Kane & Lynch didn't sell 1,000,000 & Zack & Wiki didn't bomb, and other sales facts..

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For a franchise that's supposed to make PS3 #1, 2 million for 2 and even less for MGS3 kinda disappoint. I'm sure it had a lot in Japan, but still. You've upset me. :bomb:
 
I notice that for most of the games you quoted that had sequels, the second one did worse than the first (and some series just kept sliding as the number of sequels increased). What are some examples where the sequels actually showed improving numbers over the original--not including sports games, like Madden? (And has that been the case where a series of 3 or more games had constantly increasing numbers?)
 
Not that i rly wana bring up Halo, but the best example of increasing sales with titles is the Halo Series, no doubt. I can't think of many others. Guitar Hero? GTA? That's all i got.
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']While we're at it, lets hear sales for Enchanted Arms for the PS3. Since we all know the game "flopped" on the 360 and it needed to be put on the PS3 to recoup sales.[/QUOTE]

Enchanted Arms PS3 - 64k

[quote name='BlueLobstah']That's really sad. That's certainly not encouraging for other publishers.

Another thing I'm interested in, what were the numbers for Twilight Princess (GC/Wii)?[/QUOTE]

Indeed, it really is sad. And with a few exceptions, I don't see that changing anytime soon, at least, not until Wii II with it's (slightly) more advanced graphics.

Twilight Princess GCN - 751k
Twilight Princess Wii - 1.9M

[quote name='The Crotch']In that case, how did Fire Emblem 7 and 8 do? And Sigma Star Saga? Also, if you have PSP numbers, how well did FFT sell?[/QUOTE]

You guys and your crazy FE sequel numbers...

FE Sacred Stones - 351k
FE GBA - 393k

I think it's interesting that most people here are much more interested in the slightly more obscure titles. Yeah, we've talked about Madden and MGS, but it's these smaller titles and series that could really use the exposure that sales numbers could bring. NPD peoples...if you're reading this, don't hate. Listen.

[quote name='the_punisher']For a franchise that's supposed to make PS3 #1, 2 million for 2 and even less for MGS3 kinda disappoint. I'm sure it had a lot in Japan, but still. You've upset me. :bomb:[/QUOTE]

I do like to poop in people's cereal. But really, MGS was the 25th best selling PS2 title, which says a lot considering how many Maddens, Need for Speeds, Tony Hawks and GTAs are in front of it.
 
In case i didn't say it before, it's really cool that a game developer actually comes to forums and talks to people. What specifically do you do? And have you met any gmae developers you really wanted to meet/ were like a dream come true (off the top of my head David Jaffe:D )? I would love to be a developer, or maybe become rich, retire, then become a video game developer who's already rich. Or maybe i'm overreacting. IDK. I'm tired.

Also, maybe this is only my computer, but i found it odd that after i wrote my MGS question, the google ad had "cheap MGS2 on sale"
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']What about Cubivore and Ikaruga for the GC, kinda curious about the niche games. Thanx[/QUOTE]

Niche indeed. The first time I played Ikaruga, it was about 4am in the morning as I was waiting on a gold master candidate build for Call of Duty: Finest Hour. Needless to say, it wasn't a great morning other than getting to play Ikaruga for the first time.

Ikaruga - 60k
Cubivore - 10k

[quote name='soonersfan60']I notice that for most of the games you quoted that had sequels, the second one did worse than the first (and some series just kept sliding as the number of sequels increased). What are some examples where the sequels actually showed improving numbers over the original--not including sports games, like Madden? (And has that been the case where a series of 3 or more games had constantly increasing numbers?)[/QUOTE]

Good question, I'm curious too. I'm going to dig through the numbers and take a look, though I think we're going to miss a few examples, such as Tony Hawk since I don't have DC numbers.

I've gotta take about an hour or so to go over our WiiWare beta candidate, so give me a bit...
 
Buzz: The Mega Quiz (Too new?)
Capcom vs SNK 2 (PS2 & Xbox)
Dynasty Tactics 2
Dynasty Warriors 3
Dynasty Warriors 4
Dynasty Warriors 5
Samurai Warriors 1
Samurai Warriors 2 (360 & PS2)
Wartech: Senko Ronde
Warriors Orochi (360 & PS2)

If it takes too much time to look up these things, then feel free to look up whatever you want on this list. Thanks for what you're doing as this feeds my curiosity. Also, take your time.
 
[quote name='roland13x']
I think it's interesting that most people here are much more interested in the slightly more obscure titles. Yeah, we've talked about Madden and MGS, but it's these smaller titles and series that could really use the exposure that sales numbers could bring. NPD peoples...if you're reading this, don't hate. Listen.[/quote]I think the reason for this is that we already pretty much know how much Madden sold: a bajillion. The big-name games show up time and time again in the monthly numbers. However, it's very rare to see numbers for the not-quite-so-big games or the flat-out ignored games.
 
I got a few other good ones:
KOF: Neowave
KOF 2002/03
Tao Feng
Eternal Sonata
Guilty Gear X reload (XBOX)
SVC: Chaos
and the big one
Kakuto Chojin
-------------
I'm actually suprised that DOA: Ultimate didn't sell that well. It dropped price really quick.
What was considered good for a game to do last gen? I see you've said 94k was good, but I though 250,000k was the breaking point.
 
[quote name='suko_32']Buzz: The Mega Quiz (Too new?)
Capcom vs SNK 2 (PS2 & Xbox)
Dynasty Tactics 2
Dynasty Warriors 3
Dynasty Warriors 4
Dynasty Warriors 5
Samurai Warriors 1
Samurai Warriors 2 (360 & PS2)
Wartech: Senko Ronde
Warriors Orochi (360 & PS2)

If it takes too much time to look up these things, then feel free to look up whatever you want on this list. Thanks for what you're doing as this feeds my curiosity. Also, take your time.[/QUOTE]

No problem. Getting the monthly numbers is something I use to help determine our studio's future plans, but mostly I just use it as an excuse to feed my own curiousity.

By the way, our beta is kicking ass. We're at the tail end of an 80 hour week, and will probably be working away until 3am or so, but the entire team just took a break and played the game, and had a great time. I CANNOT wait until it's announced.

Buzz: The Mega Quiz (Too new?) - 126k (includes the version with and w/o controllers)
Capcom vs SNK 2 (PS2 & Xbox) - 180k (PS2) 60k (XBX)
Dynasty Tactics 2 - 42k (PS2)
Dynasty Warriors 3 - 423k (PS2)
Dynasty Warriors 4 - 537k (PS2)
Dynasty Warriors 5 - 193k (PS2)
Samurai Warriors 1 - 177k (PS2)
Samurai Warriors 2 (360 & PS2) - 52k (PS2) 52k (360)
Wartech: Senko Ronde - 16k
Warriors Orochi (360 & PS2) - 34k (PS2) 25k (360)

[quote name='Ikohn4ever']Hotel Dusk?[/QUOTE]

Hotel Dusk - 81k

[quote name='akilshohen']I got a few other good ones:
KOF: Neowave
KOF 2002/03
Tao Feng
Eternal Sonata
Guilty Gear X reload (XBOX)
SVC: Chaos
and the big one
Kakuto Chojin
-------------
I'm actually suprised that DOA: Ultimate didn't sell that well. It dropped price really quick.
What was considered good for a game to do last gen? I see you've said 94k was good, but I though 250,000k was the breaking point.[/QUOTE]

The "considered good" question is too difficult to answer. It really depends on quite a few factors, such as original cost of development and appropriateness of territory (for example, while soccer game sales in the US are decent, the real market is Europe, so you have to think globally). Some games need to sell 100k to break a profit, while others may need 1M or more.


KOF: Neowave - 15k
KOF 2002/03 - 31k
Tao Feng - 162k
Eternal Sonata - 70k
Guilty Gear X reload (XBOX) - 86k
SVC: Chaos - for whatever reason, I can't find a listing for this. strange...
Kakuto Chojin - 28k

[quote name='the_punisher']In case i didn't say it before, it's really cool that a game developer actually comes to forums and talks to people. What specifically do you do? And have you met any gmae developers you really wanted to meet/ were like a dream come true (off the top of my head David Jaffe:D )? I would love to be a developer, or maybe become rich, retire, then become a video game developer who's already rich. Or maybe i'm overreacting. IDK. I'm tired.

Also, maybe this is only my computer, but i found it odd that after i wrote my MGS question, the google ad had "cheap MGS2 on sale"[/QUOTE]

Well, cool, I appreciate you appreciating it. Wait, that sounded retarded. But to answer your question, the one guy I sorta got to meet that I really wanted to was Warren Spector. I barely got to introduce myself, and someday I hope to really get a few minutes of his time, but that guy's games really changed my perception of what games can do. I ALMOST got to meet Molyneux at an E3 a few years ago.
 
[quote name='heavyd853']On top of what he just ask could you throw in the numbers for KOF XI![/QUOTE]

What platform is that on? I can't seem to find it...

[quote name='whoknows']Curious about Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 for Dreamcast.[/QUOTE]

Alas, I don't have DC numbers.
 
[quote name='suko_32']Fire Pro Wrestling Returns
Raiden III
Zelda: Four Swords

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Fire Pro Wrestling Returns - 43k
Raiden III - 16k
Zelda: Four Swords - 396k

no prob
 
Requesting numbers for Contra 4 (DS)
Etrian Odessey (DS)
Picross (DS)
Orcs and Elves (DS)
Trauma Center New Blood (Wii) and
War Tech (360)

Thanks, very much appreciated.
 
what are numbers for top selling ps3 titles?
resistance
ratchet
folklore
ninja gaiden sigma
lair


psp titles like
gta Vice city
metal gear po
crush
silent hill 0
 
[quote name='moblin']Requesting numbers for Contra 4 (DS)
Etrian Odessey (DS)
Picross (DS)
Orcs and Elves (DS)
Trauma Center New Blood (Wii) and
War Tech (360)

Thanks, very much appreciated.[/QUOTE]

A colleague of mine was one of the design leads on Contra 4. I was really happy to see the critical success he had with it.

Contra 4 (DS) - 43k
Etrian Odessey (DS) - 31k
Picross (DS) - 92k
Orcs and Elves (DS) - 17k
Trauma Center New Blood (Wii) - 63k
War Tech (360) - 16k

[quote name='cargo555']what are numbers for top selling ps3 titles?[/QUOTE]

That's almost an oxymoron. OK, that was just a bit of flamebait...:)

resistance - 816k
ratchet - 269k
folklore - 59k
ninja gaiden sigma - 222k
lair - 143k

gta Vice city - 686k
metal gear po - 241k
crush - 18k
silent hill 0 - 86k
 
Dang, was hoping Folklore would have higher sales.

Also unless Im far to tired and missed something which is easily possible, did you ever mention the specifics of what you do? level design, modeling, texture artist?
 
[quote name='basilofbkrst']Dang, was hoping Folklore would have higher sales.

Also unless Im far to tired and missed something which is easily possible, did you ever mention the specifics of what you do? level design, modeling, texture artist?[/QUOTE]

No, I don't think I've mentioned it before.

Well, I guess my official title is somewhere between "co-founder", "chief creative officer" and "producer". With the new company me and my partner started, hell, we can give whatever title we want. But to me, since we only have a handful of people, the officer title sounds stupid.

But basically we're working on a couple of games that I concepted. After that, I let my lead designer run with it, that way it's not just one person's game. But I am acting as the creative director, making sure the game is on track with regards to initial vision and any changes to add fun into the mix. Though that sounds really cool and fun (and trust me, it really is, especially when you see things falling together very nicely), there's plenty of boring stuff to do. Stuff like schedules, budgets, pitching to publishers...hell, building the office furniture. Whatever needs to get done, I make sure it gets done.

I started out in QA over at Activision. Spent a bit less than 2 years doing that before getting my first production break. After that, it's been a straight shot from production coordinator to associate producer to producer to whatever I am now.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']How do you see Lost Odyssey doing? It seems JRPGs are struggling in this current generation.[/QUOTE]

My educated guess, if the reviews are solid, it'll do pretty well.

I think the biggest problem with the JRPGs that have shown up on the 360 have been their graphics. Most Americans don't "get" the Japanese influenced visuals of Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata or Enchanted Arms. Granted, reviews weren't all that hot for them either. But the more realistic-skewing graphics of Odyssey will certainly help it. Whether it's a good game or not (and from the sounds of the previews I've seen, it's borderline) will be the tipping factor. I do think it'll do well enough that dev teams and publishers will continue to bring JRPGs to the 360 (and the market in general), all looking for the next FF.
 
[quote name='roland13x']No, I don't think I've mentioned it before.

Well, I guess my official title is somewhere between "co-founder", "chief creative officer" and "producer". With the new company me and my partner started, hell, we can give whatever title we want. But to me, since we only have a handful of people, the officer title sounds stupid.

But basically we're working on a couple of games that I concepted. After that, I let my lead designer run with it, that way it's not just one person's game. But I am acting as the creative director, making sure the game is on track with regards to initial vision and any changes to add fun into the mix. Though that sounds really cool and fun (and trust me, it really is, especially when you see things falling together very nicely), there's plenty of boring stuff to do. Stuff like schedules, budgets, pitching to publishers...hell, building the office furniture. Whatever needs to get done, I make sure it gets done.

I started out in QA over at Activision. Spent a bit less than 2 years doing that before getting my first production break. After that, it's been a straight shot from production coordinator to associate producer to producer to whatever I am now.[/QUOTE]


Is "QA" Quality Assurance?

You said that these NPD numbers cost a lot to get your hands on. How much are you talking about. I love finding sales stats and stuff like that so I've found this thread very facinating and somewhat disappointing seeing games like Crush sell less than 20k where these an installed base of a few million PSP owners or Contra 4 to be under 50k when the DS has like 20 million DS owners in the U.S. (probably not that much but still)

Anyway here's something I've been wondering what do those "Petz" games do on the DS. They seem to keep crapping those out so I'm assuming that
they're extrememly cheap to make and probably sell bunches of copies in return. I know there's
Dogz
Catz
and Horsez
I think there's a Ponyz one too.

What sucks is that they sell those for $20 each on the DS, which isin't too much lower than a a game like Contra which s $30, but I have a feeling that all of those games individually have sold more than Contra. Please prove me wrong on that. Pleaz.
 
[quote name='emceelokey']Is "QA" Quality Assurance?

You said that these NPD numbers cost a lot to get your hands on. How much are you talking about. I love finding sales stats and stuff like that so I've found this thread very facinating and somewhat disappointing seeing games like Crush sell less than 20k where these an installed base of a few million PSP owners or Contra 4 to be under 50k when the DS has like 20 million DS owners in the U.S. (probably not that much but still)

Anyway here's something I've been wondering what do those "Petz" games do on the DS. They seem to keep crapping those out so I'm assuming that
they're extrememly cheap to make and probably sell bunches of copies in return. I know there's
Dogz
Catz
and Horsez
I think there's a Ponyz one too.

What sucks is that they sell those for $20 each on the DS, which isin't too much lower than a a game like Contra which s $30, but I have a feeling that all of those games individually have sold more than Contra. Please prove me wrong on that. Pleaz.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, QA is quality assurance.

Since I haven't actually purchased an NPD report, I don't know the exact cost, but it's in the thousands. My guess is around $5k or so. Not cheap.

One thing to remember about these numbers is when titles actually went on sale. I know Contra came out late November, and since these are numbers are up to the end of December, that's just one month+ of sales figures. Granted, they aren't spectacular, but selling 43k in one month is really solid (Contra is up to 63k in total).

But it really can be an eye-opener to see where the real money is made in the industry. Sure, we have our Mass Effects and our Bioshocks that the core group purchases and can rally around, but the reality is that the Carnival Games and Pac-Man Worlds is where most of the money is being made, even if attention isn't always on them.

Just taking a quick peek at the 'z titles on DS...

Dogz - 392k
Catz - 378k
Hamsterz Life - 331k
Horsez - 285k

Those are the top sellers in that series. And yes, feel free to feel sick to your stomach just a little bit. Our studio was actually asked to make a game or two in that genre (not for Ubisoft). Needless to say, I was thankful that we were able to say no to that.
 
Ugggh. And as far as I know, those games are still at original retail price.
Dogz: 392,000 x 20 = 7,840,000
Catz: 378,000 x 20 = 7,560,000
Hamsterz Life (wtf hamster beat horses! You can buy a real one for less)
331,000 x 20 = 6,620,000
Horsez: 285,000 x 20 = 5,700,000

$27,720,000 total off of something that's basically different variations of the same game. GeeZ. Not only that but they probably cost in the tens of thousands of dollars to develope if not then in the low 100's. I'm glad to hear that your company (what's the name of it) decided to turn down developing something like that but on the other hand the people behind Contra 4 did some Strawberry Snortcane games before and I'm pretty sure a lot of Contra's development money came from Shortcakes sales. I've also read how some developers would use money from othere titles, mainly licensee titles, and make a crappy game for whatever cartoon and then spend some of that money towardas game that they really want to do a good job on which is why most licensed games are utter crap.
 
It all depends on how much the retailer buys them for of course anyways. Thats why publishers always tout the number of units initially shipped because chances are thats when they will make the most cash. So GOW sells one million in its first few weeks, but when it went "Platnium" and sold for $30 each it obviously costs the retailers less. They should start tracking based on how much units are sold for/cost rather then units sold. I don't know how much retailers make off of Rock Band,but at the high price It's selling insanely well beyond my imagination.
 
Actually, lets see Devil May Cry 1, 2 and 3.

This is the data I have for Japan, which is through the end of the year each game was released in, and is the closet thing to LTD that we have.

PS2 DMC1 555K (20011230)
PS2 DMC2 457K (20031228)
PS2 DMC3 281K (20051225)

3 is universally regarded as better than 2, yet it sells less.
 
Thanks for posting all this, OP. How about numbers for these games:

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (PS2 and Xbox)
Virtua Fighter 4
Virtua Fighter 4: Evo
Tekken Tag
Tekken 5
Soul Calibur II (all systems)
Soul Calibur III
Street Fighter Alpha Anthology
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy X-2
Final Fantasy XII

Again, thanks for taking the time to get us the numbers.
 
At some point SC2 sales looked something like this:

sc2salesxy8.jpg


This is for Japan:

finalfantasyhistoryzb1.png


Trending up 4 through 7, and then down pretty much ever since.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']3 is universally regarded as better than 2, yet it sells less.[/QUOTE]
People got scared off by 2.
 
The quality of 2 doesnt necessarily account for the sales of 3. Going back through this thread, if you look at games that are in series, there is normally a heavy drop off as the series goes on.

I wouldve expected 3 of a series to sell less than 2 to be a fairly consistent trend across many different series, indepedent of quality.
 
Here's a couple question for you.

What were the sales #'s for Manhunt 2 across the Wii/PS2/PSP? I'm curious if "controversy sells". I wonder how well it did versus it's superior predecessor, Manhunt 1.

Also, what were the sales #'s for Fight Night Round 3 and Def Jam Icon on 360/PS3? It'd be interesting to see from EA's point of view what amount of sales weren't enough to justify keeping EA Chicago open.
 
[quote name='BlueLobstah']Do you have access to PC sales? If so, I'm curious to see how badly SimCity Societies bombed.[/quote]

They don't track PC games.
 
[quote name='BlueLobstah']That's odd. I recall them tracking sales years ago...[/quote]

They stopped in 2002.
 
[quote name='Strell']Awww. What a cute Final Fantasy graph![/QUOTE]
It is, but Bartz looks scarily huge next to Yuna. His head is as big as half her body.
 
Roland, thanks. This thread is quite fun to read thanks to your assistance and unwavered data-providing in the face of a relentless barrage of requests.

Mine, though, is a touch different: what games have sold over 100K/500K (you choose the benchmark) that, in your opinion, probably shouldn't have? Not the typical "True Crime" or other highly peddled crap (Kane and Lynch, I suppose), but, rather, games released with below modest expectations that took off and sold like gangbusters. Do such games exist, and if so, what are some of them?
 
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