Kucinich Speech at DNCC: Finally Someone Gets It

4:05 - 4:30 = yes, win

The rest was a little too partisan and "go team" for my tastes, it felt like a battle call more than raising legit issues.

Was the chick at 4:28 mouthing "blue"? She looks retarded. LOL tards.
 
He's way too much like Adlai Stevenson - extremely likable, makes fun of a physical feature of his (his shortness to Adlai's baldness), and very liberal. And while everyone in the Dem party loved Adlai, and he was a great guy, he was absoulutely destroyed in the presidential elections.
 
wow, what a load of bs. how about this...

wake up america, the dems helped pass all the things kucinich just complained about. he brought up wire-tapping... obama voted for fisa! he complained about iraq and the cost of the war... the dems voted for the war and pay for it time and time again. he complains about entitlement programs and then screams for an increase in retirement benefits and neglects to say that medicare reform in 2001 wouldnt have passed without the dems.

dont get me wrong, the republicans are just as much to blame. but this kind of rambling we-didnt-do-it speech is very annoying. i didnt like kucinich in the primaries, and i like him even less after those 5 minutes of pandering to a party that gave him the shaft 110% just a few months ago.
 
Ram, nobody's going to take you seriously until you change your sig. It basically announces to the world that you'll go ad hominem long before conceding any point, in which case replying to you is a complete waste of time.

Just a heads up.
 
[quote name='Koggit']Ram, nobody's going to take you seriously until you change your sig. It basically announces to the world that you'll go ad hominem long before conceding any point, in which case replying to you is a complete waste of time.

Just a heads up.[/QUOTE]

Koggit Koggit Koggit... I thought we were buds. The sig 100% satire. I was inspired by JolietJake's sig so I whipped this up tonight. The truth is, I don't prefer one candidate over the other, I just wanted something silly to be the polar opposite to JolietJake. (plus I'm about 8 beers deep).
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']wow, what a load of bs. how about this...

wake up america, the dems helped pass all the things kucinich just complained about. he brought up wire-tapping... obama voted for fisa! he complained about iraq and the cost of the war... the dems voted for the war and pay for it time and time again. he complains about entitlement programs and then screams for an increase in retirement benefits and neglects to say that medicare reform in 2001 wouldnt have passed without the dems.

dont get me wrong, the republicans are just as much to blame. but this kind of rambling we-didnt-do-it speech is very annoying. i didnt like kucinich in the primaries, and i like him even less after those 5 minutes of pandering to a party that gave him the shaft 110% just a few months ago.[/QUOTE]

It's simple: When one party is the majority for so long, the requisite song of the other party is "I didn't do it, don't look at me". Even though, as you try to point out, it's much less cut-and-dry than that.

Finger pointing is predictably the biggest weapon the DNC has, and it will be their most favorite one to use till Nov 6.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']you just justified my sig, thanks ;)[/quote]
It's justified if you're a bit slow and dense.

Ya see, McCain is old.

That's why the joke works.
 
I think the difference is RAM's is a little less shocking, since some right-wingers actually make the osama/obama connection. My aunt's myspace profile pic says "Obama / Osama: The only difference is a little BS" below a headshot of a similar looking Obama. I've never seen any associations with McCain as wild as the crypt keeper.

I think RAM's should involve a Hitler Obama, or perhaps something racial. Or a mix! A monkey with a hitler 'stache? It definitely needs to get more extreme in order to rival the crypt keeper.
 
Kucinich has a bit of a raspy little voice, but that was a pretty damn good speech. All he needed to do was change "Wake Up, America!" to "Get your head out of your ass, America!" and I would've been sold 5 seconds into it.

Instead, it took longer, but a good speech nonetheless.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='JolietJake']It's about time somebody noticed i changed sigs.:lol:[/quote]

Why does McCain have long hair? Is that picture 10 years old or something?
 
[quote name='Sarang01']You're my friend, myke, but you're straight up being an asshole for calling being a Vegan a character quirk.[/quote]

I think that for Kucinich it is. :D
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Why does McCain have long hair? Is that picture 10 years old or something?[/quote]
Just kill the joke why don't you...#-o
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Just kill the joke why don't you...#-o[/quote]

Joke? Huh? I think McCain looks great in that picture. You can tell the last 10 years haven't been kind to him.

I'm sure his wife was making the sexy time with him more often back then, too.
 
That's a damn fine speech by Krazy Kucinich. Unfortunately it looks like he was put on during some odd hour and most people won't see the awesome. And JolietJake's sig is classic.
 
The "we didn't do it" attitude sure isn't going to win me over, and I'm willing to bet it isn't going to win a lot of other independents over either. McCain != Bush, no matter how many times the Democrats say they are one and the same. Republicans have their own issues too, but instead of bringing up the terrible things the Republicans do, maybe the Democrats should bring up something positive they have done.

Oh, wait...
 
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[quote name='SpiderLocMTGO']The "we didn't do it" attitude sure isn't going to win me over, and I'm willing to bet it isn't going to win a lot of other independents over either. McCain != Bush, no matter how many times the Democrats say they are one and the same. Republicans have their own issues to, but instead of bringing up the terrible things the Republicans do, maybe the Democrats should bring up something positive they have done.

Oh, wait...[/QUOTE]

Not even that. For the past 2 years (maybe 4), Democrats have done little but blame Republicans. They lost before because they had very little in the way of plans, and this is more of the same.

I would just like if Democrats would lay out detailed plans for all their "fixes" across the board. That's what bothers me. Their whole shtick for nearly a decade has been "We don't really have much of a plan, but we know the Republican plan sucks!"

A lot of people often side with the guy with detailed plans, even if they aren't crazy about the plans, if the other choice is simply a guy with lots of good intentions and no plan. This is what the Dems are up against.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Not even that. For the past 2 years (maybe 4), Democrats have done little but blame Republicans. They lost before because they had very little in the way of plans, and this is more of the same.

I would just like if Democrats would lay out detailed plans for all their "fixes" across the board. That's what bothers me. Their whole shtick for nearly a decade has been "We don't really have much of a plan, but we know the Republican plan sucks!"

A lot of people often side with the guy with detailed plans, even if they aren't crazy about the plans, if the other choice is simply a guy with lots of good intentions and no plan. This is what the Dems are up against.[/quote]

The Democrats are hoping people will realize McCain is a senile upper crust jackoff with no intention of "helping" the American people without realizing Obama is a vibrant jackoff joining the upper crust with no intention of "helping" the American people.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']You're my friend, myke, but you're straight up being an asshole for calling being a Vegan a character quirk.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying *I* think it's a character quirk, but it is brought up, obnoxiously enough, as a character quirk in a negative way.

I could give a fuck, personally.

Settle down.

[quote name='thrustbucket']Not even that. For the past 2 years (maybe 4), Democrats have done little but blame Republicans. They lost before because they had very little in the way of plans, and this is more of the same.

I would just like if Democrats would lay out detailed plans for all their "fixes" across the board. That's what bothers me. Their whole shtick for nearly a decade has been "We don't really have much of a plan, but we know the Republican plan sucks!"

A lot of people often side with the guy with detailed plans, even if they aren't crazy about the plans, if the other choice is simply a guy with lots of good intentions and no plan. This is what the Dems are up against.[/QUOTE]

This entire post is pretty much nonsense. What you're telling me is that Democrats lack substance and are, by default, the masters of negative political campaigning as a result? What are they saying if they have no plans? What about their plans on health care? On rolling back tax cuts (which, under Obama's PLAN, are more beneficial to every American earning under $150,000 per year, otherwise known as 95% of the country, than McCain's plan)? On encouraging the growth of "green collar" jobs? Of eliminating so-called "free trade" agreements (that Clinton put them on the map is irrelevant, since they're inherently pro-business and anti-worker, and thus conservative in nature)?

Democrats have NOTHIN' on Republicans when it comes to nonsensical polemics, ad hominems, and assaults.

It's one thing to say Democrats plans are less preferable, to you, than Republican plans; or that their kind of talk fails to resonate with Americans than the Republican myths of individualism. But "they have no plans" is beneath someone who follows politics like you, thrust. Save that kind of talk for the nitwits who don't follow politics but like to talk as if they did.

Now, to what others have said indicting Democrats in helping perpetuate that which Kucinich rails against:

you're absolutely right.

Which, while it sickens me and my very, very left sensibilities, does more, I think, to make the Democrat party endearing to a greater number of Americans. It shows that they aren't all, like FOX News wants you to believe (since they are seemingly unable to utter the word "left" politically without prefacing it with the word "far"). There are, then, ample moderates in the Democrat party. Moderates that have character nuances, are willing to vote across the aisle. A diverse group of individuals; hell, that's what the Democrat party's always been about. Working class interests, gender-rights interests, minority interests, environmental interests, religious interests. They don't always overlap very cleanly (see the purported problems Obama has in courting white working class, typically Democrat voters). At all. See also the overblown "PUMA" molehill the media is making into a mountain.

The Democrat party is more likely, thus, to represent you and your interests than you would think. They certainly don't always represent mine (thanks for the fuckin' FISA support, Obama! Thanks for authorizing the war in Iraq, Hillary!).

But don't you WANT a party that is diverse and serves a great number of groups? One that is more moderate than good ol' ultra-liberal myke wants?

Yes you do. Of course you do. Kucinich's "WAKE UP" call was as much for his own party as it was an indictment of the GOP.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']The Democrats are hoping people will realize McCain is a senile upper crust jackoff with no intention of "helping" the American people without realizing Obama is a vibrant jackoff joining the upper crust with no intention of "helping" the American people.[/QUOTE]

The real problem is that there are too many people who's #1 criteria for a candidate is who's going to "help" the people the most.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']The real problem is that there are too many people who's #1 criteria for a candidate is who's going to "help" the people the most.[/QUOTE]

Amen. The real root of the problem. I'm tempted to yet again quote the prophetic words of Alexander Fraser Tytler, even though I'm sure the regulars here are tired of my doing so:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years.

These nations have progressed through this sequence:
from bondage to spiritual faith
from spiritual faith to great courage
from courage to liberty
from liberty to abundance
from abundance to selfishness
from selfishness to complacency
from complacency to apathy
from apathy to dependency
from dependency back to bondage.
-- Alexander Fraser Tytler (1742-1813)


The only question left, is which of the last two are we on?

Mykevermin,
I acknowledge that they have rough plans for health care and Obama has a skeletal plan for taxes (which I don't agree with), but I still stand by my statement that they rarely have a detailed plan for anything when campaigning, rarely enough solid answers to make people feel comfortable voting for them. My biggest beef with Democrats has never been their actual policy, it's that they have so very few stalwart policies, and thus are unpredictable.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
...What you're telling me is that Democrats lack substance and are, by default, the masters of negative political campaigning as a result? ...[/quote]

I, of course, had a long winded answer to this comment, but the word, "YES", also works.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury.
[/quote]

Good thing we live in a constitutional republic rather than a democracy.

Mykevermin,
I acknowledge that they have rough plans for health care and Obama has a skeletal plan for taxes (which I don't agree with), but I still stand by my statement that they rarely have a detailed plan for anything when campaigning, rarely enough solid answers to make people feel comfortable voting for them. My biggest beef with Democrats has never been their actual policy, it's that they have so very few stalwart policies, and thus are unpredictable.

I see this point if going by ads, debates, speeches etc. But I'd say that both parties are too vague with their plans in those.

But if one takes the time to dig deeper (i.e. read the detailed info on the candidates websites etc.) I think both McCain and Obama have fairly equally detailed plans on most issues. Who's you agree with more is a matter of opinion, but I think they both have enough details for informed voters who take the time to look them up.

But yet, I'd love to see more of the details in ads, speeches etc. from both and less partisan rhetoric and attacks.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
These nations have progressed through this sequence:
from bondage to spiritual faith
from spiritual faith to great courage
from courage to liberty
from liberty to abundance
from abundance to selfishness
from selfishness to complacency
from complacency to apathy
from apathy to dependency
from dependency back to bondage.
The only question left, is which of the last two are we on?
[/quote]
Only problem with the end of this cycle ...

Bondage to extinction.

Robot slaves with very limited AI can fill in for servants.

Improved brain scanning to the atomic level and protein manipulation to construct a person with whatever memories and abilities you want for the task at hand. Immortality is just the start.

There won't be much need for somebody like me in a few decades.

Ah, well, it was fun while it lasted.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']But if one takes the time to dig deeper (i.e. read the detailed info on the candidates websites etc.) I think both McCain and Obama have fairly equally detailed plans on most issues. Who's you agree with more is a matter of opinion, but I think they both have enough details for informed voters who take the time to look them up.[/QUOTE]

Guys, it's "WHOSE."

Not who's. That's two I've seen in posts in the past hour.

Grammar aside, I'm mykevermin, and I approve this message.

Saying they don't have plans is akin to me saying that "Final Fantasy XIII is not coming to the Xbox 360."

It is, of course. But unless I have knowledge that it is, from going to websites like this, by myself, and gathering that information, then I'm allowed to make incorrect and baseless claims.

But don't let me tell you. As a conservative, you value individualism, hard work, and the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and do it yourself" philosophy of life. So apply it to informing yourself of politician's plans and platforms.

Google ain't broken. The internet isn't closed for maintenance. The plans and proposals are indeed there.

I wish that ads would not be negative (but they are, lamentably, more entertaining and eye-catching when they are - besides, who gets more publicity from speaking at the DNCC? The ballbusters or the policy wonks who are talking at the podium?) - but I'm not so naive as to think that plans can be boiled down to 30-second snippets, and I'm not naive enough to think that they can be properly directed at certain times, markets, and channels so as to be effective as some sort of soft-lens-walking-down-a-dirt-road incongraphic commercial.

To sum up, you may think everybody else is a dimwit who doesn't know any better, but y'all, even bmugs, are GROWN UPS. You can find plans on your own, and have nobody but yourselves to blame for being ill informed.

In the meantime that y'all are busting the chops of "helping" society (boy howdy giving people health care makes us such fuckin' lazy-assed handout-lovin' ne'er do wells!), you seem to be "waiting for a handout" in the form of information. Tsk tsk, fellas.
 
Grammar nazi! I know the difference between who's and whose--couldn't get through Journalism school as an undergrad otherwise! :D

I just make typos/brain farts with homonyms when typing fast (screw up their/there/they're and your/you're all the time too). Couple that with seldom reading over net posts and that's what you get. :D
 
Damn, quit quoting that worthless asshole so I don't have to see his asinine posts! I put him on ignore not for disliking Dave Matthews but for being an asshole in a thread about someone's death on top of just being generally annoyed by his holier than thou attitude. Ironic for someone who said they went to community college out of high school.

As I said in that thread about Leroi Moore, he's a worthless, thoughtless, self-centered piece of shit and no one should pay him any attention.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Amen. The real root of the problem. I'm tempted to yet again quote the prophetic words of Alexander Fraser Tytler, even though I'm sure the regulars here are tired of my doing so:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years.

These nations have progressed through this sequence:
from bondage to spiritual faith
from spiritual faith to great courage
from courage to liberty
from liberty to abundance
from abundance to selfishness
from selfishness to complacency
from complacency to apathy
from apathy to dependency
from dependency back to bondage.
-- Alexander Fraser Tytler (1742-1813)


The only question left, is which of the last two are we on?[/QUOTE]

Probable fake citation alert.

This is what happens when you get the majority of your political views from chain emails.
 
Give him a break msut. He's quite self-aware like you. You two are probably more alike then you realize.

Myke then whoever dismissed Veganism as a negative thing is a cunt. Being a Vegan can make doing Organic AFFORDABLE.
Try buying Organic Dairy or Beef on a regular basis, NEVER buying it like this otherwise. It would break some's bank.
Now contrast this by buying Organic Soy beans, making your own Soy Milk, Tofu as well as Flour and other things and you see how much cheaper it is. I'd love mentioning Seitan but I haven't found a place around that sells ORGANIC Wheat Gluten flour. :whistle2:(
The one place that bites you in the ass all over is buying fresh vegetables and fruit, organic or otherwise. My suggestion is you plant your own vegetables and fruit to make this a lot easier to be affordable.

edit: For me being a Vegan is a health choice. I believe eating meat, dairy, any animal product puts more stress on my body digesting it not to mention some of the garbage that is in the non-Organic product. Look at meat. Imagine eating from a cow that has had rBGH and antibiotics added. Now let's also imagine that the grass they've eaten has ended up sprayed with Pesticides. It's also not affordable for most people to eat Organic meat and dairy as I said above.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Give him a break msut.[/QUOTE]

No seriously, that particular bit of nonsense is from a spam email.

I have seen it a dozen times before, google it if you wish.

thrust seems to get most of his talking points via random emails and he has the self awareness of a goldfish.
 
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Speaking of good speeches, anyone check out John Kerry's? I always liked him and donated a few dollars in 04 even though I couldn't vote. Really a shame he didn't win, and his speech last night was excellent. He really could have used that enthusiasm back then.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Speaking of good speeches, anyone check out John Kerry's? I always liked him and donated a few dollars in 04 even though I couldn't vote. Really a shame he didn't win, and his speech last night was excellent. He really could have used that enthusiasm back then.[/QUOTE]

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/...-compare-senator-mccain-and-candidate-mccain/

"I have known and been friends with John McCain for almost 22 years, but every day now I learn something new about Candidate McCain. To those who still believe in the myth of a maverick instead of the reality of a politician, I say let’s compare Senator McCain to Candidate McCain.

Candidate McCain now supports the very wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once called irresponsible. Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain’s own climate change bill. Candidate McCain says he would vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote.

Are you kidding me, folks?

Talk about being for it before you’re against it!

Let me tell you, before he ever debates Barack Obama, John McCain should finish the debate with himself.

And what’s more, Senator McCain, who once railed against the smears of Karl Rove when he was the target has morphed into Candidate McCain, who is using the same Rove tactics, the same Rove staff, the same old politics of fear and smear.

Well, not this year; not this time. The Rove-McCain tactics are old and outworn, and America will reject them in 2008."
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight'] He really could have used that enthusiasm back then.[/QUOTE]

Yep, I had that same thought. It's a damn shame Gore and Kerry both apparently learned how to give a good speech after losing elections!

Kerry's speech was outstanding and easily my favorite of the one's last night (at least for Sen. Rockefeller on as that's when I started watching yeterday).
 
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