Is Obama our savior, our Messiah? Or is it just an Obama cult?

[quote name='camoor']Yeah, but all you need to do is look at his face to realize that everything he says is parody. Marge once explained to Homer that ppl can't see you winking over the phone - the same applies to the internets.[/quote]Actually, a lot of people thought he was more-or-less serious in the early days of his show.
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']Again back on topic, check out a bill that Obama co-sponsored - S. 2433. Wealth redistribution at its finest.[/QUOTE]

Wealth distribution is badass for those without much. But then it creates an artificial ceiling that nobody wants to exceed. People stop trying to achieve more, because they get almost as much doing bare minimum or nothing at all.

I lived in Europe for 2 months last year and saw it everywhere. I sure hope we don't end up like that.

Shit, in most of Europe the best thing a single female can do is have a baby because she'll get plenty from the government, often more than she would working.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Is this whole board this left leaning or it just that this thread is about Obama?[/QUOTE]

The board is left-leaning, that much is obvious to anyone who spends any time here.

The link in your sig turned out to be extremely interesting to someone like myself, a declared neutral on the subject, so thank you!

And by the way, I love your avatar.
 
[quote name='looploop']http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/
Some interesting critiques on Obama on the BBC blog today.[/QUOTE]

One of the most interesting comments was someone bitching about the media's treatment of Clinton : "What we see is the modern day media stoning to death of a woman."

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Are these people kidding? The media has treated Hillary with kid gloves for years!
 
[quote name='elprincipe']The board is left-leaning, that much is obvious to anyone who spends any time here.

The link in your sig turned out to be extremely interesting to someone like myself, a declared neutral on the subject, so thank you!

And by the way, I love your avatar.[/QUOTE]

Sorry to quote myself, but since I stated the link provided was interesting, I also wanted to share a rebuttal I found:

http://www.durangobill.com/Swindle_Swindle.html
 
At the Cleveland debate when asked what the lone vote he regrets having cast in his years in the Senate was, he answered thusly:

"When I first arrived in the Senate that first year, we had a situation surrounding Terri Schiavo. And I remember how we adjourned with a unanimous agreement that eventually allowed Congress to interject itself into that decision-making process of the families. It wasn't something I was comfortable with, but it was not something that I stood on the floor and stopped. And I think that was a mistake, and I think the American people understood that that was a mistake. And as a constitutional law professor, I knew better. ... And I think that's an example of inaction, and sometimes that can be as costly as action."

That's a pretty telling statement there, Barry.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']What for? Did he pick the wrong sig for ya or somethin'?[/quote]
Shut the f**k up dumbass, when everyone else is saying the flag salute, he turns the other way and slouches... so go fuck yourself...
 
[quote name='CAGIronMan']Shut the f**k up dumbass, when everyone else is saying the flag salute, he turns the other way and slouches... so go fuck yourself...[/QUOTE]

This creates quite a paradox for me - as it's far too many words to fit on a bumper sticker for a political slogan, yet it's also even less intellectually coherent than more or less anything I've ever seen on a bumper sticker (including those indecipherable ones in "Klingon").
 
That picture that keeps circulating with i believe Edwards and Clinton holding their hands over their chests in salute is taken out of context. They weren't reciting the pledge, the photo was taken while the star spangled banner was playing. Clinton and Edwards just thought they'd pull some heart strings and salute while it was playing. Ordinarily you wouldn't.
 
[quote name='CAGIronMan']Shut the f**k up dumbass, when everyone else is saying the flag salute, he turns the other way and slouches... so go fuck yourself...[/QUOTE]


Because how Obama stands is much more detrimental to this country than a disastrous war or policies condoning torture... Keep focusing on the important things you semi-literate wanker.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']That picture that keeps circulating with i believe Edwards and Clinton holding their hands over their chests in salute is taken out of context. They weren't reciting the pledge, the photo was taken while the star spangled banner was playing. Clinton and Edwards just thought they'd pull some heart strings and salute while it was playing. Ordinarily you wouldn't.[/quote]

I see somebody was watching Bill Maher's last episode. Bravo!
 
[quote name='JolietJake']That picture that keeps circulating with i believe Edwards and Clinton holding their hands over their chests in salute is taken out of context. They weren't reciting the pledge, the photo was taken while the star spangled banner was playing. Clinton and Edwards just thought they'd pull some heart strings and salute while it was playing. Ordinarily you wouldn't.[/quote]You don't put your hand over your heart for the National Anthem? When did that start? I've always done that at sporting events, concerts, etc. Or am I missing that dreaded "context"?
 
I think less people are doing that - after all, it's not "hip" to be patriotic these days, especially around the Commies that seem to be everywhere.
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']... especially around the Commies that seem to be everywhere.[/quote]
Commies? No, no, no.

It's far worse.

They are Bolsheviks.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I see somebody was watching Bill Maher's last episode. Bravo![/quote]
Never miss a show.
 
[quote name='daroga']You don't put your hand over your heart for the National Anthem? When did that start? I've always done that at sporting events, concerts, etc. Or am I missing that dreaded "context"?[/quote]
I know we didn't in school when our teacher made us sing the damn thing, every single day....:roll:

People at sporting events are just afraid of getting caught on camera being "un-patriotic." That'd be worse than the current steroid scandal in baseball.

Physical appearance can be so deceiving, Osama bin Laden could salute the flag, but it doesn't mean anything. Patriotism means more than holding your hand over your chest during a song.
 
Okay, so the glow around Obama (from the Rolling Stone cover) is now fading. Now he's saying that he did hear his racist anti-American preacher say some of those comments at church - that he originally denied ever hearing? Which is it, Barackomrade?
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']Okay, so the glow around Obama (from the Rolling Stone cover) is now fading. Now he's saying that he did hear his racist anti-American preacher say some of those comments at church - that he originally denied ever hearing? Which is it, Barackomrade?[/QUOTE]

Hey give Obama a break. Didn't you read his speech?

He's known the preacher for 20 years, contributed 22,000 dollars to his church last year, and had him preform his wedding, had him working in his campaign - but he had no idea that the guy was so full of spite, guile, and intolerance. Had he ever heard such divisive sour-grapes from him himself, or he would have left the church.

Jeez, take a mans word for hells sake.
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']Okay, so the glow around Obama (from the Rolling Stone cover) is now fading. Now he's saying that he did hear his racist anti-American preacher say some of those comments at church - that he originally denied ever hearing? Which is it, Barackomrade?[/quote]

He said he didn't hear the comments in question.

He didn't elaborate on what comments he did hear.

How is that a contradiction?

Let's try some logic:

I make statement A in your presence.

I make statement B without you present.

Somebody asks you if you heard me make statement B.

You say no.

You later state you heard me make statement A.

How many lies have you told?
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Hey give Obama a break. Didn't you read his speech?

He's known the preacher for 20 years, contributed 22,000 dollars to his church last year, and had him preform his wedding, had him working in his campaign - but he had no idea that the guy was so full of spite, guile, and intolerance. Had he ever heard such divisive sour-grapes from him himself, or he would have left the church.

Jeez, take a mans word for hells sake.[/QUOTE]

You're right! God damn me...along with America. Right, Pastor Wright?

:lol:
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']He said he didn't hear the comments in question.

He didn't elaborate on what comments he did hear.

How is that a contradiction?

Let's try some logic:

I make statement A in your presence.

I make statement B without you present.

Somebody asks you if you heard me make statement B.

You say no.

You later state you heard me make statement A.

How many lies have you told?[/QUOTE]

According to your logic question, none. Do you really think Obama was honest about this whole thing?
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']According to your logic question, none. Do you really think Obama was honest about this whole thing?[/QUOTE]

Wait a week or two and maybe there will be a South Park episode that will put it into terms that you can understand.
 
FoC's point was about your claim of a contradiction, and he did so well. You can't suddenly turn "contradiction" into "do you think he was being honest" without first abandoning the claim of "contradiction." You're more or less admitting to there being no contradiction in the first place.
 
No, I said according to his logic question, none. I agreed with his point.

Does that point apply to Obama's previous denial of hearing Wright's garbage - the adamant denials that he's now backpedaling on? I don't see how, but okay.

And I asked FoC if he thought Obama was being honest about this. What's the harm in that?
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']And I asked FoC if he thought Obama was being honest about this. What's the harm in that?[/quote]

It matters more what can be proved. If you spot Obama in the audience during one of Wright's sermons that is supposedly racist or antiAmerica, there's getting closer to your silver bullet.
 
But that's not what I asked you - I asked what you thought about it. If you honestly believe that through over 20 years of knowing Wright that Obama never heard any of Wright's garbage - which Obama was asserting and is now backpedaling on, then believe that.

As far as saying Wright's sermons being "suposedly racist or antiAmerica", I don't think it's a matter of context. The guy hates whites and hates this country - and his own words say so.
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']But that's not what I asked you - I asked what you thought about it. If you honestly believe that through over 20 years of knowing Wright that Obama never heard any of Wright's garbage - which Obama was asserting and is now backpedailing on, then believe that.

As far as saying Wright's sermons being "suposedly racist or antiAmerica", I don't think it's a matter of context. The guy hates whites and hates this country - and his own words say so.[/quote]

I was Catholic for 20 years and an altar boy for about 5 of those years. I can't remember a full, specific homily.

I'm sure a lot of garbage was spoken during those Masses, but I wasn't listening.

Here a few thoughts about Obama's relationship with his church:

How often did Obama go to church? Was he an Easter/Christmas Christian? Did he sleep through sermons? Did he and his wife go to the cry room and bone when nobody was looking? Did he enter a Zen trance and stay transfixed until his wife told him the service was over? Was he playing poker, balancing his checkbook or clipping his fingernails? Was he watching his kids to make sure they were behaving at the expense of hanging onto every word from the Reverend?

Regarding the Reverend, I don't think he hates whites or this country. I think he sees certain problems in America and our leadership and points them out in a loud, booming fashion. As I've asked others, what specific turn of phrase makes you think he hates whites and the US?
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Regarding the Reverend, I don't think he hates whites or this country. I think he sees certain problems in America and our leadership and points them out in a loud, booming fashion. As I've asked others, what specific turn of phrase makes you think he hates whites and the US?[/QUOTE]

HeavyHitter, while you're at it, inquiring minds would also like to know who's buried in Grant's Tomb? ;)

Whether or not you want to use the word "hate," he obviously states his disdain for America and can't possibly be too fond of whites (especially well-off ones or those in any position of power) based on his racist rhetoric in the videos in my sig. If you can't see that I think you just may have Obama blinders on. "Seeing problems in America" != USKKKA, Forget God Bless America - instead God damn America!, referring to rich whites as "enemies", and the rest of his racist silliness.
 
[quote name='Ruined']HeavyHitter, while you're at it, inquiring minds would also like to know who's buried in Grant's Tomb? ;)

Whether or not you want to use the word "hate," he obviously states his disdain for America and can't possibly be too fond of whites (especially well-off ones or those in any position of power) based on his racist rhetoric in the videos in my sig. If you can't see that I think you just may have Obama blinders on. "Seeing problems in America" != USKKKA, Forget God Bless America - instead God damn America!, referring to rich whites as "enemies", and the rest of his racist silliness.[/quote]

So, both you and Heavy Hitter have been obsessing over the videos, but you can't find an exact phrase that you determine to be racist or antiAmerican?

Do I have to watch the videos over several more times, transcribe every word and analyze them for racism or any other ill?

Any other heavy lifting you need done?

...

Let's say you can find a sermon where he advocates violence against whites and overthrow of the US government, how should he be punished for his words?
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']So, both you and Heavy Hitter have been obsessing over the videos, but you can't find an exact phrase that you determine to be racist or antiAmerican?

Do I have to watch the videos over several more times, transcribe every word and analyze them for racism or any other ill?

Any other heavy lifting you need done?

...[/quote]

Reread my last post, I gave 3 examples at the end of it. Again, you can attempt to nuance away those obvious examples in apologist fashion, but I would repeat that the racism and disdain inherent is so obvious that you must be wearing Obama blinders if so.

Let's say you can find a sermon where he advocates violence against whites and overthrow of the US government, how should he be punished for his words?
Click to expand...

He shouldn't be punished necessarily, but someone sympathetic to those viewpoints also shouldn't be president :)
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']So, both you and Heavy Hitter have been obsessing over the videos, but you can't find an exact phrase that you determine to be racist or antiAmerican?

Do I have to watch the videos over several more times, transcribe every word and analyze them for racism or any other ill?

Any other heavy lifting you need done?

...

Let's say you can find a sermon where he advocates violence against whites and overthrow of the US government, how should he be punished for his words?[/QUOTE]

What Ruined said - the guy is obviously anti-White and anti-America. I'm not saying it - he did. Spin it any you way you want, but you still end up with the same result in the end.

And if you want to do some heavy lifting, go read some of this guy's church bulletins. You'll find more of the same there.
 
[quote name='Ruined']Reread my last post, I gave 3 examples at the end of it. Again, you can attempt to nuance away those obvious examples in apologist fashion, but I would repeat that the racism and disdain inherent is so obvious that you must be wearing Obama blinders if so.
[/quote]

So, Reverend Wright said, "Forget God Bless America - instead God damn America!, referring to rich whites as 'enemies', and the rest of his racist silliness."

Is that the exact quote?

Regarding my Obama blinders, I don't know if I'll vote for him. He is a liberal. I'm a libertarian. Hillary's critique that Obama is a relatively unknown quantity is correct. However, Hillary and McCain are so unappealing I wouldn't want a vote for them to come back to me. I have enough buyer's remorse over Bush from 2000.

I'll watch Wright's sermons again for you. Maybe I'll be able to gin up some outrage in myself.

Does Obama know any communists?
 
Well, poo, no sound at work.

Are these the comments people are stretching to crush Obama with?

"The government gives them [African Americans] the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
• After September 11, 2001, he said: "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back into our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."
• "It just came to me within the past few weeks, y'all, why so many folks are hating on Barack Obama. He doesn't fit the model. He ain't white, he ain't rich, and he ain't privileged. Hillary fits the mold. Europeans fit the mold, Giuliani fits the mold. Rich white men fit the mold. Hillary never had a cab whiz past her and not pick her up because her skin was the wrong colour. Hillary never had to worry about being pulled over in her car as a black man driving in the wrong… I am sick of Negroes who just do not get it. Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single parent home, Barack was. Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a $$$$er. Hillary has never had her people defined as non-persons."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/18/barackobama.uselections20083

EDIT: Heavy Hitter, can you give me a link to Wright's bulletins? Gas being the cost it is and Chicago being a good 8 hours of driving one way from here, it isn't worth it just to try to prove you wrong.
 
Looks like the current bulletin is not up on the TUCC site - but then the site has been undergoing a pretty good scrubbing. (Insert shock here.)

I think there was a BizzyBlog article with some screencaps of bulletins, so you may find something there to warp into a defense of some kind. Be sure to thank me for doing some of the heavy lifting!
 
All you really have to do is watch the Wright videos, and swap out any other race for whenever he says "white". Also, swap out every reference to America and replace it with U.N.

And then ask yourself if he, or the politician involved with him, would have any hope of a career at this point.
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']Be sure to thank me for doing some of the heavy lifting![/QUOTE]

I see you asking other people to do the legwork to support your claims, and then patting yourself on the back for your achievements.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I see you asking other people to do the legwork to support your claims, and then patting yourself on the back for your achievements.[/quote]

No shit. I'm willing to look at the other side of things, but now I have to scour every sermon Wright has given in past 20 years?

I'm not defending Wright. I'm just not convicting him or Obama by proxy until I have more proof.
 
That's all I get? One sentence? No 7-paragraph manifesto overloaded with fifty-buck words? Wow, I'm disappointed.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect FoC to do anything to try to support my claims. Him trying to find something to distort and blur the issue at hand that Obama is a lying S.O.S. - now that I would expect.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']All you really have to do is watch the Wright videos, and swap out any other race for whenever he says "white". Also, swap out every reference to America and replace it with U.N.

And then ask yourself if he, or the politician involved with him, would have any hope of a career at this point.[/quote]

We've gone over this, thrustbucket. It requires an alternative history/universe. Let's keep it simple.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I'm not defending Wright. I'm just not convicting him or Obama by proxy until I have more proof.[/QUOTE]

See videos in my sig. All the proof any rational person would need.
 
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