Is America coming apart?

Blame "big business"?
Why does "Big business" choose to go out of the country to produce "things"?

Besides, there are more non-Big Business Americans than there are Big Business Americans. If they all were to band together and "fight" Big Business (and by "fight", I mean, only buy American, start companies that produce stuff here in America, etc., etc.,) they'd come out ahead. Sadly, the American people would rather watch American Idol than worry about who made their TV or Sweatshirt.
 
Who says Americans should "pay more"? They could work for less and decrease costs all around. Isn't that the idea of some of this health care reform going around?
 
That makes absolutely no sense. American products cost more. The only way you can lower cost is to get rid of unions and we all know how bad labor was before unions.
 
American products don't have to cost more.
There's no reasonable reason that a company should be able to make a product in country "X", pay to ship it to the US and sell it for less than if they just made the thing here.

Between taxes and higher wages, it's no surprise companies choose to move manufacturing overseas.

So, let's remove these barriers. Let's lower taxes and lower wages (from the top, down). That's what it's going to take to create a "Build American" theme.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']So, let's remove these barriers. Let's lower taxes and lower wages (from the top, down). That's what it's going to take to create a "Build American" theme.[/QUOTE]

That's impossible. You'd have to get rid of unions and we all know what happens when workers have little protection.

There was a time in America when everything was made here and prices were low. Quality of life was also super low and people worked until they died and didn't get any sort of retirement.

I'd agree that lower corporate taxes would help but you'd never get to lower wages.

Also, what would happen to the economy if everyone all of a sudden got paid less? You think banks will renogotiate mortgages and car loans also? Would Social Security also start paying less? There's just no basis in reality for this point. It'll never happen.
 
[quote name='lawdood']That first part really isn't good enough. You just keep repeating yourself and have nothing to back it up other than the always helpful "everyone I know..." B.S. FAIL.[/quote]
[quote name='lawdood']WTF? Um, it doesn't take a genius to read their signs, listen to their interviews, ireports and youtube videos. And yes, actually I have an old high school friend on facebook that is a teabagger and read the crap links, posts, videos and musings he put up daily (until I blocked him from my news feed that is.)[/quote]
You are using someone that you knew as an example of an entire group of people, and yet when I do that, you call it bullshit. And again, you make assumptions about 2 million or so people based on maybe 50 signs.
As for the second, yes I knew about the possible deal with pharma. That's one possible deal to help get this health care bill passed and may be necessary to make it work,
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This is absolutely ridiculous. It's the fucking government. They don't need lobbyists' approval to pass a bill. Now, guess what is going to happen. We are going to get screwed over, paying ridiculous amounts of money for drugs that cost $2 in Canada. Why? Obama and co. screwed us over. There's people out there barely able to pay for their medications that they need to fuckING LIVE, because Pharma is price gouging them. What is this bill going to do to stop that? Absolutely nothing.
whether we like it or not) but you keep saying "backroom DEALS" and "he's constantly lying!" as if you have countless examples of different deals happening. If so, please post instead of spending so much effort on one example which most people knew about if they had been reading the news (hard to call it "backroom" then isn't it?)
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One example should be enough to piss anyone off. In case you haven't noticed, just because a few people were reporting it doesn't mean people know about it. Also, the White House and Pharma both denied it. Plus, on top of that, Obama pledged to show the working out of the health care bill on C-SPAN, IN PUBLIC. Obviously, this is not happening. One backroom deal is one too many, especially when this is the candidate that campaigned against lobbyists' influence on Washington.
 
Where are you getting this information from, fullmetal? Please stop eating this propaganda up like a five dollar hooker. Again, it's like you just spew out right wing talking points like it's some sort of verified information. Read the actual bill instead of just what someone else wrote about it.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Where are you getting this information from, fullmetal? Please stop eating this propaganda up like a five dollar hooker. Again, it's like you just spew out right wing talking points like it's some sort of verified information. Read the actual bill instead of just what someone else wrote about it.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']They weren't allowed to bring signs in there. All that I can offer to you is the fact that everyone that I know that still supports Obama has no clue what Obama's change means, also Obama is constantly lying to people's faces.

Guess what. Fox isn't talking about it. It's the liberals, and CNN.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/13/internal-memo-confirms-bi_n_258285.html

http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/09/democrats-in-pay-for-play-deal-with-phrma/

CNN Discussing it:
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=6809
Air America talking about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uquwxoFJ52M
Air America again talking about it:
http://www.breitbart.tv/charming-li...ama-as-air-america-exposes-fascist-drug-deal/
I've posted these sources multiple times now. I can't help it you haven't been paying attention.[/QUOTE]
This was posted by me a little over 24 hours ago. It should be all the proof you need.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']This was posted by me a little over 24 hours ago. It should be all the proof you need.[/QUOTE]

Well, obviously the drug companies and similar health care industries are lining up behind Obama because they've all had a big change of heart and now know it's the right thing to do!
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Well, obviously the drug companies and similar health care industries are lining up behind Obama because they've all had a big change of heart and now know it's the right thing to do![/QUOTE]

Well, duh. Corporations are "evil" and "greedy" unless they support what you support, in which case they are "good corporate citizens" and have "social responsibility." Obviously, this goes both ways, so anyone with half a brain should wake up and realize that insurance companies don't decide out of the goodness of their hearts, or to clear their consciences, to run a $150 million ad campaign in support of something (in this case, Obama's health care proposals).
 
That door swings both ways. All of you free market capitalists turn into big fucking hypocrites when it becomes politically convenient. Big pharma is bad and is out to get all of us.

Know why we won't be able to buy drugs in Canada? NAFTA.

Mexican drugs are so shitty that we had to ban the purchase of any foreign drugs. It would be nice to just ban Mexican drugs but unfortunately, we have a treaty that won't allow it.

Second, insurance plans (including the government option) have something called a prescription co-pay. It doesn't matter if the drug is $2 or $5000. You pay your co-pay and walk out.

The bill actually LOWERS the drug bills for average Americans because more people will be covered and thus eligible to just pay a co-pay for their drugs. There's not a plan that has a deductible with over $295 in the plan and many Americans will get a $0 deductible. Again, it doesn't matter how much or little they actually spend on drugs.

It's obvious none of you have any idea how insurance plans even work but yet you whine and bitch about every little thing that pundits whine about.

Again, read the bill, take a health management course, and then come back to debate.
 
I think its this two party political system that is tearing America apart. We need a strong third party candidate which can get some media attention to change things up.
 
[quote name='ananag112']I think its this two party political system that is tearing America apart. We need a strong third party candidate which can get some media attention to change things up.[/QUOTE]

Nah. We just need to merge both parties so people start to understand the last few decades of politics.
 
Interesting article, but I see the seeds of the real problem even there.

America is no more divided than it ever was. Read some about the early years of the country, and you'll see good old fashioned hyperbole and combativeness were alive and well even then. The problem is not that we disagree, it's the implicit belief that we disagree in large completely opposed blocks. One side holds one set of views, and the other an opposite set.

I do not believe this is the case. If I tell you, for example, I support the right to choose, does that mean you can divine my stance on a host of other issues? No. Like most people, I would guess, I have various stances on various issues. On one issue I may find my staunchest ally to be an anathema on a different issue.

When you ignore that, and take the U.S. as homogeneous voting blocks, things look a lot worse than they actually are. This is why the whole Red/Blue state issue is doubly ridiculous. Not only no people of the same party have varying views on many issues, but no state is composed entirely of one persuasion or the other.

Now, that's not to say that America doesn't have it's fair share of idiots who need to read party documents (or call party headquarters for our less literate friends) to find out how they feel about an issue. I like to imagine they are a small minority.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Nah. We just need to merge both parties so people start to understand the last few decades of politics.[/QUOTE]
Wisest statement of the thread award goes to you.

[quote name='Revenantae']
Now, that's not to say that America doesn't have it's fair share of idiots who need to read party documents (or call party headquarters for our less literate friends) to find out how they feel about an issue. I like to imagine they are a small minority.[/QUOTE]

You certainly wouldn't believe that watching NBC news coverage of Tea Party's.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']You certainly wouldn't believe that watching NBC news coverage of Tea Party's.[/QUOTE]
Meh. There have been vocal idiots around for as long as I've paid attention to politics. I rarely see these people in my daily life though. Don't ruin my happy illusion.
 
America's never going to be back to being a leading manufacturing country. That will always be dominated by developing countries where more people are willing to work long hours for peanuts.

Society has to evolve to be more centered on unskilled manual labor (general construction, garbage men etc.) service jobs (retail, food etc) as the low end jobs, skilled trades (plumbing, electricians, etc.) as the upper end of blue collar jobs, and the majority of the workforce in white collar jobs.

There will always be some manufacturing, farming etc., but it will never be a dominate part of the work force like it was in the first half of the 20th century.
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']America's never going to be back to being a leading manufacturing country. That will always be dominated by developing company where more people are willing to work long hours for peanuts.

Society has to evolve to be more centered on unskilled manual labor (general contstruction, garbage men etc.) service jobs (retail, food etc) as the low end jobs, skilled trades (plumbing, electricians, etc.) as the upper end of blue collar jobs, and the majority of the workforce in white collar jobs.

There will always be some manufacturing, farming etc., but it will never be a dominate part of the work force like it was in the first half of the 20th century.[/QUOTE]

Hope you'll be right.
 
We really have no choice in the matter, and that's the way society has been changing for a long time.

Manufacturing jobs go away, people have to find other lines of work, it's been happening from the 1950s on and will continue to happen.
 
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Hopefully, we don't turn all our farmland into crappy subdivisions by the end of the next century. I think we have enough places called Whispering Pines and Canterbury Crossing.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Hopefully, we don't turn all our farmland into crappy subdivisions by the end of the next century. I think we have enough places called Whispering Pines and Canterbury Crossing.[/QUOTE]
Vertical farms dude :) You can live on a farm AND in a gated community at the same time!!!1!!1!ONE!
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']We really have no choice in the matter, and that's the way societies been changing for a long time.

Manufacturing jobs go away, people have to find other lines of work, it's been happening from the 1950s on and will continue to happen.[/QUOTE]

So long as there is a cheap way to move products from several thousands of miles away to the American consumers' hands, globalization will continue.
 
[quote name='Revenantae']Vertical farms dude :) You can live on a farm AND in a gated community at the same time!!!1!!1!ONE![/QUOTE]

...But that would mean more Mexicans would be on my properties. You can't expect me to tend to a garden when my lawn is only lightly green.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']So long as there is a cheap way to move products from several thousands of miles away to the American consumers' hands, globalization will continue.[/QUOTE]

Yep. And it's hard to imagine costs would go up for that vs. staying the same or going down (adjusting for inflation).
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']America's never going to be back to being a leading manufacturing country. That will always be dominated by developing countries where more people are willing to work long hours for peanuts.[/quote]
That's not necessarily true. We need to get away from this, "cheaper is better" mentality, and go back to "quality is better." Which would you rather have, a lead painted toy from China, or a quality made product from the US?
Society has to evolve to be more centered on unskilled manual labor (general construction, garbage men etc.) service jobs (retail, food etc) as the low end jobs, skilled trades (plumbing, electricians, etc.) as the upper end of blue collar jobs, and the majority of the workforce in white collar jobs.
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That's a great way for a society to collapse. That kind of society has no productive capacity, and it's entire livelihood depends on it's currency being the reserve currency of the world, and it's ability to print phantom money.
There will always be some manufacturing, farming etc., but it will never be a dominate part of the work force like it was in the first half of the 20th century.
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We can't have that. We need to produce something, or we will become a deindustrialized country. We can't have 72% of our economy be consumer spending. It isn't sustainable. We need a productive capacity.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']That's not necessarily true. We need to get away from this, "cheaper is better" mentality, and go back to "quality is better." Which would you rather have, a lead painted toy from China, or a quality made product from the US?[/quote]
The market has long since answered that question.
 
Yep, market has shown that cheaper crap is what sells. In most areas. I'm not saying there's no place for production in the US economy, just that it won't be the main factor as we shift to service/consumerism and intellectual white collar jobs being more dominant as we have been for half a century.
 
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