Is it safe to say by now that the Kinect and Move have flopped?

W

warmsignal

CAGiversary!
Maybe even consider them commercial failures?

I know a lot of people bought into the hype of them. But I've noticed a considerable price drop with the Kinect, and the fact that there really isn't any substantial selection of "real" games available for either, and as far as I know there isn't much on the horizon for them. I know less about the state of the Move, because I don't own a PS3. But it seems like people are quickly realizing Kinect has nothing good to offer really. When I can I expect to be able to pick one up for $50?
 
Kinect has sold like fuckin' hotcakes. Definitely not a failure. 4 million units worldwide.

Unsure of Move sales, but I'm sure they're pretty great.
 
I think that the hardware (if you can call it that) for both are selling well, but I don't hear much about the software.
 
[quote name='Scorch']I think that the hardware (if you can call it that) for both are selling well, but I don't hear much about the software.[/QUOTE]

That's what I'm saying. A lot of people have bought the hardware and now they're scratching their heads. Soon to be trading it all back in.
 
Game-wise? Definitely. People said the Wii was bad, but compared to the Kinect and Move it is a gamer's paradise. :lol:

Hardware-wise? As Joel and Scorch said, the Kinect hardware has sold really well.

I think there is still some time for both of them to turn around, but I won't get my hopes too high.
 
Kinect and Dance Central are huge success. Dance Central and Kinect Sports are both million seller
 
Kinect has sold 10 million units. Unsure of Move sales but they had already sold 4 million wands less than a month after launch.

At any rate they're hardly failures, they're simply falling into the post-launch lull with a lack of software (although Move seems to be getting more software out on a regular basis than Kinext).
 
[quote name='JasonTerminator']Yep, 10 million in sales is a flop.

Also, up is down, and right is left.[/QUOTE]

10 million, eh? So if the 360 has sold 50+ million units, that means roughly 20% of 360 owners bought Kinect... and no serious developer is even paying attention to it. Up is in fact down. Left is now right.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']
At any rate they're hardly failures, they're simply falling into the post-launch lull with a lack of software (although Move seems to be getting more software out on a regular basis than Kinext).[/QUOTE]
The problem is that for a non-standard peripheral, the post launch lull is permanent. There are over 20 million Wii balance boards out, and probably about as many motion plus units as there are PS3s. Support for either is almost non-existent.

and no serious developer is even paying attention to it.
Click to expand...
correct.
 
[quote name='warmsignal']no serious developer is even paying attention to it.[/QUOTE]

I guess Grasshopper Manufacture, Capcom, Sega, and the guy who made Panzer Dragoon aren't serious developers.
 
[quote name='62t']I guess Grasshopper Manufacture, Capcom, Sega, and the guy who made Panzer Dragoon aren't serious developers.[/QUOTE]

Who is that?, not really, not anymore, and if Panzer Dragoon is the last successful title "the guy" made, I don't see why you'd put so much stock into that.

Look, here we are at the end of March and I could almost count the number of titles out there with my fingers and the number of titles that honestly look like they will be released this year, as according to wiki, I CAN count with my figures. I cannot wait for such hits and Kinectaloons and Doodle Jump! But I'm sure Steel Battalion will ride in a save the Kinect from being totally irrelevant, even though who knows at this point if they're even still working on it, because it doesn't seem like it.
 
Both have done well with the last figures they've shared, though Kinect has had more success here in North America while Move did better in Europe as expected.

Kinect has some interesting games coming out later this year like Child of Eden from Q? Entertainment, The Gunstringer from Twisted Pixel, and Sesame Street: Once Upon A Monster from Double Fine. The big failure for Kinect has been the lack of XBLA support for Kinect for smaller, cheaper games to fill in the gaps between releases.

Move has a much stronger lineup because it's not a separate platform and can be implemented or patched into games as an additional control option where it fits in. They get the benefit of older games getting support patched in (MAG, Heavy Rain, RE5), new games adding support without having to be alienate DS3 players (Killzone 3, SOCOM 4, Top Spin 4, Virtua Tennis 4), and better support for PSN games since launch (Tumble, echochrome ii, Beat Sketcher, Dead Space Extraction).
 
The Kinect is the fastest selling consumer electronics device ever. Simply because it is not for you does not mean that the rest of the market has rejected it. On Amazon, the 4GB Xbox 360 with the Kinect is the top selling Xbox 360 and the 250GB Xbox 360 with Kinect is outselling the standalone 250GB Console.

It seems to me that the Kinect is a huge success. I would like to see more individual sales numbers, but it's good to know that Dance Central and Kinect Sports have both sold over a million copies in the United States. I love Dance Central. :bouncy:
http://twitter.com/#!/aarongreenberg/statuses/25749109889572864

I'm not really sure how the Move is doing, but it's a neat device. I'm sure it's doing fine.
 
Kinect is selling well hardware wise. I'm thinking E3 is gonna be the spot to introduce a good game lineup for both the Kinect and Move but who knows. XBLA does need to get the ball rolling on some Kinect style games. It would help those who own a Kinect hold over till something bigger comes along.
 
If you consider 10 million units sold (if the numbers mentioned above are correct) a flop/commercial failure, I'm curious how many units they'd need to move in order to be a success. Considering they're just peripherals, that seems pretty impressive. You could make the argument that their peak is over...that they're whatever the non-human equivalent of Has-been is...but not a flop.

Besides, I have a sneaky suspicion we'll see either them or their upgraded brothers in the next round of consoles.
 
It's not that I feel the Kinect "isn't for me", I was really just hoping to take advantage of some sort of crippling halt in sales, so I could grab one cheap. Some of the only some-what decent looking games are the dance games, IMO.

I think the last post is correct, the peak of it's hype and sales are over for the time being. There really exists no game that appeals to a non-causal market at this time or in the near future, so I really don't expect sales to pick back up soon. I just figured there was a reason 3 months after release that it's down to $100.


Another thought, wouldn't being a "success" mean that they'd have to considerably tap into the Wii's market? I think they've only barely made a dent. The Wii, the concept of these peripherals basically copy-catted remains a tremendous way ahead, with very little thanks to any "hardcore" market.

If no more than 50 titles ever come out for it in the end, then yes, despite 10 million units, I'd consider it a flop. People bought the 32x, but in the grand scheme it was really a shitty add-on, hardly any good software to make it worth it, therefor a flop.
 
[quote name='warmsignal']10 million, eh? So if the 360 has sold 50+ million units, that means roughly 20% of 360 owners bought Kinect... [/QUOTE]

They sold 10 million Kinects in less than half the time it took 360 sales to reach 10 million.
 
Something like the N-Gage or the Virtual Boy... those are commercial failures. These things are a bit far from it.

I think the Kinect/Move is a bit like the music game boom with Rock Band/Guitar Hero, except in this case it climaxed a bit too early I'd say.
 
[quote name='warmsignal']But I've noticed a considerable price drop with the Kinect[/QUOTE]
[quote name='warmsignal']I just figured there was a reason 3 months after release that it's down to $100.[/QUOTE]
The MSRP is still $149.99, where is this $100 Kinect you speak of? A hot selling item doesn't drop 33% but honestly if there's a store selling them for $100 I'd buy one to try it.

Everyone is providing concrete evidence that the new hardware is successful. You can debate about the audience, the games, the future of it, etc but the fact is it is doing great. Less than 5 months and 10 million+ units is nothing to scoff at. Of all those units sold they sold many new consoles too. Also consider Kinect Sports was like an instant buy along with it.

In the short time it has been out, you can't really complain that there's no games for it. Its not a console on its own, there's plenty of 360 games to play and I don't think too many people are dying for a new Kinect game when there's such a huge library to tackle between Kinect releases. Its way too early in its life to be so judgemental and this is the same case as the Wii's early life, for the most part everyone's just playing the pack in title.
 
I enjoy the Kinect, just need more games. I might pick up carnival games and I'm looking forward to Child of Eden. To me E3 will be the 'make it or break it point'.
 
[quote name='CouRageouS']A hot selling item doesn't drop 33% but honestly if there's a store selling them for $100 I'd buy one to try it.[/QUOTE]

I bought my Kinect for ~$100 (+tax, shipping) and many times you can see it pop up for this price in the Amazon Warehouse Deals thread. Yeah, it's either listed as 'used' or 'like new', but pretty much everyone reports that the thing is still sealed in the box (like mine was).

I'll say this about the 360 console/kinect bundles: There seem to be an awful lot of online resellers buying the bundles then separating the Kinects and the Consoles. I think that's why you see so many of them popping up on AWD and the like. I know mine came from a bundle because the box didnt have all of the fancy printing of 'Kinect Branding' that you see on retail boxes of the standalones in Target/Best Buy/etc..
 
So...you want it to be a failure simply so you can pick it up on the cheap?

There are 3 XBLA games lined up...Angry Birds, Doodle Jump and Gunstringer. I stand by my prediction that at E3 MS will push XBLA Kinect games, and make a big push.

But I can't take you seriously when you say stuff like capcom isn't a serious developer.
 
kinect is definitly WINNING! I dont have one myself, but its sure is selling well. The move hasnt done as good, but I actually love the move. I cant wait for socom 4 to come out. Ill be playing that sucker with the move and in 3d the whole way thru.
 
Success and failure is still an open question since it is ultimately software that will determine that. We are too early in the lifecycle to determine if it has the legs to build on the initial hype.
 
I think there are games in the pipeline obviously, but were starting to get into spring, and once summer comes along the release schedule for games thins, so we may have to wait until the fall.
 
[quote name='seanr1221']So...you want it to be a failure simply so you can pick it up on the cheap?

There are 3 XBLA games lined up...Angry Birds, Doodle Jump and Gunstringer. I stand by my prediction that at E3 MS will push XBLA Kinect games, and make a big push.

But I can't take you seriously when you say stuff like capcom isn't a serious developer.[/QUOTE]

So the announcement of angry birds is what we'll have to look forward to comes this years end? I think I rest my case. At least Move is trying to incorporate use with some of the ps3's actual titles.
 
They're selling well hardware wise, so I'm sure MS and Sony are happy. Software does seem lagging though.

I couldn't care less as I hate motion controls. I just hope they remain optional accessories on the next gen X-box and PS and don't come in every sku and drive up prices.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']The problem is that for a non-standard peripheral, the post launch lull is permanent. There are over 20 million Wii balance boards out, and probably about as many motion plus units as there are PS3s. Support for either is almost non-existent.


correct.[/QUOTE]

The Move is slightly more than 6 months old and Kinect is slightly less than 6 months old. The Wii Balance Board on the other hand is coming up on 3 years old at this point. Aside from this difference, its silly to compare them because while all 3 are non-standard peripherals, they do very different things. The Balance Board is very limited in its applicability whereas Move and Kinect have more options.

And finally, calling 6 months a "permanent lull" is a bit of a stretch.
 
[quote name='warmsignal']So the announcement of angry birds is what we'll have to look forward to comes this years end? I think I rest my case. At least Move is trying to incorporate use with some of the ps3's actual titles.[/QUOTE]

"10 million sold is a commercial failure!" - Warmsignal
 
[quote name='seanr1221']"10 million sold is a commercial failure!" - Warmsignal[/QUOTE]

If you're going quote me, why not stick with something I actually said? My question was "maybe even consider them a commercial failure".

Sure that theory has been pretty well shot down, but the debate over whether sales have anything to do with the relevancy or sustainability of the platform is really what matters most. I think my comparison to the Sega 32x was fair. People bought it, but it was mostly crap with no good third party support, irrelevant with other upcoming/existing platforms and by the end of it's short-lived run only had 30-40 titles. It was a flop.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']
And finally, calling 6 months a "permanent lull" is a bit of a stretch.[/QUOTE]

He was using the Wii balance board and Wii Motion Plus as an example, just saying he expects the same to happen with Kinect and Move.

It's a fair point. Software tends to lag even for peripherals that sell well as most developers go for the lowest common denominator and put out games that everyone who owns the console can play.
 
I follow some gadget blogs and I read a lot about many people using kinect, outside of gaming. It feels like it's more popular for hobbyist then for gamers.

The fact that only 1 kinect game sold per kinect sold makes me suspicious. Then again, there really isn't much of a selection of titles. Time will tell I guess.
 
[quote name='seanr1221']The 32x sold a little over 500,000 units. How in the hell does that compare to 10 million?[/QUOTE]

The Geni sold roughly 30 million according to most sources, Wiki says 32x sold "650,000 as of 1994", but gaming was much less mainstream then. That was considerable for the time. There was no casual market generally uninterested in gaming to buy tons and tons of units.

But again I'm not comparing sales figures, this debate raises the question of whether something like Kinect can sell a lot and still be flop in retrospect being unappealing to the majority and dieing off quickly - a hot yard sail item next year. If we've already seen the bulk of sales and the majority and quality of titles so far... it's surely headed down a similar path as other flops such as the 32x. I just don't see the Kinect or Move really going anywhere. Where in the past have we ever soon an add-on really amount to much?
 
[quote name='warmsignal']The Geni sold roughly 30 million according to most sources, Wiki says 32x sold "650,000 as of 1994", but gaming was much less mainstream then. That was considerable for the time. There was no casual market generally uninterested in gaming to buy tons and tons of units.

But again I'm not comparing sales figures, this debate raises the question of whether something like Kinect can sell a lot and still be flop in retrospect being unappealing to the majority and dieing off quickly - a hot yard sail item next year. If we've already seen the bulk of sales and the majority and quality of titles so far... it's surely headed down a similar path as other flops such as the 32x. I just don't see the Kinect or Move really going anywhere. Where in the past have we ever soon an add-on really amount to much?[/QUOTE]

You were proven wrong. Just get over the fact that you will most likely NOT get this off clearance like you thought you would.

Sales figures are a big determining factor if something is a success or failure. The 32x, just like Sega CD, did not sell well. Plus when the 32x came out, it was already announced about future systems i.e. Sega Dreamcast and Sony Playstation. The Kinect has sold extremely well and there is no sight of a new upcoming system (non-handheld).

For Microsoft, Kinect is a success. They made tons of money. For us consumers, who knows what the future will bring... the add-on hasn't been out for that long. With huge sales figures, my guess is there is plenty in the pipeline that we will see at E3. Titles have trickled out up to this point.

[quote name='CouRageous']The MSRP is still $149.99, where is this $100 Kinect you speak of? A hot selling item doesn't drop 33% but honestly if there's a store selling them for $100 I'd buy one to try it.[/quote]

I got mine at launch through Microsoft for $100 via their Labor Day coupon. Since then though I haven't seen them really fall below retail. I have only seen packages where games drop in price.
 
[quote name='lordopus99']You were proven wrong. Just get over the fact that you will most likely NOT get this off clearance like you thought you would.[/QUOTE]

Just you wait, I will. The slower the sales, the lower the price will dip. I would almost put money on it that's it's not going to better itself before next gen... which I'm almost sure we'll begin to hear about next year (Nintendo DS was a year ahead of the first next-gen console, as the 3DS will be to this next-gen).

[quote name='seanr1221']Just saw the virtual boy sold more than the 32x. Yes, 32x sold really well![/QUOTE]

Again you are talking sales figures. Kinect will be forget in a pile of yard sale items in a couple of years and most will be left scratching their heads as to what exactly "it had". That's my prediction, and that's all I will say about it further.

Is it safe to say it's a flop yet? Not yet... But I've got a feeling.
 
10 million sold and it still COULD BE a flop?

Dude, smarten up. Its not a failure, not going to be, no matter how much you want it to be.

The games are coming, the hardware was early.


Whats next on your pessimist list? WW2 was only a 'skirmish'?
 
Kinect was released Nov. 4 2010 gives it about 4 GOOD months on the market.

Sold 10 million in 4 months.

Of course software is a bit lagging its ONLY BEEN OUT 4 MONTHS. Example 360 and ps3 releases within the first 6 months of launch.

Like a new console has some opening games but takes a little for development.

Your analogy is great the longer the hardware is out the older it gets the price will dip/drop
 
[quote name='jimjom']The games are coming[/QUOTE]

Isn't that the same lie Square Enix told us about good games coming from them? I'll believe it when I see it. The kinect has NO real games on it.
 
wow. I can't believe the nonsense i'm reading in this thread.

I guess it is true what they say: haters gonna hate.

Every company wishes they could flop to the tune of 10M units in 4 months.
 
[quote name='Paco']Isn't that the same lie Square Enix told us about good games coming from them? I'll believe it when I see it. The kinect has NO real games on it.[/QUOTE]

Dragon Quest IX was good
 
There is alot of use that can come from the Kinect. They have already had people using it on PC's and they are talking bout using it in surgery procedures at hospitals to optimize surgery procedures. Just look at some of the stuff on Youtube.
 
As just about everyone else had pointed out, the Kinect hardware has sold insanely well. It set the Guinness World Record for sales of a consumer electronic product in its first 60 days on the market. And as a few people also pointed out, the lack of games is nothing new at all for a post-launch window. There is always a lull. The fact that there are 10 million+ units out there is only gonna give developers and publishers plenty of incentive to get games out. Sorry, OP, but you're wrong. You can spin it anyway you want, but it's not gonna change facts. Move along.
 
It seems like people are getting more use out of hacking the thing than using the actual software.

10 million sold in such a short amount of time is a success, no matter what way you try to spin it. I don't think it'll have long term staying value, but Microsoft is probably happy about all the money they're making off of it.
 
Stores got a lot of Kinect units in stock. However, they aren't selling to consumers as well as one might think.

Move however is completely Sony's fault. Stores just don't get units in and are usually sold out.
 
That's because after about mid to late January is the (extremely) slow season for video game sales. So of course you're going to see stock.
 
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