Joe Wilson proves he's the biggest idiot in congress

[quote name='bvharris']In the yokel's defense, it's entirely possible that wasn't his meaning. I use that expression sometimes and the potential racial undertones never factor in, though I'm aware of them. It's conceivable that the guy simply didn't know that spade can also be an ethnic slur, I'm sure many don't. It's a common expression.[/QUOTE]

That's entirely plausible. That doesn't make it less bothersome.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Question - and someone help me out here...

I've read several places that the plan on the table will require that illegal immigrants have health coverage*, but will not allow them to be covered by the proposed government option. Is this true?

*Aside from the obvious "How are we going to make sure they're covered when we can't even enforce existing laws in regards to them as it is?"[/QUOTE]

Anyone?
 
I think the people making that argument think that basically because the plan (1) mandates care and (2) doesn't check IDs, it is the loophole that makes the above (or a portion of it) plausible.

In short, illegals can hide and get care by not outing themselves as residents.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Anyone?[/QUOTE]

Who says that? I don't know of anything in the bill (HR 3200) that would require illegal immigrants to have anything (or anyone afaik, that was one big difference between Clinton and Obama's plan).
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I think the people making that argument think that basically because the plan (1) mandates care and (2) doesn't check IDs, it is the loophole that makes the above (or a portion of it) plausible.

In short, illegals can hide and get care by not outing themselves as residents.[/QUOTE]
Wait... now Myke is saying that Obama lied? What is the world coming to? ;)

Seriously, though - I'm actually a little interested in the idea that illegal immigrants will be mandated to have health coverage, but won't be eligible for the public option. I'd love to know how they plan to enforce this, since they don't enforce the majority of the laws pertaining to illegal immigrants as it is...
 
[quote name='SpazX']Who says that? I don't know of anything in the bill (HR 3200) that would require illegal immigrants to have anything (or anyone afaik, that was one big difference between Clinton and Obama's plan).[/QUOTE]

Have you been reading this thread? ;)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/27/health.care.immigrants/
Immigrants living illegally in the United States could be mandated to have health insurance under the proposed health care reform bill but would be ineligible to receive subsidies to afford such coverage, a report from the Congressional Research Service says.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Wait... now Myke is saying that Obama lied? What is the world coming to? ;)

Seriously, though - I'm actually a little interested in the idea that illegal immigrants will be mandated to have health coverage, but won't be eligible for the public option. I'd love to know how they plan to enforce this, since they don't enforce the majority of the laws pertaining to illegal immigrants as it is...[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying he lied, as they're not supposed to receive care. There aren't any provisions to filter out legal and illegal residents, though. Which is very different from saying he lied.

Enforcing other illegal immigration statutes would take care of abuse of the above. It's a bit of a misleading thing to say that it allows illegals to get insurance. Illegals get all kinds of things unless we check IDs for every transaction we make.
 
Enforcing immigration laws takes away cheap labor. Conservatives will continue to bitch about it while secretly wishing that nothing ever happens. They will also continue to distract the public with fearmongering that illegal immigrants will be the kings of the hill with free health care and zero income taxes.
 
the same texas governor who wanted to secede from the union?

bye texas, don't let the door hit your dumb shit christian fundamentalist board of education on the way out!

/endtexasrant
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']as a conservative governor (texas) moves texas rangers to the border to help secure it. you're right, they're all talk.[/QUOTE]

They could move thousands of rangers to the border and it still won't stem the flow of illegals. Again, it's a show of force to garner votes with the right wing of the base. I'm pretty sure you can still find hundreds of eager Mexicans at Lowe's across the state.
 
Apparently conservatives like Joe Wilson and those that support him and his behavior only wish for the other side to respect and have reverence for the President only when the President is someone from their own party. Otherwise, just be as big of assholes as you can...respect and proper congressional behavior be damned.

Bush lied countless times...never heard any Dems in 8 years yell out at him in a speech and call him one though. Took only 8 months for the Repubs.
 
NYT Op-ed proving why it's the finest, most well-thought out paper in the nation.

Mr. Obama didn’t lie. The bills before Congress declare illegal immigrants to be ineligible for subsidized benefits. It is impossible to imagine any final bill doing otherwise. Mr. Wilson was a boor, but some Republicans still insist that he was right because the bill doesn’t ensure that the undocumented have no insurance.

Time for a reality check. Illegal immigrants are here. They are not eligible for Medicaid, but many still get sick and many get care, often in emergency rooms. The current proposals would likely not stop them from using their money to buy coverage through an insurance exchange, without subsidies. Just as they can do now.

Should we take a harder line? Force people to prove citizenship in emergency rooms? That’s illegal, for good reason. Make verification requirements so onerous that not a single illegal immigrant slips through? Very expensive, and not smart. It would be highly likely to snag deserving citizens — like old people who don’t have their original birth certificates. And besides, we’ve tried that: A House oversight committee reviewed six state Medicaid programs in 2007 and found that verification rules had cost the federal government an additional $8.3 million. They caught exactly eight illegal immigrants.

In the case of an epidemic, like swine flu, should illegal immigrants go untreated so they can infect legal residents and American citizens?

Hard-line Republicans insist that they will fight for citizenship verification. They could, in theory, get the country to spend whatever it takes to do that and proudly report back to their voters. But there is a line beyond which antipathy to the undocumented can be damaging to those voters’ health, not to mention the federal budget. Mr. Wilson and his admirers seem to have crossed it.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Yeah, that excerpt totally convinced me; only the best paper in the nation would publish such groundbreaking incontrovertible logic.[/QUOTE]

If an illegal immigrant has TB and won't be deported any time soon, would you rather he infect a few dozen more people or be treated with some antibiotics?
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']as a conservative governor (texas) moves texas rangers to the border to help secure it. you're right, they're all talk.[/QUOTE]
Don't even think about believing that Perry is serious about immigration. He could not POSSIBLY care less. Everything he's doing is straight out of the playbook to get re-elected because he's facing a super heavyweight Republican contender for governor next year. He's burning state money sending a bunch of people down there to stand around so he can put together 30 second political ads based on it.

Most people hate it because of the waste without any semblance of a plan. But hey, he's got a direct line to the lowest common denominator and it's obviously been responded to. Good for you.

/damn yankees.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']If an illegal immigrant has TB and won't be deported any time soon, would you rather he infect a few dozen more people or be treated with some antibiotics?[/QUOTE]

My comment wasn't about illegal aliens receiving healthcare. I actually care very little about that subject. It was about myke's assertion on the NYT.

My stance on the illegal issue is that it will be the least of our concerns if this overhaul passes.
 
Looks like people are finally calling this out for what it is: Racism. Typical white southerner just couldn't stand the fact that we have a black President.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']While watching the speech I was shocked when that happened.

Afterwards, I felt foolish for being shocked. I don't get the big deal and the guy should not have apologized. If people are not allowed to vocally dissent then people should not be allowed to cheer either. Why the double standard?

Who says these speeches are only for vocally agreeing or silently staying quiet? Where is that rule written?

The British have it right. At least they understand and practice free speech better than we do.[/QUOTE]




[quote name='bmulligan']I totally agree. I started reading this thread and my mind went directly to every British parlimentary debate I've ever watched. At least, every one I've seen in HoC.

This was not a traditional address. It's sole purpose was to advertise and push his position on the healthcare issue, and unabashedly, a use of the 'bully pulpit'. In that sense, I think this should outbursting should become a more common practice. If the voice of the people at town hall meetings isn't valid to some, where else will the living voice of the people be heard if not from their representatives on live television?[/QUOTE]

The British comparison is apples to oranges. Every Wednesday (yes, every week) at midday the PM goes to parliament for what is called 'Question Hour' where it's in the MPs' tradition to yell and shout at the PM. I wouldn't consider this speech of Obama a weekly occurrence or some political TV show (it's damned entertaining while on lunch break).

Here's a much more comparable Parliamentary proceeding to Obama's situation, with dissent and all (but in a much more civilized way):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6xxiw

Still, the Brits love to take the piss outta each other, it's their culture (and unfortunately not ours).
 
I don't think it could be kept civil here. Wouldn't be long before someone started getting personal with insults and stuff.
 
See, the thing is, people in congress and the senate get personal all the time. But they do it in side-show interviews and backhanded ways. I am to the point now with my fed-upedness with politics that I'd much prefer let them just get it all out to each others faces on live TV.

I'm really sick of most of the news each week being "Wow, Senator X said this about the President...... Isn't that controversial? Now lets get every talking head in the country to discuss it for the next 10 days". And the American cable watching public drinks it up like free milk.
 
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