It's officially a pattern: Obama bows to Japanese emperor

Why America is so special and the greatest country on Earth: our problems are so miniscule that we have time to dissect how our President greets other world leaders.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']And there you have it, boys and girls.

When the question arises: "Mommy, what is the American progressive movement all about?"
When short on time, or speaking to a child, Dmaul has just provided us with the easiest way to answer that, in a way that anyone can understand.[/QUOTE]

Or we can just say it's about shouting down pea brains like you that think the US is the greatest thing since sliced bread and can go around policing the world and not treating foreign leaders with respect by greeting them in the normal ways in their culture.

The US is a great place to live, but there are any number of other countries I'd be just as happy living in. As such, I have no problem with out leader finally acting like a global citizen rather than an elitist who thinks the US should rule the world. It's a global society now, and becoming more so everyday. The days of the US or any other single country dominating global affairs is over.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Or we can just say it's about shouting down pea brains like you that think the US is the greatest thing since sliced bread and can go around policing the world and not treating foreign leaders with respect by greeting them in the normal ways in their culture.[/quote]

So not only are you going to sink into personal attacks but you are going to outright misrepresent my positions on these subjects? How disappointing. I expect better out of someone I've been in so many discussions with over the years. Sometimes I wonder if your constant bragging about your education has something to do with distractions from your own immaturity and personal dabbling in class elitism.

1 - I do not believe the US is the greatest thing since sliced bread (although I think it's founders wanted it to be, and it may have been at one point).

2 - I do not believe the US should be policing the world. If you paid attention, I always advocate pulling all foreign troops back within our own borders and scaling down the military to do nothing but protect our borders.

3- I have not once posted in this thread (or any other) about having issues with the way Obama greets foreign leaders. If you mentally group me with those those people then that's your mistake and my disappointment. When Obama goes to some remote island in the Indian ocean where it's customary to suck the kings cock before speaking, I fully expect Obama to do it, and I won't give a shit then either.

My comment on what you said was simply an illustration of what I believe to be one of the root tenants of the progressive movement. You aren't arguing I was wrong, because I wasn't. Instead, because you feel I am predisposed to be a flag waving nationalist, you call me names. Classy.


The US is a great place to live, but there are any number of other countries I'd be just as happy living in. As such, I have no problem with out leader finally acting like a global citizen rather than an elitist who thinks the US should rule the world. It's a global society now, and becoming more so everyday. The days of the US or any other single country dominating global affairs is over.
Click to expand...

Maybe so. So be it.
So long as you also realize what we are trading for. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is somehow a "Better" thing. The days of just a few pan-national elitist ultra-powerful banks and corporations ruling the world are just beginning. The real discussion is how, if at all, that's better than a few super powerful countries ruling the world.
 
Maybe it's just me but "need not bow" doesn't forbid doing it, it just says it is not required.

So what, Nixon, Eisenhower, Clinton, also did it.

Congrats, wing nuts. In one year, You've already become crazier and more petty than the worst of the left wing did in 8 years.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']Why America is so special and the greatest country on Earth: our problems are so miniscule that we have time to dissect how our President greets other world leaders.[/QUOTE]
Good point.
 
In that case thrust, you need to learn to post your opinions more articulately and clearly, rather than just drive by attacks on progressives etc. that don't make sense in the context of the current discussion.

When you quote a post saying the country isn't anything special, and respond with just that attack, it's going to be interpreted as disagreeing with that statement and saying progressives hate the US etc. etc.

I think you've been watching too much cable news and have gotten even worse about spouting lots of rhetoric and no substance.
 
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[quote name='IRHari'].
OMGWTFBBQ [/QUOTE]

while I'm sure this has been around for ages, this is the first time I've seen OMGWTFBBQ and I laughed inappropriately loud in the office.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yes, our tradition is stupid and US-centric. Again, we're nothing special and our leader shouldn't go around acting like we're superior. They should treat other world leaders--of allies at least--as equals.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. You are the only one on this thread (so far) who has had an adult comment in reply. This is a legitimate position, albeit one I disagree with. I don't think we should bow down to anyone, especially tyrants and royalty, something this nation was founded in opposition to. Also other nations' leaders don't bow down like this. But it's nice to have an adult response and discussion.
 
[quote name='gareman']
050426_BUSH-ABDULLAH_ex.jpg
[/QUOTE]

That sure was creepy when Bush did that. I wonder if we missed the necking afterwards in private?

[quote name='IRHari']^above pic is evidence that elprincipe is woefully ignorant, is a craven fool, doesn't do his research, and is an asshole.[/QUOTE]

If you are going to be insulting, at least be right. You aren't, so shut up.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']I actually think the handshake tradition is pretty cool. Of course, our foreign policy has been ridiculous in so many ways in the last 100 years that the spirit of the tradition is lost. All in all, I don't think the way America's leaders greet other world leaders, regardless of the method chosen, is a big deal.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, that makes two adults who have replied. See my above comment in response to dmaul.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Thank you. You are the only one on this thread (so far) who has had an adult comment in reply. This is a legitimate position, albeit one I disagree with. I don't think we should bow down to anyone, especially tyrants and royalty, something this nation was founded in opposition to. Also other nations' leaders don't bow down like this. But it's nice to have an adult response and discussion.[/QUOTE]
I could go on and explain why this country wasn't founded on not bowing down to royalty, but i get the feeling you'd ignore it anyway.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']This is something I (think I) have seen you say before, an' I'm curious just what it is that you're talking about.[/QUOTE]

I'm talking about how, wherever he goes, all we hear from Obama is how terrible America is, how badly we have treated other countries, or whatever. We never hear about how we have helped others, freed millions from tyranny, and the like. I don't think he should ignore bad policies that were in place in the past, but realize that by only harping on these and not noting the good ones (which outstrip the bad by a large margin) you are demeaning our country, looking weak and not advancing our interests.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']I could go on and explain why this country wasn't founded on not bowing down to royalty, but i get the feeling you'd ignore it anyway.[/QUOTE]

Why would I ignore it? I disagree with what you are saying, but please provide some supporting arguments.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']Why America is so special and the greatest country on Earth: our problems are so miniscule that we have time to dissect how our President greets other world leaders.[/QUOTE]

If only, my friend ;)
 
You voted for Bush twice didn't you? Demeaning our country and making us look weak? Yea god forbid we aren't bombing the slanty eyed people or shooting the brown people to make our e-penises bigger. Take your high and mighty self elsewhere. You are lowering everyone's IQ.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Why would I ignore it? I disagree with what you are saying, but please provide some supporting arguments.[/QUOTE]
Because it isn't our points you disagree with, you disagree with us on some sort of fundamental level, so i could list 100 different reasons why and it wouldn't matter.

If you'd really like to know, take a world civ class, hopefully that professor can get you to see. That's assuming you aren't one of those "damn college liberals" types.
 
[quote name='slickkill77']You voted for Bush twice didn't you? Demeaning our country and making us look weak? Yea god forbid we aren't bombing the slanty eyed people or shooting the brown people to make our e-penises bigger. Take your high and mighty self elsewhere. You are lowering everyone's IQ.[/QUOTE]

I've lost count of the insipid children on this thread. This must make at least a dozen. You have no idea who I voted for or what I believe, so GTFO.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Because it isn't our points you disagree with, you disagree with us on some sort of fundamental level, so i could list 100 different reasons why and it wouldn't matter.

If you'd really like to know, take a world civ class, hopefully that professor can get you to see. That's assuming you aren't one of those "damn college liberals" types.[/QUOTE]

Excuses excuses. I'm puzzled why you say I disagree with you "on some sort of fundamental level" (whatever that means) instead of your points. You haven't even made any points on this thread, except for saying in your original reply that it was a sign of respect, which I refuted with proof that other U.S. officials (presidents, vice presidents, generals) haven't bowed, and it's been our protocol for more than 200 years not to bow. Dmaul and one other have made the argument that this is the wrong protocol, or that it doesn't matter. I disagreed, but not because of who said it. Please enlighten me as to where I indicated that I disagree with whatever you say (if that's what you mean).

And I'll be waiting for you to post an argument in reply to mine instead of just asserting you are right.
 
Man... Get a life... lol

It's like someone on PETA complaining someone killed an insect. Only instead of PETA it's you're sorry ass being as useful as a fucking wall that won't listen to any other answer than you supposedly being right.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Excuses excuses. I'm puzzled why you say I disagree with you "on some sort of fundamental level" (whatever that means) instead of your points. You haven't even made any points on this thread, except for saying in your original reply that it was a sign of respect, which I refuted with proof that other U.S. officials (presidents, vice presidents, generals) haven't bowed, and it's been our protocol for more than 200 years not to bow. Dmaul and one other have made the argument that this is the wrong protocol, or that it doesn't matter. I disagreed, but not because of who said it. Please enlighten me as to where I indicated that I disagree with whatever you say (if that's what you mean).

And I'll be waiting for you to post an argument in reply to mine instead of just asserting you are right.[/QUOTE]
If you'll re-read my post, you'll see i said you disagree with "us.";)

Btw, when Franklin and Adams asked for the help of the French during the American Revolution, you can bet they bowed to King Louis.What does that matter though, not like they were important people or anything.

As i said before, you disagree with us on a fundamental level. You believe America should bow to no one, you aren't going to change that opinion. I don't know where you got that opinion, an over abundance of patriotism perhaps? Either way, you seem to think the US is better than everyone else and we should make sure they know it at every opportunity.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']If you'll re-read my post, you'll see i said you disagree with "us.";)

Btw, when Franklin and Adams asked for the help of the French during the American Revolution, you can bet they bowed to King Louis.What does that matter though, not like they were important people or anything.

As i said before, you disagree with us on a fundamental level. You believe America should bow to no one, you aren't going to change that opinion. I don't know where you got that opinion, an over abundance of patriotism perhaps? Either way, you seem to think the US is better than everyone else and we should make sure they know it at every opportunity.[/QUOTE]

Ah, I see what you are saying. Our disagreement is that you think we shouldn't feel America is a better country than others, but just one of many, maybe as good as France or Russia on a good day. Thanks for clarifying. Yes, I do disagree. I've gotten that opinion based on a combination of my upbringing, study and world travel I suppose. Yes, I will definitely take even Washington, D.C. (but even better other parts of the country, even though I work in D.C.) over London or Paris any day, not that they aren't lovely places in their own way.

No idea on Franklin and Adams. I would wager you are right and they bowed, but I don't know unless you have a source obviously.

Here is some more info for the adults present on the thread.

First, a video of other world leaders meeting the Japanese emperor. As you can see, none in the video bows except Obama. Now, I am somewhat skeptical since this was made by a local Republican Party chapter, so they may be omitting some leaders who met with the emperor and did bow. Maybe someone can dig up pictures of other leaders bowing to the emperor. But it is quite a contrast between Cheney (one of those in the video) and Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U6fL7Y4BZA&feature=player_embedded

And here is some evidence I found on the other side of this debate: pictures of Nixon and Eisenhower. I don't see Nixon bowing in this picture, just leaning over to talk...maybe a quick mutual bow, not sure from the one still photo. In any case it's not anything like Obama's bow. But it does seem Eisenhower did bow to Charles de Gaulle, which I am surprised to see a picture of. So here we go.

20091116-fncbow1.jpg

20091116-fncbow2.jpg


Perhaps if those who don't care and those who only want to engage in name-calling will clear out, someone with an interest and ability to put together two coherent sentences (there were a couple of you) will reply.

EDIT: one more, Bush bowing to the Pope.

bush_bow_pope.jpg
 
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[quote name='elprincipe']I'm talking about how, wherever he goes, all we hear from Obama is how terrible America is, how badly we have treated other countries, or whatever. We never hear about how we have helped others, freed millions from tyranny, and the like. I don't think he should ignore bad policies that were in place in the past, but realize that by only harping on these and not noting the good ones (which outstrip the bad by a large margin) you are demeaning our country, looking weak and not advancing our interests.[/QUOTE]
That... doesn't really help. I was asking more for specific quotes. Or links to quotes. Ah, fuck, whatever.
 
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there are bigger things to worry about, and obama bowing to show respect to an elder/world leader especially in a country that has that tradition is not something we should prioritize.

stop feeding the troll guys.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']That sure was creepy when Bush did that. I wonder if we missed the necking afterwards in private?
[/QUOTE]

bush_kiss_saudi.jpg



On a more serious note, I sent my wife the Hannity piece about it and here is what she wrote:
It’s weird, but no news in Japan made a point about it. Obviously, Japanese media is more focused on what he discussed with the Prime Minister and not so much on the cursory meeting with the emperor. I don’t think it was such a big deal for Japanese media either way – a bow can’t be too deep so that it would ever become offensive. I think it offended American conservatives who think they are so great that their president should never bow to a foreigner.
Click to expand...
 
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Hey, Prince, what did they talk about after the bow?

If you look it up you're cheating (on yourself, not me).
 
That picture of two men kissing just made several conservatives question their sexuality.

Back on topic, why do we have to act like we're the superior country? We all hate the guy that rubs his shit in our faces but we yearn to act like it as a country. Why do we condone behavior on an international level that we would chastise on a local or personal level?
 
[quote name='The Crotch']...
First ever Cheapy post in this subforum?[/QUOTE]

I think he used to post in here more, but that was before my time.

I only vaguely remember alonzo and PAD (if that's right) arguing about whatever-the-fuck it was they argued about.

[quote name='depascal22']Back on topic, why do we have to act like we're the superior country? We all hate the guy that rubs his shit in our faces but we yearn to act like it as a country. Why do we condone behavior on an international level that we would chastise on a local or personal level?[/QUOTE]

Isn't that how it usually works though? Hate the shit rubbing unless you're the one doing it. On an international level it lets even the poorest US asshole feel important and powerful. Kind of like how rich white landowners turned poor white guys on minorities by acting like they had something in common that made them all better.
 
Alright, i'm through with this. You need a source to believe that diplomats bowed to the King of France, i'm through with this.
 
[quote name='Cheese']Hey, Prince, what did they talk about after the bow?

If you look it up you're cheating (on yourself, not me).[/QUOTE]

I wasn't in the meeting, but I'm sure they talked about the usual U.S.-Japan issues: North Korea, trade, U.S. military bases in Japan, etc. Not that it really matters that much, since the emperor is not where power resides.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Alright, i'm through with this. You need a source to believe that diplomats bowed to the King of France, i'm through with this.[/QUOTE]

The what now? I said I suspected you were right but I didn't know, not that I wanted or needed proof either way, since I really am not that interested.
 
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