not equal. if someone's a stingy ass biotch and you owe him $200, he's not going to accept $199 and a obliterated dollar bill thats in specks of dust. street law says it wont add up.[/quote]
Well... if you wanna get technical, as long as you have 2/3 of a bill its considered legal tender... 2/3=.6666666666 So... .999999 would be like tearing a bit of the corner off, which I'm sure someone would accept.[/quote]
Who I just realized the potential of a possible great deal. Tear the left 1/3 and right 1/3 off of two separate dollar bills and attach them. You now have 3 2/3 dollars = $3 for the price of $2. Deal of the century, now thats useful math.[/quote]
Um, you're missing the middle of the bill. They don't accept two 1/3s as opposed to one 2/3.
all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.
am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.[/quote]
That thread was not about 0.9999, it was about 0.9999.... (an infinite amount of nines).[/quote]
still not equal. if someone's a stingy ass biotch and you owe him $200, he's not going to accept $199 and a obliterated dollar bill thats in specks of dust. street law says it wont add up.[/quote]Well... if you wanna get technical, as long as you have 2/3 of a bill its considered legal tender... 2/3=.6666666666 So... .999999 would be like tearing a bit of the corner off, which I'm sure someone would accept.[/quote]
Who I just realized the potential of a possible great deal. Tear the left 1/3 and right 1/3 off of two separate dollar bills and attach them. You now have 3 2/3 dollars = $3 for the price of $2. Deal of the century, now thats useful math.[/quote]
Um, you're missing the middle of the bill. They don't accept two 1/3s as opposed to one 2/3.
lionheart4life
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='RichD1'][quote name='lionheart4life'][quote name='Kayden'][quote name='minos1067'][quote name='eldad9'][quote name='minos1067']0.9999 is not equal to 1 and 1.10 is equal to 1.1.
all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.
am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.[/quote]
That thread was not about 0.9999, it was about 0.9999.... (an infinite amount of nines).[/quote]
still not equal. if someone's a stingy ass biotch and you owe him $200, he's not going to accept $199 and a obliterated dollar bill thats in specks of dust. street law says it wont add up.[/quote]
Well... if you wanna get technical, as long as you have 2/3 of a bill its considered legal tender... 2/3=.6666666666 So... .999999 would be like tearing a bit of the corner off, which I'm sure someone would accept.[/quote]
Who I just realized the potential of a possible great deal. Tear the left 1/3 and right 1/3 off of two separate dollar bills and attach them. You now have 3 2/3 dollars = $3 for the price of $2. Deal of the century, now thats useful math.[/quote]
Um, you're missing the middle of the bill. They don't accept two 1/3s as opposed to one 2/3.[/quote]
Please don't kill this deal for other people! JK, I know its not for real, just bringing some joke math into the topic.
all the numbers to the left of 0 are negative and all the numbers to the right are positive on a x axis. on the y axis, positive as you rise and negative as you fall.
am i too serious about this topic? cause i could go on forever.[/quote]
That thread was not about 0.9999, it was about 0.9999.... (an infinite amount of nines).[/quote]
still not equal. if someone's a stingy ass biotch and you owe him $200, he's not going to accept $199 and a obliterated dollar bill thats in specks of dust. street law says it wont add up.[/quote]Well... if you wanna get technical, as long as you have 2/3 of a bill its considered legal tender... 2/3=.6666666666 So... .999999 would be like tearing a bit of the corner off, which I'm sure someone would accept.[/quote]
Who I just realized the potential of a possible great deal. Tear the left 1/3 and right 1/3 off of two separate dollar bills and attach them. You now have 3 2/3 dollars = $3 for the price of $2. Deal of the century, now thats useful math.[/quote]
Um, you're missing the middle of the bill. They don't accept two 1/3s as opposed to one 2/3.
[/quote]Please don't kill this deal for other people! JK, I know its not for real, just bringing some joke math into the topic.
One problem I find with infinity is that time is never a factor though it should be.
1/infinity1 * infinity2 = 1, right?
Well, what if the infinity1 is much further advanced than infinity2 ? What if infinity1 started increasing in size prior to infinity2 and remains increasing at the same rates? What if infinity2 + 100 = infinity1?
Now I know in mathematical terms, that doesn't make sense, but does everything start becoming infinitely large at the same time in the universe, or can something be set into motion to start becoming infinity large?
1/infinity1 * infinity2 = 1, right?
Well, what if the infinity1 is much further advanced than infinity2 ? What if infinity1 started increasing in size prior to infinity2 and remains increasing at the same rates? What if infinity2 + 100 = infinity1?
Now I know in mathematical terms, that doesn't make sense, but does everything start becoming infinitely large at the same time in the universe, or can something be set into motion to start becoming infinity large?
Woohoo, I found something that will, sort of, explain myself.
Search for the Holt #. Basically the whole argument of whether or not .999 = 1 is whether or not the Holt # exists.
Anyways, does anyone agree that there are levels of infinities? Like infinity x 2 > infinity? Both are infinity large, but one larger than the other.
Search for the Holt #. Basically the whole argument of whether or not .999 = 1 is whether or not the Holt # exists.
Anyways, does anyone agree that there are levels of infinities? Like infinity x 2 > infinity? Both are infinity large, but one larger than the other.
Speaking of Pi, here's an interesting thought: Since Pi has an infinite number of non-repeating digits, it therefore has, at some point inside of it, every sequence of numbers imaginable. This means that somewhere in Pi there is a series of numbers that if you were to run it through a video codec it would output you having nasty hot sex with your best male friend.
Reality's Fringe
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Which is why I always declared Pi to be evil, but none of those damn eggheads would listen. When will they learn?!
hiccupleftovers
CAGiversary!
[quote name='RichD1']Woohoo, I found something that will, sort of, explain myself.
Search for the Holt #. Basically the whole argument of whether or not .999 = 1 is whether or not the Holt # exists.
Anyways, does anyone agree that there are levels of infinities? Like infinity x 2 > infinity? Both are infinity large, but one larger than the other.[/quote]
Do you by any chance have any links to the HOlt #? I did a search for it and couldn't find anything on it or levels of infinity.
Search for the Holt #. Basically the whole argument of whether or not .999 = 1 is whether or not the Holt # exists.
Anyways, does anyone agree that there are levels of infinities? Like infinity x 2 > infinity? Both are infinity large, but one larger than the other.[/quote]
Do you by any chance have any links to the HOlt #? I did a search for it and couldn't find anything on it or levels of infinity.
[quote name='RichD1']One problem I find with infinity is that time is never a factor though it should be.
1/infinity1 * infinity2 = 1, right?
Well, what if the infinity1 is much further advanced than infinity2 ? What if infinity1 started increasing in size prior to infinity2 and remains increasing at the same rates? What if infinity2 + 100 = infinity1?
Now I know in mathematical terms, that doesn't make sense, but does everything start becoming infinitely large at the same time in the universe, or can something be set into motion to start becoming infinity large?[/quote]
Ok, let's start at the beginning. You can't think of infinity as a number. You can talk about the limit of something as it approaches infinity but that is it. As per your
1/infinity1 * infinity2 = 1. That is not necessarily true. I mean if you are talking about
limit as x->infinity of 1/x * x, then yes that equals 1. However if you mean two different functions that apporoach infinity then you can't just assume it will equal 1. If you mean something like limit as x-> infinity of (x+100)/x, then yes that equals 1 too. Because if you think about it, 100 is negligible compared to something hideously large.
It is actually an important thing in Computer Science also. Because a constant or linear factor is negligible in the long run and only a difference in the type of function makes a serious difference.
I hope that answers some questions.
Edit- Actually I talk back my first statement. You actually can talk about infinity as a number, but not in any traditional sense. Mostly it is used to talk about the size of sets, mostly the Natural numbers (0 or any other natural number + 1) and the real numbers.
The natural numbers have size of Aleph Nought. The Real Numbers have size of 2^(Aleph Nought)
1/infinity1 * infinity2 = 1, right?
Well, what if the infinity1 is much further advanced than infinity2 ? What if infinity1 started increasing in size prior to infinity2 and remains increasing at the same rates? What if infinity2 + 100 = infinity1?
Now I know in mathematical terms, that doesn't make sense, but does everything start becoming infinitely large at the same time in the universe, or can something be set into motion to start becoming infinity large?[/quote]
Ok, let's start at the beginning. You can't think of infinity as a number. You can talk about the limit of something as it approaches infinity but that is it. As per your
1/infinity1 * infinity2 = 1. That is not necessarily true. I mean if you are talking about
limit as x->infinity of 1/x * x, then yes that equals 1. However if you mean two different functions that apporoach infinity then you can't just assume it will equal 1. If you mean something like limit as x-> infinity of (x+100)/x, then yes that equals 1 too. Because if you think about it, 100 is negligible compared to something hideously large.
It is actually an important thing in Computer Science also. Because a constant or linear factor is negligible in the long run and only a difference in the type of function makes a serious difference.
I hope that answers some questions.
Edit- Actually I talk back my first statement. You actually can talk about infinity as a number, but not in any traditional sense. Mostly it is used to talk about the size of sets, mostly the Natural numbers (0 or any other natural number + 1) and the real numbers.
The natural numbers have size of Aleph Nought. The Real Numbers have size of 2^(Aleph Nought)
[quote name='hiccupleftovers'][quote name='RichD1']Woohoo, I found something that will, sort of, explain myself.
Search for the Holt #. Basically the whole argument of whether or not .999 = 1 is whether or not the Holt # exists.
Anyways, does anyone agree that there are levels of infinities? Like infinity x 2 > infinity? Both are infinity large, but one larger than the other.[/quote]
Do you by any chance have any links to the HOlt #? I did a search for it and couldn't find anything on it or levels of infinity.[/quote]
Search for Brian Holt infinity.
Search for the Holt #. Basically the whole argument of whether or not .999 = 1 is whether or not the Holt # exists.
Anyways, does anyone agree that there are levels of infinities? Like infinity x 2 > infinity? Both are infinity large, but one larger than the other.[/quote]
Do you by any chance have any links to the HOlt #? I did a search for it and couldn't find anything on it or levels of infinity.[/quote]
Search for Brian Holt infinity.
bread's done