Lost Season 4 Discussion - Because You Left

I think "confirmed dead" was a reference to the pilot of Oceanic 815 .. which by the way was obviously a fake plane planted at the bottom of the ocean because we know the cockpit of the plane was on the island. It was the tail of the plane that landed in the ocean.

Does anyone know what significance was of Mrs. Gardnener's grandson haunting the room and protecting the money and drugs? Should we know her grandson and/or why he was hiding that stuff and how/why Miles knew about it? We're to believe he can talk to spirits but he knew about the money before the ghost even communicated with him.

Also, does anyone think it's possible that Ben was lying about the spy on the boat ... that perhaps due to an accident or an experiment he became like Jacob and now he's omniscient? He seems to know an awful lot of secrets about everyone.
 
Speaking about the plane...if you have time, read this theory...it does have its good points and its a good read regardless if its true or not:

Warning: Long read...
Lost” is a grand Gedanken Experiment (German for Thought Experiment), a test of science and philosophy. It asks the question, What if time travel were not only possible, but real, with technology developed in a manner as realistic and consistent with known theoretical physics as possible? And to make it even more dramatic, What if you could travel back in time, and not know it? The passengers of Flight 815 have done exactly that, and the writers have made the audience go along with them, sharing the same sense of confusion and mystery.

Let’s talk about what we know about time travel today. We are not talking about cheesy movies of the past, where one can travel back to the age of dinosaurs or the middle ages. In fact, in the “real” science of time travel, a few things are known by the constraints of physics and quantum mechanics. There is a conceptual model of a real time machine, and it works something like this:
A time machine must have two parts, essentially two portals, connected by a wormhole (or black hole or whatever you want to call it). Door #1 is built alongside Door #2. Door #1 is allowed to continue along the “present” timeline, while Door #2 is encapsulated in a bubble within space-time, thus separated from the present timeline. This would require a great amount of energy and technology obviously unknown today… but thanks to the writers of “Lost,” it has been solved by Dharma Industries. The amount of separation would be only slight to begin with… say, 108 minutes. Since Door #1 exists in the present timeline, it can safely be located anywhere (Dharma headquarters?). Door #2, now operating in a different place in space-time, in the past, must be safely located in a remote location, for any type of interaction with it from the outside could be catastrophic.


Let’s go back to shortly after the turn of the Twentieth century, the days of Einstein and other early theoretical physicists. This was the dawn of the age of quantum mechanics, which provided new understanding and insight into physics at the sub-atomic level. New mathematics described the behavior of the tiny particles that make up all of matter in the universe. The math was clearly described in terms of numbers, symbols, formulas… however the application to nature as we know it was strange, weird, bizarre. It was very difficult to wrap the human brain around many of the concepts of quantum mechanics, and the math alone was inadequate to explain the problems. Thus, physicists and mathematicians turned to “Gedanken Experiments,” German for Thought Experiments. Applying the known concepts of quantum mechanics to situations in the “real world” allowed a conversation to take place in a way most anybody could (sort of) understand.


Before I lose you, here is an example. In the mathematics of quantum physics, time travel is theoretically possible. One of the most famous Gedanken Experiments is the Grandfather Paradox. If you could travel back in time, could you kill your grandfather? Logic tells you that no, you could not, for if you did, you would not exist. (Pause here and consider why Locke insists that “he can’t” kill his father, he needs somebody else to do it… though this is not a direct invocation of the Grandfather paradox.) The beautiful thing about Gedanken Experiments is that they are both scientific and philosophical, perfect fodder for a creative writer. In the case of the Grandfather Paradox, while they logic is clear, the actual experience of it is a mystery. Imagine actually standing there in the past, holding a loaded gun to the head of your grandfather… what would actually prevent you? “Something” would, some unknown mechanism of physics… and that is where the writers of “Lost” imagine for us. (Perhaps the Smokey Monster is the personification of this mysterious force.)


There is a very important concept in time travel here, which is that you can NEVER travel back further in time than the creation of your time machine; Hence the impossibility of visiting the dinosaurs, etc. Now, if the two doors of your time machine were separated by only 108 minutes at the initial “event”, but then allowed to just sit there, then both timelines would progress at the same pace, forever separated by only 108 minutes. Traveling to the past, but only by 108 minutes, would not be very interesting. Much more exciting would be to keep Door #2 back at the original time of its inception, while Door #1 continues to move forward in time. You could do this by continually “resetting” the clock on Door #2. Over time, the separation between the two doors would grow and grow, from minutes, to hours, to days, to years.


If you actually had the technology to achieve time travel in this manner, there are MANY profound questions you would have to test and answer in order to be confident that you could safely operate the time machine without catastrophically altering the future. The Grandfather Paradox is the most obvious, but actually only one of many questions.


answer #1: What is the Dharma Initiative? It is the building and testing of a time machine, as described above. Door #1 is at the Dharma Headquarters, Door #2 is on the Island in the remote South Pacific.
The question isn’t, Where is the Island? The question is, When is the Island? The answer to that depends on how long ago, in the present timeline, the time machine was created… approximately 20 years ago, I believe.


answer #2: Why must the button be pushed every 108 minutes? This “resets” the clock of Door #2 of the time machine, essentially holding it at the time of its inception in the relative past. If allowed to pass 108 minutes on the clock, then the time machine will lose the ability to reset itself. Furthermore, as the clock passes 108 minutes, you will witness and experience the initial event that activated the time machine… in reverse. Thus the activation of the magnet at the center of the machine, the purple sky, etc. Why, then, must it be pressed by a person, and not just programmed to reset itself? This is because the controllers at Door #1 do not have control over Door #2 in the past, and should disaster strike, and nobody is left alive in the past at Door #2, it should be allowed to pass 108 minutes and no longer reset. answer #3: What happened when the clock was allowed to pass 108 minutes? Door #2 of the time machine lost the ability to reset, and will now continue to progress along a timeline into the future, locked at approximately 20 years separation from Door #1.
What are some of the other critical questions, like the Grandfather Paradox, that must be answered when considering time travel? Here is a great one:
What if a childless woman travels back in time and conceives a child? answer #4: a childless woman cannot travel to the past and conceive a child, because if she did, she would not have been a childless woman. In “Lost”, both mother and child die before the birth, thus preserving the timeline and laws of nature. Perhaps the Others do not fully understand this, and brought in fertility doctor Juliet to see if they can overcome this obstacle.


Consider another:
What if a child travels back to a time before he or she was born? Perhaps nothing… but what if the child dies in the past, before being born? Again, impossible. answer #5: The Others abduct children on the Island to protect them at all costs, for they cannot allow the catastrophic violation of the laws of nature of a child dying before being conceived.


And yet another:
If you travel to the past, will you be the “you” of the present timeline when you arrive, or the younger “you” of the past, or some combination of the two? I do not know, but I believe this offers insight into why John Locke can walk on the Island despite being paralyzed. answer #6: Locke can walk not because the Island has powers to cure, but because he has traveled back to a time BEFORE he was ever paralyzed. He is somehow a blend of the Locke of the present and the Locke of the past.


Who is Ben? I believe he is the creator of the time machine. The Others are his associates living in the time-space bubble around the Island and Door #2 of the time machine in the “past.” They are managing it and testing the effects of time travel, and strictly controlling who exits this bubble into the outside world.
How does one arrive at the Island? There are two methods of traveling to the site (and time) of the Island. First is the controlled method via Door #1 at Dharma Headquarters. It is not via plane, submarine, or any other traditional method of transportation.


The other method is in the accidental collision with the time-space bubble that surrounds the Island, as happened with Oceanic Flight 815, the Portuguese woman’s helicopter, etc. Despite the many theories that abound in online forums, the Others did not know that Flight 815 was coming or going to crash at the Island. It was a chance encounter. It was a disaster that created a paradox… what happens to a plane that crashes in the present, while entering the past? This leads to the question of whether the passengers are alive or dead, answered by talking about a cat.


Schrodinger’s cat, to be specific. Again, quantum mechanics can be very strange. One of the strangest behaviors in particle physics is known as Superposition, which is the ability of a particle to occupy two different states simultaneously (like up and down, left and right, here and there, etc.). In the world we know, you cannot be both here and there, but in particle physics, a world of probability, chance, and duality, you can. How can one imagine this? Another great Gedanken Experiment was conceived, as follows:
Place a cat in a sealed, steel box, along with a bottle of poison. In addition, a radioactive element is placed within the steel box. The decay of this radioactive element triggers a hammer, which breaks the bottle, releasing the poison and killing the cat. For the observer, outside of the box, you do not know when this radioactive decay happens. Because of the laws of Superposition, the radioactive element can occupy both states simultaneously, for the briefest moment. For that blink in time, the bottle is both broken and intact… the cat is both dead and alive, at the same time. This is a puzzle of science, but more important perhaps is the philosophical question of what does it mean to be both dead and alive?


answer #7: The passengers of Oceanic Flight 815 are dead at the bottom of the ocean. AND they are ALIVE on the Island. They are both dead and alive. Since they are alive in the “past” of the Island’s timeline, can they return to the present in which they are dead? I guess that is the ultimate question that we will have to watch the show to find out.


A suggestion of an answer is found in Locke’s/Sawyer’s father. We were led to believe that he died in a car accident, and finds himself here on the Island. Of course he would think he’s in hell! We believe that somehow Locke “willed” him here, but that was actually never said on the show. In fact, Ben said to Locke, “you brought him here.” Perhaps what he means is this:
answer #8: Locke’s father did not die in the accident. I believe that we will find soon that Locke is going to leave the Island. The question that nobody asked Locke’s father was when did the accident happen? See, Locke is going to return to the “present” timeline, and is going to pursue his father. He is going to find him, perhaps he is even going to cause his accident. He is going to drug and kidnap him, unable or unwilling to kill him by himself. He is somehow going to get him to Door #1 of the time machine and send him to the Island, where he already knows that Sawyer will kill him. Locke is going to “bring him here” to the Island… he just hasn’t done it yet. When he is on the “outside” in the present, why is he going to do this? Because he has to, because it is destiny… for on the Island, it has already happened. You know Locke loves destiny.
I could go on and on. Why is there a zoo with polar bears? answer #9: The animals are on the Island for testing the effects of the various paradoxes associated with time travel. Perhaps another reason is that by keeping and preserving endangered animals, like polar bears, within this bubble in the past, there is a resource for their recovery should they become extinct in the future. Consider it a Noah’s Ark.


How do the Others know so much about the passengers of Flight 815? answer #10: The Others have had perhaps years, with Dharma Industries in the present timeline at Door #1, to research each of the individuals, and transmit this information to the Island. To the audience and the survivors of 815, it seemed like the Others instantly knew about them. However, it likely required years of research to compile the files.


There are still mysteries that remain, and stories that we do not know how they will play out. With this explanation, though, the behavior of the Others is understood. They must protect the timeline at all costs. That makes them seem evil to the survivors of 815, but in reality their intentions are to prevent catastrophe.


There are many other stories I haven’t touched, but they are all consistent with this basic theory. This includes Desmond’s apparent “time loop” he is experiencing, and many others.
So there it is. Or, I’m out of my mind. Time will tell.
Steve
http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/may/07/great-gedanken-experiment-tale/
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']well, i guess the obvious question...
why are they after ben? im sticking with my theory that the people on the freighter are dharma (or at least a dharma supported group). i figure theyd have a bone to pick with ben.

also, when the hell are they going to meet back up with the others, theyve been hanging out at the temple with the immortal metro guy richard for the last year.
[/quote]

HAHAHAHA!!!

well obviously IF they are part of the Dharma Initiative/Hanzo/whatever, and you had a former member aka Benjamin Linus betray your group and people and have them executed, you'd have a bone to pick as well.

Plus, because of the island's 'special properties', and possibly being a tesseract or only accessible through a wormhole/tear int he space/time continuum/WHATEVER, i.e. it's nigh impossible to find the damn island, that could be why the freighter's benefactor(s), possibly Hanzo or whomever, have had such a difficult time re-locating it and getting back to it.

To whoever was complaining about the flash-forward episodes, well here you go. You got a flashback episode to the lives of the freighter 'rescue team' before they got signed up. I'm still waiting for Vincent's episode. That would be awesome.

And seriously now, what about the 'other' Oceanic flight 815 found at 3000 meters down or whatever depth it was, off of Java I believe they said.

Was it really a plant, or was it DUM DUM DUM a geniune Oceanic 815 from an alternate/divergent timeline/reality?

And DAMN YOU BEN - YOU KNOW WHAT THE SMOKEY SMOG MONSTER IS. Answer Locke's question, don't lie and say "I don't know". Effing poofer.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']I think "confirmed dead" was a reference to the pilot of Oceanic 815 .. which by the way was obviously a fake plane planted at the bottom of the ocean because we know the cockpit of the plane was on the island. It was the tail of the plane that landed in the ocean.

Does anyone know what significance was of Mrs. Gardnener's grandson haunting the room and protecting the money and drugs? Should we know her grandson and/or why he was hiding that stuff and how/why Miles knew about it? We're to believe he can talk to spirits but he knew about the money before the ghost even communicated with him.

Also, does anyone think it's possible that Ben was lying about the spy on the boat ... that perhaps due to an accident or an experiment he became like Jacob and now he's omniscient? He seems to know an awful lot of secrets about everyone.[/quote]

I think it's Ben's business to know secrets - keeps him useful and ALIVE, as evidenced in this episode and many others. I'm guessing he does have a spy on the ship, possibly a Dharma defector he kept in contact with after the Others took over, or maybe an Other plant?

As for Miles knowing, yes that's what we're supposed to believe, but he also did say he checked in with a buddy on the police force, who told him the kid was murdered. The cop could have also told him about the kid's criminal background, i.e. that he was a dealer, and he could have deduced that the kid had a stash hidden there somewhere. But that's just as far out there as him being a genuine ghost whisperer, so might as well go with the default of what the writers are presenting and suggesting we believe - that he is indeed a genuine ghost whisperer.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']Fix your spoiler tag.[/quote]

Dude I know, sorry. It was written correctly, too! When I went to edit it, the second [ spoiler] had the forward slash. It doesn't seem to work half the time.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Speaking about the plane...if you have time, read this theory...it does have its good points and its a good read regardless if its true or not:

Warning: Long read...
Lost” is a grand Gedanken Experiment (German for Thought Experiment), a test of science and philosophy. It asks the question, What if time travel were not only possible, but real, with technology developed in a manner as realistic and consistent with known theoretical physics as possible? And to make it even more dramatic, What if you could travel back in time, and not know it? The passengers of Flight 815 have done exactly that, and the writers have made the audience go along with them, sharing the same sense of confusion and mystery.

Let’s talk about what we know about time travel today. We are not talking about cheesy movies of the past, where one can travel back to the age of dinosaurs or the middle ages. In fact, in the “real” science of time travel, a few things are known by the constraints of physics and quantum mechanics. There is a conceptual model of a real time machine, and it works something like this:
A time machine must have two parts, essentially two portals, connected by a wormhole (or black hole or whatever you want to call it). Door #1 is built alongside Door #2. Door #1 is allowed to continue along the “present” timeline, while Door #2 is encapsulated in a bubble within space-time, thus separated from the present timeline. This would require a great amount of energy and technology obviously unknown today… but thanks to the writers of “Lost,” it has been solved by Dharma Industries. The amount of separation would be only slight to begin with… say, 108 minutes. Since Door #1 exists in the present timeline, it can safely be located anywhere (Dharma headquarters?). Door #2, now operating in a different place in space-time, in the past, must be safely located in a remote location, for any type of interaction with it from the outside could be catastrophic.


Let’s go back to shortly after the turn of the Twentieth century, the days of Einstein and other early theoretical physicists. This was the dawn of the age of quantum mechanics, which provided new understanding and insight into physics at the sub-atomic level. New mathematics described the behavior of the tiny particles that make up all of matter in the universe. The math was clearly described in terms of numbers, symbols, formulas… however the application to nature as we know it was strange, weird, bizarre. It was very difficult to wrap the human brain around many of the concepts of quantum mechanics, and the math alone was inadequate to explain the problems. Thus, physicists and mathematicians turned to “Gedanken Experiments,” German for Thought Experiments. Applying the known concepts of quantum mechanics to situations in the “real world” allowed a conversation to take place in a way most anybody could (sort of) understand.


Before I lose you, here is an example. In the mathematics of quantum physics, time travel is theoretically possible. One of the most famous Gedanken Experiments is the Grandfather Paradox. If you could travel back in time, could you kill your grandfather? Logic tells you that no, you could not, for if you did, you would not exist. (Pause here and consider why Locke insists that “he can’t” kill his father, he needs somebody else to do it… though this is not a direct invocation of the Grandfather paradox.) The beautiful thing about Gedanken Experiments is that they are both scientific and philosophical, perfect fodder for a creative writer. In the case of the Grandfather Paradox, while they logic is clear, the actual experience of it is a mystery. Imagine actually standing there in the past, holding a loaded gun to the head of your grandfather… what would actually prevent you? “Something” would, some unknown mechanism of physics… and that is where the writers of “Lost” imagine for us. (Perhaps the Smokey Monster is the personification of this mysterious force.)


There is a very important concept in time travel here, which is that you can NEVER travel back further in time than the creation of your time machine; Hence the impossibility of visiting the dinosaurs, etc. Now, if the two doors of your time machine were separated by only 108 minutes at the initial “event”, but then allowed to just sit there, then both timelines would progress at the same pace, forever separated by only 108 minutes. Traveling to the past, but only by 108 minutes, would not be very interesting. Much more exciting would be to keep Door #2 back at the original time of its inception, while Door #1 continues to move forward in time. You could do this by continually “resetting” the clock on Door #2. Over time, the separation between the two doors would grow and grow, from minutes, to hours, to days, to years.


If you actually had the technology to achieve time travel in this manner, there are MANY profound questions you would have to test and answer in order to be confident that you could safely operate the time machine without catastrophically altering the future. The Grandfather Paradox is the most obvious, but actually only one of many questions.


answer #1: What is the Dharma Initiative? It is the building and testing of a time machine, as described above. Door #1 is at the Dharma Headquarters, Door #2 is on the Island in the remote South Pacific.
The question isn’t, Where is the Island? The question is, When is the Island? The answer to that depends on how long ago, in the present timeline, the time machine was created… approximately 20 years ago, I believe.


answer #2: Why must the button be pushed every 108 minutes? This “resets” the clock of Door #2 of the time machine, essentially holding it at the time of its inception in the relative past. If allowed to pass 108 minutes on the clock, then the time machine will lose the ability to reset itself. Furthermore, as the clock passes 108 minutes, you will witness and experience the initial event that activated the time machine… in reverse. Thus the activation of the magnet at the center of the machine, the purple sky, etc. Why, then, must it be pressed by a person, and not just programmed to reset itself? This is because the controllers at Door #1 do not have control over Door #2 in the past, and should disaster strike, and nobody is left alive in the past at Door #2, it should be allowed to pass 108 minutes and no longer reset. answer #3: What happened when the clock was allowed to pass 108 minutes? Door #2 of the time machine lost the ability to reset, and will now continue to progress along a timeline into the future, locked at approximately 20 years separation from Door #1.
What are some of the other critical questions, like the Grandfather Paradox, that must be answered when considering time travel? Here is a great one:
What if a childless woman travels back in time and conceives a child? answer #4: a childless woman cannot travel to the past and conceive a child, because if she did, she would not have been a childless woman. In “Lost”, both mother and child die before the birth, thus preserving the timeline and laws of nature. Perhaps the Others do not fully understand this, and brought in fertility doctor Juliet to see if they can overcome this obstacle.


Consider another:
What if a child travels back to a time before he or she was born? Perhaps nothing… but what if the child dies in the past, before being born? Again, impossible. answer #5: The Others abduct children on the Island to protect them at all costs, for they cannot allow the catastrophic violation of the laws of nature of a child dying before being conceived.


And yet another:
If you travel to the past, will you be the “you” of the present timeline when you arrive, or the younger “you” of the past, or some combination of the two? I do not know, but I believe this offers insight into why John Locke can walk on the Island despite being paralyzed. answer #6: Locke can walk not because the Island has powers to cure, but because he has traveled back to a time BEFORE he was ever paralyzed. He is somehow a blend of the Locke of the present and the Locke of the past.


Who is Ben? I believe he is the creator of the time machine. The Others are his associates living in the time-space bubble around the Island and Door #2 of the time machine in the “past.” They are managing it and testing the effects of time travel, and strictly controlling who exits this bubble into the outside world.
How does one arrive at the Island? There are two methods of traveling to the site (and time) of the Island. First is the controlled method via Door #1 at Dharma Headquarters. It is not via plane, submarine, or any other traditional method of transportation.


The other method is in the accidental collision with the time-space bubble that surrounds the Island, as happened with Oceanic Flight 815, the Portuguese woman’s helicopter, etc. Despite the many theories that abound in online forums, the Others did not know that Flight 815 was coming or going to crash at the Island. It was a chance encounter. It was a disaster that created a paradox… what happens to a plane that crashes in the present, while entering the past? This leads to the question of whether the passengers are alive or dead, answered by talking about a cat.


Schrodinger’s cat, to be specific. Again, quantum mechanics can be very strange. One of the strangest behaviors in particle physics is known as Superposition, which is the ability of a particle to occupy two different states simultaneously (like up and down, left and right, here and there, etc.). In the world we know, you cannot be both here and there, but in particle physics, a world of probability, chance, and duality, you can. How can one imagine this? Another great Gedanken Experiment was conceived, as follows:
Place a cat in a sealed, steel box, along with a bottle of poison. In addition, a radioactive element is placed within the steel box. The decay of this radioactive element triggers a hammer, which breaks the bottle, releasing the poison and killing the cat. For the observer, outside of the box, you do not know when this radioactive decay happens. Because of the laws of Superposition, the radioactive element can occupy both states simultaneously, for the briefest moment. For that blink in time, the bottle is both broken and intact… the cat is both dead and alive, at the same time. This is a puzzle of science, but more important perhaps is the philosophical question of what does it mean to be both dead and alive?


answer #7: The passengers of Oceanic Flight 815 are dead at the bottom of the ocean. AND they are ALIVE on the Island. They are both dead and alive. Since they are alive in the “past” of the Island’s timeline, can they return to the present in which they are dead? I guess that is the ultimate question that we will have to watch the show to find out.


A suggestion of an answer is found in Locke’s/Sawyer’s father. We were led to believe that he died in a car accident, and finds himself here on the Island. Of course he would think he’s in hell! We believe that somehow Locke “willed” him here, but that was actually never said on the show. In fact, Ben said to Locke, “you brought him here.” Perhaps what he means is this:
answer #8: Locke’s father did not die in the accident. I believe that we will find soon that Locke is going to leave the Island. The question that nobody asked Locke’s father was when did the accident happen? See, Locke is going to return to the “present” timeline, and is going to pursue his father. He is going to find him, perhaps he is even going to cause his accident. He is going to drug and kidnap him, unable or unwilling to kill him by himself. He is somehow going to get him to Door #1 of the time machine and send him to the Island, where he already knows that Sawyer will kill him. Locke is going to “bring him here” to the Island… he just hasn’t done it yet. When he is on the “outside” in the present, why is he going to do this? Because he has to, because it is destiny… for on the Island, it has already happened. You know Locke loves destiny.
I could go on and on. Why is there a zoo with polar bears? answer #9: The animals are on the Island for testing the effects of the various paradoxes associated with time travel. Perhaps another reason is that by keeping and preserving endangered animals, like polar bears, within this bubble in the past, there is a resource for their recovery should they become extinct in the future. Consider it a Noah’s Ark.


How do the Others know so much about the passengers of Flight 815? answer #10: The Others have had perhaps years, with Dharma Industries in the present timeline at Door #1, to research each of the individuals, and transmit this information to the Island. To the audience and the survivors of 815, it seemed like the Others instantly knew about them. However, it likely required years of research to compile the files.


There are still mysteries that remain, and stories that we do not know how they will play out. With this explanation, though, the behavior of the Others is understood. They must protect the timeline at all costs. That makes them seem evil to the survivors of 815, but in reality their intentions are to prevent catastrophe.


There are many other stories I haven’t touched, but they are all consistent with this basic theory. This includes Desmond’s apparent “time loop” he is experiencing, and many others.
So there it is. Or, I’m out of my mind. Time will tell.
Steve
http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/may/07/great-gedanken-experiment-tale/[/quote]

Wow. That's an incredible theory and if it isnt correct it should be. :applause:
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']well, i guess the obvious question...
why are they after ben? im sticking with my theory that the people on the freighter are dharma (or at least a dharma supported group). i figure theyd have a bone to pick with ben.

also, when the hell are they going to meet back up with the others, theyve been hanging out at the temple with the immortal metro guy richard for the last year.
[/QUOTE]


I say the person on the boat is michael. the person ben was talking about. remember they said he returns this season.

sad thing is i read on another site we might not find out this year about the others. they said that was like eps. 7 or 9 meaning it hasnt even been shot yet. the first half of the season deals with the people on the copter.


if this season is only 8 long its going to piss alot of people off
 
This is really weird and at the same time awesome...

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkxM9FkO3ys&feature=related[/MEDIA]

We need more Promo's like these
 
[quote name='joe2187']This is really weird and at the same time awesome...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkxM9FkO3ys&feature=related

We need more Promo's like these[/quote]

Wow...that was odd...yet brilliant...wonder if the fact that Locke and Walt are the conductors has anything to do with what's goin on in the story...also the way Hurley is just walking around like WTF! makes it seem like he's dreaming...like back in the clinic. Which is a theory that I've always had in my mind...Is this all in Hurleys head...I keep saying no because that would be a dumb ass ending.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Wow...that was odd...yet brilliant...wonder if the fact that Locke and Walt are the conductors has anything to do with what's goin on in the story...also the way Hurley is just walking around like WTF! makes it seem like he's dreaming...like back in the clinic. Which is a theory that I've always had in my mind...Is this all in Hurleys head...I keep saying no because that would be a dumb ass ending.[/quote]

You'll notice Micheal is walking in the same manner, albeit backwards and kinda zombie'ish way. and anyways it was just a promo for season one they played on the air on the UK channels, This promo was also directed by David Lachapelle. its nothing significant to the plot as far as i can tell. unless you count the Triangle dance Sawyer Kate and Jack play.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Speaking about the plane...if you have time, read this theory...it does have its good points and its a good read regardless if its true or not:

http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/may/07/great-gedanken-experiment-tale/[/QUOTE]

Yes, dude ... yes. I refrain from talking about the show with almost everyone (except when lured into threads by intriguing thread titles) and that's almost exactly what seems to have occurred to a number of people after the Desmond episodes.

I'll add this:
The key is Desmond's photograph of him and Penny. He has one with him on the island. She has one on her nightstand. It's a polaroid -- there can't be multiple copies. When Desmond "went back," he changed the past (look at the scene where he decides not to walk into the military recruiter's office). But there's a many worlds interpretation at play here, so there isn't ONE future now, there are TWO. Figuring out whether the characters are all interacting with the same future/reality? That'll bake your noodle, boy. And after last night's archeological excavation of a dharma polar bear in Algeria? Yeah, it works.
 
[quote name='trq']Yes, dude ... yes. I refrain from talking about the show with almost everyone (except when lured into threads by intriguing thread titles) and that's almost exactly what seems to have occurred to a number of people after the Desmond episodes.

I'll add this:
The key is Desmond's photograph of him and Penny. He has one with him on the island. She has one on her nightstand. It's a polaroid -- there can't be multiple copies. When Desmond "went back," he changed the past (look at the scene where he decides not to walk into the military recruiter's office). But there's a many worlds interpretation at play here, so there isn't ONE future now, there are TWO. Figuring out whether the characters are all interacting with the same future/reality? That'll bake your noodle, boy. And after last night's archeological excavation of a dharma polar bear in Algeria? Yeah, it works.
[/quote]

Good catch on that Desmond thing...wish I had the previous season on DVD so I could check that out.
 
That whole episode with Desmond and the old lady knowing what was gonna happen before it happened was a mind fuck. And I really think it does help the time theory.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Good catch on that Desmond thing...wish I had the previous season on DVD so I could check that out.[/quote]

I think the ABC site is streaming all the episodes now.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']I think the ABC site is streaming all the episodes now.[/quote]

I'll check it out later tonight when I'm home...thanks.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']That whole episode with Desmond and the old lady knowing what was gonna happen before it happened was a mind fuck. And I really think it does help the time theory.[/quote]

Funny, I missed it the first viewing, but that old lady is the wife of the monk who takes Desmond in before he meets Penny. Her picture is on his desk, facing away from Desmond when he's in the office.
 
I don't think Ben is omniscient. I think Ben's "secrets" suffered when
the Russian dude died, because he was the intel guy. So now Ben's only advantage is the spy on the boat who is going to be up shit creek when Charlotte gets word to them somehow and starts a mole hunt.
 
i was so excited for this season and now i'm so disappointed that they think they won't be able to shoot the remaining 8 episodes after the writer's strike is over :( i hope they do 24 episodes next season instead of doing 8 episodes over the summer or some shit.
 
[quote name='Chika']i was so excited for this season and now i'm so disappointed that they think they won't be able to shoot the remaining 8 episodes after the writer's strike is over :( i hope they do 24 episodes next season instead of doing 8 episodes over the summer or some shit.[/quote]

Perhaps not so!

http://tvoholic.com/news/more-episodes-for-lost-season-4/(link from Wiki)
Lost is expected to go back into production as soon as possible, with the goal to shoot 4 to 6 episodes of the remaining 8 originally planned, said Lost very own Matthew Fox recently.
Of course the article is total speculation (internet bull shit), but TVguide also says "Six additional episodes could air this season."
 
when Ben talks about how he "has a main on that boat"

is anyone with me thinking that man might be Michael?

I don't know how to use spoiler tags, can someone help me out?
 
[quote name='Drnick']when Ben talks about how he "has a main on that boat"

is anyone with me thinking that man might be Michael?

I don't know how to use spoiler tags, can someone help me out?[/QUOTE]


well, word on the street is michael is coming back this season. but that seems like a flawed theory because the people on the boat are well aware of who was on the plane. so i suppose if he has a new identity it could be. but knowing how lost goes, it could very well be him.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']What I dont get is how these people are on a boat and they dont realize a stranger has suddenly appeared?[/quote]

What makes you think Ben doesnt have contacts off the island? it was shown during Juliets flashback that Mikhal and ben have some form of contact with the outside world if they showed live footage of juliets sister (before locke got an Itchy finger and blew up the communication station)
 
[quote name='joe2187']What makes you think Ben doesnt have contacts off the island? it was shown during Juliets flashback that Mikhal and ben have some form of contact with the outside world if they showed live footage of juliets sister (before locke got an Itchy finger and blew up the communication station)[/QUOTE]

yeah i mean its not like the guy just walked on to the boat. if he has a spy on there then he would have had to been working on infiltration for awhile.
 
Harold Perrineau was at last year's Comic Con Lost panel and confirmed that he is indeed returning to the show this season. (You can hear this on the OFFICIAL Lost podcast, the 8/2 episode, I believe.) His name has been in the opening credits of the first two episodes, so I expect to see him sooner than later. Although with Walt's getting "taller", I think it might be only in flashforwards.

It'll be interesting to see how the, heh, 'lost' three episodes for this season are dealt with. Do we get more next year? Or will they be compressed into the five additional ones this year? I got the impression the story was going to be much leaner with each season being whittled down from 24 to 16 to begin with, as well as the finish line being in sight.

Concerning the contents of a certain container seen last year,
has it occurred to anyone else that it might be one of the four introduced last week? Clearly, those calling hours happen well after the "Oceanic Six" are rescued, so even Dan Faraday could be alone by that point. It just seems like something the writers would do, that is, effing with our assumptions that it's someone we've already seen.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']

It'll be interesting to see how the, heh, 'lost' three episodes for this season are dealt with. Do we get more next year? Or will they be compressed into the five additional ones this year? I got the impression the story was going to be much leaner with each season being whittled down from 24 to 16 to begin with, as well as the finish line being in sight.
[/QUOTE]


as noted about the executive producer said that the 3 episodes will be added onto season 5, 6, or divided between the 2, there will still be 35 episodes after this season.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']Harold Perrineau was at last year's Comic Con Lost panel and confirmed that he is indeed returning to the show this season. (You can hear this on the OFFICIAL Lost podcast, the 8/2 episode, I believe.) His name has been in the opening credits of the first two episodes, so I expect to see him sooner than later. Although with Walt's getting "taller", I think it might be only in flashforwards.

It'll be interesting to see how the, heh, 'lost' three episodes for this season are dealt with. Do we get more next year? Or will they be compressed into the five additional ones this year? I got the impression the story was going to be much leaner with each season being whittled down from 24 to 16 to begin with, as well as the finish line being in sight.

Concerning the contents of a certain container seen last year,
has it occurred to anyone else that it might be one of the four introduced last week? Clearly, those calling hours happen well after the "Oceanic Six" are rescued, so even Dan Faraday could be alone by that point. It just seems like something the writers would do, that is, effing with our assumptions that it's someone we've already seen.
[/quote]

What contents and what container? Sorry I must be cracked out, don't know what you're referring to. You mean the coffin/memorial Jack attended?
 
Yeah, I was just tiptoeing around it for any dimwits who wandered this far into a "Season Four" thread without having seen Season Three's finale. Call me hyperparanoid (and you'd be more or less correct), but I've seen it happen before.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']Not trying to dispute or bicker, but an article over at AICN (that I read after posting here, of course), seems to suggest otherwise. Believe me, I hope we get 'em all.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/35574[/QUOTE]


heres the interview with cuse they are speaking of...

http://community.tvguide.com/blog-e...siello-Report/Exclusive-Ilosti-Boss/800033076


[quote name='Carlton Cuse']What will happen to the three "lost" episodes? Will they roll over into next season's 16, or will they vanish forever?
Cuse: Damon and I remain committed to producing the 40 additional hours of the show that we promised. We haven't figured out exactly when we'll put those other three on, but we're not eliminating them from the show. You will get those three episodes downstream.[/QUOTE]
 
I say that black kid who was the drug dealer will be tied in with an ECHO story line .. Remember echo was moving the drugs so maybe that was hes cousin.


I still say the man on the boat is micheal or that Russian dude (still say that russian isnt dead)



some question i dont think they answer yet



what was up with the two people they found in the waterfall caves
What was up with the white and black stone in their pockets
Why did they kidnapp the children
What ever happen to all of the people they grabbed from the tail
That one women said they were there to watch (why and watch what ? im guessing punisment
What were they building on the other island.
What is this so called ROOM they put walt in
Why did the helicopter crash if the hatch with the magnet is no longer there.
Why do they use boats to move between islands when the hatch connects the islands together
the big broken foot on the beach
That french lady said her team came down with A SICKNESS nothing ever became of that

WHAT is up with those LOTTO Numbers


Where did the other monster go? In the first show you see the one flying though the air attacking the plane. while the black smoke monster just seems to roam on the groound.


if those two people nikki and palbo? already went into that one hatch who drew a BIG QUESTION MARK On the ground

Anyone notice how fearful the french lady was of the flight crew but acts like its no big deal when the other 4 lands .


Lock said he was going back to the bunkers ? Didnt they turn on the gate so how are they getting around the gate

Time wrap - could tell why the map in the hatch when it went into lockdown it said Dragons here maybe that part takes you back in time


Any other questions they havent answer yet ? There are probally a lot more but cant think of them off hand


big cliffhangers from each season

Season 1..... What was in the hatch and who was the others on the boat
Season 2 did anyone live when the hatch imploded and the others?
season 3 Who is on the boat and where were the others going

Right?
 
the big broken foot on the beach

There is a metric Shaq-Fu-ton of unanswered questions and mysteries on the show (and mounting!), but the four-toed statue is supposedly going to be addressed this season. I'm sure many others have already done it, but I'm almost compelled to go back and chronicle every question raised, how critical it is, and if it's been answered. (And believe it or not, many have. We just tend to selectively overlook them because they're no longer of major intrigue. Also, it takes an answered question to lead to ten more on this show!)

The big one that's starting to bug me is when they're going to get back to the utmost importance of Aaron's fate. Why is it that I sense he's going to have a sort of "John Connor" role in Season Six...if you know what I'm sayin'-sayin'.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']the big broken foot on the beach

There is a metric Shaq-Fu-ton of unanswered questions and mysteries on the show (and mounting!), but the four-toed statue is supposedly going to be addressed this season. I'm sure many others have already done it, but I'm almost compelled to go back and chronicle every question raised, how critical it is, and if it's been answered. (And believe it or not, many have. We just tend to selectively overlook them because they're no longer of major intrigue. Also, it takes an answered question to lead to ten more on this show!)

The big one that's starting to bug me is when they're going to get back to the utmost importance of Aaron's fate. Why is it that I sense he's going to have a sort of "John Connor" role in Season Six...if you know what I'm sayin'-sayin'.[/QUOTE]

and that is why many people are turning away from this show. Why push out 100 more questions when they never answered the 100's of questions from the first 3 seasons.


season 1 you only had 1 storyline to worry about
now
season 4 there is probally what 3... jacks party, lockes party and the others

it will be interesting to see how many people and advertisers come back after this #$#$# up this season with the internet only eps.
 
[quote name='slidecage']and that is why many people are turning away from this show. Why push out 100 more questions when they never answered the 100's of questions from the first 3 seasons.


season 1 you only had 1 storyline to worry about
now
season 4 there is probally what 3... jacks party, lockes party and the others

it will be interesting to see how many people and advertisers come back after this #$#$# up this season with the internet only eps.[/quote]

:roll:...this show had the best finale of any show last season and was basically one of the most anticipated shows this year...how exactly are people turning away from it?...sure i can understand the beginning of last year was weak but they more then redeemed themselves with the later half of the season
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Good catch on that Desmond thing...wish I had the previous season on DVD so I could check that out.[/quote]

[quote name='Maklershed']That whole episode with Desmond and the old lady knowing what was gonna happen before it happened was a mind fuck. And I really think it does help the time theory.[/quote]

[quote name='crunchb3rry']Funny, I missed it the first viewing, but that old lady is the wife of the monk who takes Desmond in before he meets Penny. Her picture is on his desk, facing away from Desmond when he's in the office.[/quote]

not only is the old lady the same, if you watch cafefully, a bunch of people (including the old lady and the monk) all weat the same symbol. she wears it as a broach, if i recall properly. i think they're all members of the Dharma initiative and related through Dharma to the people on the boat.

also, to add with the questions, if the majority of people who die on the island don't "stay dead", what about nikki and paulo, ana lucia, et al?
 
[quote name='Chika']

also, to add with the questions, if the majority of people who die on the island don't "stay dead", what about nikki and paulo, ana lucia, et al?[/quote]

Well Ana Lucia is dead (Michelle Rodriguez i will miss you so goddamn much) she was killed and "Burr-Eeed" and only appeared in dream sequences and flasbacks

as for Nikki and Paulo?...Sucks to be them
 
Of all the people that could completely come back from the dead, the one I'd pick is...

Ethan.jpg


Imagine one of the survivors turning around to see that stare as the last shot and 'reveal' of an episode. He always seemed so superhuman/inhuman. (Too bad it couldn't be the most fitting 815 passenger anymore.) "Other Man" is an anagram for Ethan Rom, but so is "More Than". Just sayin'.

P.S. And I'm okay with the piling mysteries, but only if a strong majority of them are answered by the end of the show. Sure, we know what The Numbers were extracted from, but we don't know why a.) they were being broadcast on a loop or b.) why they have such an eerily inescapable quality for those on the island (particularly Hurley, of course).

P.P.S. I rewatched last week's episode, and it occurred to me that
in the old photo, Ben reminded me very much of Dr. Smith from Lost in Space. I just found that amusing and somewhat fitting. "Oh, Locke, the pain! The paaaiiinnn!!"
 
Episode 4.03: The Economist (Sayid-centric)
Airdate: February 14, 2008
  • new.gif
    02/12 - A secret room that may reveal a thing or two about Ben Linus. An understated piece of jewelry that is bound to reappear. An off island alliance that is going to stun and shock you. Source: DocArzt's Lost Blog
  • new.gif
    02/12 - The previews promised another Oceanic Six reveal next week, but we will also learn about another major main character who's out in the world in the future, who doesn't fall under that banner. Source: Kristin on E!Online
  • 02/06 - In the Island's big game of capture the flag, Kate gets tagged out by the other team and sent to "jail." Lucky for her, she's in good with the jailer... Source: Kristin on E!Online
  • 02/03 - Naveen Andrews reveals: By the time you get to Episode 3, the [group's] split is kind of clearly defined. Source: TV Guide Online
  • 01/28 - Locke's hostage may be the key to getting off the island, so Sayid and Kate go in search of their fellow castaway in an attempt to negotiate a peaceful deal. Guest starring are Ken Leung as Miles, Jeremy Davies as Daniel Faraday, Rebecca Mader as Charlotte, Jeff Fahey as Frank Lapidus, Mira Furlan as Danielle Rousseau, Marsha Thomason as Naomi, Armando Pucci as Italian man and Thekla Reuten as Elsa. Source: ABC
  • 01/02 - [Episode 3] features a great ending and shooting and episode. Source: Lost Spoilers
  • 10/29 - Carlos, a journalist, reveals: The 1st page of what I read was the production sheet, call sheet or something named like that - I can't remember precisely the right term. In this page, you can find the episode's number and name - in this case, #403 - The Economist, but of course it can be a provisory title. [...] That's where I also got Ken Leugn's character name (Miles) and the information confirming that Jeremy Davies will play Faraday, and Rebecca Mader, Charlotte. That's where I also got the name Elsa, Sayid's girlfriend in his flashforward... The next pages were scripts for episode's scenes. And that's the most important information I could find there: "The Economist" will have Sayid as a main character, and will show his after-island life. We'll be in Germany, and his girlfriend is called Elsa. [...] She seemed very intrigued about Sayid's kinda secret job. He refuses to talk about it, even to her... On the island, there will be a scene in which some losties will go to "Othersville" and will notice some noises. Kate (not Juliet!) will realize that the noise is coming from a house - pointed in the script as Juliet's house, and she'll go and check it. Then, she notices that the sound is coming from the closet; and finally finds Hurley stuck inside. Locke and Sayid are disagreeing about the best way to discover more about the "new visitors": while Sayid wants to go to the ship with Charlotte and appears that she'll get a boat to get back to their HQ, Locke prefers to trust in Ben, who said that he's got a spy on the boat. [...] Freckles will want to go to somewhere - not mentioned on the excerpt I read - but Sawyer, even not wanting her to go, won't stop her; but will also show her his disappointment... Source: Lost Spoilers
  • 09/26 - It appears that episode 2 or 3 is going to be Sayid centric: I was in downtown Honolulu today (Saturday 9/22) and they were filming Lost. It was suppose to be in Germany. They had snow (shaved ice) all over the road. Some of the security said it was a Jack scene. It was not, it was Sayid. There was no dialog I could hear, just Naveen crossing the street several times. Source: Hawaii Lost Yahoo Group
  • 09/11 - Dante: 40s, Italian businessman, knows the fun of a little competition, affable, friendly but with a secret. Must have an authentic Italian accent / speak some Italian. Source: Lost Spoilers
 
Quoting something about tonight's episode from DJSteel's post
"we will also learn about another major main character who's out in the world in the future, who doesn't fall under that banner"

Interesting. That's gotta be Ben or Juliet right?
 
Or someone from the Helicopter/Boat
Actually, anyone who wasn't on on Flight 815 is possible. Others, Helicopter, boat, maybe another boat, Polar Bear...
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']Of all the people that could completely come back from the dead, the one I'd pick is...

Ethan.jpg


Imagine one of the survivors turning around to see that stare as the last shot and 'reveal' of an episode. He always seemed so superhuman/inhuman. (Too bad it couldn't be the most fitting 815 passenger anymore.) "Other Man" is an anagram for Ethan Rom, but so is "More Than". Just sayin'.

P.S. And I'm okay with the piling mysteries, but only if a strong majority of them are answered by the end of the show. Sure, we know what The Numbers were extracted from, but we don't know why a.) they were being broadcast on a loop or b.) why they have such an eerily inescapable quality for those on the island (particularly Hurley, of course).

P.P.S. I rewatched last week's episode, and it occurred to me that
in the old photo, Ben reminded me very much of Dr. Smith from Lost in Space. I just found that amusing and somewhat fitting. "Oh, Locke, the pain! The paaaiiinnn!!"
[/quote]


you know that is Tom Cruise's Cousin right
 
[quote name='SpottedNigel']Or someone from the Helicopter/Boat
Actually, anyone who wasn't on on Flight 815 is possible. Others, Helicopter, boat, maybe another boat, Polar Bear...[/QUOTE]

man i hope its a polar bear : )
 
Sooo confused...

Was I seeing things or did Sayid have the bracelet on the island? Was it something that the girl he loved back in Iraq gave to him, or is there some kind of time travel element going on?

The whole 36 minute difference on the payload timer could lead to some kind of time travel plot, but i dont think a bracelet would just appear on him and he knows everything about it, especially if he got it while on a headhunting job for Ben; after he was rescued from the island that he is currently on.
 
[quote name='Bezerker']Sooo confused...

Was I seeing things or did Sayid have the bracelet on the island? Was it something that the girl he loved back in Iraq gave to him, or is there some kind of time travel element going on?

The whole 36 minute difference on the payload timer could lead to some kind of time travel plot, but i dont think a bracelet would just appear on him and he knows everything about it, especially if he got it while on a headhunting job for Ben; after he was rescued from the island that he is currently on.
[/quote]
Naomi had a bracelet on that looked similar to the one Sayid's "lover" was wearing and Sayid took it off of her when he went and closed Naomi's eyes and that's why it looked like he had that same bracelet on the island.
 
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