Is America coming apart?

thrustbucket

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Is America coming apart?
Posted: September 10, 2009
by Pat Buchanan

Flying home from London, where the subject of formal debate on the 70th anniversary of World War II had been whether Winston Churchill was a liability or asset to the Free World, one arrives in the middle of a far more acrimonious national debate right here in the United States.

At issue: Should Barack Obama be allowed to address tens of millions of American children, inside their classrooms, during school hours?

Conservative talk-show hosts saw a White House scheme to turn public schools into indoctrination centers where the socialist ideology of Obama would be spoon-fed to captive audiences of children forced to listen to Big Brother -- and then do assignments on his sermon.

The liberal commentariat raged about right-wing paranoia.

Yet Byron York of the Washington Examiner dug back to 1991 to discover that, when George H.W. Bush went to Alice Deal Junior High to speak to America's school kids, the left lost it.

"The White House turned a Northwest Washington junior high classroom into a television studio and its students into props," railed the Washington Post. Education Secretary Lamar Alexander was called before a House committee. The National Education Association denounced Bush. And Congress ordered the General Accounting Office to investigate.

Obama's actual speech proved about as controversial as a Nancy Reagan appeal to eighth-graders to "Just say no!" to drugs.

Yet, the episode reveals the poisoned character of our politics.

We saw it earlier on display in August, when the crowds that came out for town hall meetings to oppose Obama's health-care plans were called "thugs," "fascists," "racists" and "evil-mongers" by national Democrats.

We see it as Rep. Joe Wilson shouts, "You lie!" at the president during his address to a joint session of Congress.

"You Lie!" Get the bumper sticker that immortalizes American opposition to Obama

We seem not only to disagree with each other more than ever, but to have come almost to detest one another. Politically, culturally, racially, we seem ever ready to go for each others' throats.

One half of America sees abortion as the annual slaughter of a million unborn. The other half regards the right-to-life movement as tyrannical and sexist.

Proponents of gay marriage see its adversaries as homophobic bigots. Opponents see its champions as seeking to elevate unnatural and immoral relationships to the sacred state of traditional marriage.

The question invites itself. In what sense are we one nation and one people anymore? For what is a nation if not a people of a common ancestry, faith, culture and language, who worship the same God, revere the same heroes, cherish the same history, celebrate the same holidays and share the same music, poetry, art and literature?

Yet, today, Mexican-Americans celebrate Cinco de Mayo, a skirmish in a French-Mexican war about which most Americans know nothing, which took place the same year as two of the bloodiest battles of our own Civil War: Antietam and Fredericksburg.

Christmas and Easter, the great holidays of Christendom, once united Americans in joy. Now we fight over whether they should even be mentioned, let alone celebrated, in our public schools.

Where we used to have classical, pop, country & Western and jazz music, now we have varieties tailored to specific generations, races and ethnic groups. Even our music seems designed to subdivide us.


One part of America loves her history, another reviles it as racist, imperialist and genocidal. Old heroes like Columbus, Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee are replaced by Dr. King and Cesar Chavez.

But the old holidays, heroes and icons endure, as the new have yet to put down roots in a recalcitrant Middle America.

We are not only more divided than ever on politics, faith and morality, but along the lines of class and ethnicity. Those who opposed Sonia Sotomayor for the Supreme Court and stood by Sgt. Crowley in the face-off with Harvard's Henry Louis Gates were called racists. But this time they did not back down. They threw the same vile word right back in the face of their accusers, and Barack Obama.

Consider but a few issues on which Americans have lately been bitterly divided: school prayer, the Ten Commandments, evolution, the death penalty, abortion, homosexuality, assisted suicide, affirmative action, busing, the Confederate battle flag, the Duke rape case, Terri Schiavo, Iraq, amnesty, torture.

Now it is death panels, global warming, "birthers" and socialism. If a married couple disagreed as broadly and deeply as Americans do on such basic issues, they would have divorced and gone their separate ways long ago. What is it that still holds us together?

The European-Christian core of the country that once defined us is shrinking, as Christianity fades, the birth rate falls and Third World immigration surges. Globalism dissolves the economic bonds, while the cacophony of multiculturalism displaces the old American culture.

"E pluribus unum" – out of many, one - was the national motto the men of '76 settled upon. One sees the pluribus. But where is the unum? One sees the diversity. But where is the unity?

Is America, too, breaking up?

I am far from a Buchanan fan but I enjoyed this article. Hits the nail on the head for the most part. It does feel like unity in this country is long gone.
 
All his examples of the contrasting viewpoints are oversimplified, obviously. But I understand the general point of the article. That said, considering human nature, we have a really civilized society that can disagree with eachother all the time over huge, contrasting issues.

Nobody does it better than us.
 
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United States of Canada
 
The country has never really had unity. It's always been a republic shaped by partisanship right from the start with the federalists like John Adams who wanted strong government to the other side with people like Jefferson wanting to limit power of the federal government.

The difference is the government used to consist completely of some of the most educated and smartest people in the world. Now the intelligentsia is frowned upon in many areas, and we end up electing low brow, inarticulate morons who seldom espouse anything more elegant than "You lie" or "Obama's a socialist" or the health care plan will lead to "death panels" etc. And morons like Sarah Palin are somehow supported fanatically in some political circles.

We're long past the days of intelligent, articulate debates over key issues, and have devolved to being governed largely by a bunch of rabble rousers who have no interest in doing anything other than opposing the other party at every turn and doing so through smears and lies rather than articulating their own plans and why they're a better option. And somehow being intelligent and well educated has became a negative in many circles in our society.
 
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I really hate all the false equivalency going on. I just sat through eight years of incompetence, but still championed the military and hoped for the best, even though I recognized they were just a tool of a small group of fat old white men who were clueless.

Meanwhile, my guy gets in office - and black dood - and people LOSE THEIR SHIT, talking about everything in biblical overtones with apocalyptic flavors. Suddenly they are all granted huge political insight, even though they didn't even know town hall meetings existed before last week.

You all had no problem with our country being fucked sideways for eight years, but eight months brought out all of this hatred suddenly?

Yar, we're divided, but quit pretending like both sides counterbalance each other. Half of us aren't even in this reality.
 
Buchanan's problem is that the narrative of history is finally balancing out and the hegemony of one group, his own, seems to be diminishing to him.

Apparently, if he had his way everyone would be happily ignorant of the fact that Christopher Colombus discovered nothing (natives, and the Vikings settled in America long before he arrived) and that his only achievement is kicking off the brutal commercial exploitation of another group of people.
 
No, it's all a bunch of hyped-up shit, but the hyped-up shit can lead to division that wasn't there in the first place as people become more polarized due to the crazy fuckers who get a lot of exposure.

Like healthcare, they're making a big fucking deal out of this shit using obvious fabrications because that leads to profits, but the side-effect is that it creates division that wasn't really there to start with.

The same goes for pretty much any other issue.
 
Please, this is nothing. Until one half of the country secedes from the union, it's just people disagreeing with each other.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Please, this is nothing. Until one half of the country secedes from the union, it's just people disagreeing with each other.[/QUOTE]

Yep.

And I've often seriously pondered whether we wouldn't be better off if there had been no civil war and two countries just formed.

Then we could have the more liberal north, the conservative south (who knows what would have happened to the west though) and people could live where ever the government and culture more suited them.

The country wouldn't be as big a super power so defense costs would probably be lower as we wouldn't get involved in as many military quagmires around the globe. The corollary to that is maybe WWII would have turned out for the other side....

But it's an interesting "what if" scenario to ponder.
 
[quote name='Strell']
You all had no problem with our country being fucked sideways for eight years, but eight months brought out all of this hatred suddenly?.[/QUOTE]
We are having the same things happen under Obama as under Bush. Just because the president changes doesn't mean there is any change. There isn't. It's all political theater. This country is falling apart, but not because of the reasons Pat Buchanan outlined.
 
God, Pat Buchanan is a disgusting man.

I remember during the whole Sotomayor debate, he was on Rachel Maddow. He was arguing that Sotomayor was unqualified, and that she was a product of affirmative action. Maddow was trying to ask how diversity was a bad thing. Buchanan talked about how this country was founded by white men, fought for by white men.

So white men apparently are the only ones entitled to anything in this country? What a disgusting person you are Pat.
 
[quote name='Strell']I really hate all the false equivalency going on. I just sat through eight years of incompetence, but still championed the military and hoped for the best, even though I recognized they were just a tool of a small group of fat old white men who were clueless.

Meanwhile, my guy gets in office - and black dood - and people LOSE THEIR SHIT, talking about everything in biblical overtones with apocalyptic flavors. Suddenly they are all granted huge political insight, even though they didn't even know town hall meetings existed before last week.

You all had no problem with our country being fucked sideways for eight years, but eight months brought out all of this hatred suddenly?

Yar, we're divided, but quit pretending like both sides counterbalance each other. Half of us aren't even in this reality.[/QUOTE]

So your saying that liberals never once held protests or critized the president when Bush was in office? They never once had a anti-war rally, or booed Bush, or have guests on a 24 hour news network say something negative or disagree with a policy, no blogger ever call him the devil or want him assassinated. Because that is a silly argument. I don't remember the media or an op ed ever having much good to say ever about the man.

I think you have to have thicker skin when people disagree with policies and not play the race card. Just because you worship him and his speeches make your pussy spray does not mean the average American is looking at what he proposes and saying " Gee, this may not be the best for my family, or I feel that policy X is not how I want things to be. Obama obviously won the popular vote and now that he's enacting so many policies that people disagree with his popularity is declining. You have to ask yourself, why is there more disapproval of him now then when he got elected? Did the whites who voted for him just realize he was black, well mulatto? Or did he DO something or SAY something which those who voted for him did not like? Where do you make the connection between race when it is clearly his politics that are sinking his ship. Maybe I'm naive, can you point to me where all this disagreement is over his race, because I hear people talk about issues, not race (although your "fat old white men" clearly shows your prejudice). Where is all the support from when he got elected, did they all move away or die, of course not, Obama is doing this to himself.

There is not riot in the streets, I haven't heard of assassination attempts, or violence. I have only heard of peaceful protests (yes there are the occasional nutjob) and debate which, depending on the person is civil for the most part. If you want 100% of the people to always agree and stand back and let there leader do things his way then good luck, try the Mushroom Kingdom.
 
You quoted me, giving you a second chance to read everything I wrote, and still managed to miss the entire damn point. That takes some commitment. Trustin' yer guts and instincts.

Mission accomplished. I hope there is an aircraft carrier near you to help celebrate your victory.

I'll just pick one (of your many) false point to harp on, which is that death threats are up 400%. That is provided by the Secret Service, and not some false talking point from Glenn Beck's blubbering chops. Hell, my brother in law is a principal not far from here, and when his school wanted to air the big scary "stay in school!" indoctrination speech, they got multiple calls from people, several of which were sprinkled with hateful racist rhetoric. I also think it's pretty hilarious when you see the same on Republican twitters, because they've managed to convince themselves that the darned libruls won't find them. So this thought that there is "peaceful disagreement" is pretty hilarious.

False equivalency, once again. Look it up. I think the interwebulons have dictionary sites. But, as we all know, dictionaries have a well known liberal bias.

Remember, yer the one who brought up "people disagree!!!!!!112121" and then began to put words in my mouth, all of which dotted with dumbass attempts at sounding mean.
 
[quote name='SpazX']

Like healthcare, they're making a big fucking deal out of this shit using obvious fabrications because that leads to profits, but the side-effect is that it creates division that wasn't really there to start with.

The same goes for pretty much any other issue.[/QUOTE]
Healthcare and/or what it becomes is 1/6th our nations GDP. At least.
It's also, unlike most issues, something that will affect absolutely every single American in some way..
So it's a pretty big fucking deal. What's said about it is a pretty big fucking deal. What ultimately is decided to do is a pretty big fucking deal.

[quote name='dmaul1114']Yep.

And I've often seriously pondered whether we wouldn't be better off if there had been no civil war and two countries just formed.

Then we could have the more liberal north, the conservative south (who knows what would have happened to the west though) and people could live where ever the government and culture more suited them.

The country wouldn't be as big a super power so defense costs would probably be lower as we wouldn't get involved in as many military quagmires around the globe. The corollary to that is maybe WWII would have turned out for the other side....

But it's an interesting "what if" scenario to ponder.[/QUOTE]
One of the few times I do agree with you. I ponder the same thing. A lot.

Where you will probably disagree though is that I actually think something like that is very possible; it's called States. If we reorganized things to make States more like countries in the EU, it would satisfy those divisive needs that you pointed out. A few states may need to merge in order to make it, but then we'd have a place for every American to live that can be with the like-minded.

That way you can find an East coast state that is full of snooty intellectuals and academics and I can find a Western state hopefully full of..... as little as possible. ;)

fuck the melting pot, it's boiled over.

[quote name='IRHari']God, Pat Buchanan is a disgusting man.

I remember during the whole Sotomayor debate, he was on Rachel Maddow. He was arguing that Sotomayor was unqualified, and that she was a product of affirmative action. Maddow was trying to ask how diversity was a bad thing. Buchanan talked about how this country was founded by white men, fought for by white men.

So white men apparently are the only ones entitled to anything in this country? What a disgusting person you are Pat.[/QUOTE]
Link please.
 
Quote Strell

Sorry I quoted you and read everything you wrote, I didn't want to ramble, oops you said I did. First let me finish something....nobody ever threw a shoe at him, called him stupid, wanted him impeached, had a crappy cartoon about a kid version of him that sucked on Comedy Central, had some flash game where something stupid with Bush happened, no comedian or SNL sketch ever happened etc.

Okay, I did read your post and how did I not address it? Your first two paragraphs talk about race in them and how everyone is going batshit disagreeing with Obama. Is that not what you said? Do you care to revise your statement. My point was that the country was just as divided when Bush was in office and did I give you enough examples? This has nothing to do with race, I only picked your post because you didn't elaborate on your reasoning and basically have no proof or reasoning for those who oppose Obama are racist or stupid people who don't live in this reality, other than that they disagree with you. I cited examples that Bush took a ton of shit from people and that plenty disagreed with him during his 8 years, just debate and provide proof or reasoning and don't resort to the race card, or that someone else is stupid LOL@###@LOL!!!! because you don't love Obama.

"Yar, we're divided, but quit pretending like both sides counterbalance each other. Half of us aren't even in this reality. "................Which half? The half that disagrees with you?




Never mind your recent retort. There are plenty of threats made to America in general all the time that affect me that I don't associate with race. Again, what does this have to do with him being Black? There have been quite a few assassination attempts on president's before who were all white in the past to both parties. You should seek a therapist for your white guilt.




Remember, yer the one who brought up "people disagree!!!!!!112121" and then began to put words in my mouth, all of which dotted with dumbass attempts at sounding mean.

...........I didn't put any words in your mouth, you are just a poor debater who can answer my questions and would rather mock me then explain your statement.
 
[quote name='jputahraptor']...........I didn't put any words in your mouth, you are just a poor debater who can answer my questions and would rather mock me then explain your statement.[/QUOTE]

You aren't worth debating.

Even if that wasn't the case you still would not be taken seriously for your sig if nothing else.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
Where you will probably disagree though is that I actually think something like that is very possible; it's called States. If we reorganized things to make States more like countries in the EU, it would satisfy those divisive needs that you pointed out. A few states may need to merge in order to make it, but then we'd have a place for every American to live that can be with the like-minded.

That way you can find an East coast state that is full of snooty intellectuals and academics and I can find a Western state hopefully full of..... as little as possible. ;)
[/QUOTE]

It wouldn't work as our states are too small. Just wouldn't work in an increasingly global society. If Europe is going to remain a key player in the global society, the EU will have to become a stronger power IMO. We're pretty much in a global economy now, unities as small as our states just couldn't compete with contries like China etc. now maybe if you mean have "states" meaning less than 50 and more like European countries and have something like the EU over them, maybe that could have worked. Have a Northeast, South east, north midwest, south midwest, north west and south west country. Those regions already feel like different countries to a large degree given how different the land, demographics and social cultures are.

As for the second part of your post, you can still find a state full of as little as possible--North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana etc. :D

And there are plenty of big, liberal cities I can live in and be happy with most of the culture.

So it's all a bit over blown as the federal government doesn't have that much impact on our daily lives. Income tax is about it for the most part. Otherwise we're much more impacted by our state, county and city laws and governments. So I think one can still be happy by just finding the state/city that suits them and staying out of national political issues as much as possible if it bothers them that much.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Healthcare and/or what it becomes is 1/6th our nations GDP. At least.
It's also, unlike most issues, something that will affect absolutely every single American in some way..
So it's a pretty big fucking deal. What's said about it is a pretty big fucking deal. What ultimately is decided to do is a pretty big fucking deal.[/QUOTE]

No matter what happens with healthcare the nation won't suddenly become communist russia or explode in hellfire. Every overreacting person just causes others to overreact.

Ultimately, if the act was passed as it is now, most shit would pretty much be the same. It's important to discuss, not overreact in random ideological spasms of hatred and ignorance. That's the problem.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It wouldn't work as our states are too small. Just wouldn't work in an increasingly global society. If Europe is going to remain a key player in the global society, the EU will have to become a stronger power IMO. We're pretty much in a global economy now, unities as small as our states just couldn't compete with contries like China etc. now maybe if you mean have "states" meaning less than 50 and more like European countries and have something like the EU over them, maybe that could have worked. Have a Northeast, South east, north midwest, south midwest, north west and south west country. Those regions already feel like different countries to a large degree given how different the land, demographics and social cultures are.[/quote]
Yeah I was not saying each state should be a country, but each state should have far more legislative power over what goes on inside it.

As for the second part of your post, you can still find a state full of as little as possible--North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana etc. :D
I wasn't really referring to open spaces of nothing, I meant more in the way of government size and laws :)
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Yeah I was not saying each state should be a country, but each state should have far more legislative power over what goes on inside it.
[/quote]

And I was saying states do. We don't feel the presence of the federal government in our daily lives very often, beyond our paychecks.

States have their own criminal laws, gun policies, etc. etc. There are federal laws that come into play, but those very seldom affect any of us directly if we aren't running drugs or criminal rackets etc. :D

I wasn't really referring to open spaces of nothing, I meant more in the way of government size and laws :)

If you live in the middle of no where in Montana, you'll be mostly free of the state, county and city laws, police etc. that do impact our daily lives much more directly than the federal government--which was my point.
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']
If you live in the middle of no where in Montana, you'll be mostly free of the state, county and city laws, police etc. that do impact our daily lives much more directly than--which was my point.[/QUOTE]

Oh ok. Then yeah, that's pretty much what my goals are.

I currently live in a city that has about 300k people, and it's about 6x too big for me.

Now if only I can get the wife to stop trying to set some kind of record for time it takes to graduate....
 
Fair enough. There's plenty of variety in places to live. I grew up in a town of about 5,000 and hated it, so I'll never live outside of a major city. I don't mind people, and love having all the culture, good beer, good food, museums, concerts, pro sports, etc. etc. at my door step.

But that's the great thing about the US. There's plenty of big cities for people like me, and plenty of rural areas for folks like you.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Oh ok. Then yeah, that's pretty much what my goals are.

I currently live in a city that has about 300k people, and it's about 6x too big for me.

Now if only I can get the wife to stop trying to set some kind of record for time it takes to graduate....[/QUOTE]

If you don't have kids, there isn't any real need to keep her.
 
True.

The degree won't do her much good in some tiny rural town as well if that's your goal. Which could lead to major issues if you can get her to move to that kind of place.
 
As much as "the other side" annoys me, i don't know if i'd want to livein a place where everyone is like minded. I like a little civilized debate every now and then. I'd rather the smaller things be debated though i guess. Living in a place where the right to abortion is a non-issue for example.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']As much as "the other side" annoys me, i don't know if i'd want to livein a place where everyone is like minded. I like a little civilized debate every now and then. I'd rather the smaller things be debated though i guess. Living in a place where the right to abortion is a non-issue for example.[/QUOTE]

That's more what I meant. I get tired of all the social issues and wouldn't mind living it a place that was fully the liberal view on social issues as I really just don't have any respect or patience for the conservative views on social issues.

But it would be boring if everyone agreed on everything. Pretty much all my friends and acquaintances are socially liberal (consequence of working in academia and not having many friends outside the field from moving around for grad school and my job)--but we still get in all kinds of debates over smaller issues.
 
[quote name='rabbitt']All this talk of impending doom is what's tearing America apart.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Bush Jr. turned the U.S. into an empire of fear after 9/11.
Literally using scare tactics to further every political agenda he/Cheney had. He planted a seed of paranoia that's blossoming into all out crazy.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yep.

And I've often seriously pondered whether we wouldn't be better off if there had been no civil war and two countries just formed.

Then we could have the more liberal north, the conservative south (who knows what would have happened to the west though) and people could live where ever the government and culture more suited them.

The country wouldn't be as big a super power so defense costs would probably be lower as we wouldn't get involved in as many military quagmires around the globe. The corollary to that is maybe WWII would have turned out for the other side....

But it's an interesting "what if" scenario to ponder.[/QUOTE]

I am recommending you read "If The South Had Won The Civil War."
 
Just imagine how different pro sports would be if the South had won the war. Most of those great football and basketball players of the last few decades would still be picking cotton in the field.

Back on topic, of course America is falling apart. Our government has made it a priority to keep Americans fighting each other. You can't point the gun at Capitol Hill if you have it pointed at your neighbor.

All the blowhards on both sides don't give two shits about our country. They love ratings and money. They want book sales. Big business and the gov't want us to buy buy buy. Spend more money. Bush told us to go shopping. Obama wants us to trade in our clunkers for brand new cars that depreciate faster than the dollar. It's all bullshit and most of you keep feeding the monster.

Oh and thrust, instead of running off to post more bullshit from that racist mother fucker Pat Robertson, why don't you just give him a blowjob? You'll both feel better afterwards.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Just imagine how different pro sports would be if the South had won the war. Most of those great football and basketball players of the last few decades would still be picking cotton in the field.

Back on topic, of course America is falling apart. Our government has made it a priority to keep Americans fighting each other. You can't point the gun at Capitol Hill if you have it pointed at your neighbor.

All the blowhards on both sides don't give two shits about our country. They love ratings and money. They want book sales. Big business and the gov't want us to buy buy buy. Spend more money. Bush told us to go shopping. Obama wants us to trade in our clunkers for brand new cars that depreciate faster than the dollar. It's all bullshit and most of you keep feeding the monster.

Oh and thrust, instead of running off to post more bullshit from that racist mother fucker Pat Robertson, why don't you just give him a blowjob? You'll both feel better afterwards.[/QUOTE]

Racist and Nazi defending.
 
Quoting and being an apologist for Beck. Ok, everyone makes a mistake.

But Pat effing Buchanan? Waxing on about wanting to live away from other people? Talking about America coming apart as if something has changed other than *you* in the last 8 months? Talk about an ultra-partisan. Shit, fullmetal and I couldn't be more opposite in position. We couldn't be more partisan and we've got it figured out that it's just the shoe on the other foot. A goddamn "liberal" takes office and you can't even make sense of your country any more. The guy hasn't even given his first state of the union and your posts are already borderline schizophrenic.

QQ you fuckin nub.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']True.

The degree won't do her much good in some tiny rural town as well if that's your goal. Which could lead to major issues if you can get her to move to that kind of place.[/QUOTE]

Well the goal is for us both to be able to work remotely.

We both have skills that can be done on computers from home. But she's on a rather prestigious ballroom dance team, and that's the main reason she's stretching school out forever, she absolutely loves it, and after school you can't have that experience again.

I have several friends that are programmers that work from home making 80k, so I hope I can do that while always on the global move.
 
Fair enough. Just make sure you have those work from home jobs lined up before you move to BFE.

And that your wife won't resent you for the lack of culture....Ballroom dancing is hardly limited to college. There are lots of clubs etc. that provide those kinds of opportunities in major cities.
 
[quote name='Strell']I really hate all the false equivalency going on. I just sat through eight years of incompetence, but still championed the military and hoped for the best, even though I recognized they were just a tool of a small group of fat old white men who were clueless.

Meanwhile, my guy gets in office - and black dood - and people LOSE THEIR SHIT, talking about everything in biblical overtones with apocalyptic flavors. Suddenly they are all granted huge political insight, even though they didn't even know town hall meetings existed before last week.

You all had no problem with our country being fucked sideways for eight years, but eight months brought out all of this hatred suddenly?

Yar, we're divided, but quit pretending like both sides counterbalance each other. Half of us aren't even in this reality.[/QUOTE]

QFT

Where have these halfwits who were out protesting in DC today been for the last 8 years? Bush spends a trillion on 2 wars and billions on tax cuts for the rich yet not a protest or peep out of the same people going batshit crazy after 8 months of Obama in the White House. If it's all about the deficit where were they for 8 years? Is it because people like Glenn Beck and Lush Limbaugh weren't giving them marching orders to do so then? You betcha. ;)

My question made it on Real Time with Bill Maher Overtime last night which asked, "Why is it so much easier to sell war in this supposedly Christian nation than it is something that actually benefits it's citizens like healthcare reform?"

Perhaps because the talking heads at Fox and elsewhere cloak the spending on war in patriotism and fear mongering and the scared and angry tardmonkeys give them a blank check. When someone dare questions the decison to go off and kill people and spend billions they're shouted down as anti-American. Yet, today, those same sheeple carry signs and shout words as anti-American and as hateful as we've ever seen. All because assholes like Beck tell them it's OK.

It just goes to show you the priorities of the moron class in this country that they simply allow themselves to blindly follow whatever message those that play upon their inherent racism, ignorance and fear, tell them to at any given time. When you have a scary black man with a funny name in the Oval Office it just makes it that much easier for the sheep to rally around the message.

If we were divided with competing ideas which were intent on making the country a better place but just were different means to try and get there, it would be one thing. But today one side is attempting to act like adults and get this country righted after 8 years of negligence and mismanagement, while the other side shouts hate filled meme's day in and day out and thrives solely on ignorance, fear and obstructionism. Until they decide to grow the fuck up and come to sit at the table with the other adults, idiot racists like Pat Buchanan can seriously shove it where the sun don't shine, his words don't mean jack.
 
That's pretty cool that you got a Q on Real Time. That plus Colbert & Daily Show are the shows I go out of my way to watch.

I think it comes down to a difference in ideology, however contradictory it might be. They claim this is a christian nation, but someone like Hannity argues 'where in the constitution does it say everyone is entitled to healthcare'.

Conservatives see it as a privilege, not a fundamental right.
 
[quote name='IRHari']That's pretty cool that you got a Q on Real Time. That plus Colbert & Daily Show are the shows I go out of my way to watch.

I think it comes down to a difference in ideology, however contradictory it might be. They claim this is a christian nation, but someone like Hannity argues 'where in the constitution does it say everyone is entitled to healthcare'.

Conservatives see it as a privilege, not a fundamental right.[/QUOTE]

And that's fine, if they want to argue the merits of their factually based ideology on issues like healthcare. For example if instead of shouting "You lie!" Joe Wilson instead went on Fox and said he didn't like the lack of enforcement in the bill re: illegal aliens, it's a point that could then be debated like the adults we all are. Instead of screaming about "death panels" "socialism" and "communism" they instead stuck with the facts of what they did or did not like regarding health care reform we could again, have a debate like civilized adults.

Instead they allow the crazies and ignorant to run the show on their side and give people like Glenn Beck, who, the other night while flipping channels I came across actually talking about the communist art at NBC, the bully pulpit to speak for them. Until the intellectualism and sense of some form of reality and fact based arguments comes back to their side, I will continue to treat their "ideology" as the garbage it has turned into.
 
[quote name='lawdood']
My question made it on Real Time with Bill Maher Overtime last night which asked, "Why is it so much easier to sell war in this supposedly Christian nation than it is something that actually benefits it's citizens like healthcare reform?" [/QUOTE]
The Duke never passed a health care bill in his life.
 
[quote name='lawdood']And that's fine, if they want to argue the merits of their factually based ideology on issues like healthcare. For example if instead of shouting "You lie!" Joe Wilson instead went on Fox and said he didn't like the lack of enforcement in the bill re: illegal aliens, it's a point that could then be debated like the adults we all are. Instead of screaming about "death panels" "socialism" and "communism" they instead stuck with the facts of what they did or did not like regarding health care reform we could again, have a debate like civilized adults.

Instead they allow the crazies and ignorant to run the show on their side and give people like Glenn Beck, who, the other night while flipping channels I came across actually talking about the communist art at NBC, the bully pulpit to speak for them. Until the intellectualism and sense of some form of reality and fact based arguments comes back to their side, I will continue to treat their "ideology" as the garbage it has turned into.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you realize this, but there are just as many idiots on the Democrat's side. They just listen to everything Obama says, accept it as fact, and yet know nothing about it. They don't know what change is. They just think it sounds nice.
 
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[quote name='fullmetalfan720']I don't think you realize this, but there are just as many idiots on the Democrat's side. They just listen to everything Obama says, except it as fact, and yet know nothing about it. They don't know what change is. They just think it sounds nice.[/QUOTE]

'accept'
 
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