Iranian President Calls For Israel to Be Destroyed: "World Without Zionism" Meeting

[quote name='defender']I think most of the VS forums is based on generalizations. It's not like I stated ALL muslims this or ALL blah blah that. Generalizations in and of itself are totally acceptable imho. Everyone uses them and it's part of labelling. If you label something that means you are generalizing.

Nice try but terrible comeback.

How about some solid examples of Muslim leaders that appose the violence and terrorism?

Also you never replied about your experience first hand with Muslims? I know first hand that not all muslims agree with the terrorists. I know first hand that there are muslims that do believe that America must be destroyed. I know first hand more Muslims that hate Americans than love us.

What's your first hand experience? Do you feel in general that Muslims are fans of Americans? What's your opinion on this? Do you like to just be politically correct and pretend everyone is your friend and a hug will solve all our problems in the world?[/QUOTE]

I have 4 or 5 muslim friends and they love America, they do not want any harm to come to America because its their home. Most were born here, but they are all Americans and though they might not agree with every US policy they would rather be here then any place else. Plus you have no idea how bad it was for them after 9/11 getting harrased openly on the street by people. People driving by them and saying things. People staring at them as they walked by. They were being treated like crap for something they had nothing to do with. Certain people on this board would probably do the same thing. That is not my America, America is the home of the land of the free, not the place where you should be afraid to go outside. If that wasnt bad enough my Indian American friends recieved similar treatment even though they arent even from the same region. That shows the idiocy of the people with the generalizations.

I am going to say many groups of people arent fans of America right now. Does that mean we should harass french people here, or how about venezualians. Just because group dont like us does not mean the whole doesnt like us. I am not politically correct with everything but when people talk poorly about my friends or their people I stand up for it.

Ohh and by the way your analogy a post back is extremely false [quote name='defender']So by your statement you are saying it's not ok to hate the nazis? Heck not all Nazis were bad right?[/QUOTE]

This is you generalizing Muslims again. If you were a member of the Nazi party by choice you are bad and obviously it is fine to hate them. But you are lumping the muslims that hate americans in one category. Nice job in putting millions of people in one column. Muslims equal Nazis. Is like saying Americans equal Nazis during 18th and 19th century when it comes to Native Americans. You could say that many American disliked and were cruel to Native Americans but to say all were like that would be ignorant, but I guess ignorance is bliss.
 
Well you just don't get it and that's fine. I ain't here to teach people or event to really persuade anyone. I just like a good debate and this topic I think had reached it's conclusion.

Of course I won all the arguements.

:)
 
[quote name='defender']So by your statement you are saying it's not ok to hate the nazis? Heck not all Nazis were bad right? Yeah..PAD is spreading the hate alright. We should be loving and understanding toward the muslim population even though many/most of it's leaders are preaching the death of America and Isreal in their mosques daily. Yeah we should jump for joy and proclaim a national holiday..like "Hug a Muslim day".

Hey I have buddies who were Muslim. While they didn't come out and tell me they hated America or me...they would never say what these terrorist are doing is wrong. I am sure within the Muslim culture that anti-americanism, anti-christian, and anti-semetism is prevelant. I really don't see anything from their culture on the contrary. Also how many of you actually live or work near large muslim populations? I wonder how many of you truely have experience dealing with Muslims. How many of you took a cab in NYC the same week as 9/11 and had a Muslim cab driver tell you that 9/11 was justice and America deserved it.

hmm...and it's PAD that preaches hatred??? please....

Understand that he is pointing out the truths of the Muslim culture and only reporting what is already being reported by other agencies. Most of the time PAD has started threads simply with a news story from another source. Of course this enflames many of you bleeding heart liberals that he points there stories out and it baits you like a bass to a worm.[/QUOTE]

You already asked something to that effect, about who actually has lived near a large muslim population. Yet, when someone responds they have and haven't encountered the things you claim you don't seem to care.

PAD uses news stories involving muslims (or someone with an islamic name) in way that they are not intended to be used, and assuming a meaning that they do not have.

Here's a list of denouncements from american muslim, and some world muslim groups:

http://www.cair-net.org/html/911statements.html

It's a little long, but you'll probably ignore it anyway.
 
Ah CAIR.... such an easy target.

Los Angeles (10/28/98) - CAIR is calling on Los Angeles-based KCOP Television, Inc., channel 13, to remove billboards deemed offensive to Muslims. The billboards, reportedly seen in Los Angeles, Orange County, San Gabriel, and other cities, feature a picture of Usama Bin Laden with the headline "the sworn enemy."
Link

The same year, CAIR denied bin Laden's responsibility for the twin East African embassy bombings. As Hooper saw it, those explosions resulted from some vague "misunderstandings of both sides." (A New York court, however, blamed bin Laden's side alone for the embassy blasts.)

In 2001, CAIR denied his culpability for the Sept. 11 massacre, saying only that "if [note the "if"] Osama bin Laden was behind it, we condemn him by name." (Only in December was CAIR finally embarrassed into acknowledging his role.)

CAIR consistently defends other militant Islamic terrorists too. The conviction of the perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing it deemed "a travesty of justice." The conviction of Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind sheikh who planned to blow up New York City landmarks, it called a "hate crime." The extradition order for suspected Hamas terrorist Mousa Abu Marook it labeled "anti-Islamic" and "anti-American."

Not surprisingly, CAIR also backs those who finance terrorism. When President Bush closed the Holy Land Foundation in December for collecting money he said was "used to support the Hamas terror organization," CAIR decried his action as "unjust" and "disturbing."

CAIR even includes at least one person associated with terrorism in its own ranks. On Feb. 2, 1995, U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White named Siraj Wahhaj as one of the "unindicted persons who may be alleged as co-conspirators" in the attempt to blow up New York City monuments. Yet CAIR deems him "one of the most respected Muslim leaders in America" and includes him on its advisory board.

For these and other reasons, the FBI's former chief of counterterrorism, Steven Pomerantz, concludes that "CAIR, its leaders and its activities effectively give aid to international terrorist groups."

Nor is terrorism the only disturbing aspect of CAIR's record. Other problems include:

Intimidating moderate Muslims. In at least two cases (Hisham Kabbani and Khalid Durán), CAIR has defamed moderate Muslims who reject its extremist agenda, leading to death threats against them.

Embracing murderers. CAIR responded to the arrest and conviction of Jamil Al-Amin (the former H. Rap Brown) by praising him, raising funds for him and then denying his guilt after his conviction for the murder of an Atlanta policeman. Likewise with Ahmad Adnan Chaudhry of San Bernardino, Calif.: Disregarding his conviction for attempting murder, CAIR declared him "innocent" and set up a defense fund for him.

Promoting anti-Semitism. The head of CAIR's Los Angeles office, Hussam Ayloush, routinely uses the term "zionazi" when referring to Israelis. CAIR co-hosted an event in May 1998 at which an Egyptian militant Islamic leader, Wagdi Ghunaym, called Jews the "descendants of the apes."

Aggressive ambitions. As reported by the San Ramon Valley Herald, CAIR Chairman Omar M. Ahmad told a crowd of California Muslims in July 1998, "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran . . . should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."
Link

Elashi founded CAIR’s Texas chapter sometime before October 2000. (CAIR-Texas first appeared as an affiliate on the CAIR national website at that time.) Therefore, it is evident Elashi was a high-ranking CAIR official at the time he committed the pro-terrorist crimes for which he was convicted.

Elashi's conviction is bad news for CAIR. Its ties with Elashi are too deep and the evidence of CAIR's complicity too obvious for CAIR to spin. For example, just after the Islamic terrorist attacks of 9/11, the CAIR website contained a section entitled, "What you can do for the victims of the WTC and Pentagon attacks," which solicited contributions to the "NY/DC Emergency Relief Fund." The only problem was, this so-called "Relief Fund" never existed. The link provided by CAIR led the would-be contributor directly to the Holy Land Foundation website. The Holy Land Foundation, a government-designated terrorist front group, was also shut down by the U.S. government for funding terrorism overseas. The trial of its leadership is scheduled to begin next year.
Link

Later that month, on September 25, 2001, CAIR changed the link to explicitly ask persons to “Donate through the Holy Land Foundation.” And in addition, CAIR added a new link to its site, soliciting persons to “Donate through the Global Relief Foundation.”

The Global Relief Foundation, like the Holy Land Foundation, was soon to be shut down by the U.S. government on terrorism related charges. As stated by the Treasury Department, “The Global Relief Foundation has connections to, has provided support for, and has provided assistance to Usama Bin Ladin, the al-Qaeda Network, and other known terrorist groups.”
Link

In September, Bassem Khafagi pled guilty to charges of making false statements on his visa application and bank fraud. He had been charged with funneling money to promote terrorist activities through the Islamic Assembly of North America (IANA), of which he was a founding member. The Washington Post reported in October that federal prosecutors described IANA's objective as the "dissemination of radical Islamic ideology, the purpose of which was indoctrination, recruitment of members and the instigation of acts of violence and terrorism." In January, the Syracuse Post-Standard revealed that Khafagi also had business ties to Rafil Dhafir, who has been accused of illegally sending money to Iraq. Dhafir is also a former vice president of IANA. Khafagi was sentenced to 10 months in prison and deported to Egypt. At the time of his arrest, Khafagi was a community affairs director of CAIR.
Link

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, must be a.....

CAIR is a terrorist empathizing group at best and fund raising front at worst.
 
So to counter you link to sites such as danielpipes, jihad watch and frontpagemag? I'm a terrorist sponsor to them. But, regardless, CAIR is not even worth debating, since maybe 4 of all those denouncements on that page come from CAIR. Plenty of non cair denouncements are listed.
 
[quote name='defender']PAD sure can do his homework. You gotta love a guy with enthusiasm.

PAD for president![/QUOTE]

His "research" includes conclusions drawn by very conservative websites like daniel pipes and frontpagemag, just as biased as left wing websites like indymedia and counterpunch. But, while he at least presented something for that one group, he did nothing to dispute any of the denouncements by any of the other organizations listed. About 90% of the denouncements he didn't even bother with.

I posted a laundry list of denouncements from multiple sources a while ago, which included the imam of mecca denouncing terrorism and extremism during the hajj. It's just easier to post one website.
 
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