Is the DS going for the PSP's jugular?

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jkam

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Disclaimer:
I am not in any way saying this will change PSP sales or bashing the PSP.

Nintendo is really trying to hammer home the price difference of the DS and the PSP with including Mario 64 with a DS purchase next week. $150 for a system with a game looks better than $250 for a system with a pouch, earphones, and a remote. I think it's a pretty smart move by Nintendo.

I know these systems aren't in competetion as they are two totally different machines but I am wondering what do you all think? As much as these companies especially Nintendo say they aren't going for the same thing they are still fighting for the gamer dollar. Will this make a difference?

If they really are trying to squash the competetion (which we know won't happen) it would make sense to try and do it as early as possible.
 
[quote name='jkam']Disclaimer:
I am not in any way saying this will change PSP sales or bashing the PSP.

Nintendo is really trying to hammer home the price difference of the DS and the PSP with including Mario 64 with a DS purchase next week. $150 for a system with a game looks better than $250 for a system with a pouch, earphones, and a remote. I think it's a pretty smart move by Nintendo.

I know these systems aren't in competetion as they are two totally different machines but I am wondering what do you all think? As much as these companies especially Nintendo say they aren't going for the same thing they are still fighting for the gamer dollar. Will this make a difference?

If they really are trying to squash the competetion (which we know won't happen) it would make sense to try and do it as early as possible.[/QUOTE]

Holy hell, this is the first time I heard about Mario 64 being bundled with the DS. Is this and official bundle?
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Were there ever any reports regarding manufacturing costs for the DS/PSP? Is Nintendo even taking a loss on the DS?[/QUOTE]

They make profit on each unit sold. And yeah, I think the DS and PSP are competing. Portables have always been secondary to the console scene and with a high price on both the DS and the PSP, you'd better believe that one effects the other. As for adding Mario 64x4 into the deal, I don't believe it's a personal attack from Nintendo to Sony.
 
[quote name='Parathod']They make profit on each unit sold. And yeah, I think the DS and PSP are competing. Portables have always been secondary to the console scene and with a high price on both the DS and the PSP, you'd better believe that one effects the other. As for adding Mario 64x4 into the deal, I don't believe it's a personal attack from Nintendo to Sony.[/QUOTE]

definitely not a personal attack, more so to get more DS sold to those who were still debating.

I do think, however, a better pack in might be meteos or something similar to tetris. mario 64 is definitely not a bad choice, of course.
 
Its a smart move in many ways, but I think E3 had alot to do with Nintendo desicion to do this. I think their showing was much better recieved then even they had planned. They are just looking for a way to get the systems in people's hands. Free game today means 30 bucks or so on Nintendogs, and Super Mario, Metroid, that doctor game or that Lawyer game, etc. I wasnt plainng on getting a DS till E3, now this deal I feel like I have to.
 
I think Nintendo would be doing this if the PSP didn't exist. They've probably got their production process well in hand by now and it would take much of a drop in their costs to to break even on the bundle. (I only paid $15 for Mario DS at launch so I can't complain.) This is really about pumping up the installed base.

Deciding how many units to buy on a initial order is critcally important for publishers of console games since they pay a royalty on each unit. Having the platform use mask ROM ups the ante since the per unit cost is a good deal higher than an optical disc. There is a meeting for every project when the schedule looks firm and it's time to schedule that order, to determine just how big that order should be. Assuming the upfront cost aren't an issue, as they are for little companies like Atlus, the people involved has to pore over stats of similar games sales performance in the past, their honest assessment of this game's quality and appeal, and the installed base of the platform.

Obviously, no sane person is going to order more units than the installed base can absorb, especially after the example of Atari 25 years ago. Most games only reach a tiny percent of the audience, at least at SRP retail. Some games change hands who knows how many times after the first sale, especially something with little replay value. GTA:VC on PS2 is an incredible seller at 6 million+ units but that is only 20% of the US PS2 installed base.

Whichever particular formula a publisher arrives at, it final number is always going to be at least partially a reflection of the platform's installed base. Mario DS is long since in profits, so foregoing further profits on the game to pump up DS sales will translate in much, much more revenue from those third party publisher's royalties. It's the same reason why cutting the price on the base hardware is nearlys always a better tactic than trying to reap a profit from the hardware itself. Those third party royalties are the #1 profit center of a healthy platform.

Some of you may have seen the recent announcement that Resident Evil 4 has sold 500K units of the end of April. A frontrunner for 2005 Game of the Year yet it hasn't even cleared a million units. This is the difficulty of having a M rating on that particular platform with such a low installed base for the target audience. Unless it is completely awful the initial order for the PS2 will be at least as many units just to get started.
 
[quote name='jkam']Disclaimer:
I am not in any way saying this will change PSP sales or bashing the PSP.

Nintendo is really trying to hammer home the price difference of the DS and the PSP with including Mario 64 with a DS purchase next week. $150 for a system with a game looks better than $250 for a system with a pouch, earphones, and a remote. I think it's a pretty smart move by Nintendo.

I know these systems aren't in competetion as they are two totally different machines but I am wondering what do you all think? As much as these companies especially Nintendo say they aren't going for the same thing they are still fighting for the gamer dollar. Will this make a difference?

If they really are trying to squash the competetion (which we know won't happen) it would make sense to try and do it as early as possible.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand how you can say at all they are not competing with each other, and then go back yourself after the yellow portion and say that Nintendo is trying to squash the competition.

Obviously, they are competing with each other. The target market may be different, but they are both "high-end" portable gaming machines that display 3D graphics. Even with a different target market they are still direct competitors because the markets are not exclusive.

What you said in yellow is like saying the GameCube doesn't compete with the XBOX.

Besides that the rest of your post was excellent you and you made a good point about the Value Pack and the pack-in game for the DS :)
 
I dont care how different the portables are, they are definitely competing. I dont think this is to shove Sony further into a hole because Nintendo would have made a bundle even if there was no PSP.
 
I think Nintendo should start putting out some games for the DS, that's their best bet. Both systems are stale to me right now. I'm going to get Kirby in a week, but then who knows when the next game's coming out. I'm sick of unconfirmed, and non-exsistant release dates.
 
PSP is starting to remind me of the 3d0, sure it's far more capable than what else is out there (and a good system in its own right), but it's just too pricey.
 
Ya, I have to see the RE 4 to beleive it. It has a good chance of being like the new Splinter Cell PS2 version, bad. Anyway it sold 1.6 mil worldwide so RE4 is doing fine. And in the face of the DS's great lineup. 360 Launch. And the Zelda game for the cube can a potentially bad port of a game already out for almost a year do well. That's the question.
 
Ya, I have to see the RE 4 to beleive it. It has a good chance of being like the new Splinter Cell PS2 version, bad. Anyway it sold 1.6 mil worldwide so RE4 is doing fine. And in the face of the DS's great lineup. 360 Launch. And the Zelda game for the cube can a potentially bad port of a game already out for almost a year do well. That's the question.

But look at the DS lineup for the year and the PSP's. It's not looking good for the psp. Not good at all.
 
You know... I recently very very seriously considered getting a PSP in the near future... and the more I look at it... the more it simply doesn't make any sense for a DS owner right now. Look at the PSP's E3 showing... look at how many games are yet to come for the system. There simply isnt anything huge on the horizon. Perhaps when it gets closer to Christmas (more huge games hopefully...), they drop the price of the thing (by dropping the accessories preferably), or release some new colors for the thigns... there is no reason to buy one. My SOLE reason for buying one now maybe the simply astounding movie support thus far (although the prices leave much to be desired) and Lumines (for whice i got a PC clone). I'm actually kind of disappointed... hopefully some really high profile games will come that will attract me more than they are now.
 
For whatever reason, I've noticed that I invest in Sony systems early while getting the Nintendo systems when I feel comfortable with what's out, To me, the PSP has a few cool games out right now and some more out later this year. There's still plenty to come for the PSP and the PSP offers more than just the games to keep me busy when you don't want to play and just want to watch a movie, video, or listen to some music. I don't have an MP3 player and haven't felt the need for one yet, which is why the PSP intrigues me by letting me listen to music when I don't want to lplay games. The price tells you this is an investment, and it is. I know I'd use the system to it's fullest, as I have the need and ability to use it. I "invested" on a PS2 at launch and wasn't disappointed in the least ever in my ownership of the PS2. As for the games, Virtua Tennis and Burnout Legends were two games I was impressed by at E3, both played like the console version I loved, but the fact that they're now available in a portable format to bring anywhere adds much value and presents it as impressive amongst what's been done before on handhelds.

The DS is a cool system, but it's not something I absolutely need to have right now, but I am confident that I will have the 100% urge to NEED it in the future. I'm not in need of a DS as an enhanced GBA player since I have an SP and it suits me fine. I will wait for THE color/style of DS that I want no matter how far down the line it is since I did that with the SP and got it when there were tons of games I'd get for the system. There's quite a few interesting titles, but I can definitely wait until there are a mountain of good games to give me plenty of options and not a once or twice a month that it is right now to choose from even with the big fall that's coming up. It offers a new dimension of interactivity is very cool, but it's not exciting me enough to buy one right now. Sonic Rush was very cool, and I liked that it didn't rely on touchscreen controls that would ruin it. It offers some cool extras, but nothing to the degree that the PSP offers. I like having flexibility, but the DS doesn't excite me in that area either.

I'm in no way saying this as a general statement to cover everyone, it's my specific feelings, thoughts, and needs of the systems. It of course varies from person to person, as one person's trash is another's treasure. Heck, E3 has even help me be impressed with the N-Gage. I stopped by the booth and got to play in a Splinter Cell CT competition and was thoroughly impressed with how well it played and it looked very nice for the N-Gaga. Most of what was wrong with the original was fixed and improved. I like having choices with my gaming, so owning more than one portable system is what I'm planning one doing.
 
[quote name='j.elles']Ya, I have to see the RE 4 to beleive it. It has a good chance of being like the new Splinter Cell PS2 version, bad. Anyway it sold 1.6 mil worldwide so RE4 is doing fine. And in the face of the DS's great lineup. 360 Launch. And the Zelda game for the cube can a potentially bad port of a game already out for almost a year do well. That's the question.

But look at the DS lineup for the year and the PSP's. It's not looking good for the psp. Not good at all.[/QUOTE]

No, 1.6 million units globally for a 'Game of the Year' candidate is not at all good. It is successful but well short of the much greater payoff it should deliver for Capcom. It should have done that much in the US alone but is greatly constrained by the combination of the GameCube's base and demographics. Check out how many GC games of lesser repute have sold comparably or much better in this region: http://the-magicbox.com/Chart-USPlatinum.shtml

This is a very good example of a product held back by its platform. I use this to illustrate why Nintendo is intent on growing the DS market to broaden the opportunities for developers and bring in far more money than just more sales of Mario DS. If bundling Mario with the hardware raises sales by as little as 20% over what they'd be otherwise, it will have a big payoff as publishers finalize their orders of titles launching later towards the Xmas season.
 
[quote name='maxflight']definitely not a personal attack, more so to get more DS sold to those who were still debating.

I do think, however, a better pack in might be meteos or something similar

YEs but most the developement costs for 64x4 are already paid for. Meteos is a new game and larger losses would then be taken.

epobirs,

One thing that needs to be noticed is that they announced the PS2 version to early. It didnt help their cube sales.
 
[quote name='epobirs']No, 1.6 million units globally for a 'Game of the Year' candidate is not at all good. It is successful but well short of the much greater payoff it should deliver for Capcom. It should have done that much in the US alone but is greatly constrained by the combination of the GameCube's base and demographics. Check out how many GC games of lesser repute have sold comparably or much better in this region: http://the-magicbox.com/Chart-USPlatinum.shtml

This is a very good example of a product held back by its platform. I use this to illustrate why Nintendo is intent on growing the DS market to broaden the opportunities for developers and bring in far more money than just more sales of Mario DS. If bundling Mario with the hardware raises sales by as little as 20% over what they'd be otherwise, it will have a big payoff as publishers finalize their orders of titles launching later towards the Xmas season.[/QUOTE]

Yes, of course I forgot. Measuring PS games versus a game that came out 4 months ago for a system with a much smaller user base is a great comparison.
 
I think it is a smart move by nintendo, but if they were going for the jugular, they would have done that when the psp was released state side...
 
[quote name='opportunity777']I don't understand how you can say at all they are not competing with each other, and then go back yourself after the yellow portion and say that Nintendo is trying to squash the competition.

Obviously, they are competing with each other. The target market may be different, but they are both "high-end" portable gaming machines that display 3D graphics. Even with a different target market they are still direct competitors because the markets are not exclusive.

What you said in yellow is like saying the GameCube doesn't compete with the XBOX.

Besides that the rest of your post was excellent you and you made a good point about the Value Pack and the pack-in game for the DS :)[/QUOTE]

Well personally I do think they are in competition but I know a lot of people get angry with that scenario. The way I look at it is they are gaming systems primarily. Regardless of specs you play games on them. If people buy the PSP solely for an MP3 player or a video player that is just dumb because there are better options for both out there. I think most would agree.

Now you could say that the PSP is a level above because it more closely matches a PS2 where the DS matches a N64 so it is no competition. However in the portable race the systems have always had a gap in capability until now. So it is really yet to be seen if that difference in technology will affect the outcome.

Now this is my opinion:

I have a PSP and it is sleek as hell and runs like a monster. A true console experience in your hands. Being as that is it has a few things that don't make sense for a portable. The battery life sucks.....now I am not amongst the group that complains about it because like most would say I can just charge it every night. I do however feel, like I'm sure most would a better and longer battery life would be welcomed with open arms. Load times....they suck....I got rid of THUG 2 Remix because they were just too damn long. I realize that it takes awhile longer to load a Tony Hawk level into memory but I don't always have that time while playing a portable. The suspend feature is good but the battery life doesn't really support it.

The games are great and they look beautiful. However if it wasn't for Hot Shots Golf I may have already traded the system in. Well if the games are great and look beautiful why? Most of my console purchases are based on the sole fact of the what I'm missing by not having it feeling. I jumped on the PSP because well I had a shit ton of credit and I wanted Spider-Man 2. I got the PSP went Holy WOW this is sick and then beat Spider-Man 2 in a few hours. Then I looked at the other games and while they are all great in there own right there aren't any exclusive titles that made me jump. I realize Lumines and MGA are some great games but just not my flavor. Although playing games like Prince of Persia and Devil May Cry on the go would be cool, if they aren't different enough from the PS2 versions I'll be let down. I usually try and mix up my gaming so nothing gets stale but if I'm playing Devil May Cry 3 at home and Devil May Cry on my PSP its going to get old fast.

Now the DS...I know that when most people see the system they think what a weird gimmick. What is up with that 2D crap? Well just like the PSP everyone is awaiting new games. Although we know the touch screen isn't anything new the software they are creating around it is. I got the chance to play Pac-Pix last night and although it did seem kind of like a demo I can honestly say I have never played anything like it. That is what pulls me in. Maybe it is all a gimmick but if it's fun then why not? I also dig 2D gaming. I know some people are instantly turned off by it but I can't just turn away from something that has given me so many years of enjoyment. If the game is good I'll play it. That's not to say I don't enjoy 3D either. The main draw for me of the DS is it is something different.

In the end it comes down to the games. As of right now the DS has games coming that I want. I think the PSP really just needs more exclusive titles and some non-PS2 type games to get it going. They need to set their minds to portable rather than power. I'll agree it is funny that a new 2D super mario bros. game has me excited but I can always go back to Super Mario Bros. 3 and have fun playing it so maybe replay value is where its at. Maybe I'm just crazy....it doesn't matter it's all an opinion anyway.
 
I'd consider buying a DS if it had one big large screen.

Whats the point of two screens? To save on touch-screen material?

Also the touch-screen idea is lame, I don't like it either.

In fact, I'd consider buying a DS if it were essentially a cheap, down-graded, PSP.

The majority of the games that come out on both PSP and DS look worse on the DS and come with superfluous things to touch. They're lame. The PSP has a removable battery so an upgraded one is sure to come, if not from Sony then from a third party.

I haven't bought a PSP yet, but I've played both the DS and PSP (my best friend has a DS and Metriod Prime Hunters is the suck) but I'm planning to. Of course my major concern is dead pixels and getting the sucker scratched.
 
I don't think they are going for the jugular, they ran similar promos when the gameboy was the only big player on the block. Personally I think it's just to promote the DS in general...I mean it seems like everyone forgot the big N is launching a new color plus they probably want to gear up early for the holiday rush (which usually has something to do with the competition).
 
[quote name='usickenme']I think they are going to the jugular by actually releasing games for the system. ;)[/QUOTE]

Nice one!

Plus you can get 2 DS games for the price of 1 PSP game (Almost)
 
[quote name='opportunity777']I don't understand how you can say at all they are not competing with each other, and then go back yourself after the yellow portion and say that Nintendo is trying to squash the competition.

Obviously, they are competing with each other. The target market may be different, but they are both "high-end" portable gaming machines that display 3D graphics. Even with a different target market they are still direct competitors because the markets are not exclusive.

What you said in yellow is like saying the GameCube doesn't compete with the XBOX.
[/QUOTE]

He only added those comments to convince everybody that he's not starting a flame war.
 
[quote name='usickenme']I think they are going to the jugular by actually releasing games for the system. ;)[/QUOTE]

Funny, the DS had zero noteworthy releases for a half year after its initial launch.
 
[quote name='peteyrose']Funny, the DS had zero noteworthy releases for a half year after its initial launch.[/QUOTE]

Yup and now its forgotten just like this drought will be eventually.
 
You all seem to forget that nintendo has repeatedly beaten the better handheld systems. From the GameGear to the Wonderswan. All have failed. And with Japan sales slagging so much and the DS e3 showing, and the nonexistant e3 showing for psp Sony is in trouble when it comes to the psp. Square has at least 3 games in development for the ds as well. DS releases for the next year look killer. Name some killer games for the psp. Because i'm looking for a reason to get it and can't find one. Ports, and useless expensive movies don't count.

Why will the psp beat the ds. Sales are better, game forcast is better, and 3'd parry support is stronger. At the moment DS is winning. And will continue to do so until sony releases a crop of must haves.
 
[quote name='Rabid Mammal Wax']I'd consider buying a DS if it had one big large screen.

Whats the point of two screens? To save on touch-screen material?

Also the touch-screen idea is lame, I don't like it either.

In fact, I'd consider buying a DS if it were essentially a cheap, down-graded, PSP.

The majority of the games that come out on both PSP and DS look worse on the DS and come with superfluous things to touch. They're lame. The PSP has a removable battery so an upgraded one is sure to come, if not from Sony then from a third party.

I haven't bought a PSP yet, but I've played both the DS and PSP (my best friend has a DS and Metriod Prime Hunters is the suck) but I'm planning to. Of course my major concern is dead pixels and getting the sucker scratched.[/QUOTE]

There are reasons for everything.

Two screens have certain advantages. Those two screens together cost a good bit less than the PSP's single screen. Every time you increase resolution and/or size on a LCD the defect rate also increases. As well, the two separate screen means that a defective unit is less costly in the maufacturing stage. Under the digitizer layer they're both the same unit. If one fails testing it can be replaced without affecting the other screen. If the defects in a PSP screen are limited to only one side it still means the whole screen is a loss.

Sony is more tolerant of defective pixels for lack of choice. The PSP would be more expensive and less available numerically if they had the low defect tolerance Nintendo is able to achieve easily. Part of Nintendo's handheld strategy has been to stick with older well established parts whose quality and availability are not in doubt.

You don't like the touchscreen idea but have you really tried it with a game that uses it well? While the PSP's analog nub is far better for ports of games that used an analog stick, the true touchscreen games are bringing something new to the mainstream. There have been some interesting things on PDAs but very few people have seen those compared to the number of DS units already sold. Trying to do what the touchscreen offers with an analog stick is like trying to play lightgun games with an analog stick. It works but isn't much fun compared to the gun.

There are plenty of PSP games I expect to buy when they turn up cheap that would be far reduced in visceral quality on the DS but there are DS games that simply cannot be reproduced on the PSP in terms of gameplay. This makes owning both hadheld completely reasonable to me.
 
[quote name='Tromack']Yes, of course I forgot. Measuring PS games versus a game that came out 4 months ago for a system with a much smaller user base is a great comparison.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it is, because it goes directly to the point I'm making. Installed base matters. Nintendo had the hottest new M-rated title for several months but produced sales that were a fraction of what similarly acclaimed titles had done in shorter spans on platforms with better numbers and a higher percentage of likely buyers for M-rated titles. There is a reason GTA doesn't get GameCube ports. It isn't just the size of the installed base, especially when compared to Xbox, but also the poor demographic for such a game. Several of those earlier GameCube hits did the same amount of business within a month of launch because they were a better match for the platform.

A big part of Nintendogs value was not merely in selling a ton of units and new DS sales, but that so many of those were going to a different group of people than the previous buyers. The increased numbers made the platform more attractive to publishers in general but the increase in demographic diversity also serves to attract titles that might otherwise have seen console versions or PSP versions only. It remains to be seen if Nintendo can replicate that by even half in the US but in the meantime, foregoing further profits on Mario DS to expand the base is good business practice.
 
[quote name='j.elles']You all seem to forget that nintendo has repeatedly beaten the better handheld systems. From the GameGear to the Wonderswan. All have failed. And with Japan sales slagging so much and the DS e3 showing, and the nonexistant e3 showing for psp Sony is in trouble when it comes to the psp. Square has at least 3 games in development for the ds as well. DS releases for the next year look killer. Name some killer games for the psp. Because i'm looking for a reason to get it and can't find one. Ports, and useless expensive movies don't count.

Why will the psp beat the ds. Sales are better, game forcast is better, and 3'd parry support is stronger. At the moment DS is winning. And will continue to do so until sony releases a crop of must haves.[/QUOTE]

At this point it isn't a matter of one winning and the other losing. The Ds is turning into a good business. The PSP is still undecided in that regard. It doesn't have to make more money than the DS. It has to make money, period.
 
[quote name='Snake2715'][quote name='maxflight']definitely not a personal attack, more so to get more DS sold to those who were still debating.

I do think, however, a better pack in might be meteos or something similar

YEs but most the developement costs for 64x4 are already paid for. Meteos is a new game and larger losses would then be taken.

epobirs,

One thing that needs to be noticed is that they announced the PS2 version to early. It didnt help their cube sales.[/QUOTE]

Did anyone really believe this would be an exclusive for more than a year? The only reason it's getting that long is the late start on the port. The poor performance of other Capcom titles for the GC had already lead to them announcing their intention to port Viewtiful Joe and others before RE4 was released. A bigger mystery is why RE0 has been ported around. Perhaps there will be yet another round of RE ports in the next generation.

As I recall there was also almost immediate discussion of how much would be lost on the PS2 version of RE4 to make it work. It was almost a given that it would be of lesser quality. The only question was how much. OTOH, GTA:SA doesn't appear to have lost any great amount of sales on the PS2 even though it was known all along that an Xbox version, with plenty of prior indicators of it being superior, would be along in well less than a year.

This was the GC demographic problem all over again. Those gamers with a preference for M-rated games weren't going to buy a GC for the few exclusives it could offer in that area. Perhaps when it drops to $50 or when the GC library is part of the Revolution package but that is a long time to wait if you're in Capcom's shoes.

Isn't Meteos a second party title Nintendo is publishing? That would be another major reason against bundling it. Giving away something you have to pay roayties on doesn't usually sit well with console makers.
 
[quote name='Rabid Mammal Wax']I'd consider buying a DS if it had one big large screen.

Whats the point of two screens? To save on touch-screen material?

Also the touch-screen idea is lame, I don't like it either.

In fact, I'd consider buying a DS if it were essentially a cheap, down-graded, PSP.

The majority of the games that come out on both PSP and DS look worse on the DS and come with superfluous things to touch. They're lame. The PSP has a removable battery so an upgraded one is sure to come, if not from Sony then from a third party.

I haven't bought a PSP yet, but I've played both the DS and PSP (my best friend has a DS and Metriod Prime Hunters is the suck) but I'm planning to. Of course my major concern is dead pixels and getting the sucker scratched.[/QUOTE]

1) The point of two screens is to (attempt) to produce new, innovative gaming experiences. It hasn't been accomplished yet, though.

2) Exactly how many games have been released on both PSP and DS?

3) Metroid Prime Hunters is only a demo. You haven't even played the full version.

In other words, I deem you a Sony fanboy. Your overusage of the word "lame" proves my point.
 
[quote name='epobirs'] Did anyone really believe this would be an exclusive for more than a year? The only reason it's getting that long is the late start on the port. The poor performance of other Capcom titles for the GC had already lead to them announcing their intention to port Viewtiful Joe and others before RE4 was released. [/QUOTE]

I totally agree, although to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, I'd like to point out that while Sony's system also logically seemed to be the better base for all of its one-time Cube exclusives, Viewtiful Joe sold far, far worse than Capcom expected when it was ported over (in fact, more year-old Cube versions were sold than PS2 versions the week it was released for the PS2), and that game got good critical reviews and had little technical loss between platforms. The point? Not sure there is one.

And just to make this germain to the OP, I think the pack-in is a wise move on Nintendo's part: why wait until the PSP DOES have some killer app (GTA-PSP or whatever) to start taking them seriously?
 
Screenshots released were bogus, and no information is present about what the game is like. For GTA portable on psp that is.

But trq has a point. Gamecube ports to playstation 2 haven't done that well, and in fact have sold less in many if not all cases. And remember the head of RE4 who left Capcom said that RE4 was built to utilize the cube, so it has a high chance of being a bad port, and bad sales. And RE has not had a release in a long time. And remakes and prequels like RE0 don't really count. So comparing them to GTA, and Halo isn't fair.

I'm willing to listen though to other peoples opinions. List some games that arent Halo, GTA level hype that have sold a lot better then RE4 in the same period. less then 5 months. Over 1.6 million in that time is good in my book.
 
[quote name='j.elles']Screenshots released were bogus, and no information is present about what the game is like. For GTA portable on psp that is.

But trq has a point. Gamecube ports to playstation 2 haven't done that well, and in fact have sold less in many if not all cases. And remember the head of RE4 who left Capcom said that RE4 was built to utilize the cube, so it has a high chance of being a bad port, and bad sales. And RE has not had a release in a long time. And remakes and prequels like RE0 don't really count. So comparing them to GTA, and Halo isn't fair.

I'm willing to listen though to other peoples opinions. List some games that arent Halo, GTA level hype that have sold a lot better then RE4 in the same period. less then 5 months. Over 1.6 million in that time is good in my book.[/QUOTE]

How is it unfair? Nintendo knew what they had and promoted RE4 heavily at the preceding E3. They tried to give it as much hype as possible but the fact remained that those not interested in the bulk of what the GameCube offered weren't going to buy the machine just for RE4 and what little else there that offered any interest.

And why doesn't RE0 count? An exclusive entry into a bestselling series doesn't count? Apparently this is some sort of special rule for Nintendo that doesn't apply elsewhere.

How many GameCube to PS2 ports are there to judge by? It is far, far more frequent that a title originates on PS2 and gets ported to GameCube. Viewtiful Joe is hardly an indicator of anything as the series has been a bad seller everywhere. While critically acclaimed it has done terribly in the mainstream market. The PS2 port sales only served to confirm the general lack of interest. RE4, OTOH, is part of a series with very high mainstream success. Unless the PS2 version is wretchedly bad there is every reason to expect it will quickly match and exceed the GameCube version's sales, largely because a vastly larger audience for that type of game already owns a PS2.

This will figure into future developer decisions. Many prominent Xbox exclusive titles (console exclusive, that is) went to that platform despite a much smaller base than the PS2 for a combination of technical needs of the game and the demography of the platform. Likewise, there are going to be similar PSP exclusives based on both the functional capabilities and the percerption of who the average PSP owner is. In many case there will be games that could be done reasonably well on the DS but the expectation of what that user base will buy relative to the overall installed base will keep those ports from being produced. The been counters will make their estimates, say 10 million installed but only 5% interest in this genre vs. 4 million installed of this other platform but with 60% interest in the genre.

It's all educated guess but that is all they've got to work with when deciding how to spend millions of dollars.
 
Man prequels don't count. Prequels don't do well. And hype for RE4. I didn't hear any of it. I saw tons of GTA, and Halo hype. None for RE4. And I know at least 8 people in my dallas area that agree with me.

Anyway agree to disagee. You are obviusly overflowing with sony love and support. We will see by the end of the year what happens. And until then it's all speculation.

If as hostile as it was received, wind waker can sell about 4 million I think in the coming year RE4 will do fine. I might be wrong but I don't think so. And RE and survival horror has never been a huge genre. I mean back on playstation the graphics are the main thing that pushed it. That and the lack of good games at the time. There was a lot of crap there for a while. Not to say RE doesn't sell well for the gameplay, but in the end I hold that given time it will do well. Plus when people pick up Zelda this fall they will probaly pick up RE4 as well.

Anyway enough arguing theres abviously not going to be a change of opinion here. And I will always wonder why you can't understand that the delay from RE3 to 4, the true sequel hurt the series. But you gotta admit with the reviews, and the Playstation release sales for RE4 will jump for the cube especially because the playstation odds are will handle the game as well as another system designed game, Splinter cell 3 did.
 
It's true that Capcom and Nintendo must be disappointed with the sales figure for RE4, but I don't think user base and market share are solely to blame. Looking at the link you posted, it seems like interest in the RE franchise might be waning. RE3 only sold about half of what the original did. Also it seems for the most part all franchises tend to decline in popularity/sales. It happened to MGS, Tomb Raider, DMC, Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, Tekken, Tony Hawk, Final Fantasy, Jak, etc . . .
 
The PSP differs from the DS because it is made for adults unlike the DS. The DS does not have games that adults enjoy in fact personally I think that the N-Gage has better adult games then the DS. Giving Mario DS with the DS is only going to cause more kids to buy the DS not adults so have fun brats.
 
Well for now thats correct. But Mario Kart was mostly college kids. And thats online. Plus Metroid hunters, all the RPGs from square to list a few CrysralC Secret of mana and FF3, and others like Lunar Genesis coming. Plus Age of Empires, Trauma Center (with the praise from doctors and the like seems adult), Shogun Empires, the new Fire Emblem, Splinter Cell, Plus those wierd Brain games coming from Japan. They may do well in Japan but here . . .
Anyway thats just what I can remember from a list at E3 I saw a few weeks ago so it's all good for adult gamers in the next year or so.

But for now slim pickings I agree.
 
[quote name='fire17']The PSP differs from the DS because it is made for adults unlike the DS. The DS does not have games that adults enjoy in fact personally I think that the N-Gage has better adult games then the DS. Giving Mario DS with the DS is only going to cause more kids to buy the DS not adults so have fun brats.[/QUOTE]

stupidest post ever ^ the two systems are going after everyone. Not one age group. You'll see.
Plus, kids want the systems with the best graphics, they dont see past that. Adults look at the games and sees which one has the games that they will enjoy the most.

ON topic now, i think both systems will do well. One system doesn't have to fail for the other to succeed. The two systems are quite different. I will most likely pick both up. Right now i am liking the DS's future releases but nothing on the PSP has struck my attention, most everything on it right now are just ports, or the same things that we are seeing on the PS2. The DS has many ports, but it also has exclusive games that we have never seen on other systems because of the touch screen. Both systems will do very well though because both were well made and even though itlooks as though there are no good games for either right now, they are comming.
 
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