Iranian President Calls For Israel to Be Destroyed: "World Without Zionism" Meeting

PittsburghAfterDark

PittsburghAfterDark

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Now, imagine a U.S. President or Israeli PM holding or attending a "World Without Islam" conference, attending it, being a keynote speaker and having this quote appear in the world press. We sit and shrug and go "Meh, it's just Iran." meanwhile they work on an atomic program of dubious nature and make statements like this.

So, to all those that think Islam IS a religion of peace... How hypocritical does your logic have to be to gloss this one over?

I'm willing to bet more of you will be more passionate about anything a grand jury may or may not do and think it's a greater threat to national and world security than this.

Iran president calls for Israel to be destroyed

1 hour, 32 minutes ago

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Wednesday Israel should be "wiped off the map," the official IRNA news agency reported, dampening hopes Iran could temper its hostility toward the Jewish state.

Support for the Palestinian cause is a central pillar of the Islamic Republic which officially refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist.

"Israel must be wiped off the map," Ahmadinejad told a conference called "The World without Zionism," attended by some 3,000 conservative students who chanted "Death to Israel" and "Death to America."

Under reformist President Mohammad Khatami, whose eight-year tenure ended earlier this year, Iran had shown signs of easing its implacable hostility toward Israel. Officials said Tehran might not object to a two-state solution if that was what the Palestinians wanted.

But Ahmadinejad, a former member of the hardline Revolutionary Guards and traditional religious conservative, said there could be no let-up.

"The Islamic world will not let its historic enemy live in its heartland," he said.

Ahmadinejad, who took office in August, said Israel would be destroyed by a new wave of Palestinian attacks.

"Surely the new wave of (attacks) in Palestine ... will erase this stigma from the Islamic world," he said.

Tehran denies accusations it trains and arms Palestinian militant groups, saying it only offers moral support.
Link
 
And you point to the supreme brutal dictator of a theocracy as a pure representation of all Muslims?

Does that mean Jerry Falwell is a representative of all Christians and that all Christians believe fags caused 9/11?

You fail at life, retard. Now go back to spewing bullshit on Live will all of your 11 year old KKK online buddies.
 
Does Jerry Falwell represent a country? Was he elected President? Does he oversea a military? Does he currently have a nuclear program? Hell, not even Jerry Falwell is calling for the destruction of Islam.

Wow, first thread tries moral equivilency. Not that I'm surprised but the two aren't comparable.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Now, imagine a U.S. President or Israeli PM holding or attending a "World Without Islam" conference, attending it, being a keynote speaker and having this quote appear in the world press. We sit and shrug and go "Meh, it's just Iran." meanwhile they work on an atomic program of dubious nature and make statements like this.

So, to all those that think Islam IS a religion of peace... How hypocritical does your logic have to be to gloss this one over?

I'm willing to bet more of you will be more passionate about anything a grand jury may or may not do and think it's a greater threat to national and world security than this.

Iran president calls for Israel to be destroyed

1 hour, 32 minutes ago

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Wednesday Israel should be "wiped off the map," the official IRNA news agency reported, dampening hopes Iran could temper its hostility toward the Jewish state.

Support for the Palestinian cause is a central pillar of the Islamic Republic which officially refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist.

"Israel must be wiped off the map," Ahmadinejad told a conference called "The World without Zionism," attended by some 3,000 conservative students who chanted "Death to Israel" and "Death to America."

Under reformist President Mohammad Khatami, whose eight-year tenure ended earlier this year, Iran had shown signs of easing its implacable hostility toward Israel. Officials said Tehran might not object to a two-state solution if that was what the Palestinians wanted.

But Ahmadinejad, a former member of the hardline Revolutionary Guards and traditional religious conservative, said there could be no let-up.

"The Islamic world will not let its historic enemy live in its heartland," he said.

Ahmadinejad, who took office in August, said Israel would be destroyed by a new wave of Palestinian attacks.

"Surely the new wave of (attacks) in Palestine ... will erase this stigma from the Islamic world," he said.

Tehran denies accusations it trains and arms Palestinian militant groups, saying it only offers moral support.
Link [/QUOTE]


this isnt really new news, I mean in the PLO doctorine or charter it talks of pushing Israel into the sea. This is def a bad thing but its not like there have been any new developments in it. Plus there is no easy solution to it. Also just because some muslims feel this way does not mean all feel this way. Its like saying all Republicans are fiscally conservative, which we know is not true. Generalities are the gateway to ignorance.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']So the lie, repeated often enough becomes the "truth". You would have made a wonderful Nazi.[/QUOTE]

me?
 
I mean if this isn't news or worth being concerned about your stance is the same as indifference to Nazi hatred of Jews. I mean, hell, everyone knew they didn't like the Jews so how is it news? Why is it worth paying attention to or something to be concerned about.

So yes, you would have made an excellent Nazi. Well, maybe not a Nazi, you'd just be one of the "good" Germans that did nothing and didn't care because it didn't effect you.
 
How different is this from the "Evil Empire", and "Running Dogs of the Imperialists" rhetoric thrown about during the cold war? We learned to live in peace with Russia, normalized relations with China, etc. Who's to say that Iran won't do the same with Israel? A free and Democratic Iraq would be a major step in the right direction.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I mean if this isn't news or worth being concerned about your stance is the same as indifference to Nazi hatred of Jews. I mean, hell, everyone knew they didn't like the Jews so how is it news? Why is it worth paying attention to or something to be concerned about.

So yes, you would have made an excellent Nazi. Well, maybe not a Nazi, you'd just be one of the "good" Germans that did nothing and didn't care because it didn't effect you.[/QUOTE]


I am going to say no for being a good German or Nazi, I dont know how the Nazi party would have liked a JEW to join their cause. Just seems like something they would be against. So next time you talk about people hating Jews realize that there are Jews on this board that have been on the end of that hatred. But people like you spread the hate, and the people who are on the recieving end of it are still preach tolerance. You are naieve if you think I am not concerned about it, but should Israelis/Jews live their lives in fear because of it, that is just idiotic. Also using force will only make people hate Jews more. So unless you have the million dollar solution why dont you stop talking about things you have no idea about.
 
[quote name='Quillion']How different is this from the "Evil Empire", and "Running Dogs of the Imperialists" rhetoric thrown about during the cold war? We learned to live in peace with Russia, normalized relations with China, etc. Who's to say that Iran won't do the same with Israel? A free and Democratic Iraq would be a major step in the right direction.[/QUOTE]

because, unlike US relations with China and Russia, which was more of a socio-economic stalemate, this is an ethnic, cultural and Religious affair that dates back many hundreds of years ago.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']because, unlike US relations with China and Russia, which was more of a socio-economic stalemate, this is an ethnic, cultural and Religious affair that dates back many hundreds of years ago.[/QUOTE]

I was asking how the rhetoric was different. Will the more liberal portions of the Iranian population support this same viewpoint? I think the hatred doesn't run as deep as it appears.

That may be the optimist in me though.
 
[quote name='Quillion']I was asking how the rhetoric was different. Will the more liberal portions of the Iranian population support this same viewpoint? I think the hatred doesn't run as deep as it appears.

That may be the optimist in me though.[/QUOTE]

The koran preaches hatred of the Jews.
2:61 Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations

There's a lot more where this came from.

Also, I'm wiling to bet that dialogue does not exist between the countries like it did between the US and Russia and China.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']The koran preaches hatred of the Jews.
2:61 Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations

There's a lot more where this came from.

Also, I'm wiling to bet that dialogue does not exist between the countries like it did between the US and Russia and China.[/QUOTE]



actually Jews and Muslims had a pretty good relationship until the late 19th early 20th century, reference see Muslim Spain, before the crusaders came and killed both.
 
It also speaks of loving the Christians and Jews, because they share the same God. I'll need to find the passage, my Quran is at home.

The Christian Bible also speaks of killing unbelievers, and despite my unfamiliarity with the Torah, I would wager a dime against a dollar that it shares some of the same passages.

There's more to religion than the holy texts. It's naive to think that a people can't rise above the petty racism of the past.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']actually Jews and Muslims had a pretty good relationship until the late 19th early 20th century, reference see Muslim Spain, before the crusaders came and killed both.[/QUOTE]

12th century

http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_44_-_The_Jews_of_Spain.asp

[quote name='Quillion']There's more to religion than the holy texts. It's naive to think that a people can't rise above the petty racism of the past.[/QUOTE]

So long as preachers, rabbis and clerics continue to live by the book, they will work by the book. In a group as arcane as the monotheistic religions, I doubt there will be much of a movement to tear itself away from the koran.
 
There are no historical ties or relations between Iran and Israel. During the Cold War the US and USSR at least were genuinely afraid of one another and did have diplomatic ties dating to WW II. The relationship may have been hostile and confrontational but they two sides retained full diplomatic relations. The same is more or less true of China. There's no way a truly hostile relationship exists between the US and China or we'd forbid American countries investing in and doing business in China and eliminate exports from them as opposed to granting them MFN status. The same is not true of Iran and Israel.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']which is before the 19th century i believe.[/QUOTE]

The cruel muslim leader came into power in the 12th century. Mulim antagonism occured before the 19th century:

[font=TREBUCHET, ARIAL, HELVETICA]The Jewish paradise in Spain ended abruptly when a cruel Muslim Berber Dynasty -- Almohades -- came to power in the 12th century. When Almohades seized southern Spain, they gave the Jews three choices: covert to Islam, leave, or die.[/font]
Click to expand...
 
The Jewish paradise in Spain ended abruptly when a cruel Muslim Berber Dynasty -- Almohades -- came to power in the 12th century. When Almohades seized southern Spain, they gave the Jews three choices: covert to Islam, leave, or die.

Wow, now they've reduced it to convert or die. Such a wonderful tolerant religion.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']The Jewish paradise in Spain ended abruptly when a cruel Muslim Berber Dynasty -- Almohades -- came to power in the 12th century. When Almohades seized southern Spain, they gave the Jews three choices: covert to Islam, leave, or die.

Wow, now they've reduced it to convert or die. Such a wonderful tolerant religion.[/QUOTE]

Notice that word that comes before Muslim? Thats what us big people like to call an adjective. It's used to describe the noun that follows it (A noun is a person, place, thing or idea). This adjective is stating that this particular Muslim leader was cruel. That means he was mean. Its like me calling you a fucking dipshit. You're not just a dipshit- you're a fucking dipshit.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']The Jewish paradise in Spain ended abruptly when a cruel Muslim Berber Dynasty -- Almohades -- came to power in the 12th century. When Almohades seized southern Spain, they gave the Jews three choices: covert to Islam, leave, or die.

Wow, now they've reduced it to convert or die. Such a wonderful tolerant religion.[/QUOTE]

The Inquisition (Let's begin)
The Inquisition (Look out sin)
We have a mission to convert the Jews (Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew)
We're gonna teach them wrong from right.
We're gonna help them see the light
and make an offer that they can't refuse. (That those Jews just can't refuse)
Confess, don't be boring.
Say yes, don't be dull.
A fact you're ignoring:
It's better to lose your skull cap than your skull (oy oy gevalt!)
The Inquisition (what a show)
The Inquisition (here we go)
We know you're wishin' that we'd go away.
But the Inquisition's here and it's here to stay!

I guess muslims were not the only one...
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']I guess muslims were not the only one...[/QUOTE]

When was the last time a christian leader of a country decided to attend a conference to end zionism and Israel?
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark'] I would
think that
this all
qualifes as
very cruel.
Wouldn't you agree?

Of course I guarandamntee you won't look through those links to learn the definition of cruel does indeed apply. Why? Because if I'm a fucking dipshit you're the pot calling the kettle black.[/QUOTE]

You can't take isolated incidents or the beliefs of radicals as representative of a much larger group.

Some Republicans may believe that segragation should be reinstated, and have gone around vandalizing black churches, businesses, etc. Does that mean the Republican party as a whole wants segragation, of course not.

Or an even better example would be the people who blow up abortion clinics or kill doctors who perform abortions. These people likely believe they are following the word of God, but they represent a tiny minority within the group.
 
[quote name='evanft']You can't take isolated incidents or the beliefs of radicals as representative of a much larger group.[/QUOTE]

You can take the belief of radicals as representative of an ever expanding group.

Anyways, there are plenty of large groups of anti-west/israel groups. For instance, a significantly large portion of the pakistani population was very pro-taliban/anti-us.
 
Now, imagine a U.S. President or Israeli PM holding or attending a "World Without Islam" conference, attending it, being a keynote speaker and having this quote appear in the world press. We sit and shrug and go "Meh, it's just Iran." meanwhile they work on an atomic program of dubious nature and make statements like this.
Click to expand...

It really does a disservice to the jewish people to label all anti zionists as jew haters, anti semites etc. All it does is legitimize actual racists since you lump them with mere anti zionists.

I'm not saying the iranian president isn't anti semitic, it's just most people who use that term don't distinguish between anti semitism and anti zionism. All that does is play into the hands of real anti semites.

Also, jews did much better in moorish spain than they did in neighboring christian areas. While never treated equally, southern spain became an asylum for persecuted jews. You were referring to a particularly radical group that gained control, but even then that group was not as bad as the christian spanish that later gained control. Even those who converted to christianity were still persecuted, as they were often believed to be jews in secret.

[quote name='capitalist_mao']The cruel muslim leader came into power in the 12th century. Mulim antagonism occured before the 19th century:[/QUOTE]

Historically muslims have had a much better relationship with jews than christians have had with jews. Tensions increased when they essentially came under the control of european christians. As often happens in other cultures, when a people feel powerless they revert inward, become more conservative, and start looking for enemies. It became worse when Israel appeared on the map. Right or wrong, Israel is viewed as essentially a modern day colonial state.

Every religious book attacks other religions at one point or another, and almost every one contradicts themselves on that subject. Islam is no different. There's no end to how many christian abuses, done in the name of god, we will excuse. The reason for this is we possess a deeper understanding of christianity, and are able to distinguish between genuinely christian acts, and acts based on little more than hatred. Most people don't have enough understanding of islam to do that.

Also, saying there are anti-west/israeli groups isn't exactly the same as saying they're all radical. You'd found a much higher percentage in the middle east who fit that description than the radical one.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']You can take the belief of radicals as representative of an ever expanding group.

Anyways, there are plenty of large groups of anti-west/israel groups. For instance, a significantly large portion of the pakistani population was very pro-taliban/anti-us.[/QUOTE]

Well then you're just looking at an axpanding group of radicals.
 
[quote name='evanft']You can't take isolated incidents or the beliefs of radicals as representative of a much larger group.

Some Republicans may believe that segragation should be reinstated, and have gone around vandalizing black churches, businesses, etc. Does that mean the Republican party as a whole wants segragation, of course not.

Or an even better example would be the people who blow up abortion clinics or kill doctors who perform abortions. These people likely believe they are following the word of God, but they represent a tiny minority within the group.[/QUOTE]

I call absolute bull shit on this claim.

Find me groups of Republicans that believe segregation should be reinstated or are vandalizing black churches and businesses.

Talk about unfounded bigotry.
 
Its a prime example of the sqeeky wheel getting the grease.

Tonight at nine on Nine News:

100 million muslims pray five times a day and do nothing eventful to stand out.

-vs-

1 radical muslim says kill all the Jews!

What headline would they go with? What would the public rather hear about?

[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark'] I would
think that
this all
qualifes as
very cruel.
Wouldn't you agree?

Of course I guarandamntee you won't look through those links to learn the definition of cruel does indeed apply. Why? Because if I'm a fucking dipshit you're the pot calling the kettle black.[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I call absolute bull shit on this claim.

Find me groups of Republicans that believe segregation should be reinstated or are vandalizing black churches and businesses.

Talk about unfounded bigotry.[/QUOTE]

David Duke is a republican and the founder of the NAAWP (national association for advancement of white people), founded when he resigned from the klan. He was elected to the lousiana house, and garnered almost 40% (and a majority of whites) in the run off vote when he ran for governor. He also garnered over 40% in a senate race, a race in which some republicans, disgusted with duke, promoted his democrat challenger. His political career seemed to end in the second half of the 90's.

You can read an article he wrote, in 2004, about "one more victim of integration": http://www.davidduke.com/index.php?p=21
 
Correction: President of the Islamic Republic of Iran calls for the destruction of Israel. You're going to dismiss this as some radical Muslim?

You know the guy in charge of 350,000 regular army soldiers, 1,600 main battle tanks, 3,000 pieces of artillery, 500 ballistic missiles capable of being equipped with chemical, biological and nuclear warheads, 450 modern combat aircraft, 100,000 air force members, 14,500 sailors, modern diesel/electric submarines oh.... and an atomic research program of unknown intent. Source: globalsecurity.org.

Yeah, he's just some nut job standing on the corner or some geocities website creator with no power just ranting against the Jews.

Do you get dumber as the weeks and months go by?

[quote name='alonzomourning23']David Duke is a republican and the founder of the NAAWP (national association for advancement of white people), founded when he resigned from the klan. He was elected to the lousiana house, and garnered almost 40% (and a majority of whites) in the run off vote when he ran for governor. He also garnered over 40% in a senate race, a race in which some republicans, disgusted with duke, promoted his democrat challenger. His political career seemed to end in the second half of the 90's.

You can read an article he wrote, in 2004, about "one more victim of integration": http://www.davidduke.com/index.php?p=21[/QUOTE]

You'll notice the part that that Republicans openly endorsed and promoted his Democratic challenger. Of course you just defeated your own argument by stating that but....
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Correction: President of the Islamic Republic of Iran calls for the destruction of Israel. You're going to dismiss this as some radical Muslim?

You know the guy in charge of 350,000 regular army soldiers, 1,600 main battle tanks, 3,000 pieces of artillery, 500 ballistic missiles capable of being equipped with chemical, biological and nuclear warheads, 450 modern combat aircraft, 100,000 air force members, 14,500 sailors, modern diesel/electric submarines oh.... and an atomic research program of unknown intent. Source: globalsecurity.org.

Yeah, he's just some nut job standing on the corner or some geocities website creator with no power just ranting against the Jews.

Do you get dumber as the weeks and months go by?



You'll notice the part that that Republicans openly endorsed and promoted his Democratic challenger. Of course you just defeated your own argument by stating that but....[/QUOTE]

No I did not, I presented a more accurate picture. I did not attempt to label all republicans as racist and believers in segregation, but his showing asserts that some groups of them are. That's what you asked for.
 
You listed one guy. Hell, I can list one Democrat who's a former Grand Kliegal of the Ku Klux Klan and not only isn't disavowed by Democrats but loved, cherished, valued and supported for the better part of 6 decades.

B001210.jpg


So am I to assume now that while Republicans disavow openly racist members running for office Democrats embrace theirs as a mark of diversity?

Now, where are those marauding groups of Republicans terrorizing blacks we've been told exist?
 
Unfortunately the comparison is a poor one. Byrd has denounced his racist past repeatedly, and his positions and voting record back that up. Whether he has truly done that in his heart is essentially just a point of interest, since he advocates (by votes) non racism in the senate. That was hardly the case for duke when he was running (or if he runs again). Also, democrats do not hold up byrd, he's just useful sometimes, and sometimes he's ignored. It all depends on what he says or does at the moment.

Also, david duke is a bit worse anyway. He was the klan leader who tried to reform the klans image, by making them more respectable and doing away with violent acts and rhetoric (even if it was only in words, not in practice). He still actively supports white supremacy, and states that his current organizations essentially have the same goal as the klan.

Besides, duke's organizations and supporters show that he is not just a lone man, and there are many similar republicans, at least in louisiana.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Historically muslims have had a much better relationship with jews than christians have had with jews. Tensions increased when they essentially came under the control of european christians. As often happens in other cultures, when a people feel powerless they revert inward, become more conservative, and start looking for enemies. It became worse when Israel appeared on the map. Right or wrong, Israel is viewed as essentially a modern day colonial state.

Every religious book attacks other religions at one point or another, and almost every one contradicts themselves on that subject. Islam is no different. There's no end to how many christian abuses, done in the name of god, we will excuse. The reason for this is we possess a deeper understanding of christianity, and are able to distinguish between genuinely christian acts, and acts based on little more than hatred. Most people don't have enough understanding of islam to do that.

Also, saying there are anti-west/israeli groups isn't exactly the same as saying they're all radical. You'd found a much higher percentage in the middle east who fit that description than the radical one.[/QUOTE]

Fortunately, the cruel christian leadership stereotype has been relegated to religious nut extremists who watch Falwell and Roberts and picket abortion clinics.

Unfortunately, cruel muslim autocracies still exist. WHich is the point. Islam is an extremely intolerant religion on many levels (non-believers and women, especially). The fact of the matter is that the governments (or lack thereof) in many islamic countries are guided by strict adherence to these doctrines (take Saudi Arabia, for example). Non-Muslim minorities in many of the Islamic countries are persecuted to various extents (take Pakistan, for example. the Sikhs left, because of the Islamic rule that followed partition in 1947). Islam even tears apart Muslims! Pakistani rulers tried to use Islam to make the country better (if you're a better Muslim, we will get along), however, that even prompted arguments and dissent within the ranks of muslims from different sects (Shia vs Sunni vs other) trying to foist their version of Islam on to the other sects.

The point is that current day muslim rule is either very unstable, or very harsh in most countries. There are a few countries that aren't quite so harsh or unstable, such as Maldives, but you still can't overlook the instability of countries like Pakistan and the harsh autocratic rule of countries like Saudi Arabia.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']Fortunately, the cruel christian leadership stereotype has been relegated to religious nut extremists who watch Falwell and Roberts and picket abortion clinics.

Unfortunately, cruel muslim autocracies still exist. WHich is the point. Islam is an extremely intolerant religion on many levels (non-believers and women, especially). The fact of the matter is that the governments (or lack thereof) in many islamic countries are guided by strict adherence to these doctrines (take Saudi Arabia, for example). Non-Muslim minorities in many of the Islamic countries are persecuted to various extents (take Pakistan, for example. the Sikhs left, because of the Islamic rule that followed partition in 1947). Islam even tears apart Muslims! Pakistani rulers tried to use Islam to make the country better (if you're a better Muslim, we will get along), however, that even prompted arguments and dissent within the ranks of muslims from different sects (Shia vs Sunni vs other) trying to foist their version of Islam on to the other sects.

The point is that current day muslim rule is either very unstable, or very harsh in most countries. There are a few countries that aren't quite so harsh or unstable, such as Maldives, but you still can't overlook the instability of countries like Pakistan and the harsh autocratic rule of countries like Saudi Arabia.[/QUOTE]

Well many islamic countries, such as Iran, are stable without being as harsh as countries such as saudi arabia (Iran at least allows political opposition and semi democracy). You also need to look at islam relative to other religions. For example, finding it strange that something provokes dissent among islamic groups is like finding it strange that there is dissent between protestants and catholic. It's not strange at all.

But Islam is no more intolerant than any other religion. Other religion were tolerated more by muslims than by christians, historically. Islam, as originally intended and preached by muhammad (and lessening as time past), treated women much better than the other major faiths. The subordination of women has more to do with the culture of certain areas becoming dominant, and less to do with islam itself. You are getting caught up in its extremist elements, which are usually heavily influenced by cultural, not religious, practices. The burka being a perfect example of this. Many practices are justified after the fact, meaning people look to religious texts to justify certain actions they want to take. This happens in every religion, and can be used to justify virtually any action. Though one area where islam has remained extremely tolerant, relative to other religions, is race. The most important thing is if you're a muslim. Malcom X even commented on this on his pilgramige to mecca, and the acceptance muslims showed of all races was one of the reasons he turned against the nation of Islam and black supremacism.

The amount of extremism in islamic countries is not as widespread as made out to be. This is partly due to ignorance, and partly due to how vocal the extremists are. But this has happened the world over, whenever a culture feels threatened it tends to look inward and toward religion. This happened in europe, this happened in China (though minus the religion part), and this is currently happening in africa and the middle east.

There's also the issue of blaming every conflict that muslims are involved in on muslims, and on their religion. You may have a war between primarily muslims and primarily christians in Africa, but many people are going to say it's just another case of those barbaric muslims, regardless of the real causes or reasons for the conflict.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Though one area where islam has remained extremely tolerant, relative to other religions, is race. The most important thing is if you're a muslim. Malcom X even commented on this on his pilgramige to mecca, and the acceptance muslims showed of all races was one of the reasons he turned against the nation of Islam and black supremacism. [/QUOTE]

First off, they don't look just at whether or not they're a muslim, but which sect of islam they follow. There is a LOT of tension between the different sects of Islam.

Second, while they may just look at being someone as being a muslim, there is a lot of discrimination against non-muslims.

These are both big problems.

[quote name='alonzomourning23']There's also the issue of blaming every conflict that muslims are involved in on muslims, and on their religion. You may have a war between primarily muslims and primarily christians in Africa, but many people are going to say it's just another case of those barbaric muslims, regardless of the real causes or reasons for the conflict.[/QUOTE]

If you're refering to Sudan, it is the Arab Muslims fault. Since Sudan's Arab controlled government is arming Arab Muslim militia groups to go attack/rape/kill black christians.

[quote name='alonzomourning23']But Islam is no more intolerant than any other religion. Other religion were tolerated more by muslims than by christians, historically. Islam, as originally intended and preached by muhammad (and lessening as time past), treated women much better than the other major faiths. The subordination of women has more to do with the culture of certain areas becoming dominant, and less to do with islam itself. You are getting caught up in its extremist elements, which are usually heavily influenced by cultural, not religious, practices. The burka being a perfect example of this. Many practices are justified after the fact, meaning people look to religious texts to justify certain actions they want to take. This happens in every religion, and can be used to justify virtually any action. Though one area where islam has remained extremely tolerant, relative to other religions, is race. The most important thing is if you're a muslim. Malcom X even commented on this on his pilgramige to mecca, and the acceptance muslims showed of all races was one of the reasons he turned against the nation of Islam and black supremacism.[/QUOTE]

While you may be right that all religions do that, we don't have many autocratic country leaders doing that, except for the Muslim leaders.
 
I think the US supports Israel way too much. Israel is one of the main reasons we have so many enemies in the Middle East.
Why do we support them so much?
Because Jews control our government. Arfuably the most powerful person in the WORLD is the fed reserve baord chairman. Greensopan is a jew, and so is the new one. What a coincidence
No politician dares to go against Israel because, he/she will be ANTI SEMITIC. What a bunch of bs
 
Holy fucking shit PAD. You can't even begin to generalize all muslims by the actions of one asshole. If you have actually ever read the Quran, or been within 30 feet of a copy of it, which I'm sure you haven't, you'd understand that Islam is perhaps even the most peaceful of the religions. It praises Jews and Christians for following God's word and talks about how they are great people - "people of the book" they are called. Just because many muslims today have ignored the passages of the Quran doesn't mean the entire religion is violent. There are tons of insane Christians too - but do we generalize the entire religion over them? fuck no.

DIE PLZ KTHXBYE. And don't stereotype millions of people you know nothing about.

And if you haven't already guessed, my family is partly Iranian, and I've been there. Most of the population has no problem with America - though they hate George Bush, like most of the world - yet they're trapped under a terrible Government who came to power in the 70s under unfulfilled promises (Khomani promised a more just nation, etc, etc), and now they're supressed by it. They're culture is INFUSED will all KINDS of American stuff - movies, music, video games, etc are very popular there - not to mention majority of the population there is under 25, and the youth have no issues with America.

So please, go the fuck away before you assume you know everything.
 
[quote name='shadow711711']I think the US supports Israel way too much. Israel is one of the main reasons we have so many enemies in the Middle East.
Why do we support them so much?
Because Jews control our government. Arfuably the most powerful person in the WORLD is the fed reserve baord chairman. Greensopan is a jew, and so is the new one. What a coincidence
No politician dares to go against Israel because, he/she will be ANTI SEMITIC. What a bunch of bs[/QUOTE]

Mossad also caused 9/11 to give us reason to attack middle east or Islamic countries, too. Right?
 
[quote name='SilverPaw750']It praises Jews and Christians for following God's word and talks about how they are great people - "people of the book" they are called.[/QUOTE]

Passages from the koran:

2:61 Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations.

2:96 Jews are the greediest of all humankind.

4:51 Jews and Christians believe in idols and false deities, yet they claim to be more rightly guided than Muslims.
4:52 "Those (Christians and Jews) are they whom Allah hath cursed."
4:55 Hell is sufficient for their burning.

5:12-13 Allah has cursed the Jews and hardened their hearts. Nearly all of them are treacherous.

5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them.
5:53 Jews and Christians are losers. (I kid you not on this one)
5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil-livers.
5:63 Evil is the handiwork of the rabbis and priests
5:64 Allah has cast enmity and hatred among the Jews
5:67 Allah does not guide disbelievers
5:72 Christians will be burned in the Fire
5:73 Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom
5:86 Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire

:roll: The Koran says a lot of things
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']Passages from the koran:

2:61 Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations.

2:96 Jews are the greediest of all humankind.

4:51 Jews and Christians believe in idols and false deities, yet they claim to be more rightly guided than Muslims.
4:52 "Those (Christians and Jews) are they whom Allah hath cursed."
4:55 Hell is sufficient for their burning.

5:12-13 Allah has cursed the Jews and hardened their hearts. Nearly all of them are treacherous.

5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them.
5:53 Jews and Christians are losers. (I kid you not on this one)
5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil-livers.
5:63 Evil is the handiwork of the rabbis and priests
5:64 Allah has cast enmity and hatred among the Jews
5:67 Allah does not guide disbelievers
5:72 Christians will be burned in the Fire
5:73 Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom
5:86 Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire

:roll: The Koran says a lot of things[/QUOTE]
I didn't say it didn't say they were wrong, but it does tell you to respect "people of the book" for acknoledging God :roll:
 
[quote name='SilverPaw750']I didn't say it didn't say they were wrong, but it does tell you to respect "people of the book" for acknoledging God :roll:[/QUOTE]

By "people of the book", I'd be willing to bet that it means people who believe in the Koran. Anyways, those quotes as well as the hundreds of other quotes like

"Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom" (2:6)

make me think that the Koran is a less than peaceful religion. Maybe it has a relative peacefulness in comparison to Christianity, but it certainly isn't all the peaceful now.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']By "people of the book", I'd be willing to bet that it means people who believe in the Koran. Anyways, those quotes as well as the hundreds of other quotes like

"Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom" (2:6)

make me think that the Koran is a less than peaceful religion. Maybe it has a relative peacefulness in comparison to Christianity, but it certainly isn't all the peaceful now.[/QUOTE]

Thats one thing that bothers me - people are quick to point out violent passages in the Quran, but neglect the large amount of violence and hatred in the Bible.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']First off, they don't look just at whether or not they're a muslim, but which sect of islam they follow. There is a LOT of tension between the different sects of Islam.[/quote]

Like I said, it's like protestants and catholics. But, in referrence to Mecca, it's essentially just muslims. The point of that statement was though that the racism, which can be justified by the bible if you are so inclined, is much less prominent.

Second, while they may just look at being someone as being a muslim, there is a lot of discrimination against non-muslims.
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That's the same with every religion though. The only difference is some religions have taken a backseat to secularism, partly as a result of there culture and religion not coming under attack. As you can see in this country, there is renewed call for religion in public life as many feel christianity is under attack.


If you're refering to Sudan, it is the Arab Muslims fault. Since Sudan's Arab controlled government is arming Arab Muslim militia groups to go attack/rape/kill black christians.
Click to expand...

I'm referring to conflicts as a whole, not any individual conflicts. I wasn't thinking of Sudan when I made that comment.

Though, since Sudan was mentioned, there has been fighting back and forth, between both sides, and there have been muslim communities which are under attack, and christians involved in the attacking. It's not the clear cut, christian/muslim conflict some make it out to be. The conflict has more to do with nomadic tribes against settled farmers, both faced with vanishing farm land. While sometimes religion is used (as in any conflict, such as u.s./Iraq), the conflict itself has virtually nothing to do with religion.

Here's a good, short article on who the janjaweed are http://slate.msn.com/id/2104210/.

Here's a bbc article on why the stereotypes of the conflict are wrong http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3737566.stm. Particularly of interest is the 93 year old mosque leader who fled his village:

We were living in peace, but this year, people from the Fur and Zagawa came and raided our village four times.

When they came for a fifth time, we chased them back but they returned and attacked us.

We succeeded in beating them off, but then our guns ran out of bullets.

After that, the attackers burnt our village and everything in it.
Click to expand...
While you may be right that all religions do that, we don't have many autocratic country leaders doing that, except for the Muslim leaders.
Click to expand...

There are hindu leaders like that, except they are provincial leaders (check out the BJP and there role in many violent riots against muslims). The christian ones don't usually seem to hold government office. For example, the LRA (lord's resistance army) in uganda, uses cannibalism, rape etc. and abducts children for soldiers. They want a government based on the 10 commandments
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']

make me think that the Koran is a less than peaceful religion. Maybe it has a relative peacefulness in comparison to Christianity, but it certainly isn't all the peaceful now.[/QUOTE]

Make islam the world power and christianity the one that's dominated and impoverished and you wouldn't be saying that.
 
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