Limited Run Games Thread - Nothing is Limited, We Make Everything Now!

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Please move all off-topic and non-game related discussion (such as reselling, or he who shall not be named) to the other thread below,

LRG Off-Topic Discussion Thread

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LRG is on Amazon now!

LRG Trading Thread - Miss a release? Trade with someone who might need a release you have.


Limited Run Games Store Fronthttps://limitedrungames.com/videogamedeals

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Holiday 2022 LRG Releases at Best Buyhttps://cag.vg/lrg

Props to Cheapy for keeping the OP updated. :3
 
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Doomstink said:
There aren't thousands who are smearing us but there are thousands who don't understand the delays (literally everything we've posted on Facebook or Instagram has been met with an "Any updates on Skullgirls?" post - even literal updates on Skullgirls will still get those comments). To date, we've answered over 2,000 support tickets related to Skullgirls at an average response time of 3 minutes per ticket. We're nearing three weeks worth of time for one customer support agent to just respond to Skullgirls concerns! That doesn't factor in the time or effort I've spent responding on Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, and Instagram.

The folks smearing us number in the 100s and are loud enough where they get to me. They are appearing on our limitedrungames.com forums and other Vita-focused communities. On r/Vita, people actually think we ran off with their money.

I've seen belligerent jerks on Twitter on a nearly weekly basis getting mad at us for how long it has taken. I see daily sarcastic remarks about the delays. Our detractors are using the situation as ammo to convince people we're a bad company. Additionally, I have to deal with at least two or more PayPal disputes per day which do nothing but waste my time and hurt my standing with PayPal.

That's not even touching on the fact that we planned to press 10,000 units of Skullgirls on PS4 and 5,000 on Vita via our traditional route (you can verify this claim in the Game Informer interview I did where I say we have a 10K game on the horizon). We sold significantly less through preorder and had to spend a lot on advertising to even pull that off.

Frankly, I'd rather die than do another non-PC preorder.

Skullgirls has shown that not only does it make our job significantly more difficult, it inadvertantly makes the games more rare because less people buy them.

Our partners have EVERY single right to reprint their games once we sell out. Our model works for everyone involved - if you feel a particular game was vastly underprinted, you can very easily ask the devs to seek another pressing. They have the rights - we don't lock anything up in a vault!
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I really don't get the hate. I want my Skull Girls Vita copy as well, but I would rather get it next year and have it fully patched than have received it in February as an unfinished mess requiring patches and using tons of space on my memory card.

 
https://twitter.com/limitedrunjosh/status/887276295595446272

CE contents and print runs will be up in the next few days. It will be sold alongside an unannounced JRPG for the Vita.
 
Doomstink said:
We have brown ones with a mint green logo now. We change the colors every time we reorder boxes.
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Definitely a fun idea.

Any chance on a sticker inventory update for purchase? I missed one from buying the pax variant and I've been on the look out for it since.
 
trinken wir said:
I really don't get the hate. I want my Skull Girls Vita copy as well, but I would rather get it next year and have it fully patched than have received it in February as an unfinished mess requiring patches and using tons of space on my memory card.
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My frustration has just been the near-total lack of communication from Lab Zero. Their "hey, we'll update this throughout the process!" Google spreadsheet is almost never touched. Months would pass without word. They apologize for not being more transparent, and then they immediately go back to making the same mistakes again. One of the first updates in ages from them was only posted on Twitter, didn't even have "Skullgirls" in the post so you could easily find it in a search, and was tweeted by an individual dev rather than @skullgirls.

I can understand and sympathize with a delay. Just let me know what's going on and provide regular updates, and I'm completely onboard. Lab Zero dropped that ball over and over and over and over, and it's such a drag to see that LRG is getting the brunt of the blowback from that. (...although maybe it's worth noting that LRG's January email said "Our next update regarding this release will be when the game has entered certification with Sony.", and a followup email hasn't been sent out yet.)
 
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srocky26 said:
https://twitter.com/limitedrunjosh/status/887276295595446272

CE contents and print runs will be up in the next few days. It will be sold alongside an unannounced JRPG for the Vita.
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Two JRPGs on the same day including a CE, and multi platform? This sounds like someone who is trying to kill collectors not support them.

Y's alone will be 4 x add to cart if you want the standard and CE for both platforms. And I'm betting the other one is multi-platform also, and will likely have cover variants too the way this collector exploiting is going. Lets add Switch, Wii U, 3DS, and everything else into the mix too so we can all go insane!

On a positive note, 3000 units and limit 1 for Wonder Boy CE seems reasonable maybe. :D

 
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csbaker-az said:
Two JRPGs on the same day including a CE, and multi platform? This sounds like someone who is trying to kill collectors not support them.

Y's alone will be 4 x add to cart if you want the standard and CE for both platforms. And I'm betting the other one is multi-platform also, and will likely have cover variants too the way this collector exploiting is going.
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Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything. Maybe once in life you could do without owning everything. You can leave the variant and multi-platform collecting to those Youtubers you hate so much.

 
I've reused my LRG boxes a few times. Good thing I read this, I'll keep one of the blue ones. I keep my stickers and cards in it. When I start getting brown ones I'll put my cards in there until you change colors again. It'll be a cool way to date releases for me :) 

 
ETA on announcing that second, mysterious JRPG? Is it the same one you previously hinted at that was "very Japanese" and "vita only" on Twitter, or is that a different one?

 
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Pheria said:
ETA on announcing that second, mysterious JRPG? Is it the same one you previously hinted at that was "very Japanese" and "vita only" on Twitter, or is that a different one?
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That one is not an RPG and probably won't be announced until September. Earliest that will be out is October. I imagine quite a few people will get pretty excited about it!

 
SRG is seriously the shittiest website I have ever seen/used.  Do any of the buttons actually do anything?

 
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Shadowstrike002 said:
Should announce the jrpg so people can make a decision in advance
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189.gif


 
Shadowstrike002 said:
Should announce the jrpg so people can make a decision in advance
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It will be announced ahead of the 25th. We have enough announced stuff at the moment where we'd prefer to wait until the end of this month to announce this one.

Edit: This is August 25th I'm talking about. Not July 25th if for some reason people thought that.
 
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Should show the CEs with the art book upright and closed and then again level and open at the same time and the soundtrack case and CD open, etc. Make the CE look bigger like everyone else does. Lol

 
Doomstink said:
Frankly, I'd rather die than do another non-PC preorder.
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You guys screwed the pooch by doing preorders for an unfinished game and on the PC end bundling in other stuff which delayed the process.

What is the time difference between placing an order with Sony and it getting printed and back in your hands? Not approval process, just you guys put your order in and wait?

If it happens within 6 weeks then pick one game (Y's Origin would be ideal) and when the game has passed the approval process by Sony, announce a limited one day preorder window. Friday's are ideal as people already associate friday with LRG. If people miss the window some will be available on launch day (maybe 1K) a month later when the production shows up. So the games all get a limited print run. People don't have to fight for games they want and are happier plus if they miss the preorder they still have a chance at launch like usual. You guys aren't stuck holding orders for month on end... bordering on a year and dealing with the customer service issues. The dev makes more $$$. You guys make more $$$. It seems like a win win situation.

The only time this would suck would be possibly in the fall when production delays creep in on PS4 games but you've done this long enough to either avoid it or to make it clear of the expected longer delay during orders.

Why wouldn't this work? Would the cards not be able to be printed in that window? Maybe drop them if that's the case. It's still a fire sale at launch. Even the preorders are limited which will drive more demand rather than a long drawn out window for preorders where people have more time to make up their minds and either forget or opt out because maybe it won't be as limited and be worth as much to resell.

To the regulars here: Would anyone here like this idea of preorders on regular PS4 & Vita games?

 
nightc1 said:
To the regulars here: Would anyone here like this idea of preorders on regular PS4 & Vita games?
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I don't mind preorders, as I have several outstanding at NISA for games I may get in a 6-12 month time frame(I combine orders to save on shipping). I have a backlog years deep, so if a game doesn't show up when planned, I'm not personally loosing any sleep over it.

The Skull Girls preorders had some challenges, but since they wanted to offer the VO if 10,000 was reached, many things needed to get done once that happened. Has the process been longer than expected, yes. Shit Happens.

90% of everything I have ordered from LRG has always arrived within 2 weeks, and for the things that didn't, there was a good reason. Now a "good" reason to me, doesn't mean good for someone else, so that's their own cross to bear I suppose. So longs as progress is happening, and reports are offered, I'm good.

 
nightc1 said:
What is the time difference between placing an order with Sony and it getting printed and back in your hands? Not approval process, just you guys put your order in and wait?
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Lab Zero spelled out some of the timeframes:

Assuming everything goes smoothly, the Graphics Approval step is estimated to take five days, the Proofing step is estimated to take two days, and then Printing and Assembly is estimated to take 3 weeks for PS4, and 4~5 weeks for PS Vita.
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I'm not sure how long it takes the finished product to wind up back in LRG's hands.

 
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nightc1 said:
You guys screwed the pooch by doing preorders for an unfinished game and on the PC end bundling in other stuff which delayed the process.

What is the time difference between placing an order with Sony and it getting printed and back in your hands? Not approval process, just you guys put your order in and wait?

If it happens within 6 weeks then pick one game (Y's Origin would be ideal) and when the game has passed the approval process by Sony, announce a limited one day preorder window. Friday's are ideal as people already associate friday with LRG. If people miss the window some will be available on launch day (maybe 1K) a month later when the production shows up. So the games all get a limited print run. People don't have to fight for games they want and are happier plus if they miss the preorder they still have a chance at launch like usual. You guys aren't stuck holding orders for month on end... bordering on a year and dealing with the customer service issues. The dev makes more $$$. You guys make more $$$. It seems like a win win situation.

The only time this would suck would be possibly in the fall when production delays creep in on PS4 games but you've done this long enough to either avoid it or to make it clear of the expected longer delay during orders.

Why wouldn't this work? Would the cards not be able to be printed in that window? Maybe drop them if that's the case. It's still a fire sale at launch. Even the preorders are limited which will drive more demand rather than a long drawn out window for preorders where people have more time to make up their minds and either forget or opt out because maybe it won't be as limited and be worth as much to resell.

To the regulars here: Would anyone here like this idea of preorders on regular PS4 & Vita games?
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I personally prefer the current method. I also think having a single day or even a week preorder will still result in complaints from people who say they didn't know or that LRG did a bad job of communicating or that it's not fair, etc.... I'm also not certain that preorders will generate the same kinds of numbers of purchases as the current method does. It certainly didn't hit LRG's expectations in connection with Skullgirls. In addition, too much can go wrong in the approval and pressing process which even if it leads to a very small delay will result in horrible backlash against LRG.

If you haven't spent any time on their Twitter or Facebook, you don't really understand how bad it gets even when the delay is literally like a week for certain games. If everyone was calm, cool and rational, I'm sure preorders are something that might make sense in limited cases. Unfortunately, with LRG not having complete control over Sony's submission timelines or physical production, it's just too uncertain.

 
nightc1 said:
To the regulars here: Would anyone here like this idea of preorders on regular PS4 & Vita games?
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I'm honestly against pre-orders altogether, LRG or otherwise for any new release. I'd rather know a game is good or not before I buy it... even if it's gonna sit on my shelf, unopened.:p

 
The real question is if they really need to do pre-orders.

Other than appeasing those who constantly ask or prefers to do pre-orders, I don't see a whole lot of added benefit to them personally, especially considering how outspoken they have been to doing it, so they would just be doing something they've had bad experiences with just to cater to a small portion of their customer base.

I'm not against pre-orders, but I certainly wouldn't prefer it over the current model.  Until it's something that is a necessity to keep them thriving, I don't feel they need to pursue pre-orders when everyone else already is doing it that way.  LRG wanted to be different when they came out with this model, so I don't see any practical reason for them to change now.

 
As far as preorders and LRG goes, I don't think they need to do them, but if they offered another one like Skull Girls, where it would be needed for another reason outside of just selling the game, that's fine.

But in regards to their normal releases, I don't really see the need. As stated many times in the past, the LRG business model only works based mostly on how it currently runs. Anything outside of that, doesn't really benefit these guys, or help their business in any way. If anything, it makes for a worse situation, due to the crowd that can't wait patiently for a release(clogging up staff with hundreds of emails and complaints), so yeah, probably not a good fit here, but good elsewhere for standard/CE releases.

 
Well I used to be an advocate for preorders, and sometimes they work OK (like Cursed Castilla, although that game did also have a limited production quantity). The greatest benefit of preorders is it guarantees that initial demand is satisfied accurately, as opposed to not being properly met. Sometimes the production numbers are too low given the demand for a particular title.

But overall I can see why LRG doesn't want to do preorders again, and that's completely understandable. Their model is to offer the games in a "flash sale" approach, with a small production run, which stokes demand and usually results in a quick sellout. If they can get a slightly better handle on the production numbers, it would avoid the frustration of not being able to get a game in the ~5 minute sales windows.
 
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I used to be all for preorders but now the games have been pretty easy to get.

Honestly I'm still in support of the club idea but everyone gets pitchforks and nooses ready as soon as that's mentioned.
 
I was at GameStop last week and the associate was in the back on a web conference with the door opened so I kinda dropped some eaves:

The person doing the presentation said "25,000 ( or something near to that) does anyone know the significance?" After 5-6 fail guesses she said "that is our regions profit on pre orders- the average pre order is worth 80$ to us."

Something over 2 million as a company in easy money for banking bucks until games ship.
 
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bradbo said:
Something over 2 million as a company in easy money for banking bucks until games ship.
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And that is why pre-orders exist in the first place. But the benefit from pre-orders is significantly diminished when you are a small company with small print runs. Pre-orders allow you to gain profit off of interest when you are socking away millions of dollars on games that are guaranteed to come out, and that you aren't developing, printing, or storing yourself. When you have to use that pre-order money in the actual production of the game itself, most of those sweet, sweet margins dry up.

So for a retailer like GameStop, pre-orders are super great and they'll go in on those anytime. For a tiny company like LRG, pre-orders are a waking nightmare, and not even remotely worth the extra trouble. Yes, they get to hold onto people's money a lot sooner. But they also have to use that money to actually create the product, while retailers like GameStop don't.

 
But somehow these guys have convinced many people that it's best to let someone else hold onto their money until the game releases. Such a terrible idea unless it's a scarce item.

I guess companies feel like it's something that should be offered since perception is reality.
 
Theoretically, companies like LRG should be the only ones offering pre-orders. Their approach to the practice actually insures that a greater number of a given title will be available. (because the pre-order actually goes towards production, instead of just sitting in a bank and collecting interest) And their approach also helps to guarantee that anyone who wants a potentially scarce title will have the chance to acquire that title. The only drawback is that the more successful such a campaign is, the less scarce the title will be. This kind of flies in the face of the whole "Limited Run" thing, as the limit for the run is then determined purely by the demand of the customers.

For GameStop, pre-orders are a complete racket. They get to pitch them as a guarantee of acquiring stock, but this is essentially a complete fabrication. If GameStop ends up without enough stock to cover your pre-order, they don't give you anything to compensate you for their failure in logistics. The worst-case scenario for them is that you demand a refund on your pre-order, and take your business elsewhere. And even in this scenario, they got to hang onto your money for months ahead of time, and have already turned a profit on the transaction thanks to interest. So the whole thing is basically smoke and mirrors. GameStop gives you nothing for your pre-order, gets to hang onto your money for quite some time, and incurs zero risk over the entire racket. Is it any wonder they're so enthusiastic about pushing pre-orders?

 
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Except 2/3 of the demand would dry up instantly as most of the interest in these titles is the exclusivity and future resale value. It's retarded.  It's similar to the craze for Nintendo products, most of the demand is artificial and caused by perceptions on scarcity and future attainability and increased value after the fact. And it's the reason Nintendo is purposely vague on things like restocks, reprints, discontinuations, etc.  The moment they even HINT that they will make enough to meet demand, that very same demand vanishes; people who want it know to wait and stop buying from flippers, the thousands that re-sellers had hoarded get returned and negate the need to even restock in the first place, people who wanted it only because it was rare lose interest, etc.  

The whole situation is just an endless hierarchical self perpetuating cycle of speculative BS built on a house of cards ready to collapse entirely if demand is met.

And now days even if you have pre-orders it doesn't mean anything. Even the pre-orders "sell out" in 5 minutes and are gone forever (see Mario Rabids CE, Master Edition etc).  

 
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csbaker-az said:
And now days even if you have pre-orders it doesn't mean anything. Even the pre-orders "sell out" in 5 minutes and are gone forever (see Mario Rabids CE, Master Edition etc).
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That's not actually a true pre-order scenario, though. Those collectors editions are always intended to have fixed quantities that don't increase. So the publisher isn't going to increase the stock to respond to increased pre-orders. They simply cut the pre-orders off when they reach the end of their stock, pretty much exactly the way that Limited Run Game releases currently work. They call it something different, but it functions exactly the same way.

The pre-orders that LRG has been engaging in don't function that way. They print out however many copies were pre-ordered. So there is no pre-defined limit. More people pre-order, more copies will get produced. The thing is, with the one major PS4 pre-order campaign that they ran, they actually got fewer pre-orders than the usual number of copies they sell in a typical Friday release.

This is a matter of psychology. The limited runs they engage in during a pre-defined time frame artificially increases demand in the minds of the consumers. The immediacy of needing to buy it RIGHT NOW or the opportunity will be gone forever influences buying decisions. And while the flipper/speculators are a huge annoyance to a collector like me, their inclusion in the mix helps to cement the benefit of not hesitating. If I wait on any of these titles, I know that I won't be able to pick them up for any less than double their original price. So whatever LRG is charging, I know that it is the lowest price I'm ever going to see. So there's no reason to hesitate or wait.

A lengthy pre-order campaign will always lack that sense of urgency. Nothing is running out, so there's no reason to rush into a decision. There's no pressure, no opportunity cost. And this drastically reduces the perceived demand in the minds of the consumers.

 
Heads up:  Apparently Neurovoider is on sale today but not shipping until mid to late August according to the product description.  I am curious as to why they wouldn't put it up for sale at the time it is ready then?  They did it for most other releases in the past (only sold them when ready) and Jotun was a special case since by contract it had to be sold by itself.  What's the deal with Neurovoider doing it now too?

 
Josef said:
Heads up: Apparently Neurovoider is on sale today but not shipping until mid to late August according to the product description. I am curious as to why they wouldn't put it up for sale at the time it is ready then? They did it for most other releases in the past (only sold them when ready) and Jotun was a special case since by contract it had to be sold by itself. What's the deal with Neurovoider doing it now too?
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Josh mentioned recently that certain games have to be released by a certain date, or their contract with the developer will become void. So maybe they are waiting on some TC for it, and have to release it now, but are going to wait for the other items.

If it's clearly stated on the product page, I don't see any issue. You either are OK, and wait, or you just don't buy it, and there is no love lost.

 
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